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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

When you type incorrect messages in all caps it makes you sound mad.
wait, does daisy not have invuln?

edit: I'm sorry, it only has 36 frames of complete invulnerability. I was wrong about it being 45.
 
wait, does daisy not have invuln?

edit: I'm sorry, it only has 36 frames of complete invulnerability. I was wrong about it being 45.

SHE HAS A LEVEL 1 SUPER WITH 45 FRAMES OF COMPLETE INVULN THAT YOU HAVE TO JUMP OUT OF OR GET COMBOED WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

You said that you have to jump out of Daisy Pusher or eat a combo. Majority of the characters never have to get hit by daisy pusher as a reversal option she tries to catch a normal.
 
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This unblockable change removes M Chair from the game. Roll it back.

Pretty sure this is intentional; getting near-unblockable setups with multiple characters is kinda dumb, let along a single one. Either way, you can still use M Hurl to end your combo and keep your next mixup relatively safe.
 
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RE: SQ Lvl 3

While I do not like the change, mostly cause I used as a way of keeping myself safe for a tag in or a DHC, I can see why it could be an issue.

I would personally be against it going away if she dies because you are spending meter to make yourself safe on a potential incoming which isn't that unheard of. I don't think it was too bad where it was, however, some suggestions that could remedy the issues.

1. Similar to other games, instead of having this like her level 1's where if she gets touched by supers/snapbacks leaving her susceptible to 1 meter punishes vs some of the cast. Allow it to go away if you hit it somehow, but make it more easily destroyable by everyone in the cast. I'm not sure how this could be implemented in a way that wouldn't require a system mechanic change. Maybe give it two projectile hits or something? or you can hit it with a normal that does over a certain amount (this might be too much IDK)

2. Have it start losing "hits" over time once squigly gets hit or dies until it disappears, similarly to how it loses hits every time it goes offscreen. this way it doesn't just disappear outright but opponents can get rewarded for hitting her. It would not lose hits normally so it could be used as an FU neutral tool (which squigly as a character kind of is), however, if they punish you for it (say they low profile it or something) it would lose 1 hit per 8f frames of duration and once it reaches "0 hits", it disappears in the same way it does when it hits something. It would at most only last for 64f after squigly got punished, towards the end it wouldn't give that much hitstun and blockstun, and this isn't including the "hits" it already loses for going off screen. This encourages using it safely to get the most benefit for setups and not just mashing, however, this also gives her a good reversal, which IMO she needs as a consistent/reliable option, that is punishable by people if they suspect her mashing it.

3. Give it an overall time limit. Yes, this is a nerf to the move overall (I thought this is what we were trying to do) having this gets rid of a lot of issues mostly along the terms of an infinitely homing gigantic FU hitbox on the screen. I personally don't like this one but meeeehh.

That being said I can understand both sides on this issue as the counterplay for this move is kind of null cause of the homing/infinite nature of the move. Improving this to make this option not only fun to use but also fun to play against makes the game better overall.
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How would other Parasoul players feel about increasing the blockstun of cMK by 2f and increasing the recovery by 2f. I believe this would be good as it would fit the normal in with how the flow of the other mediums.

sMP block strings into heavies, and with a tear block strings into command heavies (BHK and FHP)
sMK block strings into all of her heavies including these
cMP doesn't block string into anything (no heavies or point blank tear)
fMP hits low and is a command normal, as such it does not go into any heavies (except cHP and sHK) on its own however with the added tear it can block string into all of her.
cMK hits low but is only able to block string into tear at point blank range, sHK (meaning in order to get to tear you have to do 7HK), cHP.

This change would allow her to block string into her all of her heavy buttons and not her command normal heavy buttons. Allowing her to follow similar rules to her fMP w/ tear which is her other medium that hits low. This is similar to how her standing normals work where sMP connects with all her heavies just like sMK does normally but only with a tear. This would also fix the weird thing where cLP>sweep is true but not cMK>sweep. cMK, however, is significantly faster than fMP which makes fMP good for frame traps etc and cMK good as a second mix up. This would also allow a tear to block string at slightly larger distances. That being said pbgc would still beat it (as it already does) but it would clean up some hole when adding a very nice choice of what to use in a block string.

Note: I know I've mentioned this before like a week or two ago however no one actually said anything about it so I'm not sure if anyone actually saw it or thought is it was good/had problems with it.
 
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so there's this tweet/video


i understand why the first clip gets blocked, since thats how the change is supposed to work. but in the notes the change is worded like

"After any blocked high or low hit, further high/low hits from any different sprite are defended against for 18f"

so why is overhead from beo, then low from beo, autoblocked?

