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A training dairy

NaimS

NaimS

Where's my win button?!..
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Cerebella
Where should I start? I've already played more than a hundred of hours and yet I didn't achieve anything worth mentioning. Why?! Because I've been fooling around, learning the basics and etc. So in order to keep myself in check I decided to make this diary thing and write down what should be done/improved/learned.
The list of characters I've been playing would be written down here... I'll also add the information about problems that were chasing me, hard times with some matchups, difficulties with inputs, understanding play-style and other stuff... Let's begin!

That PEW-PEW bastard... You've heard of her, right? Well, she was probably the reason I've started playing this game, that's why she was my first character.
To do:
  • Learn to fight up-close. - I usually fail to do anything when an opponent gets really close. I guess I have at least to learn a combo.
  • Stop spamming specials. - That would make me less predictable.
  • Be quicker! - Peacock players I've seen and played against were far better than me. I couldn't even manage to see them!
She was the second character I've picked up. That was the time I had problems with dealing against Big Band and I was learning to block him and other things. After that I've played a bit and then dropped her.
To do:
  • Learn the zoning play-style. - I didn't quite understand the idea of her napalm shots and egrets soldiers.
  • Learn basic combo.
I've played with her for a rather long time...
To do:
  • Learn not to spam throws
  • Get better at Tumbling Run, D.Reflector and other stuff.
  • Learn some mixups, resets and etc. - Well, that would take some time...
She is the one I've playing recently.
To do:
  • Learn some mixups, resets, etc. - I've already been given enough of good information to start and yet I haven't even started training anything! What a lazy bastard am I!
  • Learn the conversions from shadows and throws. - I guess it would be useful for punishing
  • Become better with the BnB. - Sometimes I drop it so I need more practice.
Well, that's all for now. I haven't written anything about matchups, so I'll add it later after playing a little. Also I wanted to write about some problems, but I guess it has to wait...
 
NaimS said:
Learn the zoning play-style. - I didn't quite understand the idea of her napalm shots and egrets soldiers.
Basically, she has three different Napalm Shots that all hit different ways.
LP Napalm Shot travels forward slowly, but has the fastest startup.
MP Napalm Shot hits right below her, bounces up, and hits as an anti-air, so it is used to poke aerial opponents.
HP Napalm Shot also travels horizontally, but it has the longest startup.

She also has other tools to help her zoning.
s.LP is a really good long-range poke, so if your opponent is in range, you can use it to catch them off guard.
HK Egret Call is a command grab, and it is useful for covering the ground while you poke at your opponents with MP Napalm Shot.
Napalm Toss is great for creating immobile projectiles to help your zoning game. The different versions travel further, with LK traveling the least, putting the projectiles in front of you.
Napalm Trigger is to detonate the immobile projectiles caused by Napalm Toss/Shot. If they jump forward or do something while over a placed projectile, you can detonate them to deal damage. Napalm Shot > Napalm Trigger keeps them blocking for longer, while doing more chip damage.

NaimS said:
Learn basic combo.
If you don't have one, here are two.
This is a normal intermediate BnB.
c.LK > c.MK > s.HP x2 > Napalm Shot > s.LP > s.MP > b.HK > LK Egret Call > Dash Forward > s.MK > c.HP > j.MP > j.HP > j.HK > s.LK x2 > s.MK x2 > s.HP x2 > MP Napalm Shot > Silent Scope > c.MP (Burst Bait)

Here is a beginner version:

c.LK > c.MK > c.HP > j.MP > j.HP > j.HK > c.LK > s.MK x2 > s.HP x2 > MP Napalm Shot
Much less damage for no diffcult links.

NaimS said:
Learn some mixups, resets and etc. - Well, that would take some time...
You should check out this thread. This is the reset thread for Cerebella.
Here are a few easy-to-do ones, if you don't feel like digging through the thread:
-c.MP, delay, Merry-Go-Rilla

-c.HP > j.LP (Mash) > Diamond Drop

-c.MK > Kanchou

-c.MK > s.LK > Delay > j.MP (doesn't work on heavies/Beowulf)

-s.LP > s.HP > Merry-Go-Rilla
 
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Thanks for the reply!
As for Parasoul's zoning tools I've got the idea, but she does still look weird and slow for me, as for the combos and resets I will look into it, thank you!
 
