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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

So, I never could figure out how to block grabs. Any tips?
 
Aden said:
Tech them, like a grab.
Heh, I was never good at that, either.
 
The window is actually larger than you'd think, I've found, some of them I was surprised that I got it despite either hitting what I assumed was too early or too late.
 
Aden said:
The window is actually larger than you'd think, I've found, some of them I was surprised that I got it despite either hitting what I assumed was too early or too late.
Do you tap the button when the "Ding!" that says you're going to be grabbed goes off, or do you tap when it looks like the animation will grab you?

Speaking of grabs, the golem is adorable.
 
When the actual grab is occurring, as said, seems like you can do it a bit early, need to test that more but that was my impression.
 
I feel ashamed I didn't get Clearest on first try. Mostly cause I forgot about that OTHER ability you get now from the boss...
 
I dono if it happened to anyone else yet, but I will go a head and confirm that "Knocking out of Battle" is still a thing, just there's a rare opportunity for it to happen. But a bonus is if one of your people is tossed off a ledge, they show back up in the center of the party.
 
Yeah I had that happen too.

Kawalorn said:
Yeah I gave up after 10 times. Too tired for this "blink of an eye" reaction stuff.
As said in the other thread, just try to block before it actually happens.
 
Hell yeeeaaah son, I spent like an extra 20+ minutes looking for secrets when I didn't need to lol...

...I still don't trust it, that was too easy, I bet there's a clearerest now, or some kind of secret that doesn't add to the percentage

DON'T STOP PLAYING!!!

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I don't think this is how fullscreen is supposed to look.
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Yeah my monitor's a bit old. I think Mike and the artists don't want me cheating and getting the camera outside the designated boundaries. :P
 
Holding L1 and R1 to escape from battle needs to change. If you have the bow and ax and you're accidentally holding either button when you actually do escape the battle it makes you stop in your tracks because you pull out your weapons. Then you scramble to try and get away from the same monster again. It should be hold L1 and R1 to initiate the escape then it just escapes automatically unless you press a button to cancel it.
 
Aden said:
Yeah I had that happen too.


As said in the other thread, just try to block before it actually happens.
That hardly works. Half the time I get chipped out anyway, especially since the blocking doesn't work during the slowdown.

If this react-or-die shit is going to be in the real game, I want my backer money back.
 
Shadowfury333 said:
If this react-or-die shit is going to be in the real game, I want my backer money back.
...Because of a bragging-rights bonus boss?
 
Sounds like there are some other problems going on, so whatever the case, guess this conversation's over.
 
HiroProtagonest said:
Sounds like there are some other problems going on, so whatever the case, guess this conversation's over.
To be more specific, it shows what *could* happen in the bounds of the game's design, and it's beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.
 
Shadowfury333 said:
To be more specific, it shows what *could* happen in the bounds of the game's design, and it's beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.
Why not provide feedback? That and bug fixes are what this beta are for after all.
 
@J-Boogie said:
Why not provide feedback? That and bug fixes are what this beta are for after all.
Fair. I guess I figured that the nature of the boss was such that any changes to it cheapen it for everyone, and it's all my problem and my opinion is worthless because I can't handle it.

But if that isn't the case, my feedback would be: Don't let chip kill, especially on an attack like the laser; and the earthquake is fine, since that's not react-or-die, but react-or-pain, which is survivable with appropriate planning and meter management.
 
My only complaint for the cat is it laser beamed 3 times quick enough succession that I really don't know what I could have possibly done to win that round.
Shadowfury333 said:
That hardly works. Half the time I get chipped out anyway, especially since the blocking doesn't work during the slowdown.
Then you didn't block, it's worked for me every time I've tried it, only time it didn't is because I sat there like an idiot holding block when it went for grab.
 
Aden said:
My only complaint for the cat is it laser beamed 3 times quick enough succession that I really don't know what I could have possibly done to win that round.

