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Another Training Diary zzz

SScrux

SScrux

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Ms. Fortune Fukua Double
Hey there. This first post is very outdated! Obviously.

SG is my first fighter. I started playing SG a few months ago - May 2014. I run a Fukua/Double team. I like these characters and the way they play. I've grown really fond of them.

I Character Crisis

The first subject I should be writing about is this character crisis I've been dealing with for pretty long already. I can't seem to find a third likeable character to play and add to my team. I've tried all the characters, especially Filia, Peacock, and currently Squigly. But eh, my neutral game is horrible with Squigly. My Squigly feels handicapped, even after so many weeks of getting used to her already.

Why did I drop Filia? Because she frustrated me. I hated how every target needed its own timing for combos and stuff. I couldn't even iAD properly anyway and my neutral game with Filia was even more horrible. Perhaps I gave up too fast.
Peacock..what a lovely character. Prolly my fave from the whole cast because of her theme and personality. Her gameplay bores me, though.

I suck at anything but "double jumping characters". Yeah sure, I can do some airdashing but it feels frustrating and less comfortable than just..double jumping. Well okay, I either need to deal with that or look at the next problem I've encountered: charge characters like Parasoul. That is something compleeeetely new to me, since I've never played Street Fighter or anything. It feels like my brain is too slow to realize I wanna charge up a certain move in this string of attacks I'm doing, often resulting into me being too late to perform said charge move. Do I need more practice? Or are charge characters just nothing for me? That's the question.

II Current mains and their gameplay

I guess I am okay with how I play at the moment. Sure, there's always room for improvement and you'll discover new things every week. Though, right now, I can say I need to work on the following things:

Fukua
  • More resets..it gets predictable and stupid to use the same ones over and over again;
  • Find an use for L drill? I hardly ever use that;
  • More burst baits;
  • Remember s.hk and c.hk to evade projectiles;
  • Perhaps practice more shadow combos.
Double
  • More burst baits;
  • Seriously..learn to fight Bands and combo them;
  • Actually learn to start combos mid-air (airgrab doesn't count);
  • More uses for teacup;
  • More fleshstepping;
  • More lugerlooping.
My Double neutral game used to be horrible as well not long ago. I always needed an assist to get in but it's only getting better and better. I feel more and more flexible with her these days.

I think that's it for now. Will make new posts in the future. Now, how does Squigly's neutral game work? And also, in what order should I even use the characters then?
 
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You should dhc into catheads more instead of car, I'm pretty sure it's better in pretty much every way unless you're using it to counter something. Fireball super into catheads is probably a good way to get Fukua out if she's low on health or whatever.
I might be able to provide some Squigly assistance sometime eventually, probably
 
SScrux said:
currently Squigly. But egh, my neutral game is horrible with Squigly. I feel like I'm handicapped when playing her, even after so many weeks of getting used to her already.
You're used to Fukua/Double. Ahem.
Let's say: Not every character in SG is as quick'n'easy to pick up as those two.

Don't feel discouraged if you don't immediately grasp Squigly's neutral; she's difficult to play -
Has nothing to do with you being bad or not having affinity with the character or whatever else.

Why did I drop Filia? Because she frustrated me. I hated how every target needed its own timing for combos and stuff. I couldn't even iAD properly anyway and my neutral game with Filia was even more horrible. Perhaps I gave up too fast.
Sure sounds like it! Again, not every character's neutral is as simple as "j.HP, Gunshot, Catheads" or "Fireball, Shadow, Fireball".
IAD is easy with a tiny bit of practice and there are tons of combos which are character universal. If you like Filia per se (or eg enjoy seeing other ppl play her), it might be worth it to try her out again.

Peacock..what a lovely character. Prolly my fave from the whole cast because of her theme and personality. One thing though: darn, zoning is boring, sorry guys.
You are in EU, have you not fought MrPeck yet? Peacock doesn't have to play a runaway style.

