Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Liam said:

1360 at max scaling is like adding a free level 1 onto every combo, and you can load and fire in the same combo since the load won't take up an assist action.

That sounds really powerful to me for a character that had very niche and subpar assists for years O_O
but could be worth a try

You can always make it a call/throw once per combo.

Liam said:

1360 at max scaling is like adding a free level 1 onto every combo, and you can load and fire in the same combo since the load won't take up an assist action.

Also doesn't add undizzy.

you could make loading count as your combo's assist to prevent it being stupid broken

You could also just nerf how much it does or how long it lasts when used as an assist. Not like there aren't already other moves that have assist nerfs.

Or only allow 2 loads in the assist before throwing, however if lvl3 is manually loaded, allow lvl 3 to be thrown

i would rather allow just 1 load before throwing to be fair

I don't realistically see Valentine being better than my current top 5 characters even if you could do multiple vial loads per combo. I'm talking retail missiles assist. How many people call 4x Robo assists in retail to get the full missiles at the end of their combo?

Liam said:

That isn't because of missiles that's because of beam being one of the god assists.

If missiles did 2k for two heads you'd see it if she didn't have beam.

Beam and other god assists dont need you to win neutral to get the benefits

You sacrifice a neutral assist to augment followups and setups later

Current retail missiles does what? 1k and is basically retail M Shadow but without the corner vacuum? Any character in the game gets 6-way oki off of it because it pulls the opponent upward. It was slept on because the execution to set up 4 assist calls in a combo reliably is beyond what people have been doing over the last year of the game.

I'm willing to be wrong about this, but I want to see somebody do something horrible with it first.

I am willing to do horrible things with it as a test

I mean test it

tbh i think the only way it would be close to balanced would be a one vial limit so your calls do something like

check if vial is loaded
if no, load vial
if yes, throw vial

otherwise people are just gonna be throwing around lv3 poison vials and TODing everything

I mean even with level 3 you dont tod without a reset without 3 to 5 meter (which many chars can still tod after 1 reset anyway)

As a duo you have val 2nd to use this, so no neutral assists.

Solo cant use it

So it would be incentive to run val off point for trios and slightly duo

Edit: HCH will allow easier kills, but bc the opponent messed up to get hit that way its their fault?

I'm saying right now, you can test this out by just running taunt assist and trying to see if you can do it 4 times in 1 combo.

Remember, air chains after launchers count as superjump state, so you can't call assist during them. You can't call assist during 2 of the 4 chains (5 including the confirm chain) of Barrel Loop, for example.

M Brass beating H Beam makes no SENSE though, since it has less armor than H Brass.
What about H Beam just losing to SSJ, not Brass ever?

Also, even in the current matchup, Robo still has mine which she can put out to stop armor, non-H beams, and L drone.

Mike_Z said:

What about H Beam just losing to SSJ, not Brass ever?

I like this. It keeps the essence of the change while adding a higher burden (meter expenditure) and removing the primary over-adjustment concern, the sliding knockdown.

I haven't played the MU, but doesn't Robo still have mines and c.MK to deal with brass?

Also, am I the only one that thinks Fukua's c.MP and MK Shadow not having a vacuum hitbox in the corner is kinda too much? I hate fighting the character and even I think she shouldn't lose that.

Liam said:

All of those last options trade and then she gets hard knockdown'd which was the thing she can't afford. : /
Including the armour breaking mine.

You have to place the mine midway between you and Band, and then you have to get to fullscreen for it to be at a reasonable distance to trip him and not get hit from my experience.

Well, there is that one thing somebody suggested where you can hold a button to place a mine further away from you....

It's not like once Robo is commited to an air Beam she can DHC out on reaction before SSJ gets to her since she has no air super. If the Big Band player got the read on that he deserves it for a bar, but not for none with E-Brake being a thing.

M shadow losing vacuum in corner makes sense. Confused on c.mp change. Can't wait to test!!!

Re: BB vs Robo, how about on parrying one of Robo's beams, it moves BB forward, like with what happens when he parries Cat Cannon lv 1 and lv 3?

