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Beast's Fury - Updates & Discussion

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They will be replacing Vincent when Don does his finisher on another character. Since this is being done on toon boom it would be possible to do that. The same can be done to Don when facing his mirror.
 
Oh... yeah... I forgot you guys are doing those finishers...

It's not really a fair comparison to thrown frames, I don't think. Thrown frames are... not very many from what I've seen in 2d fighting games. Using Skullgirls as an example, Excellebella is the only move that requires a unique hitstun animation (iirc), and it uses only like 3 or 4 unique frames per character. Regular throws (and everything else) are just reusing different hitstuns all of the time, and the game uses the same frames for characters that get sent reeling from a throw or knockback or what have you.
 
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Evil-Dog said:
it's like that for throws
Are throw reactions specific animations? Are there a lot of them?
If so....why?

Zidiane said:
It's not really a fair comparison to thrown frames, I don't think.
Depending on how they do throws, it might be. If they do lots of custom throw animations then it might easily be comparable, though that isn't a good idea.

Zidiane said:
Using Skullgirls as an example,
Well then you might as well get the example right. :^P
Each character has around 40 possible frames they can use while being thrown. There are unique frames just for being thrown - 12 at various clock positions facing inward, 12 facing outward, 3 for Excellabella, and then the rest of the 40 are hitstun frames that are reused. This itself is more work than old Capcom games, which pretty much never drew unique thrown frames but instead allowed choosing from any of the character's frames.

Even for Third Strike they did not draw new unique thrown frames...they DID allow unique thrown animations per character, witness Makoto's Karakusa vs Hugo, but they are all re-used frames so the art investment is zero.

Doing custom thrown frames per throw, for all characters, is a huge time investment that doesn't really advance gameplay at all.
 
I'd say rule of thumb here is, if a new character is added and because of him new frames need to be drawn for already existing characters, there's a problem in design.
 
While I disagree on that rule of thumb in defense of moves such as Midnight Bliss that use only a handful of unique frames per character to be really memorable, a 20-second highly detailed animation sequence that's character-specific is absolutely myopic. Especially if every other character is also supposed to have their own character-specific animated finisher.
 
Mike_Z said:
If so....why?
Yeah I've pushed making reusable throw animations but not hard enough, we do have specifics ones and I know it's not a good idea for the long run. A part of the throw that I think need some somewhat specific animation is the "grabbed" part for each character, still need to make a reusable generic system (that still looks good) though. I'll certainly require a reworking on that end if/when we go full productions beyond our demo. For now we're stuck with some erroneous design choices.

I do think these unique finisher moves are a worthy wow factor investment, however, the whole team agrees that this Don finisher is way too long, they'll be shorter for sure.
 
It also looks like they're planning on having individual spirit animals come out of the characters for EX moves instead of something as simple and universal as flashing yellow/green/blue/red/white, based on how Vincent works. Don doesn't have any effects to prove it's an EX move. And there's a sound cue that isn't exclusively for EX specials, but for specials in general. Yatagarasu keeps sound cues for notable things like EX specials, super flashes, successful guard crushes, sweeps (generally same animation as c.hk, but they do it slower and yell something else loudly), parries, etc.

And on anther note, Don's sharknado command normal makes them fly back in slow motion. Sharknado -> s.lp is a combo for some reason. Compared to his c.hp which sends them flying fullscreen and Don's slow ass has to chase them all over again.

Finally, make Don's AA grab a hit grab. AA grabs aren't always the best AA solutions, and being able to combo into them is fun. This is especially necessary since Don doesn't have the same variety of combo routes as Vincent. Also Potemkin, Tager, Abel, Rose, Cerebella, Beowulf, Kotal Khan, Hugo.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
Don doesn't have any effects
Not yet no, it's coming. Blue energy in his case


Fedora_Ninja said:
Don's slow ass has to chase them all over again
Version 10a will have reworked juggle values for Don (and vincent). I still need to rework the juggle mechanics a bit, we're not getting consistent results and I know why, just need to spend the time to fix it.


Fedora_Ninja said:
make Don's AA grab a hit grab
It's already one, can you clarify why you say that?
 
Evil-Dog said:
can you clarify why you say that?


The difference is that the AA throw's hit box in SG actually counts as a physical hit that is unblockable if the opposing character has any upward velocity. Of course in a game where you can't air block, the AA grab is unblockable by default.
 
well then... where is the hit box? cause... yeah it's kinda confusing on how it looks right now...
 
Ninja said:
where is the hit box?
Right now the hit box grabs higher so it doesn't link well with combos. It'll be fixed in an upcoming version. Right now we're finishing Don's move set.
Basically I'm saying code wise it's a hit grab, but behavior wise it's just a air grab cause of the tight grab box
 
You know, I was going to rant about this thing proper, but that was before I actually looked at the budget.

