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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Spencer said:
I think that's something of an overstatement.

The meter loss isn't significant (or doesn't have to be), and negative with super armor is hardly the same as negative without it.
What?

She's purposely designed to be so negative that you can throw her out of most of her move recovery times. Armor has nothing to do with it.
 
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I don't want to see Sekhmet being used only as a combo extender and even riskier crossups. She puts some pressure but she's already a big gamble.
I'd like to experiment on s.H being easier to react because you're kind of supposed to get a throw after that. But then again, if it's too easy, no one will want to get to that point.
 
RemiKz said:
Honestly, I'm not super content with how sekhmet works atm. The only real application it has is for converting into combos and a few resets. Sekhmet is almost always a complete waste to try to use in neutral (and block) due to having no actual mixup other than L > H on the ground and everything being unsafe. You can avoid pretty much any threat sekhmet can muster by just being in the air and letting it waste meter as it is forced to get back to Eliza.

Maybe allow her to do an actual mixup of some sort by giving her a low outside of only being a chain starter? Like maybe have c.HP/HK be a low with the same animation as her s.LP/LK, but maybe a tiny bit slower and act like val's bypass in the sense that it passes through them if it connects and stops in front of them if it doesn't, and maybe sort of hit upward like the axe. In exchange, make this attack and j.MP and s.HP be significantly more punishable on block. This way its more of an actual gamble to try to use instead of "hold back if sekhmet was used on you on block and wait for free punish/ hold upback every other time"

This would obviously be a net buff since axe is already punishable on block and it gives her more options, but I do feel like sekhmet is lacking a little something.

Overall most people will probably disagree with this since hating Eliza is the new trend and she honestly doesn't need it, but Val didn't need half the stuff she got and I feel like this would make her a little more complete.

Just realized I accidentally editted my last post instead of posting this new one lol.
 
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Ryin said:
I don't want to see Sekhmet being used only as a combo extender and even riskier crossups. She puts some pressure but she's already a big gamble.
I'd like to experiment on s.H being easier to react because you're kind of supposed to get a throw after that. But then again, if it's too easy, no one will want to get to that point.
......ok guy not even gonna try anymore. i said my thoughts on sekhmet.
 
Please try. I'd like to see the other side better explained.
 
Well let me explain... with super armor you have very few options... the best of which is of course a throw. But throw only works point blank (there are ranges in which all 3 of Sek's grounded moves hit but can't be thrown). Add to that, lp and mp are mostly safe since they chain. If you are trying to throw lp or mp and hp comes out... you lose.

It beats virtually every jump-in or approach outside of throw if you've decent yomi. Should it really be a move that you can spend 3 bars in just chilling at neutral? Absolutely not since it is literally weak to only throws and waiting it out. Is it good, yeah I think it is.

Just curious, who wins when you trade with Sek?
 
I don't know about everyone else, but after Sekhmet tries her shit... I just jump and air throw. Worst case scenario, Sekhmet player jumps and techs the throw, getting rid of Sekhmet. Or throw whiffs, but you're out of her shit. Or throw hits and you are happy.
 
Spencer said:
It beats virtually every jump-in or approach outside of throw if you've decent yomi. Should it really be a move that you can spend 3 bars in just chilling at neutral? Absolutely not since it is literally weak to only throws and waiting it out. Is it good, yeah I think it is.

Just curious, who wins when you trade with Sek?

You will NEVER hit anyone with sekhmet in neutral. It's futile and a waste of meter. (well you might be hitting people with it now, but that's largely due to matchup unfamiliarity)

Like I said before, Sekhmet on its own is garbage. No mixup and just used for conversions, resets and the occasional punishes. You can try throwing out a 214HP out as a mixup to try to open someone up, but if you fail then you are screwed.
 
Whenever I play Eliza and use Sekhmet, I just do something backed by Cerecopter. Assist, axe/low, conversion if available, if not jump back, call assist when ready, either do it again or go back to Eliza.
 
RemiKz said:
no

guitalex2007 said:
I don't know about everyone else, but after Sekhmet tries her shit... I just jump and air throw. Worst case scenario, Sekhmet player jumps and techs the throw, getting rid of Sekhmet. Or throw whiffs, but you're out of her shit. Or throw hits and you are happy.

I've tried this. I got hit low into axe lmao. So idk. I'm still learning the match up, and it feels worse than fighting prepatch Fukua.

I'm not fond of how small the window is to punish ground axe. Not fond of how small the window is to punish her when sek runs back to eliza. It also sucks having to block eliza from like half the screen away high because she does j.mk or iad j.mk, which leads to a 50/50 because it has a ridiculous amount of blockstun, and can also be confirmed into sek on reaction.

