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Eliza SPOILERS - Eliza Story Mode Discussion

Man, I'm glad the DLC was released when it was. The beginning of my playthrough was smooth, but as usual, that Nightmare Marie fight was like driving right into quicksand. I tell ya, if Eliza had just waited 'till AFTER that fight to kill Bella, things woulda been a LOT easier!

Anyway, I really enjoyed this story mode. I actually found it kind of refreshing to watch Eliza care progressively less about the people around her as the story went on. It's been a while since I've played a character, particularly a villain, that felt that much in control, and I think her unshakable villainy adds a needed perspective to the Skullgirls world. The fights in this story also had a lot of weight to them compared to some of the others, as you saw Eliza make very decisive actions against her opponents after beating them. I always hate it when a story mode allows us to win with the villain in-game, only to spoonfeed us a sequence that works out for the good-guys afterwards. Nah, not this time.

I'll be honest though, comparing story modes, I do feel as if I enjoyed Big Band's a little bit more. I think that's mostly because I found BB's more complete in terms of the narrative. While his played off like an entire episode from a TV series, Eliza's felt more like the first 8 minutes of a feature film. They were both still awesome, but I guess in the end, I felt I just got a more complete vision of one character compared to the other.

However, I can certainly understand any restraint they had in writing Eliza's story mode. Even though her story made a lot of bold moves and went to some awesome places, there's still a ton of lore behind her that we really shouldn't know until a true canon narrative can bring those details to light. We gotta believe that there's something to look forward to one day, after all.

But yeah, it was an enjoyable run, so props as always to LabZero. I hope newcomers to SG are finally realizing that these ladies don't mess around!
 
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All of this conversation happened at work. FUCK. I'll read it all tomorrow maybe.
 
Ninja said:
and where was Valentine? She was still working for the Skull Girl, could we at least have Eliza look at Valentine be like " I'm sorry i don't have time for a check-up, can you take a rain-check?" and smack Val so hard that she falls unconscious?

Why does Valentine need to be in the story if she had no place in it? What purpose would a one-liner cameo serve, especially in an already massive story?

I like Big Band and Ottomo but I'm not gonna be like "MAN FUCK ALEX WHERE ARE THE ROBOTS"
 
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It doesn't seem that any of Lab 8's cast would have any relation to Eliza.

Eliza's not actively searching for the Skullheart or to defeat the Skullgirl, and only the Medici family seems to know Eliza's secret.

Eliza's story wraps around being blackmailed, finding a blood supply, and her mysterious past relating to both the Trinity and the parasites. Having Peacock, BB, PW, or Val pop up (Although Val could've appeared alongside Double, this was a personal fight between her and Eliza. Having Val there would lessen the tension of the scene) wouldn't really help the story along at all.
 
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i don't know if i read it wrong, but did eliza mention that cerebella's an "immortal" or was that something else
 
Gahooglydonks said:
i don't know if i read it wrong, but did eliza mention that cerebella's an "immortal" or was that something else
She meant Fortune.
 
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Ninja said:
Sigh...uhhh mini rant? i don't know. unpopular option? whatever...

I love how i can sum up Eliza's personality in one sentence said by Filia: "All I got was, She's Evil." nothing else is really given about her. her backstory is quickly mention in tiny, not very helpful pieces all through out the story mode that could have given Eliza some depth, but all they do is enforce the fact that she is evil. and where was Valentine? She was still working for the Skull Girl, could we at least have Eliza look at Valentine be like " I'm sorry i don't have time for a check-up, can you take a rain-check?" and smack Val so hard that she falls unconscious? I just... sigh... man there could have been so much done to Eliza's character but they didn't they just did exposition. I hate that in a story.
That's kind of what I got from her story mode. She's an evil, chaotic being. I mean, she can be a diva too, but we see more of that side of her when she's fighting, like when she loses by time-out ("I wasn't even trying!"). But I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

Eliza seems more like a villain with no concrete plan and just does whatever the hell she feels like. Opposed to Marie, a more sympathetic villain with an agenda. I like to think of Eliza as this game's Joker, while Marie is this game's Mr. Freeze.
 
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SpaceCadetKeon said:
I like to think of Eliza as this game's Joker, while Marie is this game's Mr. Freeze.
okay.
Joker does have an agenda, it's quite simple it's called "Fuck with Batman". Joker is the clear opposite to Batman where he activly goes and presses all of Batman's buttons to see if he will snap. And Batman knows that he could kill Joker for all the things he has done to him, but he doesn't because of his moral code. Joker doesn't care about anything else but to just mess up Batman's life, he gets his kicks by doing this, that it's all just a game to him. Where as Eliza, she wants to enslave the whole world it's not the same type of evil in my eyes. Joker is the type of evil where he kills people just to one person so that he can watch this person suffer for their whole life. Eliza is the over arching evil, she doesn't care about anything, she just wants to control. She could of been like Joker if she had made the other girls suffer (the only one that is suffering is Ms. Fortune but narrative does not focus on her suffering. They just pass her off as a food source for Eliza.) And that's fine and all but comparing Eliza and Joker it turns out that they are two completely different villains. She's not sadistic, she's more materialistic. The comparison with Marie and Mr. Freeze is fair they both have similar forms of tragedies and they want to fix their lives or at least get some closure.