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There's a chance of course that maybe parasoul isn't the character for you; I also tried playing her for a while but ended up moving away from her because I wasn't fond of how slow she felt (her moves generally have long startups and she of course has no doublejump or airdash). That said, zoning parasoul is similar to zoning peacock in that it's MUCH better when you have an assist to back you up (either an assist that helps you with zoning, or a DP assist to cover you if your opponent does get in). If you want to play parasoul solo, of course Fenster is the guy to watch, he plays a more midrange game where instead of trying to zone the opponent from fullscreen like peacock might do, he uses tears and Parasoul's large normals to control the space directly in front of her and force the opponent to respect her, which gives him the opportunity to pressure the opponent.

The BnB compendium is probably the best starting point for combos for any character you want to learn, these are at I would say an intermediate level of difficulty but they aren't too hard. For resets you can look in the character subforums as a starting point, but it can also be useful to look at your combos and try to notice points where the opponent is in a position where you could reset them. This isn't something I would recommend quite yet, I would start with the resets people have found, but once you get more comfortable you can turn on frame data in training mode and look at what moves you are + after; those are usually good points to go for resets at. As an example with parasoul, after her j.mp she ends up on the ground able to act while the opponent is still in the air and vulnerable; this is a common reset point because you can jump and airthrow them or hit them while they're coming down.
 
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Haaaah... I've played a little against AI as Fukua and made few notes:
  • I need to practice jump-ins against different characters
  • I need to practice aerial version of her projectile blockbuster.
  • I have to time some of her normal to use them as pokes and reversal if possible
Also I've found some matchups problems:
  • I have to do smth against Filia's IAD attacks and ground/aerial hairball
  • Eliza, Robo-Fortune and Double are tricky ones. Need to get used to them.
Pickles said:
There's a chance of course that maybe parasoul isn't the character for you
Perhaps. I think I'll try playing her harder later when I would be more patient.
Pickles said:
it can also be useful to look at your combos and try to notice points where the opponent is in a position where you could reset them
Nah, it's hard for me at this point, I'm not that experienced yet.
Pickles said:
The BnB compendium
Thanks, it's useful! But I personally prefer this Fukua's BnB:
winnie said:
Mid Screen universal no otg (BNB):
cr.lk > cr.mp > cr.hp > hk shadow > s.mk > s.hp > j.hp > j.hk > cr.mp > cr.hp > mk shadow > j.mp > j.hk > s.lk(x2) > cr.mk > cr.hp > hk drill > super
(8051 with drill super) (6861 no super)
It's maybe outdated, though.


...


Also I decided to leave this post as some kind of a bookmark:
Skarmand said:
Basic Fukua reset help:
To set up Fukua's vortex game, try the string: cMP cHP x M Shadow.
You can do cLK cMP cHP or course or jHK cMP cHP, it doesn't matter.
You just need the cMP cHP x M Shadow.

After that it'l knock the opponent into the air helpless.

After they are the in air you've got TONS of options as Fukua.

You can run under them and do sLP for a frame trap cross under.
You can run/walk under them late or dash under them twice for a fake frame trap cross under.

You can jump up and hit them with jLP/throw for a frame trap.
You can run under them and jump straight up and use jLP/throw for a cross under frame trap.

You can let them fall down and then hit them with cLK/Command Grab for a simple low throw if they are too scared to hit a button while falling due to the threat of the frame traps.

Most characters don't have air reversals which is why M Shadow is so effective.

...

You can also set up simple low / command grab 50/50's at almost any point during your combos.
sLP > cLK/Command Grab
jHK > cLK/Command Grab
cLK cMP > cLK/Command Grab.
Skarmand said:
I also made a video showing a few examples for a friend a long while back if you wanted to see it.
I make a few mistakes but you should get the idea.

[Starts Ten Seconds In]
 
@NaimS

Parasoul usually can't zone forever against most of the cast.

You want to zone until they get close enough and impatient, where you try and read their approach and stuff them or apply pressure before they can do the same to you.

I can record Parasouls vortex examples the same way I did with Fukua if you'd find that helpful too, just let me know. (But better and not a half assed recording for someone else.)

Meow-Professor said:
HK Egret Call is a command grab
Hit Grab* :^)
 
@Skarmand
No, thanks. I don't want to bother you with that since I'll probably won't be playing Parasoul.
Btw, how do I reply to someone quickly without quoting?
 
Just like you did there.
@[Username]

Or you just hit reply and you can edit the reply to be shorter.
NaimS said:
Like this!