Then you didn't block, it's worked for me every time I've tried it, only time it didn't is because I sat there like an idiot holding block when it went for grab.
It played the animation and the lotus pattern, so I'm not sure what happened.
 
The cat fight (since we're all forgoing secrecy) is optional and geared as a "harder challenge". Could it mean that'll be the norm? Highly doubt it.

The only thing that I'm hating about combat is when some monsters try to grab and attack at the same time, resulting in me getting grabbed/attacked either way.
 
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MAN

I kicked the cat's butt. Razmi, Ginseng, and Ajna just dish out too much heals/revives to make the cat effective.
 
Why would I want to play a game where 100% completion destroys my mind and ruins relationships with everyone around me (for the 3rd time)?

Besides, even as a harder challenge it's bullshit. I could see it being fine if proper meter and health management could compensate for one bad reaction, but just having that tight of an all-or-nothing reaction test to waste 5 minutes of my life over and over, without any way to adjust to it (like a less lethal laser in an earlier stage) before it comes up, is not acceptable.
 
Kit Ballard said:
The only thing that I'm hating about combat is when some monsters try to grab and attack at the same time, resulting in me getting grabbed/attacked either way.
Yeah those are the real mixups, I get the feeling that if I'm in blockstun I might not be grabbable, but either one can hit you first. I'll have to watch which monster is connected to each line and coming at me first.
 
I'm curious because I actually never saw the attack in Kit's spoiler video, and it's not from a shortage of tries at the fight. Is there anyone else it didn't appear for?
 
I think the Razmi+Ginseng team combo is super strong, and I kind of lucked out that my first fight with Cat was using that team, since I kept getting hit with the grab. I don't think I ever saw that beam move everyone is talking about either though. I'll have to go at him again.

Shadowfury333 said:
the earthquake is fine, since that's not react-or-die, but react-or-pain, which is survivable with appropriate planning and meter management.
Cat was pretty react or die in the Prototype too, except now you can make teams that aren't dependent on Razmi alone to survive, which feels a lot more fair for his level of damage. Like Kit said, he's a secret boss, and deliberately cheesy, so I wouldn't go as far as to judge the potential balance of the finished game based on what they do with him.
 
So uh, any idea how long I'll be waiting for Lunix?

;_;
 
Kit Ballard said:
(since we're all forgoing secrecy)
The cat was obviously going to be in though, the new boss and a certain someone else are the only things that I would think could be considered secret.
 
Aden said:
The cat was obviously going to be in though, the new boss and a certain someone else are the only things that I would think could be considered secret.
Obvious for us, who regularly use the forums and stay well informed of development. Not so obvious for the average person who decides to try out the demo.
 
KaboomKid said:
Cat was pretty react or die in the Prototype too, except now you can make teams that aren't dependent on Razmi alone to survive, which feels a lot more fair for his level of damage. Like Kit said, he's a secret boss, and deliberately cheesy, so I wouldn't go as far as to judge the potential balance of the finished game based on what they do with him.
IIRC The earthquake was survivable at full health in the prototype and the backer preview, but I'm not in a state of mind to check atm.

Also, is it just me, or does the laser cleanse the cat of Razmi's hex (down attack)?

Lastly, how can I not judge the potential balance of the final game on this? It's in a preview designed to give a taste of the final game. It's meant to provide a clear idea of what L0 considers Indivisible to be. I can't imagine every challenge boss in the final game will be like this, but having it at all would be egregious.

AFAICT This game trains the player to mind their meter, action pips, and health over the course of a fight, with blocking being generally a way to help manage all three, but not strictly necessary to survive if the player is handling their actions and meter wisely. It doesn't train the player to expect to be playing a rhythm game on expert.

I get that blocking a reaction test, but my problem is one of degree, not kind. I'm fine with a reaction test where passing provides meter (and action pips when executed near-perfectly), and failing requires expenditure of actions and meter to maintain health. I'm not fine with a reaction test where passing requires expenditure of actions and meter to desperately maintain health (although at least fully charged Ginseng recovers fairly well, at least the first time), and failing is an auto-lose.
 
