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Where's the Twerk in here? FukuaTwerkTeam learns a lesson in git gud

I like her low/throw mixup. She has decent mobility, has some cross setups and some fun stuff to do, like c.lk c.mp j.hk fireball c.lk tender embrace.
 
Colossi said:
I like her low/throw mixup. She has decent mobility, has some cross setups and some fun stuff to do, like c.lk c.mp j.hk fireball c.lk tender embrace.
she's not bella and some setups are beaten by upback. i do not understand but provide your setups and i'll tell you how they're garbage (not all of them are)
 
They are garbage anyway and most are beaten by neutral jump.
 
<Claws>: i can't drop her
<FakeangeL>:
<alexpi_work>: too much love?
<Claws>: Put in waaaaaaaay too much damn work
<Claws>: so ye
<MrPeck-work>: dont drop her then! she's cool
<Claws>: Must......Make.....H shadow.....Work.
<FakeangeL>: #nah
<Claws>: WAIT
<MrPeck-work>: make the other stuff work instead
<Claws>: brainstorm idea
<alexpi_work>: i guess if you switched to hairball assist, you can do some weird block string gimmicks
<MrPeck-work>: the 4-5x lows and the command throws
<Claws>: H shadow is 30 F
<Claws>: s.hp......13f?
<Claws>: or 11F?
<MrPeck-work>: filia's is 12
<Claws>: launch arc......*TEST*
<MrPeck-work>: dont know about fukua
<MrPeck-work>: also for what it's worth, i think the key to making fukua's standard mixups work is the fact that she can chain a million lows in a row and cancel any of them into a command throw
<MrPeck-work>: not the fact that she has a slow overhead
<Claws>: slow overhead is like pummel horse.
<Claws>: which is kinda coo
<MrPeck-work>: i guess i kind of said the same thing twice there. im tired.
<MrPeck-work>: oh hey it's 5:30, i can go home, i should do that
<Claws>: YES
<Claws>: this might work
<Claws>: i might have lost one of my favorite neutral tools but i'll damn sure find a use for it
<MrPeck-work>: good luck! also brb going home
<IsaVulpes>: is pummel horse even slow
<Claws>: not as slow as H shadow
<Claws>: but people upback like twits in beta so it doesn't matter?
<alexpi_work>: man, i was playing a guy in beta last night, all i did was either low frame traps or air throw
<IsaVulpes>: do they
<IsaVulpes>: i didnt really notice
<alexpi_work>: it worked every damn time
<Claws>: ^
<FakeangeL>: fast enough for s.hp pummel horse to be a really easy cancel
<IsaVulpes>: they do it more in neutral but why would u do pummel horse / h shadow in neutral
<Claws>: people run and duck low
<Claws>: all the time
<Claws>: and H shadow 9/10 caught them
<Claws>: for like no reason
<FakeangeL>: I do pummel horse during people's wake up
<FakeangeL>: :^>
<IsaVulpes>: pummel is apparently 25f
<IsaVulpes>: It doesnt feel that slow I dnno
<Claws>: LOL
<Butts>: I would imagine as an oki tool and being of high advantage a meaty H shadow would go a long way
<Claws>: pushblock
<Claws>: *problem solved*
<Butts>: Oh no you mean the thing you can do to everything?
<IsaVulpes>: cant pushblock while you are stuck in a cerecopter
<Claws>: but frames wouldn't matter
<Claws>: why not just use cerecopter?
<Claws>: like alone
<IsaVulpes>: ..........?
<Claws>: cause like the thing is this "oki" you now can just low block, double check to see the hand and then switch block.
<Butts>: Golly it's like fukua doesn't have fireballs or something when she gets pushblocked
<Claws>: so you might as well do no mixup.
<Claws>: totally butts she doesn't have a fireball or something
<Butts>: It's like assists don't exist either
<Butts>: What ever shall fukua do
<Claws>: your point?
<Butts>: You have existing options, try them
<Claws>: good point. moving on.
<Butts>: Or keep your head up your ass either way I tried.
<Claws>: yes you did.
<Claws>: so the thing is. you might as well just deploy copter Then set up low/throw
<IsaVulpes>: you cant throw while they are blocking copter
<IsaVulpes>: you can overhead them while they do
<Claws>: i've tried that idea
<Claws>: both L clone and H clone.
<Claws>: H clone i've watched guys do the low block and then switched block
<Claws>: i even went to meaty both both and more often than not L worked a lot more than it should have.
<IsaVulpes>: uh how are you timing it
<IsaVulpes>: to see the opponent switch guard
<Claws>: first time i just did it while i deployed copter when they got up on purpose.
<Claws>: then i half-assed meatied it on purpose with the L shadow the next time.
<Claws>: by then i started testing out the meaty and looked in the beta replays
<Claws>: https://imgur.com/uHD4NvC NSFW
<FakeangeL>: anyone wanna fite
<Claws>: i can fite

nope still can't drop her.
 