Not sure what other replies there are.
 
for me anyway, I don't think this is any plugin or anything I have but fwiw I am using Firefox, if you highlight text a little bubble saying "Reply" shows up that you can click on, that automatically quotes the post with just that text so you don't have to edit the reply yourself. Something I found not too long ago that definitely saves time.
 
I made a discovery for myself: Fukua's Blown Kiss blockbuster isn't totally invisible - Robo-Fortune's laser broke it! Well, live and learn!
P.S. I'm a lazy piece of $%&! I didn't make any progress these days!.. Why?! I've been just casually playing arcade mode!..
 
if you go into training mode, go to training settings, and turn on hitboxes and set attack data to advanced, you can see what moves are invulnerable.

Hitboxes:
Green = your hurtbox
Red = your hitboxes
White = fully invincible
Blue = hit invincible
dark orange = projectile invincible

advanced attack data maps frame by frame the properties of the attack
Green = no special properties
red = the times/duration of when the attack was active
White = fully invincible
Blue = hit invincible
dark orange = projectile invincible

also you'll learn a lot more playing people than just playing against the AI.
 
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Throw invincible. forgot about that one.

Also 3rd line is red if you can't supercancel / bottom purple is when you can pass through the opponent
 
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I've completely moved to the keyboard recently - it made crouching blocking easier, but I had to re-learn few BnB, though. After that finally played a decent amount of online matches and realised that my defense is really poor. I guess I need to stop mashing recklessly sometimes and learn to pushblock better (also I'm going to learn Absolute Guard and PBGC).
Also it seems that I suck at punishing too: even when there's good opportunity, I can't manage to do it - probably I'm too slow (or maybe it's because of ping and bad connection). Well, learning defense will possibly make it easier.
Recently I've been playing Cerebella a lot, maybe I'd be maining her. Though, it usually hard to do Excellebella (also other command grabs sometimes) for some reason. Should I do it not on reaction, but on prediction?
 
Have learned Bella's j.lp mashes>j.hp and c.mk>j.mp>j.hk restand. It was much easier than I've expected. Some practice's needed, though. I've moved to the other city so my internet connection became even worse... I do make some progress, but it's just too small. This makes me feel a bit bored. I guess I'll make a little break. Maybe will try another character, probably Double. Gotta check BnB thread, I think.
P.S. Changed the title, 'cause it looked rather ridiculous.
P.P.S. Oh, I've got to watch recent replays...
 
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NaimS said:
Have learned Bella's j.lp mashes>j.hp restand. Some practice's needed, though.
Another more consistent way to do it I find is the JLPx3 JHP restand.
If you wanted to take a stab at it Mr Peck made a nice video here:
 
@Skarmand
Actually, I've seen this video and I do it a similar way, but not always 3x j.lp. Well, I do about 3-5 punches.
 
I have been playing a lot of matches in beginner lobbies recently. This helped me to improve my defense (it was really weak). Also I've been playing Peacock+Cerebella team a little - it was pretty fun sometimes.
I guess I need to play more online matches to train my neutral game. Then I will be learning resets (to do them and to defense against them), team mechanics. After that I would be hopefully ready to play in intermediate lobbies.
I do spam some moves (like Kanchou) so I will spend some time watching replays to find all of these attacks.
I suck at doing throw techs. I'll go to the beginner (or not) resources for some guides.
Big Band looks like a character I'd pick later. Yeah, later-later-later...
 
I've played few matches against some good Filia. Though I had more wins, overall I'm feeling like I've been humiliated. It's... rather complicated feeling. Maybe I was panicking too much, when he was pressuring me, I dunno. I'd better make a break for some time...
 
If you're look for help in improving, it would be great if you could upload replays
 
NaimS said:
I do can upload some replays, but I doubt they would be interesting to watch: I'm a noob playing with random noobs.
While it might seem like they won't be interesting, they will help show us what you need to improve on, letting us point those things out to you. Don't worry about if it is interesting or not, we'll watch it either way.
 
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I'm on like ALL of the SG streams. I'll watch anything and yell at any Val player to learn heavy counter hit combos and to stop doing bad combos that scale damage to hell.
 