This unblockable change removes M Chair from the game. Roll it back.

still covers your mixup, still gets you the first high/low if you delay so the chair hits first. you can make the first hit as ambiguous as you want, just now the 2nd hit isn't unblockable
 
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so why is overhead from beo, then low from beo, autoblocked?
Overhead (First sprite) > Overhead (New sprite, it's the chair) autoblock > Low (New sprite compared to the last one which was the chair, it's now the point) autoblock.
If it was High > Low > Chair it wouldn't autoblock the low because that's two hits from the same sprite in a row.

I think Fukua doing Jump in > H Shadow release > cLK will function the same way.
 
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@Broken Loose fortune head deactivates when fortune gets hit. m chair does not. go into lab and test it. you can reply to me in the thread btw you dont have to subtweet it
 
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If we're actually trying to remove pseudo-unblockables from the game, it's probably worth mentioning that these land-cancel setups still exist:


does that unblockable work on everybody or only on certain characters?
 
RE: Para stuff
Alright fine I guess
*continues to be salty*
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L/R unreactables

Literally, the only way I could see you fixing that is crossup protection which means we are now in full anime game status
 
Wait wait wait.

To bring this all back. This was designed to deal with
- FINALLY fixed certain types of delayed setups that are humanly unblockable (Peacock okizeme meaty slide + L George + Lv3 item drop, for example). After any blocked high or low hit, further high/low hits from any different sprite are defended against for 18f even after hitstop, and this period is extended by further hitstop from new hits that occur during it. The exception is 2 hits in a row from the point character, like a c.LK->c.MK or j.LP->j.LK, where you must block both hits correctly. Any combination of point-then-[projectile or assist], or projectiles and assists together without any point character hits, is protected against.

NOT L/R, unreactables(?!). Can we focus on that specifically instead of venturing into things unrelated?
 
Can we focus on that specifically instead of venturing into things unrelated?

Like your quote says, the change was meant to deal with setups that are humanly unblockable. These are similarly unblockable in that unless you know that the setup is coming and know the timing for when to change your block direction, you are going to get hit.
 
does that unblockable work on everybody or only on certain characters?
I only tested the Squigly setup on Bella, though I suspect you could alter the timing to work on other characters.
I'm pretty sure @mcpeanuts's setup is universal.
 
Like your quote says, the change was meant to deal with setups that are humanly unblockable. These are similarly unblockable in that unless you know that the setup is coming and know the timing for when to change your block direction, you are going to get hit.
- FINALLY fixed certain types of delayed setups that are humanly unblockable (Peacock okizeme meaty slide + L George + Lv3 item drop, for example).

I meant the thing in parenthesis. Unless you wanted to discuss that then feel free to do so!
 
Parasoul mains confirmed on pressing the Deal button instead of choosing another 2 brief cases with the 1 000 000 dollars :3

what if the briefcases have snakes

and even if you take the deal, snakes are sometimes delivered to your house anyways
 
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znOWMjA.png


parasoul is fine. im really happy with her changes rn.
 
I meant the thing in parenthesis. Unless you wanted to discuss that then feel free to do so!

Okay, this is getting silly.

The game already has high-low unblockable protection. As I understand it, that type of setup is a way to circumvent that protection, resulting in a setup that is almost impossible to block.
The game also has crossup protection for characters that are in blockstun. Land-cancel setups are a way to circumvent that protection, resulting in a setup that is almost impossible to block.

Surely you can see the similarities here. Now I'm all for discussing one thing at a time, and it was not my intention to derail the original discussion. I just want to make sure we don't forget that both types of setups exist. Because to me, dealing with one and not the other is a little silly.
 
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Excuse me? Is this supposed to be some sort of vague threat? It comes off like your justification for us appreciating a nerf is that you didn't nerf it harder.
It's explaining my thought process. It's not a threat, because you-the-players don't have any choice - in the end it's my decision. Don't forget that. SG's more collaborative than other games, but in the end nobody is making decisions but me.
If people would rather I not explain my reasoning then I can stop, but I thought that was what was preferred.

Though if you in particular don't appreciate that something that was nerfed wasn't nerfed without a reason, you might want to re-examine your approach.

