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Dormoxx's Diary of Learnings.

dormoxx

dormoxx

Just Fly Cancel
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dormoxx
Painwheel Painwheel Painwheel
Heya peeps!

Skullgirls is my first fighter that I'm actually taking the time to learn (rather than mash buttons and hope for victory). I've played around the the majority of the cast and finally decided to learn Painwheel. While I understand that she's technically the most difficult to learn, especially for a beginner (the flight cancels and whatnot), she's by far my favorite of the cast. Plus, not many people play her so I have to advantage of my opponents not fully understanding the matchup :D.

Setup:
Skullgirls PC
Qanba Q1 with Gamerfinger mechanical buttons for LP MP HP, LK MK HK and stock assist buttons. I plan on upgrading the stick to a Hori Hayabusa. The stock stick is starting to creak and it's getting really annoying <_>.


General:
-While I understand the importance of mixups I never seem to do them in a real match. I probably just need to learn which of PW's moves hit high vs the ones that hit low. And learn a mixup string, too.
-I'm meh at blocking. I have a bad habit of not pushblocking and not changing my block stance.
-I abuse the shit out of charged j.HP in neutral, usually flight canceling out if I'm not near the opponent.
-I don't use my kicks anywhere near enough. This is especially true with the jumping kicks.
-There have been many times where I though I hit the opponent a few times, supered, just to realize 'Oh, they're blocking now. Shit. That's a free punish'.
-When I'm playing a team, I raw tag way too much. Most of it's unsafe, but there are some times where I get a safe raw tag.
-Bad habit of holding down when I'm going for my basic combo (below) and it messes it up. Need to work on execution of my stick hand.
-I understand the basics of neutral, but am not able to put it into play. Just need to work on memorizing what moves are good for neutral vs what aren't.
-When I try to grab, I get a LP or LK instead. Just need to work on synchronizing the button press.
-Most of the time, my snapbacks usually get blocked even after I hit the opponent a few times before.
-And most likely a lot more that I can't think of right now. I'll start recording my matches to post on this Diary.

Painwheel:
-Right now I'm working on being able to flight cancel in combos. I've been practicing a beginner combo I learned from this video.
c.LK, c.MK, HP, xxFly, 3j.LK, c.MK, HP xxLK Buer, xxDeathcrawl. My problem points are:
1: Totally missing the cancel window for xxFly. (This is the problem that happens the least)
2: Going from xxFly into the 3j.LK. I think I'm inputting the down-forward command too early so I land before the j.LK comes out.
3: When I connect with the 3j.LK, linking it to c.MK. That's just a timing issue, I believe. I'm so used to going straight from one button to the next with the rest of the cast.

Quick Update: I'm hitting the beginner combo a lot more consistently in training. I'm still not hitting it 100% of the time, but it's a lot better. Something clicked on the timing.

That beginner combo is one part of a BnB the video I linked showed. The intermediate version goes:
c.LK, c.MK, HP, xxFly, 3j.LK, c.MK, HP xxLK Buer, xxFly, j.LP, j.LK, MP, j.MP(x4), j.HP(x3), j.HK(x4ish), xxThresher.

The full BnB he showed goes:
c.LK, c.MK, HP, xxFly, 3j.LK, c.MK, HP xxLK Buer, xxFly, j.LP, j.LK, MP, j.MP(x4), j.HP(x3), j.HK(x4ish), LP, LK, c.MP, HP, xxLK Buer, xxDeathcrawl.

That's about all I can think of for this first post. Any and all comments/advice is greatly appreciated. And if there are any good Painwheel players out there willing to help a beginner, I would love it if you added me on Steam. I'm always looking to improve! :D
 
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Video of some matches I played today: (I didn't include the complete stomps, as I don't think I can really comment on what I can improve on those besides just get better)

Some thing I noticed watching back over:
Do better at preforming my combos against real people.
Learn different ways to deal with corner pressure, rather than just relying on Hatred Guard and grabs. What else can I do?
Better execution. There were many times I did Stingers (or something else) instead of Buer.
Make more use of my anti-airs (MP and HK, correct?)
I did decently with my snapbacks. :D
Grabbing at the wrong times.
Hit confirming into Supers. Didn't whiff much, but still.
Charging Hatred Guard moves at the wrong times. I get punished a lot for it. Flight cancel out.
Getting flight on command. There were many times I just jumped and did a kick.
Flight canceling more out of my charged j.HP to make it safer.
Back out and going back to footsies when I get blocked a few times. Playing too aggressive I think.
Learn some damn mixups.
Learn to combo off of LK Buer.