Only 1% of the raised funds are being allocated to pay the music/audio team.

Fucking seriously?! Either the two working on this are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally nice (like, by an unhealthy amount) or they're ignorant and you're just straight up screwing them over.

Fighting games have less musical work to be done than, say, an RPG, but getting less than $1k (if music+audio person are doing an even split) is not even close to a realistic amount for what they'll be doing.
 
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They're goals...the amount they're putting for characters...

"$275,000 USD: PS4\Xbox One Launch 4 new characters and stages + Trial Mode
$360,000 USD: 4 new characters and stages + Survival Mode
$455,000 USD: 4 new characters and stages + Story Mode Non Animated Cut scenes.
$550,000 USD: 4 new characters and stages + Tournament Mode
$645,000 USD: Story Mode Animated Cut scenes + Animated Short Movie"

I dunno, none of this seems realistic to me. I would have just stuck with the 8 cast and not attempted to entice ppl with more characters than both necessary and within your budget. I mean, Animated Cut Scenes? Animated Short Movie? I know this game won't be Skullgirls levels of details and number of frames, but $90,000 for 4 characters seems like a hell of a stretch unless they like working for peanuts :/
 
This is what, the fourth time they've asked for funding (and flexible funding each time, no less)? And after they were successful once and showed they have no desire to allocate their funds sensibly? I never want to see a developer fail at making their ideal game, but I find it hard to even care at this point and I doubt people who backed before and saw nothing for their money will be willing to repeat the mistake.
 
On a more candid note, who asked for animated cutscenes? Or an animated short movie?! I would like to think that the backers who funded the last two Kickstarters would rather the devs spend that money on finishing the damn game.

There are bigger and more expensive fighters out there that can't afford that shit, and you are not one of them. Skullgirls' budget was like $1.7m, and Reverge sure as hell couldn't afford accessory junk like animated finishers, animated storymode cutscenes, an animated short movie, etc.
 
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tbh, I liked the character designs...I think the whole "Wild Beast inside us all" Kinda thing was cool....but...we already saw how bleak things were with Don's stupid finisher. This game is trying to be more AAA than it can afford. Like seriously, offer Trial Mode, Survival Mode, and Tournament mode, those are fine. 4 new characters? I get you guys have a ton of ideas, but you have to know where to cut it off. You have your 8 main cast, so use the funds towards them, and maybe 1 new character every OTHER tier. You can other simple stuff like extra palettes or alternate variations of existing stages. More icons, a sprucier HUD, I dunno, just something SIMPLER than 4 full fledged chars per tier. You're working to burn yourself out...

Yeah I know I put you like I was addressing the devs, who won't see this, but eh, I'm annoyed.
 
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Please at least use simple 3d models as base. Help your animators survive this
 
They're asking for more money?! And it still isn't a realistic budget?

From the page:
"Beast's Fury's main selling point is the idea of 'progressive dynamism', or an evolution of the mechanics of the game as you play. Traditional fighting games have a set curve in that the game is static in how it plays in order to retain a fundamentally solid game. Though retaining the idea of fundamentals, we implemented systems in order to make it so characters grow stronger the longer the game lasts. This not only makes the game visually appealing to look at but causes a change in how players approach the end game."

This entire paragraph is just...meaningless. You grow stronger by building super meter in lots of games. You get Hellfire in Xrd and you get X-Factor Lv3 in MvC3 by being dead. You auto-generate meter at low health in Blazblue! This is treading in Chainsaw Incident random-buzzword territory here.

North888 said:
I know this game won't be Skullgirls levels of details and number of frames
If they are truly doing unique throw animations and animated finishers for each character vs each character, they will be forced to far exceed SG's number of frames per character just through specialized animations. Though you won't see the vast majority of those frames in a given match.
 
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Mike_Z said:
If they are truly doing unique throw animations and animated finishers for each character vs each character, they will be forced to far exceed SG's number of frames per character just through specialized animations. Though you won't see the vast majority of those frames in a given match.
wait, this was brought up earlier, but I was confused by the meaning, I was thinking you meant this in regards to things like Cerebella's Excelbella, for which each character has a unique (at least I assume so, I've been consistently wrong before) single frame of animation for getting grabbed by.

But...you mean, like, stuff like grabs have totally unique or at least minor changes for the grab animation itself for each character? That'd be insane!
Honestly think they're gonna blow themselves out on the finishers and Don and maybe Vincent with have the only really cinematic ones.