@Mike_Z
This unblockable change removes M Chair from the game. Roll it back.
Hyperbole is extremely not appreciated in a thread dedicated to actually improving the game. That IS a threat. >:^}

Squigly's level 3 is just a 3 meter Catellites that can be used as a DP as well
I hope you are aware that this sentiment expresses the opposite of what you intended it to. :^P

Can we pin off Moonsault if we have three levels of hype?
Like...from the slam itself? He's not throwing you, so that's actually a gigantic pain in the butt to implement, otherwise I already would have.

the thing im most curious about is why this change is necessary when absolute guard lets you do a similar thing if you can block the first hit. switching in 2f i absolutely understand since that's extremely difficult to execute even with absolute guard, but is there a reason to extend it beyond the reasonable window it would take a human to input that?
Nope!
Reason for the new thing existing at all:
Mids in between two high/low hits disable the original unblockable protection. Peacock by herself in Retail has a possible setup that is humanly unblockable off a throw. Fukua with held shadows and an assist now has several (either a high/low shadow and a mid assist, or a mid shadow and a high/low assist) off any reset she chooses if she didn't call an assist in the previous combo. And it turns out most characters have some method of doing this with the correct assists into a reset (for example, L George and anything low/high). The new method is necessary, and extending the window to 9f is probably warranted.

Reason for it being 18f and extended by hitstop from other hits in the first test:
Mostly because I wanted to get the build out, but also because I wanted to make it apparent enough to be sure it worked. And hey, if it somehow DIDN'T suck, great. (It did, though.) The next version will be vastly improved, but I have proof the tech does what it's supposed to. :^P

Like your quote says, the change was meant to deal with setups that are humanly unblockable. These are similarly unblockable in that unless you know that the setup is coming and know the timing for when to change your block direction, you are going to get hit.
They are not the same thing, not even remotely. These are tricky and unexpected, sure, but not humanly unblockable. These are tricky because you expect to continue blocking, but if you know about these, you CAN block them. If you know about Peacock's setup, you are still getting hit by it unless you switch your block direction inside a specific 2f window. Eddie's "unblockables" in Guilty Gear are possible to block if you switch in that same window, and they're referred to as unblockables.

These do not require you to change your blocking direction within 2f of each other. Squigly's j.MK is 19f between the hits, and Double's requires you to go through c.HP hitstop while in a block frame no matter what even if you land on the very next frame. In fact, in both cases, the elapsed time is longer than the original high-low unblockable protection SG has...whereas the things I'm attempting to fix are much quicker than that.
 
(Posting this here because it's not a bug and I don't have permission to post in Beta Discussion. If it's inappropriate, sorry.)

This is probably really late to ask (and extremely low priority) but on Nightmare AI Double-bot quite often finishes combos with Hornet Bomber. Would it be possible to get her to follow up with Bandwagon Rushdown?
 
Why is Beowulf back to getting 2 hype when landing on the chair?
Now he does almost 8k into hard knockdown for no meter and no hype while also getting the chair back.
?
 
Is that not the case?
Can't you do killa + assist on the chair, get 2 hype levels and do ex finisher into ex slam?
You must mean if he already placed the chair previously, then?
Because if you want to do it in the same combo, Killa + assist on the chair requires a catch from chairless j.HP, you can't call assists during grab mode jumps, and calling assists before you jump is much too slow except for special cases like Lv3 SoID.
The only way to combo into j.HP->Killa+chair when chairless, without assists or hype, is your first c.HP -> [OTG j.HP or j.LP->HP]: s.HK stagger doesn't combo to j.HP if they shake, L chair toss is techable, and H chair toss to dash-jump j.HP doesn't have the chair ready by the time you land. Then you have the chair and have used your OTG (by doing Killa), so you can't combo back into chairless without a chair toss.

The most I've been able to find is c.LK->c.MP->s.HK xx L toss, dash j.MP, s.HK xx Wulf Shoot, Kneex4 Headbutt, c.MP->c.HP, j.HP -> Killa'+Pilla', c.LP->s.LK->c.MP->s.HK xx L toss, s.HP Knee EX Wulfdog, EX Press, which is 7.6k. A basic meterless Big Band combo with assist into H Train does the same amount. And it is still a far cry from him being able to loop Press mixups at max Undizzy.

I may disagree with him getting 2 hype for other reasons, but not this one.
 
c.LK->c.MP->s.HK xx L toss, dash j.MP, s.HK xx Wulf Shoot, Kneex4 Headbutt, c.MP->c.HP, j.HP -> Killa'+Pilla', c.LP->s.LK->c.MP->s.HK xx L toss, s.HP Knee EX Wulfdog, EX Press, which is 7.6k.

That's what I meant. I can't test it right now but wouldn't he be able to do like: clk cmp shk l chair dash jump jlk jhp killa + assist shp ex wulfdog ex press and loop it at max undizzy?

Edit: Maybe the chair doesn't recover in time, I'm pretty sure it can be done with another combo, though.
 
