Not Another Character Crisis Thread...

I'm probably the worst at this but...
1. Somewhat, I can't remember what. But I'm sure somethings have changed
2. I don't main those two so I don't know...
3. Big Band is rushdown, Beowulf is the end-all be all of grapplers, Eliza I can't remember, Fukua has some zoning tools, and Robo fortune as well.
4. Not really to say the least
5. Not really
6. Big Band and Beowulf

The Martian said:

1. Have there been any huge changes to the system mechanics in the last 2 years?

Undizzy was probably the last really big system change that was made, which should have been around 2 years ago. There's been a lot of stuff changed but I can't think of anything changed in the last 2 years that would completely change how you play or render a lot of your old stuff unusable or anything like that. I guess proximity blocking changed? There used to be some setups especially using fireballs which wouldn't trigger preblock, so they would hit people out of upback. That stuff doesn't work anymore. Dunno what else.

The Martian said:

2. Have Squigly/Valentine undergone any huge changes?

Valentine had a really big change to air Savage Bypass, it now allows follow up combos. Her most damaging combos use this, and it allows for side switches or confirms off air to airs that wouldn't work before. All the old combos still work too though. You can also charge up to 3 levels of her poison vials, more poison has longer duration and stronger effects. Dunno if something else was changed.

Squigly's Draugen Punch changed. In the past this wasn't really usable as a reversal because the startup frames were the startup of Squigly's stance, which wasn't invincible. Now if you do DP+HP, she goes right into the DP and the charged version is fully invincible from startup (the uncharged version still has no invincibility). DP+LP and DP+MP work the same as before. c.LK and c.MP have smaller hurtboxes and can low profile some things. Charged QCF+HK now hits low, so it will catch people who are upbacking (it did this before, but that was because of the proximity guarding thing I was talking about before).

The Martian said:

3. I'm probably going to pick up one of the new characters, but I have no idea what kinds of archetypes they follow (in terms of grapplers, rushdown, zoning, ect). My preferred style of play is usually grappler or rushdown, so which of the new characters fit these criteria the best?

They're all rushdown characters, except for Robo who is a hybrid zoning/rushdown character, and I guess Big Band who moves too slow to be called rushdown. Dunno what you would call him, though. A poking character? A big asshole who has armor and/or invincibility on everything? Idk.

The Martian said:

4. Is the PS4 playerbase pretty active? Does the PS4 version have cross-play with other consoles like PC and PS3?

PS4 has crossplay with PS3 and will have crossplay with Vita when that comes out. However, console is dead, very few players are on there. Everyone's on the PC version.

The Martian said:

5. Is there a current tier list that I can reference

No, no one can agree on a tier list yet. There's some consensus that Fortune, Eliza, Fukua, and Double are good characters, and Filia and Squigly are bad characters. But outside of that everyone is just in the middle somewhere. Everyone's viable so just play whoever.

The Martian said:

6. All in all, if I were to make a 2 man team consisting of the "best" grappler and the "best" rushdown, which two would you guys suggest?

Fortune (H Fiber)/Cerebella (Cerecopter), imo

The Martian said:

1. Have there been any huge changes to the system mechanics in the last 2 years?

To add onto what McPeanuts said for this question, PBGCing was changed to become a lot easier mechanically as well as a new green flash on a character when they do it (this flash makes it much easier to see when people actually PBGC). If you remember PBGC before, you would have to return the stick to neutral or forward in order to perform it, but it's been changed so that you don't have to do that anymore because the game automatically puts your character back to the neural position at the end of a PB.

For example, PBGC into level 3's weren't exactly easy to do before, since the motion for Level 3's ended in the back direction, which in turn would be cross with the PBGC window since it would be looking for neutral/forward. But now, since you'll automatically return to neutral during a normal PB, you can just input a normal motion for level 3 and it's much more likely to come out.

Long story short, PBGC is a lot easier than before so you should take advantage of that.

Peanuts answered 1 and 2 for me very well. That stuff's spot on.

3. Big Band is a really flexible character. I've played Big Bands who rushdown with him. I've played Big Bands who poke with him. I've even played Big Bands who turtle with him. I'm more of a pokey Big Band, then I use LnL assist to stay on them once I get some sort of clean confirm. You can play him how you want. Eliza's pretty in your face, so she's a good choice for a rushdown character. Fukua can be played however the hell you wanna. I zone with her a lot. A friend of mine plays rushdown Fukua. Both styles have their merits. She's very flexible and can be played however you want. Beowulf's a grappler. Unlike the other characters, his playstyle revolves much more around oki rather than resets, but he's still very in your face. You can play him pretty pokey as well, though, from my experience as him, but far better Beowulf's than I play him more aggressively. Robo-Fortune is a zoner like Peacock, but requires a bit more setting up for her zoning than Peacock. She can be played really aggressively as well, though, so I'd also say she's sorta flexible, but not as much for certain reasons in my opinion, but those reasons can be fixed with certain assists in my opinion. Key word there is, "opinion". I'll argue she's best as a zoner rather than rushdown, but that's just me.

