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Beast's Fury Kickstarter is Live!

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I'll share some thoughts, but first I want to ask you about that Kickstarter situation.
Evil-Dog said:
That's because this is a new kickstarter policy, they're cracking down on thiefs and scammers who don't complete their projects after getting all the money
I'm really surprised I haven't heard about this policy change until now. A number of projects I've backed are also experiencing delays, but the devs don't seem to be sweating about it as far as Kickstarter's end is concerned. Here's what I pulled up from the KS policy page:
source - (https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use)

When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

-they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;

-they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;

-they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;

-they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and

-they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

----later sections mention----

->The Estimated Delivery Date is the creator’s estimate. The date listed on each reward is the creator’s estimate of when they will provide the reward — not a guarantee to fulfill by that date. The schedule may change as the creator works on the project. We ask creators to think carefully, set a date they feel confident they can work toward, and communicate with backers about any changes.

->Kickstarter isn’t liable for any damages or losses related to your use of the Services. We don’t become involved in disputes between users, or between users and any third party relating to the use of the Services. We don’t oversee the performance or punctuality of projects, and we don’t endorse any content users submit to the Site.
Is this the material that was recently changed? I can't remember their old terms, but this still sounds a bit more lenient than the situation you described. I don't doubt that Kickstarter really did put pressure on you guys to release the demo, but given how poorly optimized the game is right now, you should probably put a cap on your demo releases until it's further along. It looks like as long as you guys continue to document progress for your Backers, Kickstarter shouldn't have too many more issues with you. If I was a Backer, I know I'd prefer waiting for something a bit more polished.

I mean, I do think it's good that you guys have shared a public demo at this point, but I'd argue this release was really more for the sake of your IGG Backers. With how long they've been left waiting, I really hope they've remained supportive to the project, and are giving you guys some useful feedback.


And yeah, let me be frank with you about this demo. Even though my PC is far from state of the art, I'd still say the Beast's Fury demo has performed THE worst of any game I've tried running on this machine. I can run Skullgirls and Arkham Asylum at high quality, but your game barely even wants to open. What the heck did you guys do? You might want to at least try running it on your parents' computer, or something, because I don't see how you guys felt comfortable releasing this thing. Wish I could offer more useful feedback than that.

Anyway, despite the issues, I do wish you guys luck. It'll definitely be good to see your team move forward from this point, and if the game shows improvement over time, I'll probably give it another look later on.
 
From what I remember the guy went off on me for giving feedback, not sure why that was so rage inducing. Drove me away from the project. It was pretty funny tho 10/10. Careful what you say, he might find you on facebook and give you a stern talking to.
 
Evil-Dog said:
I've been told 2.8gig of memory but 14gig? Can you send a screenshot of your task manager showing this? I have 8gig and still play the game so that seems highly unlikely.
That's because I meant 1.4 gigs! Sorry about the typo but I'm glad it brought another of the developers in, there have been a lot of comments in this thread and not all of them have been particularly constructive.
 
Evil-Dog said:
but man, sometimes people bring this fucking ATTITUDE with everything they say haha it's really rage-inducing :) Oh internet...
Yo. Sure, dealing with the public can be super annoying, there are always idiots. You can generally tell who they are pretty quickly.

HOWEVER. There is a difference between being respectable and not. You can't just tell people to get bent.
Many people think I'm a jerk (and they are correct, heyo! I would never have chosen myself as a spokesperson) but I respect people who respect me and I do right by the game and our crowdfunding promises, I hope. :^)

I'm not really sure how best to say this...but: You took people's money to do a thing. When you have not done the thing you say you will, to the level you said you would, it is their RIGHT to call you out for fucking up.
Those people are your investors, they are your coworkers, they are your publishers. You owe them everything you would owe a traditional publisher, and MORE, because they put money behind you on faith. If you don't think of them as such, or you don't want to treat them as such, you should not be doing crowdfunding.
You wanna tell people to get lost, return the cash. Then you can take as long as you want and the intermediate results can be as muddy as you like.

