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AmagicalFishy

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Valentine Double
I've wanted to get good at a fighting game for a long time. I've played a lot of Tekken, proudly achieved mediocrity in Melty Blood, and tried to get good at SSBM over the summer (I still can't wave-dash). I also played Guilty Gear because Kappa was funny (you should have seen how awesome I was at destroying the AIs—I WAS THE BEST). I bought Skullgirls yesterday and really like it. Being a student, I won't have a huge amount of time to put into the game—but I'd like to focus my efforts when I do have time, and have decided that this is the game I want to focus on.

I'm pretty bad at fighting games, I think, and this will be the second one that I try to get technically good at (the first was Smash Bros., but I did not have anyone to play with, so that was somewhat of a failed endeavour).

So here's my game plan, which will probably be updated next weekend:

1) Learn this combo specifically:
cr.lk, cr.mk, cr.hp
j.hp, ad, j.mp (3), j.hk
j.lp, j.mp (3), j.hk
s.lp,s.mp(1), s.hp xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner
Oh, yeah. I'm playing Valentine. :PUN:

2) Purge shitty habits
Prior to about sixteen minutes ago, I spammed s.lp, s.lk, s.mp, s.mk before all of my combos because then I'd get cool 40-hit combos. This really hindered my damage output and my ability to recognize and react to an opening properly. I've got to make a conscious effort to minimize light-hits before combos, and react immediately to landing one.

3) Learn more combos.
Since Valentine has weight-specific combos, it'd be good to learn as many as I can.

4) Figure out how to AD after Savage Bypass—I have no idea what the timing's like, and can't manage to pull it off a single time (I even thought it was removed when Encore came out and I was just watching an old video, but I'm watching a stream now where it happened).

I like playing against people a lot (I don't mind getting my ass beat for 100 rounds in a row). But find that playing against computers is really good practice for pulling off combos; it provides just enough pressure to train not falling apart.

Gotta start small!
 
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For the bypass deal, I think that's just a beta experiment right now, so if you're playing retail, that's possibly why you're not hitting the adc. Also, if you're looking for help on combos, you could check out the val combo thread for some help on that, but it'd probably be a better idea to learn movement and neutral with her first. Going into to training mode and dicking around with other characters can be good for you too, because you might find another character you work well with, and val benefits ALOT with an assist behind her.
 
Ah! That would explain it. Also, the assist-thing is a good idea. It seems to me that 2 fighters is an excellent advantage over one. I'm just not good enough at anything yet to start playing another (when I do, I think I'll go w/ Parasoul)
 
AmagicalFishy said:
Ah! That would explain it. Also, the assist-thing is a good idea. It seems to me that 2 fighters is an excellent advantage over one. I'm just not good enough at anything yet to start playing another (when I do, I think I'll go w/ Parasoul)
To do Savage Bypass into Savage Bypass? You don't have to ADC. Just kinda spam it out, as long as they're different versions, they'll chain.
Example: Savage Bypass [M] > [H] OR [H] > [L] etc. Remember to change the QCF side, of course
(Only in Beta, currently)
 
Alright! Since tomorrow's a holiday, I decided to be irresponsible and pay Skullgirls tonight instead of doing homework.

1) I accomplished my goal of learning that combo—and now I'm going to move onto another. I think it'll be:

c.lk, c.mk (1), c.hp,
j.hp, j.hk, ADC j.mp (3), j.hk,
j.lp, j.mp (3/[1 on bella]), j.hk, AD, j.mk, j.hk,
dash, s.lp (3), s.lk, s.mp (2), s.mk, s.hk (3) xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner

I haven't fully mastered the first combo, but I'm good enough at it that I can move onto something else that's similar, but a bit more complicated (the only thing that gets me sometimes is the s.lp after the last j.hk, but I recognize where the timing needs improvement). Oh! There's also the EKG after the bypass which I screw up pretty often.