Here some recent replays against 3 different people:
Me against Beowulf:
For some reason he wasn't using command throw and wolfblitz (or what was it name?)
I'm on the left in all of these videos:
Me against Filia:
Playlist link (to the videos above) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6phYA6AILHYNrsB4CpjJyLpfrBt_HTuH
I also can just upload replays files, but there's just too much of them:
e1pjj1u.jpg
Also I've made a list of characters I've been using this month:
  1. Cerebella - she's my main character so I play her in every matches.
  2. Fukua - though I rarely play her, she takes the 2nd place in this strength list
  3. Peacock - I never use her outside of team. Yeah, I'm spamming all days.
  4. Big Band - I don't know any combo yet and just spam with his specials.
~Edit: Damn, it's already 1:41am of my local time! It's time for some (reckless) sleep, yay!..
 
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OK. Let's see. I'm just gonna comment on your bella since she's your main. Also mainly watched some of the fights with filia since I assumed those were the most recent

1. Stop doing tumble run so much. The only real good option off tumble run is LK (Stop). Everything else is a risky gamble that loses to upback. Instead of trying to run in all the time, just play it patiently. The best mobility options are the ones that let you block.
2. You don't always have to press buttons when jumping. Sometimes its better to just empty jump and hold back in case they call a dp assist or do something else to anti-air you.
3. Poke more! Instead of going for kanchou point blank, do more c.lk. It's your #1 combo starter that's much safer, leads to continuous pressure, and catches them if they want to hold upback.
4. Dealing with Filia's c.mk: it's like -4 on block or something. It's safe, but if they end a blockstring with it(but most won't since filia players should do s.hp to end blockstrings... it's 0 on block), it's your turn to press buttons.
5. You didn't make the Filia fear bella at all. Bella's strength is the ever looming threat of the command grab/low 50/50 when she's close. All of her blockstrings can be cancelled into run-stop for safe pressure, or into command grabs. This is why people always pushblock bella as soon as they get touched
6. Pushblock timing. If you want to pushblock multi-hitting moves, you have to pushblock the last hit. Otherwise, they aren't going anywhere. That being said, if you pushblock during the first or second hit of filia's c.mk or Val's s.mp(the second part), you can pbgc reversal out of it.
 
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Fedora_Ninja said:
1. Stop doing tumble run so much.
That's one of my bad habits. I'm working on shaking it off, though.
Fedora_Ninja said:
2. Sometimes its better to just empty jump and hold back
Yeah, I know that, but I keep forgetting about that in the middle of fights.
Fedora_Ninja said:
3. Poke more!
4. Dealing with Filia's c.mk...
Alright, point taken!
Fedora_Ninja said:
5. You didn't make the Filia fear bella at all.
Well, it's hard for me to take the lead. I tend to let them attack me and counter-attack them - but it usually doesn't work at all...
:PUN:
Fedora_Ninja said:
6. If you want to pushblock multi-hitting moves, you have to pushblock the last hit.
I know, I just has little experience doing it. I've pushblocked her c.mp more efficiently in later matches.
 
I've been thinking a bit. I'm stuck at my current level mostly because of lack of offense and there are reasons for that:
  • My rather friendly attitude. I usually don't feel anything against my opponents.
  • Sometimes I'm afraid. But the fear disappears as much as I play.
  • I have a bad mood sometimes. But I find it's better not to play at all when it happens.
  • Also recently I've been feeling that the characters I play doesn't really suit me. So... I guess I should try other ones. If someone can give me an advice, it would be nice. Anyway, I'll spend some time "tasting them".
Ah, and I need some pieces of advice on these matchups I have problems playing as Cerebella: Beowulf, Eliza, Filia, Parasoul.
 
NaimS said:
I've been thinking a bit. I'm stuck at my current level mostly because of lack of offense and there are reasons for that:
  • My rather friendly attitude. I usually don't feel anything against my opponents.
  • Sometimes I'm afraid. But the fear disappears as much as I play.
  • I have a bad mood sometimes. But I find it's better not to play at all when it happens.
  • Also recently I've been feeling that the characters I play doesn't really suit me. So... I guess I should try other ones. If someone can give me an advice, it would be nice. Anyway, I'll spend some time "tasting them".
Ah, and I need some pieces of advice on these matchups I have problems playing as Cerebella: Beowulf, Eliza, Filia, Parasoul.
Wow I totally missed this I apologize
On finding a character you like, what do you enjoy about certain characters? Do you want someone like Cerebella, or just want someone who works well with her? Or do you just want to find someone you enjoy?
On the Cerebella match-ups:
Against Parasoul, Cerebella has a lot of tools you'll need to learn to use. Her Diamond Deflector reflects projectives, so if one is coming at you, if you can react in time you can reflect it back at Parasoul. This doesn't work on the bike she sends at you, so be careful with it so it doesn't catch you while you try to reflect.
Her Tumbling Run has armor on it, so you can use it to run through projectiles. The options off of it are all unsafe so be careful with it, although Kanchou is projectile invincible.
J.HP is useful for closing distance while staying above projectiles, but be wary of her a M Napalm Shot.