It's like writing a paper in college. It was due on Tuesday, if you don't turn it in on Tuesday nobody cares why you didn't - you didn't, and your grade suffers as a result. It's your job to get it done, miserable extraneous circumstances be damned.

I find it disheartening that I've explained this to people on your team multiple times, too.


Separately:
The demo is severely underwhelming. Not because of bugs, every game has bugs and especially at that stage, but because of the relatively obvious lack of forethought that went into implementing some of the underlying systems that now have those bugs. Also because you really should be further than "that stage" by now.
If you'd like to talk about that further I'm willing to, but that wasn't the point of this post.
 
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Kit Ballard said:
I'm a first impressions kind of gal.. Wow me with your project. Show me your best, even if it's a demo. And believe me, a lot of games fall under the carpet due to not giving me what I seek.

This game. Animations has my attention. But the demos (Plural, as seeing bugs continue to run rampant in other versions) are seriously failing to keep a grip on my attention. It felt like moosh in my fingers, and everything was backwards (litterally). Then you got the "on action - let's load this animation) thing, which put an even bigger annoyance to the build.

I've honestly lost interest. I originally did but after getting my fingers into the build, it burned. I'm sorry but it felt past the point of saying "I hope you guys can pull it off", as it felt like a capcom game: Unpolished (demo wise - Chars wasn't fleshed out properly) and a glitchy, glitchy mess... I'll try to go ahead and stay positive about it, as the animations are really good! but.. yeah..

That's ok, some people want everything NOW and other people understand what an early build is, I explain why we had to release something early a little higher in the thread. Bugs remain in the game until I get to fixing them, just gotta check the release notes to see what we worked on. But if you've already lost interest and don't care for trying our incremental builds, I'd just recommend to hold your judgement and wait until we say "OMG THIS IS THE BEST BUILD EVER!" and try that one
 
Tomo009 said:
That's because I meant 1.4 gigs! Sorry about the typo but I'm glad it brought another of the developers in, there have been a lot of comments in this thread and not all of them have been particularly constructive.

Haha you scared the hell out of me, I was like how can it take 14gig?!?! lol 1.4g is bad but at least in the realm of reality, thanks
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
Questions/feedback incoming.

I'm ready to fail to answer those! GO!