2) I played a bunch of arcade today, which helped me practice relying on one or two confirm-hits instead of spamming the hell out of them. I've managed to actually start a combo after an average of 2 s.lp—this is a huge improvement from 3 s.lp, 1 s.lk, 6 s.mp, and 4 s.mk :PUN:. Sometimes I still go for a c.hp even though my opponent blocked my pokes. This is just due to shitty reaction time—something I've got to keep a very conscious note of.

3) After I feel really comfortable with a few combos, I'd like to start learning some good crossups (crossovers?). Maybe, in the distant future, even toy with burst bait.

4) Start looking at who I'm going to use as a 2nd character. I only plan to have two, and am considering Parasoul... but will I be able to make use of those charge moves? That's probably a long way off, anyway, but it's good to think about for now. Maybe I'll eventually get Squiggle or w/e her name is.

When I'm comfortable with my repertoire of combos and such, I'll start actively seeking people to play with (that is, outside of just searching for the occasional lobby).

Rynozilla said:
To do Savage Bypass into Savage Bypass? You don't have to ADC. Just kinda spam it out, as long as they're different versions, they'll chain.
Example: Savage Bypass [M] > [H] OR [H] > [L] etc. Remember to change the QCF side, of course
(Only in Beta, currently)
Oh, that's even better!

Should I be playing the beta instead of the retail? (I'm a Steam-player) Are there usually so few lobbies because everyone is playing beta? Or do most people challenge each other via Steam and stuff like that?
 
Your hit confirm as Val should always be a light into c.mk. That's plenty of time to react on whether or not if you should hit c.hp. If you still hit c.hp on block, cancel into lk bypass. it's safe on block, but you're at disadvantage. You can cancel into dead cross, but it's punishable by lights point blank.

You can play beta Val for fun, but the changes may or may not stick. Don't expect people to be in beta more than retail. Those who play beta are either in training mode, running a streamed tournament, or playing against friends in a private lobby. People typically create 1v1 lobbies and invite a friend.
 
AmagicalFishy said:
Should I be playing the beta instead of the retail? (I'm a Steam-player) Are there usually so few lobbies because everyone is playing beta? Or do most people challenge each other via Steam and stuff like that?
I'd say spend a majority of your time in retail since beta changes might not stick.
AmagicalFishy said:
3) After I feel really comfortable with a few combos, I'd like to start learning some good crossups (crossovers?). Maybe, in the distant future, even toy with burst bait.
Val has more crossups other than J.lk???
AmagicalFishy said:
4) Start looking at who I'm going to use as a 2nd character.
I don't really play val but I think you'd want a get-off-me assist considering she has no reversals (?) or, at least, meterless ones.
I'd consider fortune because val's going to benefit from H-fiber even if you have trouble chaining from it. Fortune's a natural anchor too and relies less from assist.
Band's really good too! Great assists and easy to learn but with unsafe moves and a playstyle leaning more to punishing mistakes. He also relies a bit more on assists than fortune.
AmagicalFishy said:
When I'm comfortable with my repertoire of combos and such, I'll start actively seeking people to play with (that is, outside of just searching for the occasional lobby).
I'd really recommend just going out and playing the moment you have a functioning universal combo that you can do 70% of the time. (A 100 hours of my playtime was me playing solo-band with st.lk st.mk j.lk j.mk air-super...) Not only does it help with learning hit confirms, it will also help you learn combos, in my opinion, faster. Plus, neutral's really THE most important thing; so practicing that's nice. The best part though is accidental discoveries, like a mispress leading to a accidental burst bait ^^
 
Worked more today on hit-confirming with just s.lp -> c.mk. I played online w/ a couple of people and got wrecked (I did much better when I was spamming light attacks instead of... you know... paying attention, but that's a bad foundation).

Most of my playing was vs. a computer—who also beat my ass.

Over the weekend I'll probably do more of the same thing, and start learning Fortune or Parasoul. (I don't have Band or any of the other new characters yet.)

How viable do you guys think it is to have a constant, large lobby open? Things seem pretty lacking in the lobby-area.
 
I've been thinking about getting a fightstick. I've always wanted one, but never have the money or the game-interest.