What ever. I don't want to talk about this stuff anymore. It's a fighting game, and i just want to play against people. I'm outa here. Ta
 
I was thinking more along the lines of The Dark Knight watch-the-world-burn Joker, but whatevs. Never said the comparison was 1:1, just felt it was somewhere in that ballpark.
WaterMystic277 said:
Also, I'm questioning more and more about how much Albace and Horace know about her (And the extent of their loyalty)
I'm wondering just how long they've been hanging with her. They certainly know more about her than most people. Perhaps they're immortal too?
 
SpaceCadetKeon said:
I'm wondering just how long they've been hanging with her. They certainly know more about her than most people. Perhaps they're immortal too?
I assume not, since didn't Alex say Albus was the "new guy" or something to that effect?
 
Ninja said:
I love how i can sum up Eliza's personality in one sentence said by Filia: "All I got was, She's Evil." nothing else is really given about her. her backstory is quickly mention in tiny, not very helpful pieces all through out the story mode that could have given Eliza some depth, but all they do is enforce the fact that she is evil. and where was Valentine? She was still working for the Skull Girl, could we at least have Eliza look at Valentine be like " I'm sorry i don't have time for a check-up, can you take a rain-check?" and smack Val so hard that she falls unconscious? I just... sigh... man there could have been so much done to Eliza's character but they didn't they just did exposition. I hate that in a story.


I've got to disagree. Calling her plainly "Evil" and leaving it at that is like saying you can sum up Peacock or Big Band by just saying "They're good". Especially when she's shown in the story to not be fully evil considering her affection for Samson (where she could just murder him for standing against her) and her care for Albus and Horace. Her loyal servants are exempt from any of her wrongdoings because she's not just "plainly evil" she's a tyrant who longs to be worshiped. She desires it so much that her version of "laying low" is running a hugely popular nightclub.

Most importantly though accusing the story of being exposition heavy and also saying it didn't answer any questions is paradoxical. Exposition exists to answer questions and provide explanation. More often than not Eliza brings up major events of the past in one line and moves on. Why? Because she knows what happened, and the person she was talking to knows what happened. She doesn't go at lengths to explain it to the audience (which is the definition of exposition) because she's not concerned with US knowing, she's concerned with her conversation. The story answered many more questions about Eliza's character than it did about the lore. She's ruthless, she has a god complex, she's not easily controlled and she's not purely blackhearted. She is certainly evil, yes, but she is not purely so simply because she desires to rule people and be worshiped.
 
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SpaceCadetKeon said:
That's kind of what I got from her story mode. She's an evil, chaotic being. I mean, she can be a diva too, but we see more of that side of her when she's fighting, like when she loses by time-out ("I wasn't even trying!"). But I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

Eliza seems more like a villain with no concrete plan and just does whatever the hell she feels like. Opposed to Marie, a more sympathetic villain with an agenda. I like to think of Eliza as this game's Joker, while Marie is this game's Mr. Freeze.

I don't really think that Eliza being evil for the sake of being evil is a bad thing. You can't sympathize with someone who is evil for the sake of being evil and lots of characters are portrayed this way for that reason. Agent smith from the matrix, Sauron from lord of the ring and the joker are just a few examples of this. In most cannons of batman the joker shows up and starts fucking shit up you don't get a reason why and you don't need one it makes batman all the more "good" to combat someone so evil.

Sure we don't know why Eliza is so evil but it says a lot about her character to be so evil. For example it seems that Sekhmet has some type of affection for Samson but regardless of whatever feelings she may have she does not let that stand in the way of her ambition. We know that Samson Skehmet and Leviathan all held a similar level of status at one point and for some reason Skehmet desired more.

Skehmet wants power Eliza wants to be center stage they don't let anything stand in there way to the top they don't tolerate disrespect. Eliza is a sociopath Part of her character is in someway to be less of a character.

It's easy to feel sorry for Golem from lord of the rings or Mr freeze from batman or Sykes (the bald guy from the Matrix) They all have back stories that reveal that they may have not always been evil.

Your not meant to feel sorry for Eliza, Eliza is a stone cold bitch who don't need no man!
 
WaterMystic277 said:
Also, I'm questioning more and more about how much Albace and Horace know about her (And the extent of their loyalty)
I think they would rather avoid going down that rabbit hole.
 
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i shiver everytime.jpg
I shiver everytime...
 
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Gehenna music reminds me of ninja gaiden

Double's interaction with Eliza was the most interesting to me. It's also interesting that the skullheart itself seemed to have motives beyond just trapping wishful girls.

Huge Eliza was pretty sick.
 
So, my husband and i played the story mode together and the entire time we were just like "Wow... what!? Oh GEEZ!" It was great.