Fedora_Ninja said:
1.) What is the "fury" button supposed to do?
The fury mode is a sort of ALL OR NOTHING state change that will happen with your character around round 3 (once the adrenaline meter gains are balanced), it has 2 parts, you trigger it and gain a new mode, for instance, Vincent can cancel his specials into other specials for insane special chains and Don has many of his heavy moves upgraded to a more powerful attacks, during the fury mode you have a certain number of hits that you need to connect before the adrenaline gauge runs out to trigger the ultimate finisher, which finishes the opponent if it connects. The downside is that once you've failed your fury mode and unable to connect the finisher or kill your opponent, your state goes the other way and downgrades, Vincent can't do specials anymore and Don has weakened attacks. All the characters will have something unique as to how they fill their adrenaline and what happens when you trigger it and fail it.
Fedora_Ninja said:
2.) What are supposed to be the benefits of adrenaline mode if all the cons lead to eating a free combo due a long recovery and losing all the things that makes the character unique?
Not sure what you mean by that.
Fedora_Ninja said:
3.) What features should be added above frame data and basic functions that form the basis of natural combos?
That's something Andrew could answer if he's willing to be around here hehe
Fedora_Ninja said:
4.) Vincent's Tiamat Knuckle move follows a MK style motion that I personally loathe: :B::F:+button. It doesn't feel natural on pad and it overlaps with Vincent's command overhead (f.mp). If I'm in a situation where I'm pressuring the opppnent and tap back (for spacing or blocking whatever) and hit f.mp, I'm not going to get the overhead I want. I suggest changing it to a QCB+P motion. It would match the animation more. Also, if you make this change, please change Giga Tiamat Knuckle into a QCB motion so that it's logically a powered up version of Tiamat Knuckle and not say, a super version of his fireball stored into his fist and he just runs with it.
Good points, we're aware about certain input conflicts. We're not too worried about that for now. But I agree with you.
Fedora_Ninja said:
5.) Don's Thresher thrash input doesn't need to be a backwards dp. A backwards dp is, strangely enough, actually more awkward to pull off than a regular dp. You just need the game to recognize that the dp shortcut that everyone uses (fwd+qcf) is a dp. and a half circle forward is always a fireball. (How Skullgirls does it)
Tresher is not a dragon punch, it was changed to a QCB.
Fedora_Ninja said:
6.) Why is mako masher a half circle back? If he already has a QCF motion, there's no need to make the execution harder for a reverse motion. A QCB should suffice.
That's entirely subjective. I'm fine with it but ok, up for consideration.
Fedora_Ninja said:
7.) The timing of hitstop on Vincent's s.hp and c.mp look off. With s.hp, the impact freezes on a smear frame. c.mp freezes in a way such that it looks like he's trying to grab a leg, not hit the guy.
Haha I'll look at that one.
Fedora_Ninja said:
8.) Personally think Vincent's j.mp and j.hp should be switched. Following the "Ryu" model, j.mps are more horizontal and useful for air-to-airs. j.hps are slanted downwards and good for jump ins and defensive air-to-airs. (The classic jump back fierce)
That's possible, but also subjective, don't necessarly wanna make Vincent an imitation of Ryu, I see your point though, I'll make a note of it for a further discussion
Fedora_Ninja said:
9.) I noticed that you're planning on implementing different hitstuns based on the strength level of the hit. It's cool, but the problem is light hitstuns don't look very different from the idols, so it's hard to tell if I'm really hitting them.
He is indeed pretty close to idle uh? All animation corrections will be done at a later stage, might use the medium hit or different framing for it though, noted.
Fedora_Ninja said:
10.) There's an issue where if I jump, hold up, and mash on light punch, after landing I will stop jumping and continue doing ground attacks instead of always getting j.lp.
Good one, noted.
Fedora_Ninja said:
11.) I don't agree with juggle points because it sets an arbitrary nature of creating combos, but since I don't have a system to suggest replacing it, I'm just gonna ask this: Are there going to be different "classes" of weight and characters with juggle points? Or is everyone going to have to have character specific juggle combos for each character? I already noticed that Don falls to the ground much faster than Vincent, and the juggle combo I threw together on Vincent didn't work at all on Don.
We have to do a pass to make everything consistent but the juggle values are per launcher move, some moves launch with 3 juggle points, other launch with 5, and different attacks reduce those points. I don't like how the jumping and juggling is a bit too much anim driven for my taste so I'll be revisiting this system.
Fedora_Ninja said:
12.) Why is the trigger for adrenaline LP+MP+LK+MK and not something simpler like MP+MK? Mashing these four buttons is not comfortable to input on a pad, and I can't imagine it being comfortable on a fightstick. Triggering X-factor in MvC3 required 4 button presses, but on a fightstick it was easier since the placement of buttons was essentially LP+MP+HP+LK. It feels more natural pressing the punches with your fingers and LK with your thumb. On pad you could map a shoulder button to 3 of the attacks, and hit the 4th needed input (face button) simultaneously. However if nothing is already mapped to MP+MK, there's not much reason not to map adrenaline trigger to that.
I agree, I'll check with Andrew, I never have problems triggering it with the 4 face buttons but I understand that on a different button layout, it's not a good idea. However, there's a single adrenaline button you can map to a button. What I should be able to add in the control customization is support multibuttons so you can customize the adrenaline button and press MP+MK if you want to. To be seen.
 
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KaboomKid said:
but first I want to ask you about that Kickstarter situation.
The demo was a reward with a date, December 31st. Hence kickstarter's pressure and phone calls to make sure we released something. Now we're in the clear, confirmed with KS.