Doing quarter-circle [button] -> quarter-circle [button] (say, Savage Bypass -> xxEKG) is the hardest thing in the world—and I know I'm not that much of a nublet when it comes to fighting games. Currently, I claw-grab an Xbox-360 pad, and I've read mostly bad things about it. I still don't have the money, but when I do, I was thinking of getting either a Quanba Q4 or a HitBox. The latter seems really cool, but I'm not sure how much I'd like it. Choices, choices, choices!

What I am considering is mapping my keyboard to a HitBox-like scheme. I've read the whole fightstick thread here, but didn't see too much about that. Is it worth it? (I play on a laptop, so it might make things a bit more uncomfortable; I won't be able to sit on my bed w/o reaching over to the laptop). It seems like a really fun experiment.

Who knows, maybe I'll buy a shitty keyboard and forgo the HitBox. ;)

(Will I bust up my laptop keyboard slamming on my keys like that?)
 
AmagicalFishy said:
I've been thinking about getting a fightstick. I've always wanted one, but never have the money or the game-interest.

Doing quarter-circle [button] -> quarter-circle [button] (say, Savage Bypass -> xxEKG) is the hardest thing in the world—and I know I'm not that much of a nublet when it comes to fighting games. Currently, I claw-grab an Xbox-360 pad, and I've read mostly bad things about it. I still don't have the money, but when I do, I was thinking of getting either a Quanba Q4 or a HitBox. The latter seems really cool, but I'm not sure how much I'd like it. Choices, choices, choices!

What I am considering is mapping my keyboard to a HitBox-like scheme. I've read the whole fightstick thread here, but didn't see too much about that. Is it worth it? (I play on a laptop, so it might make things a bit more uncomfortable; I won't be able to sit on my bed w/o reaching over to the laptop). It seems like a really fun experiment.

Who knows, maybe I'll buy a shitty keyboard and forgo the HitBox. ;)

(Will I bust up my laptop keyboard slamming on my keys like that?)
Using keyboard is just the hardest thing on earth. Worst choice ever for a fighting game (imo). But use anything you feel you'd like.
 
One thing about Joystick vs. Hitbox is that some people (including me) find that the wrist on their "direction hand" gets sore when playing long sessions on Hitbox (after all, you [should] be moving direction-wise a lot more than you really hit buttons, so that hand gets stressed a lot harder.)
 
Oh, huh. That's not good—I kind of have sucky wrists anyway. Maybe I should just go for the joystick.

Rynozilla said:
Using keyboard is just the hardest thing on earth. Worst choice ever for a fighting game (imo). But use anything you feel you'd like.
I'm not sure if I'd like it or not; I'm just trying it to see. (What if I try it and LOVE it? :D)
 
AmagicalFishy said:
Oh, huh. That's not good—I kind of have sucky wrists anyway. Maybe I should just go for the joystick.


I'm not sure if I'd like it or not; I'm just trying it to see. (What if I try it and LOVE it? :D)
If you try it and love it, then keep using it, of course~! It's all about what makes you comfortable, which effects how you play.
 
A couple of things:

1) I've mapped my keyboard to mimic a HitBox as closely as possible. I really, really, really like it. In fact, I've only played with the keyboard for about a day—and when I tried to switch back to an XBox controller, everything felt wrong. I just like it better. This makes me want to get a HitBox, but I've a friend whose selling a modded MadKatz for $70, and I might get that instead of spending $250 on a HitBox (also, my left wrist is sore as people have mentioned and I don't want to injure it).

Today I played about 75 rounds. I think I won 2 or 3 of them—but they were pretty insightful:

2) I've got my B&B combo down except for, quite possibly, the most important part (s.lp x3 -> s.mp x2 -> s.hk x3 -> Bypass -> EKG). The s.lp often doesn't hit, so I think I'll change something such that I can finish the combo every time (it could also be my timing and what character I'm fighting: It often doesn't hit vs. Peacock or Fukua/Fillia).