The problem with me is that I suck at anything but double jumping characters. Yeah sure, I can do some airdashing but it feels frustrating and less comfortable than just..double jumping.
How often do you Doublejump where and why, really? Also, that sounds like you'd enjoy Valentine :~

charge characters like Parasoul. That is something compleeeetely new to me, since I never played Street Fighter or anything. It feels like my brain is too slow to realize I wanna charge up a certain move already in this string of attacks I'm doing, often resulting into me being too late to perform that charge move. Do I need more practice? Or are charge characters just nothing for me? That's the question.
Always the practice part. There are some characters you are going to have more of an affinity with than others, but for "I can't do charge moves" that sure doesn't matter.
Just take a mental note to hold back during combos/etc and it will come bit by bit. I'm on the other end by now; permanently holding back/downback while I combo with non-charge characters :P

Find an use for L drill? I hardly ever use that;
L.Drill is useful as the last thing you do in a blockstring (it's safe), and you can even end combos with it (it's +5 or something on hit, so that's an easy mixup point right there)

And also, in what order should I even use the characters then?
Both Squig/Fuk/Double and Fuk/Squig/Double sound okay - the former will probably have better assist synergies (ek LK Bomber reversal+lockdown & MK.Shadow spacecontrol for Squigs), the latter puts the characters into a more "classical" order (Squig is generally seen as best 2nd, Fukua is a common point).
 
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If your looking for help with Fukua you should read Dreampitaph's art of fukua (it has burst baits, combos, and resets I think). Also if you need help with shadow combos I'd be willing to show you a few useful ones if you would like. Also dont use s.HK to avoid projectiles unless you cancel into BFF (which you really should'nt be doing any ways). And L drill is good for pressure if you have an assist to cover you.
 
@zeknife

Yes, that is definitely true. I try to keep myself to DHC'ing into car ONLY when I know I can get a hit. Though, sometimes, I'm mistaken or I don't have the meter for it and my desperation accidentally leads me to throwing out a blocked car anyway, oops. Also, some Squigly assistance would be really great. I know you are damn well at Squigling.

@joshb911

Yeah, I've seen that one. It's really nice. I would appreciate some shadow combos demonstration. I will add you on Steam.
Oh? I read somewhere that s.hk can be used for evading Peacock's ground Georges, and c.hk for the other projectiles like napalm shot. I know it works but I'm not sure yet if it's viable enough for online play - I still wanted to test that. Why do you not recommend it?
 
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just looking at the frame advantage stuff and the way peacock recovers she can easilly wip out the mag on you and light you up. (depending on how close you are to peacock) Although I will say this if you using it to simply get in on peacock then you might be good but she recovers way to fast for that to be a really viable option far away.
 
Catheads deals more damage than Car even at full UD afaik, so it's really never worth it to car?
Catheads leaves you in a better position, allows you to reset, etc
There is no way to ever have meter for Car DHC if you don't have it for the Catheads one - both cost 1 bar.
You'd car to avoid something that is about to hit you, but that's roughly it.

Try the s.HK and c.HK business. s.HK difficult to utilize properly since Peacock generally has more than one thing covering her (so you might eg dodge the L.George with it, but get hit by Plane/SoID), but if you find ways to do it proper, that would be quite nice for us Fukua players~ c.HK is most definitely a strong option.
 
@IsaVulpes

Thanks for that wall of advice, Vulpes.

I will continue working on my Squigly. I do feel some improvement the more I play her though, thankfully.
Filia and Peacock will still be on a hold, however.

Double jumping? Eh, that's hard to explain. I could say I do it by feeling, better positioning and all that kinda crap.
Oh man, the irony. When I picked up this game, I wanted to main Valentine! I tried her out and worst idea ever.

Always the practice part. There are some characters you are going to have more of an affinity with than others, but for "I can't do charge moves" that sure doesn't matter.
Just take a mental note to hold back during combos/etc and it will come bit by bit. I'm on the other end by now; permanently holding back/downback while I combo with non-charge characters :P

That is a reeeally nice tip. I will keep it in mind and try it out some day again.

Both Squig/Fuk/Double and Fuk/Squig/Double sound okay - the former will probably have better assist synergies (ek LK Bomber reversal+lockdown & MK.Shadow spacecontrol for Squigs), the latter puts the characters into a more "classical" order (Squig is generally seen as best 2nd, Fukua is a common point).

