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Double general discussion!

joshb911 said:
So I just wanted to ask a generic question here. What is the general opinion on cilia slide assist? I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss something in my analysis of the move.
It's one of those assists that is "cool in combos but not that useful in neutral." It would probably catch people off guard if you used it kinda like how people use french twist and cremation assists. Cilia slide in this case trades being super fast/long range in exchange for not doubling as a lockdown and (usually) using up your otg.
 
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joshb911 said:
So I just wanted to ask a generic question here. What is the general opinion on cilia slide assist? I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss something in my analysis of the move.
Use Cilia slide to convert off Diamond Dynamo and Diamond Drop.
 
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pcamble91 said:
Any tips on fighting BB with double i find the matchup kinda weird
1st off, Do you have Double combos for BB?
 
Well, It's best to be patient and wait while doing Lugers and j.HKs. If they're doing Giant Steps and Brass, It's best to use j.HP catiously. If they're doing A-Train, Just Flesh Step/Foward Dash and do c.LK.
 
I think Double vs BB is a harder matchup after playing it about 1000 times. I do a lot of empty jumps to bait out a trains and try to be conservative with my lugers since brass powers right through it and it's not particularly difficult to parry.

A riskier but often effective option is to fish for a Cilia Slide. It breaks armor and thanks to monster you can get a lot off of it in beta, so try that some. My midrange pressure game usually consists of c.hp > m luger poking and dash in c.lk. I try to be careful about j.hp because it feels like beat extend always manages to bite me, although i may be just a bit off in my spacing. Use instant j.lp and all that for mixups.

As for combos I usually just do flesh step loops or in beta TK fridge route.
 
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pcamble91 said:
its not the combos i have problems with its how you go about approaching BB


You can block during your forward dash if you hold backwards. This is a good way to approach turtle BBs that just want to runaway and try to make you guess between A-train or brass or giant step. This is even better if you use button dash>neutral>back, since you dont waste valuable frames being vulnerable during a forward forward input.
 
Dolfinh said:
I think Double vs BB is a harder matchup after playing it about 1000 times. I do a lot of empty jumps to bait out a trains and try to be conservative with my lugers since brass powers right through it and it's not particularly difficult to parry.

A riskier but often effective option is to fish for a Cilia Slide. It breaks armor and thanks to monster you can get a lot off of it in beta, so try that some. My midrange pressure game usually consists of c.hp > m luger poking and dash in c.lk. I try to be careful about j.hp because it feels like beat extend always manages to bite me, although i may be just a bit off in my spacing. Use instant j.lp and all that for mixups.

As for combos I usually just do flesh step loops or in beta TK fridge route.
i think im going to try the slide more often i tend to forget its even a move she has lol
 
Is Catheads good enough to have part of a team built around it? I'm thinking of playing Fortune/Double/BigBand and part of the general gameplan of the team was that Fortune builds meter and when I get Double in (still thinking about how that could work since doing DHC's would negate the idea of using catheads a lot) I use lots of Catheads based mixups (kind of like Strider/Doom MVC2 lockdown, except nowhere near as scary I suppose). Does Catheads costing 2 meters still make that strategy worth it?
 
Wouldn't the current best chip team without peacock be Robo/Double/Eliza (H laser, Hk Bomber, Hk Twirl). To get the chip setup you can do s.hp on block to level 1 super - catheads, then just call hk twirl while chipping with catheads.
 
cloudKing211 said:
Wouldn't the current best chip team without peacock be Robo/Double/Eliza (H laser, Hk Bomber, Hk Twirl). To get the chip setup you can do s.hp on block to level 1 super - catheads, then just call hk twirl while chipping with catheads.
twirl does more chip than butcher blade?
 
cloudKing211 said:
Wouldn't the current best chip team without peacock be Robo/Double/Eliza (H laser, Hk Bomber, Hk Twirl). To get the chip setup you can do s.hp on block to level 1 super - catheads, then just call hk twirl while chipping with catheads.
Woofly sometimes plays Squigly/Liza/Soul with HK Spiral assist on Liza.
I don't know much about Robo but she clearly is too unfinished to deal a lot of chip.. Beam is only going to carry you so far.
Parasoul doesn't add much here chipwise, so perhaps Squigly/Double/Liza instead? That would make the team overall worse, though.

Anyhow he will land a hit and get you into the corner and then cycle Spiral assist with Arpeggio and SBO + occasional Tremolo thrown in and it's kind of a mess to get out of that
 
Dolfinh said:
I think Double vs BB is a harder matchup after playing it about 1000 times. I do a lot of empty jumps to bait out a trains and try to be conservative with my lugers since brass powers right through it and it's not particularly difficult to parry.

A riskier but often effective option is to fish for a Cilia Slide. It breaks armor and thanks to monster you can get a lot off of it in beta, so try that some. My midrange pressure game usually consists of c.hp > m luger poking and dash in c.lk. I try to be careful about j.hp because it feels like beat extend always manages to bite me, although i may be just a bit off in my spacing. Use instant j.lp and all that for mixups.

As for combos I usually just do flesh step loops or in beta TK fridge route.