3) I've also gotten much better at not spamming my hit-confirms; I do pretty well know with starting a combo after one or two hits. I think, then, I can move onto something else:

  • Learn crossups: Someone I played ~20 rounds against used Valentine for a few of them, and destroyed my face with some pretty awesome crossups (j.lk in the middle of combos that switched sides). I'll have to figure out how to do this.
  • Improve my current initiation/crossup: I've begun using j.hp as a sort of beginning move/crossup. I'd like to start using j.lp also. On that note, using high-jumps is something I need to make use of—which I have been (it works nicely). Basically:
    1. Make more use of j.hp and j.lp
    2. Effectively use high-jumps to initiate
    3. Mix up my movements more (i.e. - Sprint forward, jump over opponent, AD backwards, then initiate)
    4. Use Deathcross/Poisons more; right now I don't make much use of them at all.
  • Learn new combos: Now that I've my B&B down, I should diversify. There's one in particular that involves using Bypass to bounce someone off the corner, land, and continue the combo. I think that's awesome.
4) I had some trouble with Bella and Bella-assists. They consistently fucked me up. I have to make sure to only be near her when I attack (which is harder than it seems). Peacock, on the other hand, I actually do pretty damned well against.

I'm going to play a bit more tonight, but those were the major things.
 
AmagicalFishy said:
The s.lp often doesn't hit, so I think I'll change something such that I can finish the combo every time
what BnB are you doing? if it's the one on your 3rd post, cut out the j.hk after the j.mk. Not max damage, but more consistent.

AmagicalFishy said:
j.lk in the middle of combos that switched sides
Any where in an air chain just adc j.lk. This has been around for a while so intermediate+ players will know of it, but it's still a good low/throw 50/50.

AmagicalFishy said:
I'd like to start using j.lp also
j.lp is more of an air-to-air than a jump in tool. Sure you can use it for a delayed jump in attack, but don't forget about j.mp and j.lk for pressure. j.lk is your other jump in/crossup tool.
Also don't forget to chuck shurikens from time to time. And use j.hk as a midrange spacing tool.

AmagicalFishy said:
There's one in particular that involves using Bypass to bounce someone off the corner, land, and continue the combo.
which one are you talking about? if they OTG s.hk(x3) xx L Bypass s.lp, that's a somewhat tight link.

AmagicalFishy said:
I had some trouble with Bella and Bella-assists
what about the matchup are you having problems with? and what assists specifically?

if you could, it would help if you can post a recording of your matches.
 
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Fedora_Ninja said:
what BnB are you doing? if it's the one on your 3rd post, cut out the j.hk after the j.mk. Not max damage, but more consistent.
It's pretty much that one, yeah:
c.mk, c.hp, j.hk, AD->j.mp, j.hk, [land]
j.lp, j.mp, j.hk, AD->j.mk, j.hk, [land]
s.lp (x3), s.mp (x2), s.hk (x3), xxBypass -> xxEKG

The last s.lp is what usually fails to connect.

Sorry, whenever I said "I want to use j.lp," I actually meant j.lk---I get stuff mixed up sometimes.

Fedora_Ninja said:
which one are you talking about? if they OTG s.hk(x3) xx L Bypass s.lp, that's a somewhat tight link.
It's an OTG, but to a c.hp instead---then the combo continues.

Fedora_Ninja said:
what about the matchup are you having problems with? and what assists specifically?
Matchup-wise, I keep getting caught by her armor moves (the charge, the cock-and-load gun fist) and by her command grabs (especially Showstopper!). Assist wise, the copter is the hardest thing for me to circumvent.

Fedora_Ninja said:
if you could, it would help if you can post a recording of your matches.
I would like to, but I'm playing on a laptop that already runs pretty hot as it is. I think this would slow things down a lot, do you?

I'm going to play a few rounds now. Anyone want in?
 
Ok, so I think I've done pretty well learning the things I want to. I'm not just sure what I should work on next (I'm not saying I'm good, by the way: I still get my ass handed to me 85% of the games I play).