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Okay Shadowfury, you need to calm down.

Yes, maybe the balance of the optional super boss may be off, or maybe it's totally fine. Either way it's just a small little easter egg that's been put in this build of the game and not totally indicative of the final product. You can extrapolate and have some expectations, but you are also ignoring the fact that there are so many missing features and balance changes that will be made to the game.

Take for example leveling up and character enhancing - these are two features that are clearly not in the preview that will be in the game later. These things will help by giving you a statistical boost to help you survive or kill bosses like this faster.

Other things include missing characters and abilities. Take Qadira for example, she's supposed to have a defensive super that will definitely help alleviate damage taken. As far as I know, this is clearly missing from the backer preview currently, since all she does is charge in for all three levels of super. So there will be strategies that you can form based on your party composition that can help you deal with such situations.

And lastly, balance tweaks will constantly be made to the game. And as Kit mentioned, you can provide your feedback to the team for consideration. That's what early access to games like this is about. Maybe the community in general is alright with the current state of the super boss, but that does not mean it can't be improved. And your feedback can definitely help with that, as long as you express it intelligibly. And beyond your overreaction, it does seem like you're capable of doing that so far. So take a step back and calmly express your opinions.

Also if things really remain the same for bosses like this, remember you don't HAVE to 100% this game. Do what you enjoy, play all other parts of the game and simply ignore anything that you don't particularly like. As long as it's optional, it goes without saying, but you don't have to do it. So don't do it.
 
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I feel like telling somebody they don't have to do something when they've already said it's what they like to do is a bit much.

There was some overreaction in the beginning but I understand where Shadowfury is coming from.
 
At this point I'm not even sure I'm the target audience. When I started my playthrough this morning, my first reaction on seeing the opening walljump bits was "okay, this is going to be long, but that's to be expected", and was starting to worry I might not have enough to talk about to keep the stream audience entertained. When I finished it, but accidentally ended before going back and using Heruka dash, I thought "crap, I have to go through that again?" but I did (obviously somewhat faster that time), but I couldn't find the scribble cat fight on stream (didn't realize the way at the time) and left the stream at 99.5%.

I didn't want to do it again right then, but I couldn't get it out of my head, so I spent another 30 minutes or so getting back through the 2 major fights, and kinda dreading it again (though, as per Indivisible, each subsequent time I found ways to optimize), and then found Scribblecat. I spent an hour trying, but got so frustrated my housemate demanded I take a break. At this point the thought of going through the process to even attempt Scribblecat again is not something I want to consider, as for whatever reason I'm viewing the fights along the way as obstacles to be optimized away rather than interesting engagements in their own rights.

I don't know, maybe with a proper learning curve and save/load system the "I guess I need to optimize my way through these" fights will be far less prevalent, and there will be more engaging fights that aren't as full of cheese as a dairy farmer's cold storage, so maybe my interest curve won't go from bored on autopilot to "good-God-how-the-hell-does-any-human-being-manage-to-deal-with-that?!!" in the span of one fight.
 
I haven't beaten the cat yet, but I'm very happy there's a super hard boss to tied over people who like a real challenge.

@Shadowfury333 You might be missing an important mechanic.
Holding all-block will not consume meter until an enemy attacks. If the cat targets just one character, then you can react by releasing it and block with that character to preserve meter. I don't think the beam is supposed to be reactable for most people.
 
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I am going to say that the Cat is easier this time around. Even with the lazer of doom. Only time I've honestly lost to this version was to the laser beam, and only when I wasn't paying attention. The Proto was tougher to me. I've survived the laser with just Ajna and Ginseng once, had enough meter to Rez and then use a full power Ginsen Up.

At least you don't have to try to waste like, 30 mins trying to climb out of a pit to fight the cat. That was the annoying thing about the Proto XD
 
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