​
Update:
Met a really good Painwheel player today on Steam, going to write some tips he gave me down here.

-Too greedy with Hatred Guard, only use it when I know I can get away with it. Use it for burst baits to keep up the pressure or reset damage scaling.
-If my hits are being blocked flight cancel and look for points where they may not be blocking. Flight is your friend!
-Light Pinion Dash is a good assist to keep the pressure up. Light Pinion Dash is good for tricking your opponent into thinking that they are able to counterattack when they actually can't.
-Concentrate on input timing.
-Improve ground game. I have trouble with Big Band.
-When dealing with rushdown characters, open up with j.MP. It's a button I rarely use.
-Flight Cancel from j.MP to j.MK when j.MP is blocked.
-Resets, resets, resets. Learn how to reset.
-Be more aggressive with Painwheel.
-Cater combos from what the opponent is doing. Probably gonna take a bit to learn how to this one, but it's on the list.
-When pressured in the corner, pushblock, well timed grabs and flight are really good.

​
 
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Wow. Looking at the video in the reply above, I can tell I've improved hella much. From the lists above:
-My comboing against really people has gotten a LOT better. I'm playing more aggressive and it's showing.
-Doing better in the corner, but still have some trouble.
-My execution frankly has been shit the past few days. I don't know what's going on. I mean it's better than it is in the video above, but something's not right. I'm getting buers when I- mean to FC, not FCing sometimes, etc etc.
-Flying a lot more when I need to / anti-airing from the air is okay.
-Snapbacks are better.
-I'm confirming into my supers :D.
-Still learning, but fly canceling out of HG charge more.
-Playing aggressively has been winning me games, so the point about playing too aggressive is moot.
-Have a few mixups/resets under my belt.

-Learning to use HG more effectively.
-Learning how to deal with BB's shit more.
-Using j.MP a LOT more. :D
-As mentioned before, I've got a few resets under my belt. I need to add more because they get predictable in longer sets.
-PUSHBLOCK. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DORMOXX, IT'S NOT THAT HARD.
​
I've got a video uploading of me doing some QMs. However, I feel like I was matched up against mostly new players because of the recent sale. I'll also link my Get Good matches.

Get Good Matches (Just a notice, I've dropped Bella because she just isn't my playstyle. I picked her up for a bit because I though she would be easy damage, haha.My intended team is Painwheel(L Pinion Dash)/Double(M Bomber)/Big Band(M A Train):
My only regret from the entire match set is the DHC in the third match after I kill Bella. I was doing so well with Painwheel, so I don't know why I did it. Nerves probably.

My matches start at 51:03. I couldn't link the video at a specific time for some reason. <_>

Matches VS QM Peeps:

List of things to learn/improve on: (*High Priority)
*Corner combo, hatred install combo, new resets and a burst bait or two with Painwheel. Armoring through burst is just 2 gud.
*Improve blocking.
Assist calling.
Use dash more to mixup my movement.
*Fly cancel j.MP into j.MK on connect or block. Fly cancel a LOT more.
*Work on spacing in neutral and when I drop combos (instead of going back in pressing buttons).

​
I should be ordering a Hitbox in the next few weeks. Can't wait. :D
 
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Yo buddy. Here's some tips from me.