I mean its a little better now in retail because the hitstun on that move was reduced a bit but for how active it is and how far it goes idk. Its like Filia if she had good neutral.
 
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dekillsage said:
I've tried this. I got hit low into axe lmao. So idk. I'm still learning the match up, and it feels worse than fighting prepatch Fukua.

I'm not fond of how small the window is to punish ground axe. Not fond of how small the window is to punish her when sek runs back to eliza. It also sucks having to block eliza from like half the screen away high because she does j.mk or iad j.mk, which leads to a 50/50 because it has a ridiculous amount of blockstun, and can also be confirmed into sek on reaction.

I mean its a little better now in retail because the hitstun on that move was reduced a bit but for how active it is and how far it goes idk. Its like Filia if she had good neutral.
How are you getting hit low? As soon as you see Sekhmet on screen, it can't really frametrap you into getting hit with the low. For that situation to come up, it would mean that sekhmet had already been on screen for a bit, which means you could have been jumping earlier to avoid anything it does and just have it waste meter. If they throw sekhmet at you on block, you really just have to block high because the only time it can use a low is if it was sent out in neutral and used it as the beginning of a chain.

I'm ok with sekhmet being more punishable on block, if it actually had any sort of mixup it could actually do once its out.

Having j.MK not stay out as long wouldn't be an unwarranted nerf actually.
 
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Sek does air axe. I block it and don't try to punish it because she can choose to do a ground axe and hit me. She doesn't ground axe, I try to jump, she does low -> overhead. Or I pushblock, and she walks and does low -> overhead again and catches me out of my upback or out of me still holding back.

If she does air axe, you have to wait. You can try to punish, but risking taking like an immediate 4k isn't worth the risk, especially since Eliza can combo off it afterwards. The only exceptions are people like Bella who can 360 and Fukua with a level 3. Pushblocking her means she goes back to Eliza for free, and the window to punish her when she goes back to eliza is so small you have to be right next to her and you have to wait and make sure you don't cross up when they combine.
 
You're forgetting something: pushblock means you won. They spent meter and got nothing for it. Who cares if they went back to Eliza? You're not in a Sekhmet mixup anymore.

Pushblock the j.m. Did they not do the following h? Then they're not in range. Did they do it? Pbgc jump or throw.
 
guitalex2007 said:
You're forgetting something: pushblock means you won. They spent meter and got nothing for it. Who cares if they went back to Eliza? You're not in a Sekhmet mixup anymore.

Did I actually win? No I didn't. She got back to neutral, in a situation where it was either take a throw punish, get like 4k instantly+ a combo, or return to neutral where you can go back to doing either your IAD pressure or moving away and calling your servants to control space for a bit.
 
dekillsage said:
Its like Filia if she had good neutral.

I think this is the best summary of it.

dekillsage said:
Did I actually win? No I didn't. She got back to neutral

This exactly. She got back to neutral... and she has a boss neutral.
 
dekillsage said:
Did I actually win? No I didn't. She got back to neutral, in a situation where it was either take a throw punish, get like 4k instantly+ a combo, or return to neutral where you can go back to doing either your IAD pressure or moving away and calling your servants to control space for a bit.
That's why you're losing to Eliza. Let Sekhmet go.

Don't try to punish Sekhmet then complain when she can stagger her normals. Just let them lose meter and call it a day.

I mean, complaining about a neutral that is shut down by pushblocking the first normal AND costs them meter sounds a bit much.
 
Yeah, using Sekhmet in neutral is just meter suicide. Pushblock c.L, j.M or s.H and just ride it out.
They're going to realize "well, this isn't doing shit, why am I doing this" and after they evaluate their life choices they'll be in the hole in meter.

They spent half a meter trying to double overhead you. Feel sorry for them.

edit: I know, I know, you want to hit Sekhmet. Nothing more satisfying than grabbing that asshole. The problem is that doing so will more than not get you killed, so why not avoid it altogether, gain the meter advantage and just let it go?
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
sooooooo what's eliza's weakness again? i'm absolutely fucking curious now.
Throws.

edit: I suppose I need more than one word.

She has to properly predict throws since she has no throw invulnerable reversals. As a result, the low mixup is extremely good on her too because she's trying to react to the easy throws by attempting a tech or jumping. There.
 
Edited with actual explanation lol
 
Dreamepitaph said:
so we're back to a fukua like weakness with tons more options and mixups and with parasoul range normals? Interesting thank you very much @guitalex2007
Fukua has BFF though. So it's a worse Fukua weakness in that regard.

Also Fukua can j.HK a throw lol CH HK combos are fun.
 
guitalex2007 said:
Fukua has BFF though. So it's a worse Fukua weakness in that regard.

Also Fukua can j.HK a throw lol CH HK combos are fun.
yeah worse............. yeah.......um thanks? i'll give the matchup more thought but right now my stand on eliza since day 1 was as i predicted.