How much ram and video memory do you have? Cause I sure don't have a good computer and can still run it fine. So let me know and maybe explain more about how the game doesn't run well, in what aspect? We know the animations are loaded stuff on demand so there are freezes when you play until you've seen the different animation groups, but other than that?
 
Mike_Z said:
When you have not done the thing you say you will, to the level you said you would, it is their RIGHT to call you out for fucking up.
Sure, I agree, but I'm not "the team", I'm coding the game so I can't account to what the others do or say since the beginning of the project. We're all human and the project is obviously not going as well as it could so pressure and negativity can bring the worst in people. I'm lucky to be in a position where I can just *shrug* and just keep chugging along through everything I must do on my todo-list but if it was my actual project I would have a hard time keeping my cool, I admit. I do think what you refer to are isolated incidents, we have very positive back and forth with a lot of our fans.

We may be behind but I think we're on the right track with our incremental builds.

Mike_Z said:
If you'd like to talk about that further I'm willing to, but that wasn't the point of this post.
I might take you up on that offer. I know you know your stuff. By the way, I really enjoyed your talk about fighting games, took many notes for this project ;)
 
Evil-Dog said:
eah but I can understand, like imagine seeing your project, your baby, being bashed by many people and you're trying to make it work but there's a lot of negativity, it's just hard and discouraging.

Don't treat your project like a baby. It's a project. Not a baby.
I understand being proud of your hard work but it's still an object and you must treat it as such. I'm serious, keeping a certain distance from your projects helps you see the flaws and fix hem.
 
chickenwithtie said:
Don't treat your project like a baby. It's a project. Not a baby.
I understand being proud of your hard work but it's still an object and you must treat it as such. I'm serious, keeping a certain distance from your projects helps you see the flaws and fix hem.

You darn well know what I meant. Distance or not, people bashing what you do will wear you down.
 
Awesome thanks for answering my questions. Played ver.5a demo for a few min.

First impressions and other things:

-A lot of infinites got fixed, which is great. However it's hard/impossible to combo into anything, but that's already mentioned in patch notes, so I'll just wait of ver.5b.
-I honestly wasn't aware that throw was mapped to LP+LK by default and in earlier builds tried mapping it to LP+LK in custom controls. It wasn't until I took off the mapping (due to overlapping control issues) that I found it. Personally think that allowing the player to have more than one method to throw and have the player customize the second option is unnecessary and can potentially lead to broken stuff later on. It's also misleading into thinking that LP+LK isn't already the default.
-Don:
  • for some reason can only do the heavy version of sharknado, which is active for way too long on whiff and hit.
  • noted that the Tiger Knee motion (qcf+upforward) doesn't register with sharknado to allow sharknado being done as low to the ground as possible.
  • His ground command grab is a HCB, Anti-air command grab is a QCB, and his Hammerhead attack is a QCF. That's really confusing and hard for me to remember which one is which. For consistency sake, I suggest making the ground grab QCF+P, the Anti-air grab a QCF+K, and Hammerhead QCB+P. That way I know that a QCF=grab of some sort and QCB=attack with huge wind up. I'd also suggest changing Sharknado into a QCB since it's like a hurricane kick, but it's no biggie.
  • His j.hk looks too much like a regular jump when I'm jumping forward or back and spamming the button.
-I guessing the character's point is at their feet on knockdown instead of their body?
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
Personally think that allowing the player to have more than one method to throw and have the player customize the second option is unnecessary and can potentially lead to broken stuff later on
I have to agree with you on that. I'll just have to support multibutton customization, do games do that? I don't think I've seen games doing it, anyone?