Eliza comes off to me as someone who, as I put it to my husband, "wants to push the cosmic reset button." At some point, she was on top, worshiped even. Then she turned around and made a mess of things. Now she wants all of that back. Her actions could be seen as evil, but her motives not so much. I love characters who are evil but their motive itself isn't evil. Eliza wants to be worshiped again and she's willing to do evil to get there.

Her story plays out so drastically different than everyone else's that I can't help but think some of it must be canon in some way... Just all the revelations and what not. And, goddess above, that exchange between her and Double. All this time I thought Double was straight up evil, but seeing her react with such emotion, I feel sorry for her. It also makes me wonder if Lamia twisted into Double, or possessed someone after the death of her daughters and that become Double. But, Eliza's interactions with everyone were amazing. We get teaspoons of info to fill in a few holes, but still leave things open to personal interpretation and speculation. I love that.

I can't quite remember exactly what my husband said, but it something along the lines of "where has Eliza been this whole time?" I think she's just been lying low, collecting enough blood so she could gain the power she needed to dominate the world, to give the people the goddess she believes they need to worship.

And then that mecha fight broke out and I wish we could have played it.
 
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tumblr_ncra2xKUGU1r0a6fio2_1280.png

From: http://taynacious.tumblr.com/

By this point it is okay to objectively call Eliza evil.

She may have some grade of care for her servants, but so what? It is easy being caring and nice with people close to you or your own toys. How you treat strangers and people who don't share your views...

Eliza eats people for the sake of being worshipped and Double/Lamia (seems to) eat people for a traumatic event of the past. Not evil for evil's sake but still selfish and evil.
 
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Colossi said:
You're taking the literal meaning of whore.
But yeah, her story annoys me to no limit. All those daddy issues and that "m-muh medici family" innocence and all her hot-headness (is this a word?) gives me a huge aversion to her, but this is off topic. Even though she is my anchor, I got really happy that she died.
Frauds shouldn't talk
 
Viro Veteruscy said:
My thoughts on the new stage...

You cannot grasp the true form of Double's Meat Dimension.

BlueFox said:

better theme for that hell stage
I instantly thought of that the moment I heard Gehenna's theme. Used to think the Aeon theme is kinda slow for a fighter and would fit better for a final location in a Skullgirls RPG. Had similar thoughts about Gehenna's theme at first, but hey, in the end it works and is something different.

Shoutouts to @Night Phyre, who surely is a clairvoyant and saw this stage coming way back.
 
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0/10 killed cerewaifu + squiggywaifu
 
It seems as though Sekhmet is the evil one and Eliza was probably some poor lower level worker in her time. during what ever event brought theons to where they are Sekhmet chose Eliza. This caused Eliza to realize everything she ever wanted was in her grasp and eventually Sekhmet 's thirst for supremacy and Eliza's thirst for Supremacy (which are two different ideals) melded into one over time. Also seems Eliza was envious of Lamia
Abridge version: this is what happens when you give an attention seeker power

Also what's this Samson fetish she has the thing isn't into you girl move on
 
The ammount of teasing back-story bits and cliffhangers (surprise, Marie has will strong enough to function even without the Skull Heart) in this one went off the charts. :P

Considering chances for sequel are rather low, even distastefully so.

Also, screw you Cere-fans, I finally got my revenge for her killing my neko-waifu, and got to see said waifu in a nice outfit too. :PUN:
 
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Kawalorn said:
The ammount of teasing back-story bits and cliffhangers (surprise, Marie has will strong enough to function even without the Skull Heart) in this one went off the charts. :P

Considering chances for sequel are rather low, even distastefully so.

Also, screw you Cere-fans, I finally got my revenge for her killing my neko-waifu, and got to see said waifu in a nice outfit too. :PUN:

Would you sell your waifu as a slurpee sex-slave just to get your revenge? :P

To be fair, it is a hot outfit.

With this one, it is three times that Bela dies, (Double and Peacock.)
 
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Eliza isn't just doing things for the evils. Although she clearly is a sado-masochist and seems to take great joy in inflicting pain. You do clearly get this vibe of "The world is my birthright" from her. Her motivations remind me a lot of someone like Red Skull in being totally amoral and completely without remorse but insisting that rulership is suited only for her. At the same time, she strikes me as a villain who would have some sort of twisted affection for those who showed her loyalty to the point of sycophancy. I mean I can totally see her growing attached to her headless blood doll after a few decades of breaking her.

(I notta perv.......No, really...)
 
Starry eye said:
Ok maybe its not super clear but its implied and im willing to go with that as a major theory. All we know is that they are magic beings(ish) and a lot come from the chess kingdom. Also the fact that
Theons are more powerful when synced w/ an avatar
and that they have less power b/c they are not attached to those who wield them and thus cant unlock their true potential

They arnt beings at all though just weapons with life like properties, Theons have no relation to Living Weapons. Theons and avatars are just the name of parasites and hosts before the incident Eliza caused a long time ago
 
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