I've been thinking a lot about this these days. I came up with a Fukua/Squig/Double team with M shadow, drag n bite and M bomber respectively. But I shall try out the first team you suggested as well and see which one works better for me. Also, why L bomber and not M bomber?
 
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@joshb911

Hmn alright, you got a strong and clear point there.

@IsaVulpes

I see.
Oh? I thought fireball+car = 2 bars and fireball+cats = 3 bars.
Darn, I never noticed lol. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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DHCing costs -1 bar if it's into a Super that costs more than one bar normally.

DHC into 2 bar Super = 1 Meter
DHC into 3 bar Super = 2 Meter
etc

So Fireball-Cats is 2 Bars much like Fireball-Car is,
And you can DHC into Level5s (since they only cost 4 when DHCd into), etc
 
Ah, very useful.
 
SScrux said:
That is a reeeally nice tip. I will keep it in mind and try it out some day again.
Just practice [c.LK c.MK s.HPx2 xx L.Tearshot] a bunch, where you try to hold a back direction at all times (so 1LK 1MK 4HPHP), it'll come sooner or later.

Parasoul doesn't have a Doublejump, though :P

Also, why L bomber and not M bomber?
M Bomber controls midrange and air besser than L does,
L is better defensively and has a stronger lockdown component.
Since M.Shadow already controls midrange and air, I figure L.Bomber would work better with it.

You could also try H.Drill (lockdown/defence) + M.Bomber (midrange/air control) instead.

The problem with smth like Fuk(M.Shadow)/Squig(DnB)/Dub(M.Bomber) is that you play 3 characters with questionable defence~
P.much the entire team seems to stand and fall with that Bomber assist, making you rather susceptible to snaps.
If you run that order (or maybe in general, if you run that team? I said M.Shadow earlier but not sure~), I'd choose H.Drill as the Fukua assist, so you got a backup choice in case something goes awry.
 
Also playing off of Isas comment your lacking the one thing you need when you play Fukua..... An invincible DP assist.... Suggestions get that sister in your team some how (play Filia instead of squig and your team would be really good). :)
 
IsaVulpes said:
I don't think Fuk needs a DP assist at all
Oh..... (It just got really quite in my room). The only reason I suggest it is because I feel that Fukua has a lot of - moves and requires the dp to cover her ass... But I've never run L bomber so maybe that'll work just fine........... (Don't be mad at me Isa....(((please )))))
 
Fuk with DP assist is still helpful though. I run fuk with filla dp and double m bomber. I rather mash out a dp assist than drill when getting pressured, but that's just me. With your team though you should probably go with what Isa said
 
The team would indeed be "better" with Filia instead of Squigly, but it doesn't matter so much to me. I prefer playing Squigly over Filia, so there's that.

ImAnOmen said:
I rather mash out a dp assist than drill when getting pressured, but that's just me.

Yeah, it's common.
 
you don't need an DP assist. you just need good neutral. anybody that suggest DP assist off the bat prolly whore the assist underpressure and get double snap for free.

All you need is a teammate that amplifies your neutral.
 
Entry 2

Time flies.
I've been messing around a lot with Fuk/Squig/Double lately and am starting to see the benefits. Sometimes, I like to pick solo Squig just for the practice. I gotta say my neutral is at last getting better and better. The more I play, the more tricks and tech I find by accident and start to use. I feel like I got way more control over her right now.

Things I've learned:
-Found a Squigly reset by going for a L or M divekick after a s.hk > jump?
-Cancelling into f+s.hp as Squigly might be helpful to break defenses?
-New working reset for Fukua: j.lp into delayed j.hk.
-Double's lvl 3 into Squig's opera is a-ma-zing.

Things I should work on:
-Safe blockstring(s) for Squig.
-Time for more resets for Squig.
-Try that odd and nasty H shadow reset for Fukua.
-The best synergy.

I will keep on practicing Squigles.
 