Fedora_Ninja said:
for some reason can only do the heavy version of sharknado
it's a heavy-only attack

Fedora_Ninja said:
noted that the Tiger Knee motion (qcf+upforward) doesn't register with sharknado to allow sharknado being done as low to the ground as possible.
Why do you include a QCF in there? if you jump in whatever direction and press F+HK in midair, you'll get the sharknado, please clarify.
Fedora_Ninja said:
For consistency sake, I suggest making the ground grab QCF+P, the Anti-air grab a QCF+K, and Hammerhead QCB+P
I agree except I'd have hammerhead forward and mako backward, makes more sense to me, I'll check with Andrew, I mean I mostly note everything people say to discuss with the team and confirm our intents.
Fedora_Ninja said:
His j.hk looks too much like a regular jump when I'm jumping forward or back and spamming the button.
Yeeaaahh..oh well hehe I'll see what we can do about that.
Fedora_Ninja said:
I guessing the character's point is at their feet on knockdown instead of their body?
It's always at the feet, why? and what does the video have to do with anything? Is it just a teabagging video? lol
 
I've actually been using Beast's Fury as a bit of an example for my own fighting game that's barely gotten off the ground and is more of a passion project while I work through college. I've been taking cues from some of the behind the scenes stuff where you showed a lot of the animation. That really hit me, as at that point I didn't really know what went into those animations. I honestly thought it was just creating each individual frame on their own. So that was good to learn. I've also learned to avoid using Kickstarter until the last second. Granted, that's easy for me because my game is, again, a passion project with plans for a free download release. I've only entertained the thought of using Kickstarter if the idea actually took off past my finished project in order to, say, add characters we didn't have time for, maybe get console releases, professional VAs. Seeing these Kickstarter failures and issues the fans have had is really enlightening as to the time and place to actually set it up, and to be careful about making sure one gets what they NEED to get everything rolling right from the get-go

But either way, I've been paying attention to Beast's Fury. Not out of interest, mostly cause that Street Fighter style kinda bores me, but because it is a good example of making the best out of issues that have come early on in development and still fighting to keep it all going. That, and the animation is really impressive. Anyways, I wish you guys luck. If I have any actual feedback, I'll make sure to give ya it.
 
Evil-Dog said:
That's ok, some people want everything NOW and other people understand what an early build is, I explain why we had to release something early a little higher in the thread. Bugs remain in the game until I get to fixing them, just gotta check the release notes to see what we worked on. But if you've already lost interest and don't care for trying our incremental builds, I'd just recommend to hold your judgement and wait until we say "OMG THIS IS THE BEST BUILD EVER!" and try that one
I'm not one of those people, as I'm usually one to partake in Closed Betas to help iron out bugs or find interesting stuff that the devs didn't think of. So I know what's broken and what to expect in an early build. This product was extreamly terrible to play. It wasn't even considered playable to me. It hardly had any form, The controls was ass backwards in 1 build, the hit boxes made no sense, and I felt lost the whole time.

While I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not going to take you up on your offer of when you say "this is the best build". The rushed out the door demo is pretty bad and it reflected badly on each other version. So yeah. It's a learning experiance. So do your best. about the best I can honestly say for ya.


Edit
Evil-Dog said:
It's always at the feet, why?
Even in 3D animation, there's a node at the feet. IN Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it was called the TransN. It governed The Movement of the char, and the absolute X/Y center of a 3D char. So having it at the feet makes it essentual to have it tell you where you need thechar to be at, like standing on the ground, so it's consistant through all animations, or making sure all frames are centered properly when the char is turning, spinning, or throwing a move.
 
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Evil-Dog said:
I'll just have to support multibutton customization, do games do that? I don't think I've seen games doing it, anyone?
Skullgirls has your six attack buttons and 2 buttons set as macros which each can be customized into any combination of buttons you desire. Other fighting games that are scroll-to-set already have a list of button combinations and single inputs that can be set to anything

Evil-Dog said:
Why do you include a QCF in there? if you jump in whatever direction and press F+HK in midair, you'll get the sharknado, please clarify.
Ohhhhhh I was under the misconception that it was a QCF in the air motion, since that's what worked to get the move out in the current and previous builds. What happened to the weaker variations?