<Claws>: how in the world did you get hit by overhead shadow?
<FakeangeL>: which one
<Claws>: the JUDO CHOP
<Claws>: HIYAH
<Midiman>: *points down*
<FakeangeL>: no shit
<Midiman>: slap
<FakeangeL>: you are gonna have to be more specific of which time
<Claws>: man.
<Claws>: one of them was just dead up close
<FakeangeL>: that one?
<FakeangeL>: it was because you only threw either mid or low
<Claws>: the other one you dashed up and i didn't see anything due to rollbacks
<FakeangeL>: by the time I notived that it was high, I was already trained
<Midiman>: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25451244 pocollaaaa
<Claws>: copying and pasting
 
man watch me throw out mort drop like i don't give a fuck and it hits on round start vs big band so much

cry more about a good move
 
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Use it in combos? Not all of fukuas tools need good to great neutral/pressure to be useful. Try assist mixups where you mix in lk and hk shadow. Try using the bounce to form weird crossunder/fake crossunder setups. Try more things, it doest have to be godlike, just not useless.
 
cloudKing211 said:
Use it in combos? Not all of fukuas tools need good to great neutral/pressure to be useful. Try assist mixups where you mix in lk and hk shadow. Try using the bounce to form weird crossunder/fake crossunder setups. Try more things, it doest have to be godlike, just not useless.


its PREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTYYYYY USELESS my dude. i dunno mah dude but its like what do with this move naw mean?


MY reply is summed up caio's post.

CaioLugon said:
make it do more damage then

BUT WHATEVER.

she's got a gimped toolset and now i will proceed to tbag any and EVERY anti-fukua player i ever meet.

INFUCKINGCREDIBLE i tell ya wot.
 
I use H shadow in my combos, c'mon.
 
It's kinda basic, but if you can make someone block H shadow up close then you get a free fuzzy guard high/low setup with j.LP/c.LK. This was recorded in the beta:


It can be beaten with a perfectly timed pushblock into absolute guard, but maybe there are gimmicks to get around that. Like cancelling into your level 5 command grab just before the shadow hits them.
 
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My lunch break ended so I can't properly test how viable that setup is, but if you're still looking for ways to make H shadow useful here's what I'd try next:

If you can make someone block H shadow up close on the ground, they either have to eat the high/low fuzzy mixup or immediately pushblock and absolute guard. The next thing to test would be whether or not you can continue your pressure if your opponent immediately pushblocks: I'd try telling the dummy to pushblock the first hit and hold upback As Reversal, and then I'd run forward immediately after calling H shadow to see if I can get close enough to catch their post-pushblock jump attempt with c.LK.

If all that works then it's not a complete gimmick even if your opponent is paying attention to what's happening, so all you need to do is find a way to get your opponent to block H shadow up close. You can probably do that after lockdown assists and stuff, I guess.

And if it fails, and H shadow can't be used to set up pressure, you can still use it when you've conditioned your opponent to expect something else. Or on a more basic level, you could just use it as a tool to transition from up-close pressure to zoning. Make them block it, then use its huge frame advantage to back off and throw some fireballs. This is even better if you've taught them to pushblock your H shadow every time.
 
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@Mr Peck the main problem with the shadow is that it 30F if ANY move of fukua is 30F for zoning i advise not using it. this doesn't even to be a defensive tool but rather "lol pushblock me you twit" its so unintuitive. Meanwhile eliza can cross up j.lk j.hp even IF you block the j.lk you're forced to pushblock early and eliza gets to stay in your face.

it was one thing when mike took out invinci on drill(which i didn't even care THAT hard). its another to deem a move "oh cause its massively plus" well any move is technically plus since you're pushblock but does that mean its favorable? i was talking colossi and the ONLY way i can see fukua getting H shadow back to its proper place is if 15F recovery was placed back into it and THAT i will not stand for.

Fireball does not come back instantly on hit so now while the person is mid close range can i throw out M shadow? no i'll get whacked. do i challenge A2A? i have a chance of getting air grabbed.

if there was any character CLOSELY comparable it would be double. but atleast fukua has some good buttons i guess. but neutral is rough both for offensive and defensive. IF this change is to stay i'm forced to rewrite the compendium from the ground up and will most likely advise not to pick up fukua. Only reason i'm staying is because this is MY character.