-You wake up with flying a lot. I love flying, i'm sure you do too, but it isn't always the best idea. You tend to do it when you tech backwards or try to get breathing space. Any meaty is going to stuff it pretty much I think. Just be aware where the opponent is before choosing to fly.
-I don't remember you pressing the assist button at all in the Get Good Matches. Get used to pressing it even if it gets punished. Amazing button with a flying Painwheel. IMO the job of an assist is to make the opponent block.
-I catch you with chairless j.hp with my beowulf. No hatred guard is going to stop me from hitting you with it. Beowulf is however slow. I'm sure you can maneuver away and make me whiff it.
-To play against Big Band, you need to learn to press less buttons in neutral game. It's so easy for big band to catch you with brass knuckles/a train. I don't know anything about PW vs BB, but I have trouble vsing BB with Beowulf because I press too many buttons at times.

That's all I can think of for now. That reminds me. I need to write all the things I need to work on.
 
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Kyugetsuki said:
Y
-To play against Big Band, you need to learn to press less buttons in neutral game. It's so easy for big band to catch you with brass knuckles/a train. I don't know anything about PW vs BB, but I have trouble vsing BB with Beowulf because I press too many buttons at times.

Actually, PW is one of the few characters that can press lots of buttons vs BB as long was you play a little smart. BB has trouble dealing with PW doing jMP, so just learn how to space that button a little and you'll do fine for a while.

From your Get Good matches, I'd mostly just say you missed your punish opportunities when they were in your face, especially against bella. Whenever you block bella tag or Battle butt, just start a combo from cLK instead of going for all the weird things you were doing there. It applied to the QM matches too.

Also near the end of the QM matches, you started randomly tagging a lot mid combo? Even for snapbacks, that was weird since you weren't in good position most of the time for those.
 
fenster said:
Actually, PW is one of the few characters that can press lots of buttons vs BB as long was you play a little smart. BB has trouble dealing with PW doing jMP, so just learn how to space that button a little and you'll do fine for a while.
Noted. Thanks

fenster said:
From your Get Good matches, I'd mostly just say you missed your punish opportunities when they were in your face, especially against bella. Whenever you block bella tag or Battle butt, just start a combo from cLK instead of going for all the weird things you were doing there. It applied to the QM matches too.

Also near the end of the QM matches, you started randomly tagging a lot mid combo? Even for snapbacks, that was weird since you weren't in good position most of the time for those.
I think this came down to nerves and playing Bella, whom I'm not comfortable with in the slightest.

Edit: Yeah, now that I rewatch it, most if them were probably for snaps but I didn't input it properly. I wanted to get rid of the other guy's red health, what can I say? :P
 
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I've done some researching and fooling around the past couple days looking for what team I should play. While I love the damage from Solowheel, I don't think it will be viable long term as I (and the community) get better. Plus, the game is balanced around teams. Today I played around with Double and while her buttons are kind of strange to me (as in there are specific buttons for specific situations and some buttons are never used [correct me if I'm wrong here]), I can't deny the synergy with Painwheel. L Pinion -> Flesh Step has gotten me basically free damage quite a few times and I've only started play her in matches today. I really think I'm going to be using Double as my anchor.

Edit: I don't like Double. She's really weird. Having S.HP have a sliding knockdown is just too strange for me.
*x/Painwheel/Double*
PW/Beo/X? Maybe Eliza? or Big Band? I really like him, I'd just have to get used to the playstyle.

