All IAD + Similar Overhead Move's Speeds

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by Liam, Oct 9, 2015.

  1. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    Hello I would like to list the speed of everyone's IAD and similar style overheads to cover the most common ones.
    These were calculated using frame advance on a debug build for Skullgirls.

    -

    Different characters have different IAD j[N] speeds.

    Filia's IAD jLK is 17F startup.
    It hits on the 18th frame.
    You have 17 frames to react to it and block high.

    The formula for IAD's is:
    (4F PREJUMP) + (IAD LOCKOUT) + (1F IAD START UP) + (AIR NORMAL)

    8F IAD Lockout:

    Ms. Fortune (Headless)
    Peacock
    Valentine
    Eliza
    6F IAD Lockout:

    Ms.Fortune (Head On)​

    5F IAD Lockout:

    Filia
    So for Filia...
    IAD jLK - 17F
    (4) + (5) + (1) + (7)
    IAD jLP - 17F
    (4) + (5) + (1) + (7)
    IAD jMK - 21F
    (4) + (5) + (1) + (11)
    IAD jHP - 20F
    (4) + (5) + (1) + (10)
    Etc...​
    Beowulf's hopdash is 6F startup.
    Hopdash overhead speed is 6F + normal startup.


    Useful List:

    Eliza IAD jLK - 20F

    Headless Fortune IAD jLK - 21F
    Head On Fortune IAD jLK - 19F

    Peacock IAD jLP - 22F

    Beowulf Hopdash jLP - 14F ........

    Parasoul Instant j2MK - 11F

    Cerebella Instant jHP - 19F
    Cerebella Instant j2MP - 15F

    Big Band Instant jMK - 15F

    Eliza Instant jHP - 23F

    Painwheel FC jLP - 23F > 20F In 2E+
    Painwheel Stinger Cancel jLP - 18F Removed from game.

    Valentine BackDash ForwardDash jLP - 15F > ?F In 2E+
    Valentine BackDash ForwardDash jLK - 17F > ?F In 2E+
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
    ClarenceMage likes this.
  2. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

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    Valentine
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    Would you count instant Parasoul jdMK?
     
  3. Kyugetsuki

    Kyugetsuki aspiring game dev-ish~

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    Painwheel
    Unknown
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    Big Band's j.mk
     
  4. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Squiglys jlp

    Also painwheels overheads change frame data depending on if they were canceled into from a special move and what exactky that special move was.


    Regular flight into df jlk is 25 frames, and 1 frame faster if using jlp.
     
  5. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    I only care about Big Band jMK out of any of those.

    Edit: Yay we have one of them now.

    Super Edit: I don't care about Fuzzy's.
     
    gllt likes this.
  6. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

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    Fortune's iad jLK is 18f(?) (I don't know if frameskip is goofing on me or not)
    Headless iad jLK is 20f

    I've only been re-recording the iad jLK and comparing each video and 18f seems to be the most common recording I get.

    (also according to the way I do it filia's iad jLK is 16f so take this with a grain of salt)

    edit: also this can probably help?
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Game_Systems/Movement#Air_Dash
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  7. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    Aaaaa I want this to be super accurate.
    When counting Filia's is it 16 frames until the hit or 16 frames of start up before it hits?
     
  8. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

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    Oh it seems I miscounted on Filia's jLK it's actually 17f. I did further testing and it's 16f for sure and I'm counting before it's active. That's the right way to do it right?

    Fortune's is still 18f and headless' is 20f I went ahead and recounted those too I can also just upload each frame now that I think of it

    Edit: here's the gallery for filia's jLK frame skip was the least mean to this one. I also got like one extra frame of airdash there.

    but what's been the most consistent is that filia always airdashes 5 frames after pre jump which is 4f and jLK is 7f so mathematically it has to be 16f. unless we're counting to active frames then it's 17f.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  9. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    Yeah, so it's a '17 Frame Overhead' which means you have 16 frames to react, and you can punish something -17 with it, I guess?

    I think we should list them by how many frames until its first active hitbox, that seems easier.
    That's how Mike did it too.

    Does that change your Fortune and Headless Fortune data?
     
  10. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

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    Yep! That makes it 19f and 21f.

    That's even if I understood what you mean by 'until first active hitbox' because I read it as 'before you see the red hitboxes show up' and on fortune it doesn't go red until frame 19 for head-on and frame 21 for headless so red on 19 and 21
     
  11. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    First Active Hitbox = When the red box on advanced frame data displays.