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That's what I meant. I can't test it right now but wouldn't he be able to do like: clk cmp shk l chair dash jump jlk jhp killa + assist shp ex wulfdog ex press and loop it at max undizzy?
Edit: Maybe the chair doesn't recover in time, I'm pretty sure it can be done with another combo, though.
Not at max undizzy, you get exactly one chain after ...s.HK L chair, so you need to use that chain to give yourself the j.HP which means it has to be like walk forward c.MP->c.HP, j.HP -> Killa+assist. And since you get the chair back and have used your OTG and your chains, you can't hit them again after the assist or they can burst. You can't even do another L chair.
 
So uhh...any other Fortune want to comment on the changes?

Regardless of what zooms input is, I think there's going to be overlap with other inputs. I honestly liked the first head movement options more by far, the only thing that needed to be fixed about them was getting accidental headbutt sometimes. It's honestly really hard to find a solution, because regardless of what happens we'll have to retrain our execution. With Fortune doing stuff like zoom loops with rekka, and having to input Fiber Upper and or Axe Kick (or even like s.HK xx LK Fiber) after hitting with them zoom it's gonna take some execution practice to get used to it regardless.

Personally I still think QCF for zoom is worth a shot.

edit: Honestly I'd be perfectly fine with it just working the way it did before, or implement what @Stuff suggested. That method of moving the head felt very good to me.
 
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I believe George's day out should be a default assist.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
That's what I meant. I can't test it right now but wouldn't he be able to do like: clk cmp shk l chair dash jump jlk jhp killa + assist shp ex wulfdog ex press and loop it at max undizzy?

Edit: Maybe the chair doesn't recover in time, I'm pretty sure it can be done with another combo, though.

You can't loop this. You only get 1 hype from killa.
 
You can use shp or jhp
I guess it needs a pretty specifc assist though, I've tried a few: pillar, beat extend and beam work.
This is really misleading considering the damage ratio, you made it look like he was getting 6.5k into hard knockdown off a low at max undizzy, when in reality it's 5k and I'm not sure what your point is, this is a gimmick combo that requires one of very few assists and has nothing to do with getting 2 hype from landing on the chair. The combo you showed is possible even in the LAST version of the update. I just don't understand what point you're trying to make is anymore. You were making a comment about his combo ability at no undizzy and his ability to do damage and gain hype from a basic combo but now you posted a max undizzy loop?
If they block your 1 mix up you're back to basic strings with 0 hype again because you were only gaining it from that combo and only gained that hype IF you had 0 hype to start, so if you start that string with 1 hype or 0 hype you are putting all of your resources into the idea that you WILL hit your mix up from hard knock down and won't get blocked.

If this string of max undizzy beowulf j.hp into assist hit grab hard knock down was so broken people would have been doing it in retail where this would work AND do more damage, but I can't think of a single beowulf player who did because I guess no one wants to run an assist for a gimmick set up.
 
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Also, I wouldn't call pillar a gimmick assist, you can also do it with beat extend, brass and beam, which are all used very often.

Sorry about the ratio.
You can't do this same thing with brass.. it makes them fly away to the point you would need another string or be near the corner to do something like this with brass. If you CAN do it its definitely not universal because I've tried making combos like that before.

edit: And you can't do it with beam I thought at least not when I tried a while ago.
editedit: Guess I was wrong albeit you have to do it with completely different timing and ONLY with a dash jump on most characters which are things he didn't specify. :P
 
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You can't do this same thing with brass.. it makes them fly away to the point you would need another string or be near the corner to do something like this with brass. If you CAN do it its definitely not universal because I've tried making combos like that before.
I don't know if it's universal but I tested this on filia, bella, squigly, big band and eliza, it worked on all of them.
Edit: about beam, you have to call it before doing the finisher, please use training mode.
 
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I don't know if it's universal but I tested this on filia, bella, squigly, big band and eliza, it worked on all of them.
Interesting, the idea that it works on Eliza is what surprises me most because she was always the odd one out on falling out of beobrass combos so that's quite something to hear.
It still doesn't look worth it to me personally getting 5.4k with brass and potentially having 0 hype just for a mix up, but that's my own personal value on hard knock down since I definitely don't see it as a guaranteed hit.

I'm not sure what you'd want to do about this considering everything. Mike could remove the free hype from none chaired finishers but that would really hurt other beowulf players who DONT do this particular set up, so I'm not sure honestly.
 
I'm not sure what you'd want to do about this considering everything. Mike could remove the free hype from none chaired finishers but that would really hurt other beowulf players who DONT do this particular set up, so I'm not sure honestly.

Don't know, Mike wants to remove hard knockdown loops because they're boring, so I pointed it out.