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assist crossup

Pickles

Pickles

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Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
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Filia Double Painwheel
I know (well think I know anyway) that you can make a 50/50 crossup by calling assist and then switching sides, it's a common technique with a lot of high level players...so why doesn't this work?


I've tried it multiple times trying to stagger it and it doesn't work any time so I don't think it's my timing. What's the secret?
 
have you tried flesh stepping instead??
 
 
Are you sure it's not crossing up? The crossup sparks don't always work. Did you try setting up the dummy to do the crossup and try blocking it yourself?
 
I think the way cross-up detection works is that he game checks to see if you started an attack on one side and hit on the other, if you do ground H blitzer in front of the oponnent from one side, do 6K and 1K and the last hit connects you'll trigger the spark even though it takes a pretty long time to actually hit. That probably doesn't happen from hits from an assist, and since the point character didn't do an attack the spark didn't trigger.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Are you sure it's not crossing up? The crossup sparks don't always work. Did you try setting up the dummy to do the crossup and try blocking it yourself?

Tried this, it doesn't cross up, I can hold away from double and block the updo that's hitting behind me.

CaioLugon said:
I think the way cross-up detection works is that he game checks to see if you started an attack on one side and hit on the other, if you do ground H blitzer in front of the oponnent from one side, do 6K and 1K and the last hit connects you'll trigger the spark even though it takes a pretty long time to actually hit. That probably doesn't happen from hits from an assist, and since the point character didn't do an attack the spark didn't trigger.

Do I have to hit with an attack? I tried doing the same setup but with a (whiffed because the dummy was still airborne) jab from double when the updo hit and it still didn't cross up. It might be something with the assist because you can do double j.lp j.mk j.hk and flesh step after landing and the rest of the hits from j.hk will cross up.
 
Pickles said:
Tried this, it doesn't cross up, I can hold away from double and block the updo that's hitting behind me.
Which way are you expecting it to hit? You always block away from the point character in games like this.

So assist crossups work, but it's more of a "cross them up as your assist hits them" thing. Not a "do they block your point character or block your assist" thing.
 
Mr Peck said:
Which way are you expecting it to hit? You always block away from the point character in games like this.

So assist crossups work, but it's more of a "cross them up as your assist hits them" thing. Not a "do they block your point character or block your assist" thing.

I was trying to make something to prove you wrong but maybe I can't? The thing I mentioned to caio (double j.lp j.mk j.hk and flesh step after landing and the rest of the hits from j.hk will cross up) I tried to have the dummy record and then try to block it myself by holding away from where double ends up after the flesh step, and it still blocks. I have a suspicion that by holding back I'm moving far enough that avery is no longer crossing up so I tried just tapping back when avery would hit but it's hard to tell if I'm actually still being hit or if I'm just not blocking at the right time. But if it's true that you can always block everything by holding away from the point character than why do things like sage does where he calls LnL and then sideswitch? It's not a 50-50 if you only have to block one side.
 
You always have to block away from the point character, trust me. As for sage calling lock n load and switching sides, if he's calling the assist so late that it hits way after he's crossed under, he's just using it to make his point character safe after they do whichever mixup they went for (e.g. fast crossunder drill or command throw).
 
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Good to know, thanks
 
Pickles said:
But if it's true that you can always block everything by holding away from the point character than why do things like sage does where he calls LnL and then sideswitch? It's not a 50-50 if you only have to block one side.
This is what I say to myself every time that reset hits me
 
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Pickles said:
Good to know, thanks
No problem! So assist crossups still exist, but their purpose is to let you hit with a crossup when your character wouldn't normally be able to do it e.g. "her Filia jumped over me, airdashed backwards, then immediately hairballed back over my head while an assist hit me in the face". Or the thing you did with flesh step.
 
Last edited:
Oh that's what this is about? I thought you were saying the problem was that the sparks weren't appearing, the cross-up DOES work and you have to block away from the point character, but the current training mode won't show you that for the reason I mentioned before (probably).
 
CaioLugon said:
Oh that's what this is about? I thought you were saying the problem was that the sparks weren't appearing, the cross-up DOES work and you have to block away from the point character, but the current training mode won't show you that for the reason I mentioned before (probably).

Sorry for the confusion I think? I'm not really sure what you're talking about now. I had thought that for it to be a "crossup" then you would have to be blocking the side the assist was called on, so if you call assist, switch sides, and the opponent can block the assist by holding towards it (i.e. away from point) then it's not crossing up.

edit:

Mr Peck said:
So assist crossups still exist, but their purpose is to let you hit with a crossup when your character wouldn't normally be able to do it e.g. "her Filia jumped over me, airdashed backwards, then immediately hairballed back over my head while an assist hit me in the face". Or the thing you did with flesh step.

so if i'm reading it right, it's not that you're hitting them on the other side and forcing them to hold towards you to block the assist, it's that you're just making them confused about what side you're going to be on when the assist hits?
 
Pickles said:
so if i'm reading it right, it's not that you're hitting them on the other side and forcing them to hold towards you to block the assist, it's that you're just making them confused about what side you're going to be on when the assist hits?
Yeah that's exactly it.
 
Crossup sparks just display when the attack is facing backward, i.e. if you are facing away from them when you hit them. That's a regular SF2 crossup.
There isn't any timer for like "they turned around within 15f of being hit" (that's how I initially tried it and it had lots of problems).
If you move to the other side and then hit them normally, or hit with an assist that is facing them even if you are on the other side, you will not get a crossup spark.

In the initial video, Parasoul has to block by holding Right (away from Double). That is an assist crossup, because until Double dashed underneath she'd have had to block Double by holding Left.
They do not having to hold toward Double to block Filia because that requirement leads to unblockables - that's how Urien's Aegis Reflector setups in 3s work.

Make sense?
 
Mike_Z said:
They do not having to hold toward Double to block Filia because that requirement leads to unblockables - that's how Urien's Aegis Reflector setups in 3s work.

Before today (when I thought you had to hold towards the point to block an assist on the other side) I thought the way it wasn't unblockable was due to absolute guard (i.e. getting hit left/right on the same frame wouldn't be unblockable it would just be a guess).

Mike_Z said:
Make sense?

It does now, thanks.
 
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