    [][][][][][]
    |///////[]

    This is a 6F overhead by our definition now.

    I'll update Fortunes.

    EDIT:
    THIS IS ALL WRONG AND HORRIBLE NOTATION.
    [][][][][][]
    |///////[]

    = 5F startup, 6F active.
    = 5F overhead.

    Tomo is correct.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
  12. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Why, we've kept away from SF notation all this time, why are we changing now
     
  13. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

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    Cerebella's instant elbow drop.
     
  14. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

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    How about eliza instant jHP?
     
  15. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
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    Fukua
    No, seriously, it should work the way it works in game on the frame data display.
    Having it be different here would be to confusing.
     
  16. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    It's the other way now.
    Is this 25F of start up or it hits on the 25th frame.
     
  17. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Is it? I need to check this out when I have time.


    All else being equal if my old times are correct then flight is 15 frame startup from the ground (10 frames if being canceled into from stinger, iirc)

    And jlk hits on the tenth frame. Which is 25 frames... To hit.

    Iirc this can be checked via the green frame counter at the top of the advanced data ticker since you can count every frame of startup and the first active.
     
  18. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    Yep, I know.
    I meant I changed it.
     
  19. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Oh ok then. Yes it is 24 frames of startup not counting the first active.
     
  20. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
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    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
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    I figured that the extra 1 frame (4f jump start + 7f normal + 5f IAD limit would only be 16f) was 1f of Dashing, since you can't cancel the Airdash on frame 0
    So the 17f Filia IAD jLK would hit on the 18th frame

    IF it's 17f with SF notation and Mike just mangled up, then say it's 16 and adjust everything else accordingly
    Would be exceptionally stupid to use one kind of notation for IADs and another for everything else.
     
  21. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

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    It's 4 frames of prejump then 4 of the jump animation then 1 of the dash then the normal itself in this case jLP so 7 and that makes 16. But it's okay it's already been edited.

    Also if anyone is really good at beo hopdash jLP could you verify that the fastest time to get is 13f? I'm not very good at this and can't manage anything faster.

    Edit: Doesn't Big Band instant jMK have to wait for prejump to end in order to even do a normal? 'Cause that would make it 15 not 11.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
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  22. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    Why did I write 11, lol.
    Fixed.
     
  23. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    Ms. Fortune
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    Thank you for this information, it is very useful!
     
  24. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Also @Skarmand
    Painwheels flight cancels get 5 frames quicker when canceling from m or h stinger. So 18 frame startup is her fastest overhead from the ground.
     
  25. VIVIT_rv00

    VIVIT_rv00 Pillar assist dependant man

    Steam:
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    Valentine
    Parasoul
    Valentine's backdash seems to be airborne on frame 7, air action cancellable on frame 8, so if my SG math doesn't suck & my test methods aren't flawed IAD jLP has 7(bd) + 1(ad) + 7(jLP) frames of startup, making her BD~IAD jLP hit on Frame 16, with 15 frames of startup.
    Keep in mind that IAD jLP is kind of finicky to hit on some shorter crouchers, where it may hit on its later active frames (adding up to 3f startup), or not at all. Also keep in mind that its more complicated input Here's all her air normals assuming my BD~IAD math is right

    IBD~AD jLP: 15f, can whiff depending on spacing
    IBD~AD jLK: 17f, short range & tends to hit on later active frames
    IBD~AD jMP: 18f, arguably most stable option
    IBD~AD jMK: 20f, lands before 2nd hit with perfect timing
    IBD~AD jHP: lands before hitting with perfect timing
    IBD~AD jHK: 25f, lands before 2nd hit with perfect timing
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
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  26. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

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    I think fortune's doublejump j.lk is 16f, but that may be wrong...
     
  27. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

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    Thread updated!
    I got a hold of frame advance and really looked into this.

    Turns out I was wrong on a couple.

    Current list should be totally up to date.

    One thing that's interesting is QCF QCB K + P is a stinger cancel.
    If you have time to pump a QCF before all your flight inputs and then use a punch along with the kick, you'll get faster flight cancels so you get faster overheads.
    It's really easy too.

    The Stinger code is run, and then the Flight code runs after it since Stinger is before Flight, this makes the Flight a Stinger cancel even though it's the same frame.
     
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