@dragonos451
Let me answer YOUR SILLY question with a hypothetical.
Imagine fake kanchou, and tumble run not having armor and imagine glide was your only option. In fact don't answer that cause the response i expect from you will be no different.

TL;DR NO one has to really respect her. (say j.hk and j.lp i dare you). Now you may think this is silly BUT TO ME and even other players this is a overnerf. BUT w.e. i've stopped trying to voice my opinion in beta discussion and just eat the fact that she's left with a move that'll see no use other than combos.

s.hp, H shadow causes chicken block ergo i can go low for the most part and it seemed to be a success.

H shadow encourages mashing, poking and buttons to be pressed.

Eliza against fukua has turned into eliza's favor which seems to be a very very very very bad matchup

Bella is more or less the same? still somewhat in bella's favor just rarely any bella's actually think

Edit: while my post are usually snarky. I'm just very very frustrated and have no idea what non fukua players are trying to tell me. whenever i put it on the battlefield it seems to fall through the cracks.
I would try to be levelheaded with the changes but literally i would not understand why fukua gets the slowest overhead? especially with subpar range. and while you guys say "Fukua is finnne" i'm here asking "what do you even know about this character?" like what exactly if fine about waiting for a fireball to return even IF you hit?

i would gladly have a 30F overhead if fireball immediately returned if i hit and have return slowly if i whiffed the fireball.
 
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What question are you talking about?
 
I'm home from work! It seems like H shadow has more than enough frame advantage for you to get in and pressure them on block, even if they try to pushblock you away:


So if you treat H shadow as something that forces them to block standing while you continue your pressure, and less of a fast overhead, it seems useful. Just make them block it, run at them, and see what they do.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
@Mr Peck

TL;DR NO one has to really respect her. (say j.hk and j.lp i dare you).

j.hk and j.lp. (Lel get rekt ;)

Everyone should respect the j.lp whiff cancel j.hk (nice bait though). Bc if it whiffs and then j.hk is in range for their block, fukua gets an instant mixup, or at the least pressure. If not do fireball, double jump, land and move forward or back, or use s.hk to reposition. Also j.lp is a high priority, decently active, and chains into j.hk making confirms with ease. The only reason its no longer dumb is bc j.lp doesnt cause preblock, but that doesnt stop it from being one of the best anti air tools that the cast has. Not to mention every other tool she has. I respect fukua, maybe you should too

She now has more situational specials and almost none have an overlapping purpose anymore. Just play her and get better Thats all anyone can do. Its not like she is Roll or Servebot tier
 
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Or drop her. But that's not an option. Though your input didnt offer any insight. i guess i cant stop you from posting here. But i appreciate the thought in helping.

Edit: going to make a beta fukua guide just in case she changes again
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
Or drop her. But that's not an option. Though your input didnt offer any insight. i guess i cant stop you from posting here. But i appreciate the thought in helping.
Uh I gave reasons for why j.lp and j.hk need to be respected, something you believe fukua does not get. My input is that with the preblock change, fukua players need to learn more synergy with their teammates beyond "oh assist to help me in and then free mixup", into "how can my teammates help me in neutral, combos, setups, and resets. Before from almost half screen away, j.lp (causes preblock) + assist to keep them down meant that fukua could force the opponent to respect every tool she had at once. Not from certain distances, anywhere. L shadow, M shadow, H shadow, drill + assist, s.hk kara cancel, fireball, many more. Were able to be done from almost half screen, and keep the opponent in hitstun long enough to run up and low/throw. She can still do this, just with her effective range limited to close up and far away, and m shadow still allows a run in. Mid range is what got hit the most, and is probably adaptable. Maybe I overestimate her, but she is far from bad. So use this opportunity to learn your character more.
 
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Interesting about j.lp now when did mike change that?
Tis fine if you think she isnt bad. Just like i think she's just a step above double and nothing else. lets get this clear i know what jlp can do i know what jhk can do. But thats it? And i'm talking from 1v1 perspective.
again thanks for the hidden tip however Do you have anything else? Like say a video? I dont expect much out of words especially.....ok i'm stopping and will let it rock. There are reasons why i say she's terrible and not even just the overhead shadow. also i hate the preblock for some reasons as well but w.e makes the game better. *spits on the ground* anything ELSE should i look at in this character. Since i'm the only one ever in training mode SOLO that looks for things.