With Beowulf, you've got a few options to try anti-airing his j.HP- Devil Horns can be comboed off of and is invincible, but has a very thin horizontal hitbox so it really only works if he is right above you. Battle Butt can all be used as a more horizontal anti-air but it can't be comboed off of. Chairless, be careful of his c.HK if you try to Tumble Run to close distance, as it is a sweep and will go through your armor.

With Filia, the advice with using Devil Horns and Battle Butt as anti-airs applies as well, although since Filia is on top of you more than Beowulf Devil Horns is more useful. Battle Butt still helps to catch her IADing from a distance. I should also mention going into c.MP before you use Devil Horns increases its range a lot, but it takes a bit more time to perform. Excellabella also as a lot of range and is unblockable on their way up into the air. The range of c.LK also helps catch her trying to IAD forward.
I don't have time to go into Eliza stuff ATM, I'll reply with tips for her when I get a chance, sorry
 
mm I didn't see this until now but as a filia player I want to reply to a bit of this

Fedora_Ninja said:
4. Dealing with Filia's c.mk: it's like -4 on block or something. It's safe, but if they end a blockstring with it(but most won't since filia players should do s.hp to end blockstrings... it's 0 on block), it's your turn to press buttons.
5. You didn't make the Filia fear bella at all. Bella's strength is the ever looming threat of the command grab/low 50/50 when she's close. All of her blockstrings can be cancelled into run-stop for safe pressure, or into command grabs. This is why people always pushblock bella as soon as they get touched

filia s.hp is -4 on block, you very much have frame advantage if she ends a blockstring with it (but it's still her safest ender unless she can confirm off 2 hits). Her c.mk is -7 so it is very punishable, filias will usually use it to confirm and then cancel into s.hp to make it safe. The thing about c.mk though is it's VERY easy to PBGC, once you get more comfortable with the concept of PBGC you can make filias really scared to use c.mk.

Vs filia instant j.hp is actually a very strong tool, stuffs Filia's air approaches pretty well and is much safer than things like devil horns or battle butt. I would say that is bella's best tool to stop Filia air approach. c.lk has a very long range so it's good vs ground approaches. If you know they're low enough then of course Lock n Load has the armor and it's (basically) safe on block so as long as it won't whiff it's a safe option (though especially against Filia if you do it when she's higher in the air she can airdash j.mp to shit it down, so make sure they'll at least block it, it's best used if you see them pressing something that you can punish with the armor)
 
Thanks for the replies!
Meow-Professor said:
On finding a character you like, what do you enjoy about certain characters? Do you want someone like Cerebella, or just want someone who works well with her? Or do you just want to find someone you enjoy?
It's hard to say. I guess, I just want to try a new character but dunno which. I like Cerebella for her long reach and kinda answers for most situations, I think. I like Peacock for her zoning abilities, Fukua - because she has something from these two.
Meow-Professor said:
Against Parasoul, ...
I has more problems with her rushdown style. Pushblock does help against her j.hp, though.
Meow-Professor said:
With Beowulf, ...
With Filia, ...
I appreciate this, thank you.
Meow-Professor said:
c.MP before ... Devil Horns
You mean Kara throw?

Pickles said:
The thing about c.mk though is it's VERY easy to PBGC, once you get more comfortable with the concept of PBGC you can make filias really scared to use c.mk.
Yeah, it's really easier with some practice.
Pickles said:
I would say that is bella's best tool to stop Filia air approach.
If you know they're low enough then of course Lock n Load...
Hmm... I've almost never tried j.hp and LnL against her. Looks interesting, thank you.
 
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NaimS said:
I has more problems with her rushdown style. Pushblock does help against her j.hp, though.
...Oops sorry, most people starting out have more trouble with her projectiles, so I just assumed that was what you meant. I'll update it when I get to Eliza.
NaimS said:
You mean Kara throw?
Yes you're just Kara Canceling it (c.MP is really good for Kara Canceling).
 
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