Other possible team mates (*Synergies and whatnot*):
  • Filia: I'm complete ass at instant air dashing and I don't really like her short reach or her character/personality really. Plus, she's a bit too fast for my hands to deal with, haha. I do love how ridiculously reset heavy she is, though.
  • Big Band: While I fucking LOVE M A-Train assist, he's too big and way too slow for my play style. I find him hard to play. His combos are screen position specific, and his lows don't reach that far, but his other tools take up almost the entire god damn screen. Haha.
  • Valentine: Doesn't have much synergy with Painwheel, at least from my research. While a reversal super into hatred install could be potentially badass, it's very situational. Could be a good throw away point for meter gain. *From my experience, Painwheel is going to love a low assist. However, I don't see much DHC synergy between these two. Both Scalpels and Flatliner send the opponent pretty far away.*
  • Cerebella: While I like how easy and damaging her BnB is, I don't like her play style. Her grounded movement is too slow for me.
  • Squigly: Her combos are a lot of fun to pull off, but I don't see much synergy between these two. Also, both her and Painwheel lack meterless reversals. She'll probably make a B team, though. :D *While c.HP is an amazing lockdown low, you can't really DHC from SBO to Hatred Install outside of the corner. If I'm getting pressured really hard, I'm probably going to be going for Daisy Pusher and you can't DHC after they fall into the grave.*
  • Peacock: Good if I don't want the other player to have fun x). Seriously though, I think a Peacock/Painwheel team could be good. I know M Pinion sends them fullscreen if it connects, so there's that. George is also a nice interrupt if I start to get combo'd. *For sure a character I'd like to pick up at some point.*
  • Eliza: I really like Eliza. She controls space extremely well. For some reason, I just don't see any synergy between her, Painwheel and Double. Probably make a good B team with Squigs, though. *After playing around with Eliza's supers into Hatred Install, I actually think she has a lot more synergy with Painwheel than I initially thought. The ground bounce from ending the Sehkmet super early is nice, as well as her air super. Her level 3 into HI is also good, but that costs 4 meter, which I don't see happening much in real matches. Now the only questions I have are as follows: How well does Eliza build meter? I know that Sehkmet is needed for some of her BnBs. Is Eliza a good point character? Also, what assist would be good for PW and Double? Specifically PW, as that's who I have the most experience with and love for. Horus is nice, but I usually fly a lot, so the opponent will most likely be blocking high. The assist I used when I was playing her on a team with Painwheel was Butcher's Blade.*
  • Fukua: Eh. Some problem as Filia with her normals are very short ranged and I love space control. Also, I don't know if there is any synergy there. *All of Fukua's supers knock the opponent away (except for BFF). And I'm not too keen on the character*
  • Beowulf: While he is a ton of fun to play, I don't think he fits my play style nor has synergy with PW/Dubs. I could be wrong though as I haven't played him much. *From what I could tell about 20 minutes or so playing around with him in training mode there's not much you can do with DHCs between him and PW (Hatred Install specifically) as arm super knocks them almost fullscreen, Airwulf is nice for getting out and the side switch into HI is nice, but I don't see him being on my team as a point.* I like Beo so much (and after seeing Krackatoa's team), I've decided to put PW on point and have Beo be my assist character! :D
  • Ms. Fortune- I haven't played her since I picked up SG. I know Taluda uses her on his team. Painwheel can convert of Fiber with relative ease, but again, I'm ass at IADs.
  • Robo- Haven't touched her. Is there any synergy between her, Painwheel and Double?
  • Parasoul- Most likely the character I'm going to add to my team. I've read that there is really good synergy between her, Painwheel and Double. Space control with tears is pretty good. She's got pretty fast ground movement, which I love. The only thing is I'm going to have to get used to charging mid combo. Also, her resets are more 'honest' than I'm used to (where PW's reset can be pretty dirty, hehe). Also, just watched Poccola video and Sniper Shot -> Install looks amazing.
Any and all thoughts and suggestions are very much welcomed and appreciated. <3​
 
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What are you using to determine if a character has "synergy" with your other characters? You say in a bunch of places in that post that a character does or doesn't have synergy but you never explain your reasoning, which is why I'm curious.

But anyways. If you want to play Parasoul/Painwheel/Double, I think that team is very good and I would def recommend it. Being able to confirm off full screen tear shots into a full Painwheel combo is the coolest shit ever. I don't really agree that her resets are honest though. The c.HP > j.LP j.LK j.MP left/right/high/low/air grab mixup that was found in pre-alpha is still really good.
 
mcpeanuts said:
What are you using to determine if a character has "synergy" with your other characters? You say in a bunch of places in that post that a character does or doesn't have synergy but you never explain your reasoning, which is why I'm curious.