Entry 3

I'm having this phase of finding and creating optimized combos - very fun stuff. If I can do it, I wanna aim for ToDs for my teams as well.

I think I have a hard time dealing with Parasouls. Her mixups are really good. I might look for patient Psoul players and play them a bit more/talk to them.

So far, I didn't dig up many resets for Squigly besides throws and s.hk > stance cancel crossunder or divekick crossunder.
 
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Aight, cool. I hope the pings will manage.
 
Entry 4

My Double has some flaws I need to take care of immediately.
I was watching this earlier today:


It made me realize again that I have a bad habit of overusing Double's c.lk. I use it after jump-ins, to punish, list goes on. I can see this clearly during that second match where my Double was put against that Bella.

Right, I went into training to confirm some frame data:
C.lk - 11 frames on start-up
C.lp - 7 frames on start-up
S.lp - 6 frames on start-up
Now, the quick choice here would be s.lp. However, from experience, I know it might whiff and leave me open for attacks. Conclusion: get used to using c.lp more often. I checked Bella's Diamond Drop as well; a 4 frames on start-up. No wonder she outsped me twice.

This made me curious about Double's starters as well. I usually use c.lk > s.mk (x2) > launcher. I should vary more often now. A few notes regarding damage (1 vs 1 ratio):
C.lp > s.mk (x2) > launcher - 1953
C.lk > s.mk (x2) > launcher - 2078
C.lp > c.mp > launcher - 1750
I know it doesn't really matter that much. Just wanted to know.
I shall still use c.lk whenever I'm too far away and I know that c.lp won't hit nor connect.

Enough of that now. I found another new reset at the same time (wow I'm late). Launcher > j.lp into delayed teacup. Beautiful.
...I still have to use teacups way more.
 
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Note that those two sMKx2 starters deal more damage by themselves, but also increase the damage scaling by one additional hit, which means they might do less damage by the end;
To really discern which starter is the most damaging, you have to go through the full combo.

Also note that cLK cMP sHK works from almost max-range cLK, while cLK sMKx2 sHK has to be done from a bit closer.

On cLP vs cLK; while cLP is faster which is more useful as a punish, cLK is a low which makes it much more likely to actually hit people.
 
Teacup crossups are pretty coolio but it doesn't stagger against air so if someone is holding up-back it might be punishable on hit
 
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Hi again, Vulpes and zek!
IsaVulpes said:
Note that those two sMKx2 starters deal more damage by themselves, but also increase the damage scaling by one additional hit, which means they might do less damage by the end;
To really discern which starter is the most damaging, you have to go through the full combo.
Yep, already did a double-check yesterday. There's still hardly any difference. Apparently, the s.mk x2 starters end up with around 80-100 more damage at the end of a full combo.
IsaVulpes said:
Also note that cLK cMP sHK works from almost max-range cLK, while cLK sMKx2 sHK has to be done from a bit closer.
Ah, thanks for reminding me. I forgot about that.

zeknife said:
Teacup crossups are pretty coolio but it doesn't stagger against air so if someone is holding up-back it might be punishable on hit
Hmm, I see. Alright, I'm going to take this one to some online testing. Might as well replace cup with barrel (?) if the cup really isn't reliable enough.
 
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Entry 5

I asked zeknife for some Squigly advice at last and he came up with a couple of really interesting stuff:

Resets
Launch > j.lk > delayed j.mk (will crossup against most);
Dash jump j.lk during j.hp loops (use j.mp instead of j.mk to make it not cross up or double jump to bait reversals);
S.mp (1) xx stance cancel after a j.hp in the corner.

Other stuff
TK L divekick after launching, rejump airthrow against light characters to throw them off;
M bomber gives Squigly a charged mid-combo without using otg - (s.hp x2 >) assist call > charge and mk.

I currently use M shadow/DnB/L bomber and I think I'm going to change it to H drill/DnB/M bomber. I didn't find M shadow very useful. I'm not sure about the results yet but let's check it out.
 