It rewards Big Band for parrying a reactable full screen move by advancing him forward and also looks really cool.

Hey @Mike_Z and @Lex; first off, you’re right, I really goofed up the combo quite a bit and that definitely messed up my understanding of the damage. When I went back and redid the combo down to the exact input and level 3 activation point (34 hits in) I found out my math was off too. Most importantly, I wasn't aware of her level 3 being modified post beta period, and I was under the false impression that it did a flat 5k in retail (I have no clue where I got that from.) The last two alone really threw off my understanding of the damage scaling / damage output. Once again, sorry and thanks for getting back to me.

Final answer, for those of you who are wondering, is exactly what Mike said: 575 damage difference (11,491 Retail, 10,916 Beta = 575 damage)

(On a side note, why is retail SG so much quieter than Beta? I have retail at 100% volume and can barely hear it, while the beta version is at 10% and is still at RIP HEADPHONE USERS D: )

I don't like the idea of giving moves like SSJ (or brass) specific properties vs specific moves or characters. Is just add the function to soak projectiles like Eliza c.hk not a good idea? It just seems like if a move has 3 hits it should break 1 or 2 hits of armor, unless it's hyper armor or anti-projectile armor or something.

Jim Groovester said:

Re: BB vs Robo, how about on parrying one of Robo's beams, it moves BB forward, like with what happens when he parries Cat Cannon lv 1 and lv 3?

It rewards Big Band for parrying a reactable full screen move by advancing him forward and also looks really cool.

i feel like this one is more fair than the brass thing

Zidiane said:

I don't like the idea of giving moves like SSJ (or brass) specific properties vs specific moves or characters. Is just add the function to soak projectiles like Eliza c.hk not a good idea? It just seems like if a move has 3 hits it should break 1 or 2 hits of armor, unless it's hyper armor or anti-projectile armor or something.

Mike was specifically looking to fix a single matchup with the beam armor thing, not affect Big Band as a whole. Your idea would go WAAAAY beyond that.

Mike_Z said:

M Brass beating H Beam makes no SENSE though, since it has less armor than H Brass.
What about H Beam just losing to SSJ, not Brass ever?

Also, even in the current matchup, Robo still has mine which she can put out to stop armor, non-H beams, and L drone.

I don't see being able to go though it with SSJ being particularly great since SSJ knocks the opponent to the other side of the screen. The great part about being able to go though H Beam with H Brass is its a sliding knockdown.

Liam said:

His MU's vs Peacock, Robo and Fukua are not so hot and those are the MU's it would effect.

I think it would be fine and cool and would remove it being a special exception.

Edit: oops I guess it would destroy para level 3 too..

I don't have any personal objections to it, I'm just saying it goes beyond the scope of what the original change was meant for.

It'd be neat to test, though.

Fukua feels great. Nerfs make me have to make more decisions which is FUN!
Filia also feels great as well. I like how when i go in on somebody i STAY in and force them to make a decision when i am up close in their face. Like I get rewarded for getting in.

Tested things out in training mode concerning fukua. I actually like how c.mp and m shadow functions in the corner a lot! there are alternatives to getting certain results but require more undizzy usage and creativity and makes it really exciting on how to use the shadow holds.

I was thinking about the suggested Valentine change. What if the Poison Vial did reduced per frame damage? Like, it does roughly half as much damage if the assist used it. That would bring the overall damage to around 900-950. The thing I'm more concerned about is if Valentine were to ever pump the green vial into somebody after point Valentine built it up so it could remove Undizzy. I mean I've never been good enough to make good use of that sort of thing, but it's something I think should be considered if throwing the vial becomes something more plausible. Also, what if picking your poison was like with the Shadows where you can push two buttons to get Valentine to add more doses up to 2 or 3 doses? Perhaps all three buttons would make her charge up poison to 3 specifically, but combinations of 2 would power up the other ones to 2 doses. I dunno, I'm just spit-balling right now.

JSlayerXero said:

where you can push two buttons to get Valentine to add more doses up to 2 or 3 doses? Perhaps all three buttons would make her charge up poison to 3 specifically, but combinations of 2 would power up the other ones to 2 doses.