Cilia slide against BB wears itself out pretty quickly, but it's good to remember it as an option. The biggest issue with it is that BB's high risk/reward options don't really favor Double at any point if she fucks up her own commitments. I generally still commit to lugers if I have the meter to convert luger car > gregor as he's not getting out of it if he's committed to brass already, but before I have those meters it's really just waiting for him to fuck up his fullscreen guesses or interrupting his offense with assist calls, reversals, and pbgcs.

Luger Car > DHC being important to have at fullscreen is also why I'd recommend just using fleshstep route confirms and saving meter as opposed to slide > monster.

As for baiting Beat Extends, relatively little harm in empty jumping forward unless they're really committing to wakeup A-Train on a read. If he does bite with BE, you can falling jLK jMK consistently after blocking the beat extend, and in the worst case scenario where you somehow don't get the hit, he's gotta guess on jLK jMK(2) or jLK jMK(1) fast fall > low/throw/block.

If he has a good horizontal assist and doesn't commit to things much, yeah getting in is obnoxious and you're usually doing it on his terms. When you do get in though, he is super susceptible to instant overheads and reversal baits, and people often forget how nasty/prolonged Double's pressure can be with her air normals.
 
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Hilary said:
Cilia slide against BB wears itself out pretty quickly, but it's good to remember it as an option. The biggest issue with it is that BB's high risk/reward options don't really favor Double at any point if she fucks up her own commitments. I generally still commit to lugers if I have the meter to convert luger car > gregor as he's not getting out of it if he's committed to brass already, but before I have those meters it's really just waiting for him to fuck up his fullscreen guesses or interrupting his offense with assist calls, reversals, and pbgcs.

Luger Car > DHC being important to have at fullscreen is also why I'd recommend just using fleshstep route confirms and saving meter as opposed to slide > monster.

As for baiting Beat Extends, relatively little harm in empty jumping forward unless they're really committing to wakeup A-Train on a read. If he does bite with BE, you can falling jLK jMK consistently after blocking the beat extend, and in the worst case scenario where you somehow don't get the hit, he's gotta guess on jLK jMK(2) or jLK jMK(1) fast fall > low/throw/block.

If he has a good horizontal assist and doesn't commit to things much, yeah getting in is obnoxious and you're usually doing it on his terms. When you do get in though, he is super susceptible to instant overheads and reversal baits, and people often forget how nasty/prolonged Double's pressure can be with her air normals.
when they have an assist to back them up i find myself counter calling them and baiting them to beat on my assist its like BB players have to beat down the assist thats another way of opening them up i guess
 
What is the best way to engage in an air-to-air fight?
I use J.Hp almost everytime an enemy is in the air, but I am curious if J.mp or maybe even J.lk would be better in some situations. What would those situations be?
 
j.MP is the like the 3rd option to use. j.HK is like the alternative and it's better the j.HP in situations.
 
LugerSpamDouble said:
What is the best way to engage in an air-to-air fight?
I use J.Hp almost everytime an enemy is in the air, but I am curious if J.mp or maybe even J.lk would be better in some situations. What would those situations be?

Use j.MP and j.LP when you're preemptively beating someone elses air option. j.HP should be used when you think someone is going to stay on the ground.
 
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Krackatoa said:
Use j.MP and j.LP when you're preemptively beating someone elses air option. j.HP should be used when you think someone is going to stay on the ground.

This for sure, J.HP is also a good option if you say to yourself "he's gonna jump that upbacking fuck" and if you time it right it should keep them blocking.
 
LugerSpamDouble said:
What is the best way to engage in an air-to-air fight?
I use J.Hp almost everytime an enemy is in the air, but I am curious if J.mp or maybe even J.lk would be better in some situations. What would those situations be?

jMP is really nice to run away with and fall on top of an approaching character.

jLP is nice for raw startup speed in a lot of scenarios.

jLK can be cool for the disjointed box, but the angle kinda requires you to already be in the air above them, moving away from them, etc.

If you're losing air to airs against things like Squigly jLK, Para jLP, or Fukua jLP, stay on the ground and H-Luger > Pray
 
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How to use doubles jump attacks... A small guide:


"Jhp" use in most situations as it is good as an air to air because of its combination of range and disjointed hitbox and speed. Can also be used as a pushblock bait by cancelling the move early, into a jhk.


"Jhk" use it as a method of controlling space while jumping backwards and as a makeshift rushdown tool when double has the opponent cornered because it can be tricky to pushblock correctly.


"Jmp" use when the spacing is to close to use jhp and the jhp would have lost to faster attacks.

"Jmk" use as a movement attack to momentarily suspend double in the air above grounded opponents and as a ranged alternative to jhp that also has high priority when it is fully extended.


"Jlp" use as a crossup when doing up close double jump mixups, use as a fast attack to try and beat other aerial light attacks to the punch, use as a crossup when the ranging on a dash jump is wrong or when someone wants to dash under your double, good to use when double is being pressured via an aerial reset of the dash under variety and other similar circumstances.


"Jlk" good as a neutral jump attack on the way down to pressure a grounded opponent, the best attack to use after a dash jmk is wiffed, because of its speed plus 3 hits, plus range plus downward angle to pressure grounded opponents.... When compared to doubles other air attacks from the same situation.