Evil-Dog said:
It's always at the feet, why? and what does the video have to do with anything? Is it just a teabagging video? lol
Yeah it's mainly a teabagging vid lol. During a knockdown state, the point in other games is more towards the torso so collisions and recovery are more logical. You'll notice that Vincent's ground recovery animation is completely overlapping Don in the vid. Also, when getting up from a pushup position, the point where you get up is actually more towards your chest than your feet right? Similar concept. Though I'm sure Mike has a better/more indepth talk about character's points.
 
North888 said:
I've actually been using Beast's Fury as a bit of an example for my own fighting game that's barely gotten off the ground and is more of a passion project while I work through college. I've been taking cues from some of the behind the scenes stuff where you showed a lot of the animation. That really hit me, as at that point I didn't really know what went into those animations. I honestly thought it was just creating each individual frame on their own. So that was good to learn. I've also learned to avoid using Kickstarter until the last second. Granted, that's easy for me because my game is, again, a passion project with plans for a free download release. I've only entertained the thought of using Kickstarter if the idea actually took off past my finished project in order to, say, add characters we didn't have time for, maybe get console releases, professional VAs. Seeing these Kickstarter failures and issues the fans have had is really enlightening as to the time and place to actually set it up, and to be careful about making sure one gets what they NEED to get everything rolling right from the get-go

But either way, I've been paying attention to Beast's Fury. Not out of interest, mostly cause that Street Fighter style kinda bores me, but because it is a good example of making the best out of issues that have come early on in development and still fighting to keep it all going. That, and the animation is really impressive. Anyways, I wish you guys luck. If I have any actual feedback, I'll make sure to give ya it.
Awesome man, very encouraging words right there, good luck on your project! Got some images or anything to show?
 
Kit Ballard said:
While I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not going to take you up on your offer of when you say "this is the best build".
It's not rude, but it's a bit dumb if I may say so, if you were interested in our idea and won't try what we think is an awesome polished build, that's just...weird. But that's your call.

Kit Ballard said:
So having it at the feet makes it essentual
Yeah I know why a character's root is at the feet, that's why it's at the feet right now, I was asking why HE was asking if it was at the feet.
 
@Evil-Dog I have to ask, where did you learn your programming from? How will you go about compressing the size of your demos, in preparation of the full product? What do you program with? What model of Unity are you using?
 
WrestlerGuile said:
@Evil-Dog I have to ask, where did you learn your programming from? How will you go about compressing the size of your demos, in preparation of the full product? What do you program with? What model of Unity are you using?

First of all, kudos on your avatar image, I studied programming in school in our educational system here in Quebec, Canada, so that's 3 years in college for a professional degree then 4 more years in university for a bachelor (I mention our system cause I think for some people college and university is the same thing, not sure, anyway here it's not), then worked at Ubisoft for 5 years and been running my business for 4 years now, into my fifth year. And I've been learning all the way and still learning with every project I work on.

The actual size of the demo I'm not worried about, how much RAM it uses (I assume that's what you're talking about) is something I'll address soon. We have a million sprites and our sprite atlases are huge. I need to check into compression as well as multi-resolution atlases and resolution options so you can play with smaller stuff that takes less memory.

So far we're using Unity3D 4.x and 5.x and the game is coded in Javascript (soon converted to C#, probably).
 
Evil-Dog said:
Yeah I know why a character's root is at the feet, that's why it's at the feet right now, I was asking why HE was asking if it was at the feet.
Probably because there are a lot of situations in which it DOESN'T go at your feet in order to work properly.
Boot up SG, go to training, turn Hitboxes on to Advanced and look at where their point is when they get knocked down.
This is a pretty good example of a thing that makes me wary of the game...

Evil-Dog said:
I need to check into compression as well as multi-resolution atlases and resolution options so you can play with smaller stuff that takes less memory.
Please don't make people choose crappier visuals to play using a reasonable amount of memory. SG fits six full characters and a stage into about 400MB.
 