Edit: you over estimate her and the fact you used to get frustrated by the matchup had me laughing. in fenster's case i can understand but val the upbacking ninja. lmfao wow man. IMPRESS ME

double edit: oh you meant the shitty upback change. Splendid
 
Mike Z never changed j.lp its been its good ol' self for its duration. I mention many times the reliability and the utility that j.lp and j.hk have, and then listed combinations of followups and situations, though definitely not comprehensive, are more than enough to show that fukuas tools, both old and current have good use at all ranges, and that the changes made it so all her tools had specific uses rather than overlapping ones. Her damage was nerfed because of the ease of confirms and ease of her optimized combos.

Dreamepitaph said:
lets get this clear i know what jlp can do i know what jhk can do. But thats it? And i'm talking from 1v1 perspective. Again thanks for the hidden tip however Do you have anything else? Like say a video? I dont expect much out of words especially.....ok i'm stopping and will let it rock. There are reasons why i say she's terrible and not even just the overhead shadow. also i hate the preblock for some reasons as well but w.e makes the game better. *spits on the ground* anything ELSE should i look at in this character.

What does this paragraph even mean? What I gathered is " I have reasons I neglect to share and that I believe that she is now second worst bc I said so. Also ignoring everything you said about why fukua still has great neutral AND Setplay, Ill ask is there anything else to convince me she is good". The no air preblock has had the little side effect of allowing characters to anti air with their ANTIAIR aerials, heaven forbid we allow that and disallow silly preblock for eternity setups bc boo hoo "pseudo nerfs". Why do I need to show a video of tools that You probably know about, or at least can infer from my post, bc you PLAY THE CHARACTER. What have I said wrong? Call me out on what I do or say wrong, not pass off what I say as if its not enough to show fukua doesn not suck.

Dreamepitaph said:
And i'm talking from 1v1 perspective.

Haven't most players agreed that 1v1 matchups in this game are not the most important factors on why a character is better, rather how well characters synergize with each other and how much their weaknesses are covered and their strengths are highlighted?

Dreamepitaph said:
Since i'm the only one ever in training mode SOLO that looks for things.

Wow I wonder what Zidiane, Dragonos, Ninja-Nutria, Mul-Nim, Flotilla, and fenster do with their solos? Maybe play quick match until their eyes bleed? Play only play 2 or 3 char teams in training mode? What the hell have they been doing? Probably training their solos, you know, their mains.

Dreamepitaph said:
Edit: you over estimate her and the fact you used to get frustrated by the matchup had me laughing. in fenster's case i can understand but val the upbacking ninja. lmfao wow man. IMPRESS ME

This is the main reason why Im sorta (really) pissed at your comment. To me this is clearly a jab at my skills (I hope they exist), bc every time we play "laggirls" (come on its online) you get salty at my val upbacking (when im actually just jumping in), and button pressing (you know baiting is a major thing in this game). Also, the reason I dont like the matchup is not bc its bad for val, but for me. I like playing val from above, and fukua has more than a few tools that hinder my ability to play as I like to. So please stop insulting me as a player and discuss your character correctly or frankly people will stop caring about your opinions.

You're a chill dude, and I love how you play, but the bitching is getting really irritating.



Man am I tired or what
Edit: Thanks for the auto correct nuts, you were a great help :)
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
the ONLY way i can see fukua getting H shadow back to its proper place is if 15F recovery was placed back into it and THAT i will not stand for.

Define "proper place" for each of Fukua's shadows. I'm curious to see what you think here.

TL;DR NO one has to really respect her. (say j.hk and j.lp i dare you).

I like that you say no one has to respect her, and then in the same breath mention the very two moves she uses to disrespect every other air-to-air in the game outside of Para jLP, Double jLK, and Squigly jLK.
 
I have a personal vendetta with Fukua just because of how herp derp she was in the past, like converting off a fireball from ridiculous distances into full combos.

As she is now, I think she's a pretty average character. Not great, but not necessarily bad. She can be rather good at controlling space in conjuncture with an assist. IMO she is supposed to be played in a manner where you pester the opponent with projectiles until they make mistakes where you can get them with your pretty good buttons. She might not be the mixup queen you want her to be, but she can do stuff other than get in your face.

Her best mixup might just be low/throw, but its still a pretty good tool to have considering she is the only character that can chain 2 c.LK. Even if converting off her command grab costs meter, she still has a number of resets she can go into to make that throw+meter be something to have to worry about. Not even Cerebella, who is the token grappler of the game, can go into a full combo off close command grab+meter without an assist or being near a wall. She can also set up some pretty decent oki on her own.

You make it out to seem like you really detest her recently. At this point you can either buckle down and really explore all your options (this includes her synergy with assists/DHCs) or stop forcing yourself to use her if you really don't like playing her.
 
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