You can easily just use doubles jhp in 95% of situations and jmp in all the rest, but that makes your double predictable because of the need to always use the correct timing for jhp when at a close range (early) or having to always start attacks from a bit further out.

It is fundamentally sound to play that way, but ultimately predictable which is a major downfall. Spicing up your offense with jmk to change up spacing and landing timings, as well as jhk for pressure, will make your double more all around and harder to defend against in an outside the box way.
 
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Anybody that still plays this character have any advice on fighting fukua. Seems to be the only MU i cant for the life of me figure out. If I try to lame her out with spacing, shadows screw me over. If i try to bum rush her I lose to her better normals. Sometimes it feels like shes just a better version of me. I'm in a rut here.
 
So I have a question regarding Double's assist options. I'm trying to build a team around Beowulf and I started messing with L and M bomber and I like how they work with him but I can't decide. Which Double assists do Double players tend to gravitate towards?
 
It really really depends on your team comp. Really. L, M, and H bomber all have their places, slide has it's place too.
Those are the most common AFAIK. I have seen luger and stuff. etc.

For Beo? The way I play him? I would default to MBomber I guess, I'm used to the lockdown aspect and I like Beo/Lockdown, but L could work well for that too. I wouldn't use H.
Slide is probably cool if you're creative. It's a low too.
I dunno about any luger assists being useful for him.
 
M was the one that I was kind of feeling at first. It seems nice to support him from a range but can still give him some lockdown. Idk it just feels good with his range.
 
I ran into a problem last night I wasn't sure what to do about, was hoping some pro Double players have some tips. I kept having a problem against Fukua where after my Beat Extend assist was blocked I would go to check with c.LK, but Fukua would do instant j.HK and hit both characters. I know I'm at frame advantage there but I can't stop Fukua from jumping forward and doing j.HK with my c.LK. c.HP also did not work. I labbed it and there's some stuff that works, but I didn't find anything that seemed like a good option if Fukua just stays there and blocks (like, I don't want to whiff an air grab right in front of her or anything like that). Anyone got any advice?
 
mcpeanuts said:
I ran into a problem last night I wasn't sure what to do about, was hoping some pro Double players have some tips. I kept having a problem against Fukua where after my Beat Extend assist was blocked I would go to check with c.LK, but Fukua would do instant j.HK and hit both characters. I know I'm at frame advantage there but I can't stop Fukua from jumping forward and doing j.HK with my c.LK. c.HP also did not work. I labbed it and there's some stuff that works, but I didn't find anything that seemed like a good option if Fukua just stays there and blocks (like, I don't want to whiff an air grab right in front of her or anything like that). Anyone got any advice?

My advice would be continue pressure/bait reversal if the pushblock BE assist, and back dash m/h luger if they dont pushblock it. The hitstun is much less without a pushblock, so if they just block it, fukua can j.hk you unless you time it really well. Fukuas j.hk is pretty fast. so avoiding it after the be extend is blocked is solid option. backdash h luger after blocked BE with when you are near the point will beat fukua j.hk so that is an option, and if they just block then they block the h luger and have to hold the next mixup. Just be careful if they pb hluger and you will be fine

Tldr, backdash h luger beats instant fukua j.hk after a blocked beat extend, will give you a mixup if they just down back and block the luger, and a slightly riskier mixup if they pushblock it.
 
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Awesome! Thanks Cloud, I'll practice that.
 
I'm a liar btw I apparently did not test c.HP. It beats instant j.HK for free and gets you a ground bounce for an easy combo. That might be the best option after all.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
I ran into a problem last night I wasn't sure what to do about, was hoping some pro Double players have some tips. I kept having a problem against Fukua where after my Beat Extend assist was blocked I would go to check with c.LK, but Fukua would do instant j.HK and hit both characters. I know I'm at frame advantage there but I can't stop Fukua from jumping forward and doing j.HK with my c.LK. c.HP also did not work. I labbed it and there's some stuff that works, but I didn't find anything that seemed like a good option if Fukua just stays there and blocks (like, I don't want to whiff an air grab right in front of her or anything like that). Anyone got any advice?

See if H-Gun/M-Gun steps back far enough so that Band catches the hurtbox with double out of the way. M-Gun on block in that scenario should be relatively safe even if they end up chicken blocking it, H-Gun on block if they didn't jump should be plus if it connects after the shot rebound.

The "kara" step back on shot is really underrated, and on trades you get an OTG conversion.
 
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@Double Doll you have force counter hit on so you start with -50 undizzy try that without counter hit on.
 
Stupid Question: I notice that when Doubles players get a Titan Knuckle in the corner, they Flesh step twice, then do a J.Hk. Is there a specific timing thing that this is for?
 
flesh step c.lk but its really tight. it sucks. but i am curious you say "everyone else seems rather easy" but there are like 3-4 chars i can't get an otg-less combo off of throw on so you might already have better methods
 
aight here's a question; how reliable is mizuumi for learning double? anything that's on there/not on there that's absolutely crucial? already learned/gone through barrel loop bnb and started learning some dirty shmixture resets
 
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