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Evil-Dog said:
Awesome man, very encouraging words right there, good luck on your project! Got some images or anything to show?
Nah, just some concepts. I thought it'd be worth sharing though that your work has actually meant something to someone else working on a project of their own. :D
 
North888 said:
Nah, just some concepts. I thought it'd be worth sharing though that your work has actually meant something to someone else working on a project of their own. :D
Thanks
 
Mike_Z said:
This is a pretty good example of a thing that makes me wary of the game...
You should rather be wary about assuming things you don't know, like where the character's root point SHOULD BE in a game you did not code. There are more than one way to do anything. Even if I have to change how some parts of the game are handled, what exactly is there to be wary about? You're not gonna tell me you coded everything the right way the first time you implemented it, right? Be wary if I refuse to fix something that doesn't work, otherwise, not sure what's the problem.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't say that in an insulting way. I appreciate the feedback but there's nothing to be "worried" about. Any project will have challenges and things to learn. The important thing is if one is able to learn and overcome the challenges, not that there were challenges in the first place.
Mike_Z said:
Please don't make people choose crappier visuals to play using a reasonable amount of memory. SG fits six full characters and a stage into about 400MB
Yeah it does sound bad when you put it that way haha
3 questions for you if you can:
1) How many sprite atlases does your biggest character have?
2) What resolution are they in?
3) Anything to say about image compression/How much memory each sprite atlas takes in memory?
Thanks, much appreciated
 
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That chibi game stopped working. Guess people stopped playing it.
 
Evil-Dog said:
You should rather be wary about assuming things you don't know, like where the character's root point SHOULD BE in a game you did not code.
Nope, it has nothing to do with the engine, it has to do with combat working correctly. You wanna flex bro? :^)
On knockdown/wakeup/sliding/etc, their root / art attach point / whatever point the game considers "where the character is" with respect to collision and the other character facing toward this character...should be horizontally roughly in the middle of their sprite, because otherwise they do things like fall off the back of the screen or work very weirdly when you try to get close to them on wakeup. And if you only do that with the collision and keep the point by their feet, then the other character will be able to walk past that point before they reach the collision, and will turn around.

This is what I mean by you not knowing something you should know, that can be derived by examining pretty much any game that you think works correctly. And it's a design thing, not an engine thing. The engine shouldn't, and probably doesn't, care where the point is relative to the art. But it's still a thing to know.

For completeness, on jumping attacks it can be way below (or occasionally above) their feet, because what's important is that the general position of the head/torso lines up between jumping and standing. Then you have to account for allowing the point to go below the floor when falling, per move, otherwise characters will land early.

Evil-Dog said:
Even if I have to change how some parts of the game are handled, what exactly is there to be wary about? You're not gonna tell me you coded everything the right way the first time you implemented it, right? Be wary if I refuse to fix something that doesn't work, otherwise, not sure what's the problem.
I certainly did not code everything correctly the first time I implemented it. But I did do months of research using every game available to me, and tools for analyzing those games like frame-by-frame and hitbox/object point viewers, etc, to give myself the best chance of building a system that works correctly the first time.

What there is to be wary about is the way you handled that exchange, by assuming your correctness initially and requiring proof otherwise. That in turn makes me not optimistic about how you will learn from or dismiss cases like this in the future, which will greatly impact the quality of the product. It reminds me of the way designers on a certain (non-fighting) game I will not name would bring competitors' games into a meeting room, play them, and spend an hour being dismissive and insulting rather than learning from a product that had already been successful in a marketplace they were trying to compete in, all to avoid possibly admitting their game wasn't great yet. And, to be blunt, it certainly makes me not want to offer any other advice, just based on that.