4. Like Peanuts said, PS4 can play with PS3, as well as the Vita when it's out. There aren't many people on console if you're looking in ranked match, but there might be more now. I dunno. I hate ranked, so I quit it. However, there IS a tournament called Skullbats that happens every Saturday at 8PM EST if you live in the US. There are plenty of players there that are more than happy to help with anything you need. The tournament doesn't have anything like elimination if you're worried about it. It's all for fun. This is the thread to join if you're interested.
(Shameless plug ends here)

5. Peanuts' answer is fine aside from the fact that Squigly is pretty good and people really underestimate that character. Still waiting for a certain someone to go to a tournament and show people why. Filia really is in the garbage, however. She's bottom tier, but she's not Sean bottom tier. KhaosMuffins said it best. Everyone in this game is top tier. Some are just better at being top tier than others. Everyone in the game is viable, and there are no unwinnable matchups, so that's all that really matters at the end of the day.

6. I agree with Fortune(H Fiber)/Bella(Copter). I'd also say something like Val(multiple choices)/Bella(Copter/Excellabella) or Painwheel(a couple choices)/Bella(Copter) is a really good choice. Val, Painwheel and Fortune are all characters with smothering rushdown. They also all work really well with Bella.

ShakyFingers said:

5. Peanuts' answer is fine aside from the fact that Squigly is pretty good and people really underestimate that character. Still waiting for a certain someone to go to a tournament and show people why.

Does CEOtaku not count? :^)

The Martian said:

3. I'm probably going to pick up one of the new characters, but I have no idea what kinds of archetypes they follow (in terms of grapplers, rushdown, zoning, ect). My preferred style of play is usually grappler or rushdown, so which of the new characters fit these criteria the best?

Cerebella is a grappler who gets in your face.
Sounds like your kind of character.

Hastily whipped up and take it with a grain of salt I may have even forgot a character:

Spacing: Parasoul, Squigly, Big Band, Fukua, Valentine, Double, Robo-Fortune, Painwheel
Grappler: Cerebella, Fukua, Beowulf, Big Band
Rushdown: Filia, Fortune, Painwheel, Eliza, Double
Zoners: Peacock, Robo-Fortune

For Skullgirls specifically, I'd break it down like this:

Spacing characters have good options at all ranges which doesn't force them to approach as much as a rushdown character would.
They can pick times to move in and out of their opponents space and can apply pressure from multiple ranges to set the pace of the match during neutral.
Once these characters are in and they have won neutral they can transition into rushdown easily or back up to remain safe and go back to spacing.

Grapplers do grappler things with command grabs.

Rushdown characters are usually forced to get pretty close to get things done.
They're looking for openings in the opponents defence and movement to get in and open the opponent up.
They try and stick beside the opponent until they die because that's their best range.

Zoners are always running away not looking to approach unless the opponent is frustrated enough that they can confidently move in to poke them out of something or get a good grab.

...

Characters like Double, Parasoul, Fukua etc are very flexable and can ignore all their spacing tools and just go in backed with a good assist of course for rushdown.
Not saying it's not bad or good but it's just an option for that style of play.

mcpeanuts said:

They're all rushdown characters.

^
Disagree!

mcpeanuts said:

Squigly is bad.

Disagree!

I don't mean to harp on your either but I really don't think it's fair to call anyone bad because everyone can win and it's not like Squigly has 2-8 landslide bad MU's.
I think Squigly has a lot of good match ups and when it's bad she has Sing > Orb > Assist to win neutral into 50/50's anyway.

EDIT: I know you said everyone is 'viable' but if you're viable you're not 'bad' imo.

@The Martian you should totally play Squigly if you like her.
Since you like Valentine I can see you liking Squigly also.
You can get some nasty mix ups off Squigly's cHP assist with Valentine point.
You can throw in a super good anchor assist character for a pretty complete team.

EDIT2: Also welcome back.

mcpeanuts said:

Does CEOtaku not count? :^)

That certain someone didn't get to go to CEOtaku, so I s'pose not.

Apparently I was wrong and people can't even agree on who the bottom 2 characters are ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ShakyFingers said:

That certain someone didn't get to go to CEOtaku, so I s'pose not.