I think that, combo-wise, my B&B is enough. The (vague) list of things I have in mind are:
  • Learn to handle pressure from people who spam multiple resets (fuck you, Parasoul).
  • Learn to reset more than just j.lk after j.hk
  • Really master Valentine—I still feel like I'm somewhat spamming moves until I get a confirm, but I don't yet have a good grasp on when to use what. That is, I haven't classified her normals, for example, according to when I should use them.
  • I still don't fully understand how to crossup and initiate.
Should I learn a different character? Everyone who's better than me seems to be better with... well, the whole cast.

Are there any suggestions?
 
AmagicalFishy said:
snip
My 2 cents:

Keep playing solo Val until you feel like you have a solid grasp of her, and the game overall. Until you feel confident with all of the things that you're doing with one character, you probably shouldn't add another.

Learning how to handle reset pressure sort of comes with practice. When it comes down to it, most resets are either beat by downback (if they go for a low or mid) or upback (if they go for a throw, mid, or overhead.) There are a lot of left/right resets too, but again recognizing them just comes with time and practice.

You can also just mash a super during times that you think they'll reset you, but that loses to a burst bait, or them baiting your super. I wouldn't rely on mashing every time, but it's a valid way to get out of resets every so often.

So, here's a completely universal reset that ANYONE can do at the start of any ground chain: Jab, wait a few frames, then low or throw. It doesn't matter which character you play, it's a 50/50 that's worth doing.

Another completely universal one that tends to be a little more predictable is launch > air grab. It works from time to time, but intermediate players don't usually fall for it more than once in a while. Most characters can go for an air throw whenever they need to re jump in their combos, there's a few exceptions due to height and stuff, just test it out in training mode.

With Val specifically I like to do air dash j.lp, j.lk after j.hp/j.hk in my air chains, instead of just j.lk. If you hold forward it crosses up, if you hold back, it doesn't. People can mash jab/an air super or double jump out of it, but trust me it's still a good tool (A lot of things in this game can be beat out rather easily, that doesn't mean that people do it often!)

Another good thing to learn is to fast fall j.mk: if you're low enough to the ground and press j.hp before the second hit of j.mk, then you will drop the combo, and fall to the ground faster than normal. You can then go for a mixup when they land slightly after you.
With some air chains you'll actually land fast enough to dash under light characters for a crossunder.
EX: (launch > j.hp, adc j.mp (1), j.hp,
rejump j.lp, j.hp adc j.mk fast fall,
dash under)

Hope that this helps a little bit!
 
That helped a lot! Thank you. I will start practicing these things.

Also... what in the name of god does one do when one's opponent spams assists w/ armor? I feel as if all points that I could otherwise punish someone are just filled in by an invulnerable assist jumping in and throwing a punch.
 
AmagicalFishy said:
That helped a lot! Thank you. I will start practicing these things.

Also... what in the name of god does one do when one's opponent spams assists w/ armor? I feel as if all points that I could otherwise punish someone are just filled in by an invulnerable assist jumping in and throwing a punch.
If you throw someone you become invincible during the throw animation. Sweep will also break assists armor. If it's an invincible assist then you either need to just block it, avoid it, or throw them before it hits you.
 
Damn. Worst case scenario, haha.

I've been fighting a lot of people (mostly Fukuas and Filias) who just spam the hell out of moves. No rhyme or reason.

This makes it easy to exploit them. I can basically randomly throw out a scalpel special from across the stage and it will hit.

On the other hand, whenever they get up close, I don't know what the hell to do. In fact, if these guys actually managed to combo off of all of their hit confirms, I'd be fucked. This leads me to the conclusion that I don't know how to counter. I'll need to work more on push-blocking, exploiting my free-frames, green-flashes, etc.
 
Oh wait you have a training Diary

I hope you've been utilizing the stuff I showed you yesterday.
But just remember two things when you play Val. when to reset and when to cross up and that's basically all you need to know to play val effectively. Oh and her neutral. Oh and her vial load setups. Oh and her oki setups. Oh and thats about it........OH!!!!!!
 
Haha. I have been—especially the Double stuff.

I'm learning a Barrel B&B for Double now, now that I have a pretty good grasp on her moveset.
 
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