Evil-Dog said:
Yeah it does sound bad when you put it that way haha
3 questions for you if you can:
1) How many sprite atlases does your biggest character have?
We don't have atlases, frames are stored individually compressed and decompressed as needed. They're not DXTs or anything like that, and they're stored palettized. I don't know how you handle palettes but I hope it isn't several different colored versions of the source art. (^.^)" We decompress all currently used animation frames to one giant atlas of blocks each game frame, and render from that.
Atlases isn't necessarily a bad way to go about it, BB/GG do a similar thing, but it's not what SG does because atlases tend to waste space.
Evil-Dog said:
2) What resolution are they in?
They're stored at 720p resolution, though the original source art is twice that size. There is not enough space for 6x 1080p characters on PS3/360, and because 1080p would require decompression of more data which the 360 in particular is bad at. If they were stored at 1080p the total memory usage for 6 chars goes from about 400MB to about 700-725MB.
3) Anything to say about image compression/How much memory each sprite atlas takes in memory?
Thanks, much appreciated[/QUOTE]
The only comparable data I can provide is: The first frame of Big Band's standing idle is roughly 80k compressed, and the first frame of Cerebella's idle is roughly 57k compressed.
It's all in the organization of your data. Check out demoscene stuff like http://www.farbrausch.com/~fg/seminars/workcompression_download.pdf which was incredibly helpful for me.
 
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This thread became interesting again

BUT

I kinda feel like we should have a new thread for Beast's Fury. Before @Evil-Dog showed up, it was pretty much a shitshow, and now there's a CHANCE this can be a productive discussion, so starting it out as a fresh thread could potentially help that end. Instead of a, "Beast's Fury Kickstarter," thread, it'd be a proper thread talking about the game itself. It's kinda just a judgement call thing, so if nobody cares, I'll just leave it here.
 
Mods don't have the power to alter thread names here? I thought that was a common place feature of a forum. :/
 
Mike_Z said:
Nope, it has nothing to do with the engine, it has to do with combat working correctly. You wanna flex bro? :^)
On knockdown/wakeup/sliding/etc, their root / art attach point / whatever point the game considers "where the character is" with respect to collision and the other character facing toward this character...should be horizontally roughly in the middle of their sprite, because otherwise they do things like fall off the back of the screen or work very weirdly when you try to get close to them on wakeup. And if you only do that with the collision and keep the point by their feet, then the other character will be able to walk past that point before they reach the collision, and will turn around.

Can't flex BRO, you'd beat me with your knowledgism haha but I'm not sure what you're talking about here, our point is in the middle of the sprite always and below, and we do land under the ground when needed for late air attacks. I didn't mean the point is literally at the feet, where the visual feet are in the drawing, like it's over his head when he's upside down? No, and I highly doubt that's what he meant with his question. Is that what you thought I meant or am I missing something?

Mike_Z said:
What there is to be wary about is the way you handled that exchange
No, I really wanted to make sure it wasn't said in an insulting way, But I think your wariness is about a simple thing I've handled already, unless I'm wrong. I'm a pretty nice and open guy, I take all the feedback but like I said, be wary if something is actually done wrong and I actually refuse to fix it. Otherwise, there's no problem.

Mike_Z said:
it certainly makes me not want to offer any other advice, just based on that
Ah come on man :)

Mike_Z said:
We don't have atlases
Yeah, I heard about that at some point, pretty smart. Might have to explore such a venue. Cause the amount of frames we have for each character is kinda mind blowing for atlases. And now I'm ashamed to talk about how were gonna do color palettes lol
Thanks for the link I'll definitely read that.
 
North888 said:
Mods don't have the power to alter thread names here? I thought that was a common place feature of a forum. :/
Then it would still be miles of shit leading up to an actual discussion about the game, only with a better name.
 
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Night Phyre said:
Then it would still be miles of shit leading up to an actual discussion about the game, only with a better name.

I don't think it matters that much, the people that are following this thread are just going to follow a different one, might be confusing. I think it's pretty funny shit, but if someone wants to make a second thread go ahead.

Maybe @Evil-Dog can make a feedback thread? it would make it so he can edit the first post however he wants.
 
Grangach said:
Maybe @Evil-Dog can make a feedback thread? it would make it so he can edit the first post however he wants.
That's actually a good idea. @Evil-Dog if you want to make a real, "The BEAST'S FURY Thread," thing, do so and I'll close this one and link it so the conversation fully migrates.
 
RIP in piece my first ever thread I'll see you in my dreams BibleThump
 
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