Additionally, scrolling down to their rewards, a lot of it is physical stuff...It's nice they're trying to offer stuff, but it feels like they're trying to be too big for they're britches; like that Don bust is so worth he extra money, like Beast's Fury hasn't shown it's poor allocation of focus and materials before. It seems they're so focused making the rewards sound worth and milking as much extra cash as possible than actually making the game worth playing. Watching they're trailer, Vincent is still ridiculous and Don still underwhelming. Ugh, do I even have a right to rant on this?

EDIT: I say single frame of animation, basically single character still (like Beowulf's crossed arms when upside down during Excelbella)
 
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WTF @Evil-Dog ? You guys were at least on the upslope with all of the patches, but this is absurd. You guys should not have even CONSIDERED going back to crowdfunding until your demo was polished to a perfect shine, expensive finishers and all. I can't believe this was even a team decision, and the budget expectations look just as ridiculous as they were from the first campaign.

Please get Ryhan to just cancel this thing quickly, before he sinks the ship along with everyone's hard work.
 
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Hold on a minute here. Lets say they reach all the stretch goals, does that mean they would add an additional 16 characters to the regular 8 which would result in 24 total characters? If so, about $21,000 per character doesn't seem like it would cut it. Not even close.
 
MetroKoolAid said:
Hold on a minute here. Lets say they reach all the stretch goals, does that mean they would add an additional 16 characters to the regular 8 which would result in 24 total characters? If so, about $21,000 per character doesn't seem like it would cut it. Not even close.
They've had a number of other crowdfunding done in the past. Well, only one was successful iirc, but it was just to get the demo out. They've got quite a nice budget iirc, so this Crowd Funding's point is either to squeeze the fans for all they go, or they blew it all on Don's finish and stupid Busts you can get as a tier reward :/
 
Ok, these guys are gonna have some ridiculous credits. People gonna be under different tier names from 4 different crowd funding campaigns with possible overlap, and then it's going to be hard to differentiate the hierarchy of worth of each tier, esp. since the naming conventions are different each campaign.

Regarding the physical rewards, the Don bust was at work LONG before this crowdfunding campaign.
https://www.facebook.com/BeastsFury...6770801213/736943553068865/?type=1&permPage=1

and they seriously need to stop offering sticks as reward tiers. They were offering them the last Kickstarter, and for a tier $400 lower than what they are currently charging. To my understanding, the general audience that is most excited for the game isn't the hardcore audience that would even look at playing any video game with a fightstick.

They give a feeling that they want to be that hot, new edgy fighting game, but end up sounding kinda like these guys: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1741122202/voice-of-steel/description
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
and they seriously need to stop offering sticks as reward tiers. They were offering them the last Kickstarter, and for a tier $400 lower than what they are currently charging. To my understanding, the general audience that is most excited for the game isn't the hardcore audience that would even look at playing any video game with a fightstick.
A custom pad would be cool. Seems like more people would use those instead of the sticks. With a pad you could at least use it in pretty much any other game.

Fedora_Ninja said:
They give a feeling that they want to be that hot, new edgy fighting game, but end up sounding kinda like these guys: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1741122202/voice-of-steel/description
The idea of making your own character with their own custom moves sounds really cool. Although some of the features they added like voice controls seems very odd.
 
Two previous Kickstarters with a total of about $57,000 (USD).
Two unfinished characters.
That's $26,000 each for an unfinished character.

They now want to finish those and make 6 additional characters for $185,000.
And don't forget that for every character they make, they need to make more frames for their previous characters too to deal with all the custom throw animations and finishers.

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading on this campaign page. The willful ignorance about budgeting and claims of learning from underestimating their animation costs last time are unbelievable.
 
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oh hey guys what did i miss... oh.

oh. well now... i'm kinda at a loss for words here. I honestly don't expect you guys to make any where close to the goal, and if you do then your fans really really love you and want this game done. Maybe you should respect that and try to get a functioning demo with two complete characters with correct hitboxes and combo system that works. IDK... but now I have to think if you are wasting people's money and that's a terrible thing to think right?
 
aw damn it Kai. why did you post this. I was drinking a perfectly good water when I clicked on that video. Now it's everywhere and I'm on the floor laughing/choking to death. I love you man but come on. okay it's more my fault but still. The music is little too spot on.
 
Deja Vu.
Cat_matrix_deja_vu.gif

They really need a new manager to.... manage things better if this is gonna ever be salvageable at this rate. Also a non BS budget plan would be a great start as well since that hasn't been working either if the plan was to put the goal so low that they overshoot by 15x or something due to backer momentum.
 
Skullmageddon said:
Yo, I hope they're hiring. I love animating for free.
you do??! That has me a little worried. Your stuff is good man I would happily pay you to do animations and not for free come on.
 
Skull such thing must never be said on the internet, not even sarcastically.

Make a very good investiment and hire ME I ask 1000$ for a single frame drawn with my platinum A SS
 
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