Edit: the fact you put in BFF is just not helping your explanation and only frustrates me in the matchup so again thanks on that.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
yeah worse............. yeah.......um thanks? i'll give the matchup more thought but right now my stand on eliza since day 1 was as i predicted.

Edit: the fact you put in BFF is just not helping your explanation and only frustrates me in the matchup so again thanks on that.
Oh, I'm not saying BFF is good in the matchup! I'm saying that Eliza is weaker to throws than Fukua because Fukua has more tools like instant j.HK counterhits, command throw (although it's slower now) and BFF.

Eliza's reversal options are dp (throw vulnerable), Lady of Slaughter (not invincible for a chunk of the startup), air super and level 3 (requires 3 meter). Horace/Albus don't come out fast enough if the reset is tight.
 
guitalex2007 said:
Oh, I'm not saying BFF is good in the matchup! I'm saying that Eliza is weaker to throws than Fukua because Fukua has more tools like instant j.HK counterhits, command throw (although it's slower now) and BFF.
but bff and cmd grab is just not gonna cut it. cmd grab gets beaten by normal grab. Bff if you meaty grab you're still all good.

we need more eliza players to actually play her. we as a whole don't understand the matchup. but i currently feel frustrated. like really frustrated about what to even do with this character. if you could somehow dissect this character it would really be helpful to actually discuss about eliza. cause then you got idiots like ryuin saying "i want sekhmet to be more than some combo extender" meanwhile I(an idiot) am frustrated by the mere tools she possess and her options on hit that goes into 3 way mixups ALONG with s.mp being ambigious on incoming and then choosing even more reset points from there? WE NEED HELP!
 
overhead axe being like -9 is annoying yeah

and also at longer ranges throws just whiff
 
At EVO, everyone saw my Eliza and wet their pants.

Then I went on stream to get reset low three times and killed by @Hirokuni

Why? Because I guessed the throw wrong three times trying to protect myself lol
 
If anything, just lower the blockstun on the axe, even at 2 frames @ashxu punishes me most of the time when I do a stupidly spaced axe. If it was a 3 - 5 frame punish, would people still complain about the move?

As it is, if you are really really scared, you could snap.... it will punish anything sekhmet tries to do unless your character has a reallllly bad snap, but the meter obviously.

Honestly, Sekhmet costs meter and has no mixup without assist calls against people who know what's up, so just blocking her is a WIN for you, Eliza is bleeding meter hard to keep Sekhmet out. I'm not at all against a few less frames of blockstun on axe, but I'd like a low option on heavies or mediums though, maybe medium because air axe > high/low would be a bit dumb.
 
Every time I get hit by Sehkmet it's never a "Woah I got mixed up/frame trapped!" it's a "Oh I'm not even paying attention why did I hit a button there."

I'm only ok with Sek being /somewhat/ hard to grab after a blockstring because she's not really a huge threat in neutral. If her moves are made more negative, I think she needs better ways to pressure or mixup someone. Even watching SonicFox play on Sage's stream, I think Sek is only really good for combos and hard call outs for an opponent pressing a button at a bad space.
 
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Look, if you want a 5f punish on Sekhmet, pick Fukua or Bella. Shit, Bella gets a 7f punish on Sekhmet if she has meter. It's not like the punish isn't an option for the entire cast; it's just easier with certain characters, which is part of what playing fighters is about.
 
Looks like some people dont know how to play or defend against eliza correctly hmph hmph hmph hmph.


also






sekmet is good. I have yet to see anybody use it correctly. @dekillsage has only seen one used properly Kappa
 
guitalex2007 said:
That's why you're losing to Eliza. Let Sekhmet go.

Don't try to punish Sekhmet then complain when she can stagger her normals. Just let them lose meter and call it a day.

I mean, complaining about a neutral that is shut down by pushblocking the first normal AND costs them meter sounds a bit much.
Double post:
I disagree. If you control the neutral correctly, sekmet and eliza can destroy everyone and literally only needs 1 combo.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
sooooooo what's eliza's weakness again? i'm absolutely fucking curious now.

  • Very bad reversals, only reliable one is level 3 and if that whiffs gg
  • Literally dies under pressure especially from a 45 degree angle
  • A lot of mixup blockstrings have big holes in them (albus, horus and chair), you have to use l. osiris or m. osiris for a safe one
  • Once you understand how to deal with sekmet, she isnt threatening (in neutral, all you need to deal with is low and high)
  • Eliza really needs meter to be damaging
 
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yea i do get pretty annoyed when i try and punish H axe with a throw and the opp just jumps and does another one and then i get hit for like a ton of damage. i will try a jumping grab next time and see how that goes.
 
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