I've added asterisks explaining my thought process, but primarily I was thinking DHC synergy more so than assists. I don't know why I didn't do it when I first made the post. Probably because it was like 1 in the morning, haha. I've also spaced the character thing out a bit more to make it more readable.

mcpeanuts said:
But anyways. If you want to play Parasoul/Painwheel/Double, I think that team is very good and I would def recommend it. Being able to confirm off full screen tear shots into a full Painwheel combo is the coolest shit ever. I don't really agree that her resets are honest though. The c.HP > j.LP j.LK j.MP left/right/high/low/air grab mixup that was found in pre-alpha is still really good.

Oh that's the reset I see all the damn time. Wow, yeah, that gives you a lot of options. I was primarily thinking about the command normal resets.
 
OK I have read your edits. I agree with most of this stuff so if I didn't quote something just assume I agreed with it.
dormoxx said:
Eliza: I really like Eliza. She controls space extremely well. For some reason, I just don't see any synergy between her, Painwheel and Double. Probably make a good B team with Squigs, though. *After playing around with Eliza's supers into Hatred Install, I actually think she has a lot more synergy with Painwheel than I initially thought. The ground bounce from ending the Sehkmet super early is nice, as well as her air super. Her level 3 into HI is also good, but that costs 4 meter, which I don't see happening much in real matches.
I imagine that DHCs from air super is probably also very good. You may be able to do some nonsense like DHC when Eliza goes off the screen and fully charge Painwheel c.HP before they fall to the ground. Dunno I never tried it but I bet that works. The real issue here tho is that while these supers give you good DHCs on hit, they're probably not great on block. Lady of Slaughter also has no invincibility, so it's not like you throw it out when you're in trouble then DHC if it gets blocked, which you can do with most other characters.
dormoxx said:
Now the only questions I have are as follows: How well does Eliza build meter? I know that Sehkmet is needed for some of her BnBs. Is Eliza a good point character? Also, what assist would be good for PW and Double? Specifically PW, as that's who I have the most experience with and love for. Horus is nice, but I usually fly a lot, so the opponent will most likely be blocking high. The assist I used when I was playing her on a team with Painwheel was Butcher's Blade.*
I guess Eliza's meter gain is average? Like you'll hit two bars. Might need to go easy on the spooky skeleton. Even if you're flying I still think the best assist here would be Horus. Because you already have Hornet Bomber you don't really need a horizontal assist, and IMO Horus is the best assist she has that's not horizontal. Even as Painwheel you can use it to set up hard to blockables; do stuff like fly in j.MP, fast fall somewhere in the middle of that move, call Horus and c.LK c.MP at the same time.

dormoxx said:
Fukua: Eh. Some problem as Filia with her normals are very short ranged and I love space control. Also, I don't know if there is any synergy there. *All of Fukua's supers knock the opponent away (except for BFF). And I'm not too keen on the character*
So they all knock away except for the one that doesn't? :^) DHCing to install from BFF is probably really cheap. If you feel like it you can do a full Fukua combo then end with BFF > Install, and instead of comboing off the crumple, just let the combo end and mix them up on their wakeup. They can't ground tech from a crumple and you got installed Painwheel right next to them with time to set up an ambiguous left/right with fly j.HK or whatever you want, really.

But all that aside you didn't talk about the assists! Fukua has some real good assists. What if you used like L Shadow or something. You can fly at people while calling out a disjointed low hitting assist that gives you a full combo on hit. I mean if you're not feeling Fukua that's fine but I def think she could work well with Painwheel.

dormoxx said:
Beowulf: While he is a ton of fun to play, I don't think he fits my play style nor has synergy with PW/Dubs. I could be wrong though as I haven't played him much. *From what I could tell about 20 minutes or so playing around with him in training mode there's not much you can do with DHCs between him and PW (Hatred Install specifically) as arm super knocks them almost fullscreen, Airwulf is nice for getting out and the side switch into HI is nice, but I don't see him being on my team as a point.*
Gigantic Arm > Install is probably not super interesting on hit, but I imagine it's very good on block; Arm causes a lot of blockstun, which you can use for installed Painwheel mixups. Maybe you can combo off it if the Arm pushes them into the corner and you DHC late? I don't actually know.