I'm assuming you mean that she can add more doses at once while making her more vulnerable as she will be standing there for a longer period of time, because if it didn't it would be broken lol

I'm sure my opinion will not only be drowned in here, but disregarded because "you only play fukua so of course you hate the nerfs".

The only one thing I completely disagree with is the 100% damage scaling after BFF super. There are multiple characters who can combo off of their super who don't get maximum damage scaling. Fukua's BFF super wasn't even that "broken" to begin with. This renders the super almost useless other than the damage dealt.

"But MMDS, just reset after the super" - everyone

Well why not implement that with all characters then. Cerebella corner super, double monster, filia ball, painwheel air super, fortune air super, peacock super etc...

She got "Reduce damage by ~100 on many moves, 200 on shadows and c.HP, and 300 on command grabs, to lower combo damage slightly", the BFF super did not need to be destroyed. I respect Sonic Fox greatly, I love his play, but I can't agree with his suggestion to make this super 100% scaled. It was perfectly fine before.

I have other issues with her too but I can deal with the others. This one just irked me playing in beta.

Only other one that bothered me was the hitstun of H. drill and shadows being erased by physical attacks but 1 thing at a time...

/fukua rant

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Robo
"You're probably happy because your 2nd favorite character got buffed to hell" - everyone

Yes and no.

Unlike other top players, I didn't think she was the worst character in the game. In fact, my tier list puts her at 4th. (Filia > double > eliza > robo > fukua > everyone).

I just use her completely different than the other (very few) people. I didn't really have any match-up trouble against any character (or any player really). I played her as a rushdown character with a zoning as an option (storm from mvc2). So since I rarely zone with her, these "buffs" really don't apply to me as other full on zoning robos. In fact,

"Decrease damage on all normals to lower her combo damage a decent amount. Her zoning is getting a huge boost, reducing her actually-pretty-high damage to low-average is basically required"

actually hurts my game play. But I still think she is super fun and I played her in beta and still enjoy my stuff. I think (sorry Liam) these buffs actually make her too strong. She shouldn't have some of the buffs she got because of the incredible setups you can do now with missiles. I haven't even gone to training mode but I already had pretty secret cool tech that was difficult to pull off due to timing and height of missiles but these changes will make her do amazing combos in the right hands. Pretty sure in a month's time, when people figure out what to do, some of these changes will be reverted.




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Only reason I'm not commenting on the rest is because I haven't given them a try or don't play that character to know enough to consider it a good/bad change. I'll leave the others for experts in that field.

But considering myself "above average" on those 2 characters, I just wanted to share my thoughts.

Rabbleflaggers said:

I'm assuming you mean that she can add more doses at once while making her more vulnerable as she will be standing there for a longer period of time, because if it didn't it would be broken lol

It dawned upon me that I should've probably specified Shadow of Impending Doom where, if I recall, Peacock just stands around dancing until the dropped item hits the dirt. Yeah, like that exactly. Valentine would be vulnerable for a while while she puts the multiple doses into her syringe.

I quite like the Fukua changes, though I'm with @MegamanDS in being a bit unsure about the physical hit on shadow thing. I'm not really sure how I feel, but I was a bit concerned that at top level play they'd just be swatted away every time. I mean, it's probably not a big deal, since said swatting opens up that player to a counterhit, but that's assuming the counterhit even happens, which I don't since a jab would probably be safe enough.

Otherwise, held shadows are super cool and fun and make Fukua feel kinda like Dizzy (Yes I know I'm a Millia main, but I like Dizzy too).

Also, @FXFGamer, while I realize it's not a complete fix, the newest build makes it not release shadow until all kicks are released, so using a LK+MK+HK macro on L1 or L2 will hold the shadow and free up your right hand, though it doesn't allow you to kick. I guess the other option would be to put two of her normals onto L1 and L2, but I could understand why that would also be troublesome. This is actually why I switched to a stick (and as much as possible play games either with KB+M or my stick), because I find pad too tendonitis-inducing.