Nah just face it homie he was in the brackets he went 1-2. I will say tho I am impressed he got a win at a tournament he didn't show up for

mcpeanuts said:

Apparently I was wrong and people can't even agree on who the bottom 2 characters are ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nah just face it homie he was in the brackets he went 1-2. I will say tho I am impressed he got a win at a tournament he didn't show up for

Bottom 2 is very different than Bad is all I'm saying.
If you want to say Squigly is bottom 2 that's hella fine and I'd give you an emoji but they don't work on here.

I think Val cMK/Squigly DnB/A DP That Likes Lockdowns And Low Assists (Updo, Pillar, Big Band) is solid.

Skarmand said:

Bottom 2 is very different than Bad is all I'm saying.
If you want to say Squigly is bottom 2 that's hella fine and I'd give you an emoji but they don't work on here.
[emoji108][emoji108][emoji817][emoji23]

That's what I was trying to say, yeah.

mcpeanuts said:

Nah just face it homie he was in the brackets he went 1-2. I will say tho I am impressed he got a win at a tournament he didn't show up for

He, a buncha the Skullbats guys and I were all watching it in a stream. He didn't get to go because plans changed.
(I dunno if that was sarcastic or not. You wouldn't believe how terrible I am at detecting that through text)

ShakyFingers said:

He, a buncha the Skullbats guys and I were all watching it in a stream. He didn't get to go because plans changed.
(I dunno if that was sarcastic or not. You wouldn't believe how terrible I am at detecting that through text)

Ok to be clear I am making a joke. I know he couldn't go but he was still in the bracket and got a win due to being paired up with someone else who also couldn't go.

mcpeanuts said:

Ok to be clear I am making a joke. I know he couldn't go but he was still in the bracket and got a win due to being paired up with someone else who also couldn't go.

Okay, so I'm just dumb. I figured that was the case.

ShakyFingers said:

Okay, so I'm just dumb. I figured that was the case.

Don't worry about it dude, it's all arm (flex)

LK A-Train is a command grab that you must jump, it doesn't lead to anything unless you have good assist conversions or a DHC.
It's also rather slow.

EDIT: Also MK and HK A-Train are unblockable if you have upwards momentum.
So if they jump and they are blocking but still moving upwards, A-Train will be unblockable for them which is part of his 'grappling' game by catching people jumping away.

His overhead is like halfscreen zoomed in and faster than Parasouls though so that's another good mix up tool up close (or not).

Big Band is a really good assist character and kills people extremely fast off good reads, but unfortunately every character in the game can instant overhead him at unreactable speeds by jumping forward and hitting jab.

He does have best assist in the game though*, Beat Extend. Valentine does well with it too.

*imo

The Martian said:

I'll definitely be checking out that tournament, though. Haven't you guys been doing those tourneys on Saturdays for years now? I remember wanting to participate a few years back but never got around to it. I'll definitely be playing with you guys this Saturday though, any competition I can get in this game is just more opportunities to learn.

Glad to see you wanna join! I saw you post in the Skullbats thread as well, so I'll shoot Adeveis a message and he should get'cha into the Skype group soon enough.

If you like BB, then I really think Val/Squigly/BB is a solid team you should try. cMK/Drag n Bite/L Beat Extend

Val works great on point and gets a forward moving lockdown from DnB and an extremely strong DP assist from beat extend.
Squigly gets a 2 hit low/lockdown and beat extend.
Big Band gets a 2 hit low/lockdown and a forward moving lockdown.

Squigly/Band synergy is QUITE good.
Val/Band is also quite good.
Val/Squigly is probably considered questionable by some, but I've seen players who did a solid job with that team.

I don't think BB can really be considered a grappler tbh. Sure, he has a command grab (and anti-air cmd grabs) but they don't form a major part of his game plan based on what I know of him. I mean, Val also has a cmd grab but she definitely isn't a grappler. I think he is pretty strongly based around reads and spacing.

Personally, I think if you want a two person team then you should go for either Val (H Bypass)/Bella (H LnL) or Val (H Bypass)/Band (L Beat Extend). Both Band and Bella get a lot off of H Bypass in terms of conversions (plus it can act as a decent poke/means of rushing in) and Val does quite well with H LnL or L BE. H LnL is good for approaching your opponent and gives you a decent alpha counter (if you cancel it into USS). L BE covers Val's lack of meterless reversals and rather sub par anti-airs. Plus, regardless of which team you choose you can later choose to add the other team to make a pretty decent trio with Val (H Bypass)/Bella (H LnL)/Band (L Beat Extend) which is great for Val as she gets a good reversal/anti-air assist and one for approaching and the Bella/Band shell is quite strong (plus either character works well as an anchor so you could swap those two about). Only thing it is really lacking is a safe DHC (unless you DHC into Bella lvl 3 or Band lvl 5).