You didn't mention the assists again tho, like DHCs into Install are cool but assists are the real meat and potatoes of building teams. H Chair would probably be really useful for Painwheel, and it can cover space that Hornet Bomber doesn't.

dormoxx said:
Robo- Haven't touched her. Is there any synergy between her, Painwheel and Double?
Willing to bet that Magnet > Install gives you some sort of crazy nonsense. Landmine assist would probably be really cheap with Painwheel just as a way to make your setups safe. Also, if you're still thinking of playing x/Painwheel/Double, maybe doing a beam and calling H Pinion at the same time gets you a full meterless combo from a fullscreen safe projectile? Maybe H Pinion lets you convert on hit from s.HK? This is the sort of thing I would mess around with.
 
dormoxx said:
Big Band: While I fucking LOVE M A-Train assist, he's too big and way too slow for my play style.

Parasoul- Most likely the character I'm going to add to my team. I've read that there is really good synergy between her, Painwheel and Double. Space control with tears is pretty good. She's got pretty fast ground movement, which I love. The only thing is I'm going to have to get used to charging mid combo. Also, her resets are more 'honest' than I'm used to (where PW's reset can be pretty dirty, hehe). Also, just watched Poccola video and Sniper Shot -> Install looks amazing.
​


I'm just curious, how long did you try out Big Band? His and Parasoul controls both share having to do charge moves in the middle of combos.​
 
Skrylar said:
I'm just curious, how long did you try out Big Band? His and Parasoul controls both share having to do charge moves in the middle of combos.​

For a few weeks, at least. I still play him off and on. But the midscreen BnB that I tried didn't include charge moves, whereas Parasoul's does.

Quick edit: Having second thoughts about Filia. I love how rushdown and reset heavy she is, but it seems you have to be really fast with your inputs. Filia players: is that something you got used to when you picked her up? I know that it took me a bit to get used to fly canceling and am wondering if this is kind of the same thing.
 
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dormoxx said:
For a few weeks, at least. I still play him off and on. But the midscreen BnB that I tried didn't include charge moves, whereas Parasoul's does.
He has a nice combo that involves launching someone, doing j.HK to wall bounce, then launching them a second time concluding with a charged A-Train. I think this one requires you to be a little closer to the corner than pure mid-screen but does a nice bit of damage.
 
Got a few videos of me playing against Quick Match! :D Also edited the 'Potential Team mates' post to reflect my current standing.

Part 1:
Comments:
General: Not sure what to do in the Robo matchup, as I haven't played it much. Apply my (non Big Band/Double) BnB to real matches and use Wulf Blitzer more. Stop relying on J.HP as Beowulf, but it's so goood. Also, learn a universal Beo BnB and some resets.

Game 1: Thought that I would build enough meter to DHC at the first corner super, but nope. When Robo is in the corner, I could feel some amount of lag because I drop my combos. That taunt was probably a dumb idea lol. Don't know why I called assist when I got the happy birthday damage, probably should have tagged (I don't think it would have gotten punished). I flew right up to my death at the end, didn't know the hitbox went all the way out to the end of the blood smile thing on MF's level 3. <_> (You can see my frustration on the stick display lol)

Game 2:
I have problems with good Filias, is the takeaway from this match (and a few others that I'm up against busterfriendly). Had a million years to confirm off the crumple of the fully charged C.HP after buster's raw tag, but I did nothing <_>. You can tell in this game (and probably many others) I just started playing Beo lol. I lose this game because I fuck up my Install combo. This was actually the first time trying it out in a real match, so I'm not that surprised I dropped it.

Game 3:
I went Solowheel for this one, which is a mistake. Beo's H Chair Toss is really good. I may have been able to Unfly in time to block the first raw Dynamo, but I just didn't for some reason.

Game 4:
Got predictable with my J.HP as Beo and get punished for it. Ended with the Happy Birthday and my salt levels were high <_>.

Part 2:
Comments:
To Be Updated

Not sure why my stick display decided to stop working between the two videos. Oh well.
 
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