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M shadow is only useful against opponents that like to press buttons when they jump very useful against squig players :). H drill is great for jump over setups and pressure. So depending on your play style it can be good. I would also suggest lk shadow (really powerful against bella, parasol, fortune, and other Fukua's). I've been experimenting with that one and it has potential
 
Yeah I agree that it pretty much depends on one's play style. I simply could not benefit from M shadow and found it hard to combo after. Theoretically though, it's still a good assist for spacing and control.
The M bomber should cover some of that space now while H drill is indeed going to be used for jump overs and a lot of pressure. I might try L and H shadow if H drill isn't going to satisfy me enough anymore.
 
L shadow is great because as your rushing down someone you can throw it out to provide low pressure allowing you to jump in with a high hitting attack leading to some rad oki setups
 
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Entry 6

I returned from playing at Skullbats EU's top 8 last Sunday. Ended up 4th, got really salty about the last loss that dropped me out. People telling me I should've kept Double or changed to solo Fukua (I went Fukua/Squig). Damn. I shouldn't have failed there - what a bad decision to replace Double. I didn't expect to lose and thought I'd hit 3rd place.
I've thought some about what went wrong perhaps. I think I experimented too much with teams and Squigly in general these last few days. My Double felt quite rusty, I wasn't getting in like I used to and kept dropping combos. Squigly, on the other side, was still fresh. Fukua, I always kept.

Yeah, concerning Squigly these days, I'm actually doing even better. I can feel myself getting closer to one of the goals I set for myself: stance cancelling whenever I want and whenever I should without any trouble. I'm talking about being quicker at linking stuff, getting myself out of an unsafe normal, etc. I normally couldn't react fast enough. I preferred Seria cancelling over stance cancelling, but now I can do both properly. It's only a matter of time again before I can utilize it during the right moments for some neat setups I still gotta find. Quick sidenote: A standard stance cancel is 18f total and a Seria cancel is 12f, making cancels significantly faster if Squigly builds a charge.

Oh right, here's the Skullbats stream vid for anyone that is curious:


Timestamps:
0:33:02 - vs Sanji
1:11:20 - vs Mr Peck
1:17:06 - vs Muro
1:33:30 - vs dragonos

Brackets:
http://skullbatseu.challonge.com/sbeupcs3top8
 
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Oh, true. I already had a feeling I forgot something. Gonna do that right now.

EDIT: There.
 
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psh I was rocking solo Fukua before it was cool -.-
 
joshb911 said:
psh I was rocking solo Fukua before it was cool -.-
>solo Fukua before it was cool
I am not surprised.
 
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Ok things I noticed with your Fukua style:
Way to flow charted: you keep going for the same set up of dash forward cr.lk, cr.mk.
Now I'm no one to knit pick but cr.mk should not be your go to move for the second hit of your combo (use s.mk less scaling)
Next thing I noticed way to much armored grab as I've mentioned before don't go to this move all the time cause it's easy to predict and counter
Next your resets...... You went for the same cr.mp, cr.hk, canceled into QCF grab (don't know if it was pressure) but you never landed it once.. I've played you several times so I know you have more resets then that
Next your approach there is a difference between dashing in blindly and planning to dash (I don't think I saw you mess that up 0.0) But I will say this your mix up game is something that needs to be worked on (throw some more high low stuff in)
I never saw hk shadow once the entire time you were playing in neutral..(you were conditioning your opponent to think dash then theres gonna be a low....) I think Mr.Peck started to realize that after a while
Lastly Why did you not bff when that dynamo whiffed? Double got reckt and you could have pulled off the same combo if you had done that....

Ok now that I have ripped you apart let me say the things that I did like :)
Use of the shinkus (I don't care I'm gonna use it). You used the shinkus as a means of pressure and punishing (that's a good thing 0.0)
The use of hadoukens as a means to pressure rather then a zoning tool was also well executed
Lastly your use of bomber as a back up to your rush down was well done
I hope you don't take this personally I just wanted to help :)
 
@LuxadeSwag

Hey thanks man, that's some great stuff you've posted there.
I discovered those teacup crossups already by now though, but I'm especially still interested in those combos. I'll make sure to check them out and practice them.
That Fukua reset, is it character specific?
 
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