• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Beast's Fury - Updates & Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
*snip*
This is actually seriously helpful in general. Thinking back on when I started on my project, I didn't know ANY of this. In fact, tbh, some of this I still need to work on, but this giant post is just so full of good things, even if it states it in a fairly negative way. Taking this to heart, even if I ain't the guy you intended it for, thanks.
 
This is actually seriously helpful in general. Thinking back on when I started on my project, I didn't know ANY of this. In fact, tbh, some of this I still need to work on, but this giant post is just so full of good things, even if it states it in a fairly negative way. Taking this to heart, even if I ain't the guy you intended it for, thanks.
The most important advice I can offer anybody who wants to make a game is to play games. Play them, pick them apart, understand what works and doesn't work and why. Why do Mortal Kombat 9's corners feel janky? Why does comboing in Launch Party Everyday feel so much less fun than comboing in Slightly Different Edition? Why does Persona 2 make me enjoy talking to NPCs more than Final Fantasy? Why does Ocarina of Time discourage exploration? How does Super Metroid teach you where to go through environment cues? Why does the level design in Sonic 2 encourage the player to ascend? What purpose does Victory cards having no use serve in Dominion? Play games, play them more, play the bad ones to see what they did good, play the good ones to see what they did bad, and try to pull the legos back apart afterward if you can.

Every bad fighting game could have been made better if the team who made them played more fighting games.
 
play the bad ones to see what they did good
This is one of my favorite things to do in videogames, and I don't know why more people don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead
This is one of my favorite things to do in videogames, and I don't know why more people don't.
Because anyone with an idea will be infallible in its execution, obviously.
 
Huh?
I think he was referring to the next portion of what I said, "play the good ones to see what they did bad." You'd be shocked at how many people, for example, believe that Ocarina of Time is a perfect game with no flaws whatsoever.


edit: wait, that wouldn't shock anybody given nintendo fans
 
Every bad fighting game could have been made better if the team who made them played more fighting games.
Someone print that out and frame it. It not only applies to fighting games but every game ever. Want to make an amazing shooter? Play more shooters. Want to make an amazing platformer? Play more platformers. Want to make an even more amazing sequel to your already amazing game? Actually play your own game.
 
Or Final Fantasy VII fans, or Persona fans... The list goes on.
 
Some of this stuff could be interesting to discuss, but would just be off topic here. Feel free to make another thread and I'll add my views, otherwise let's keep discussion to this one game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wenzel
This is one of my favorite things to do in videogames, and I don't know why more people don't.
This might belong in the other thread, but just want to point out, there are enough obscure "good" games with unique ideas to play that I don't think it's even necessary to go out of your way for bad games.

Devil Hunter Yohko on the sega genesis is flawed but has some cool stuff going on. Not many people have played or even heard of it, though. I could think of more examples (who's played Kenseiden, Elemental Master, Mystic Defender 2, Jewel Master, Vasara, Magical Pop'n, or Shinrei Jusatsuhi Taromaru? etc.)
 
If at any point you unironically use the word "spamming" when describing a fighting game, you are not qualified to make a fighting game.
I'm gonna break my secret rule about never agreeing with you in public. This is FULLY true, and really is a pretty good litmus test.
"Cheap", too.

competency
*competence
:^)
 
At some point they released ver. 10a, complete with don's super.

1. Changes properties depending on range.


2. since it's a projectile toss with a hitbox the size of the tiny cigar, you can just duck under it MKX style.

3. Doesn't work at all with juggle combos. Probably due to conflict with their juggle system, which literally uses juggle points.

4. From what I tested in 10 min, cannot be combo'd after. Also Don runs thru Vincent's fireball on fullscreen hit, confirms Vincent's fireball doesn't disappear when hit. Oh and some weird lock out bug. There's supposed to be a whiff animation, doesn't trigger.

Some other thing, if you hit up + button on the same frame/plink timing, the character does a grounded normal instead of an air normal.
 
3. Doesn't work at all with juggle combos. Probably due to conflict with their juggle system, which literally uses juggle points.
Oh wow, and he continues on whiff. :^|

4. From what I tested in 10 min, cannot be combo'd after. Also Don runs thru Vincent's fireball on fullscreen hit, confirms Vincent's fireball doesn't disappear when hit. Oh and some weird lock out bug. There's supposed to be a whiff animation, doesn't trigger.

Some other thing, if you hit up + button on the same frame/plink timing, the character does a grounded normal instead of an air normal.
Same frame giving a grounded normal is true in most games - just checked 3s and SG.
Plink timing likely means they let you cancel jump startup into normals...does anyone have jump-cancellable things on hit? :^P
 
Yeah I just checked Yatagarasu and same frame also gives a ground normal.
Nope, there's nothing jump-cancellable in the game. It feels really stiff. I think they're trying for SF4? But it feels stiffer than that.

Can't move until landing recovery frames are done; feels like landing recovery also adds startup on empty jumps; arbitrary fireball cooldown time = 2 jabs, maybe a lil less, instead of just increasing recovery frames; delayed crossups autocorrect; crossups push the opponent away.....

there's a bunch of stuff that I've already listed early in this thread that still need to be addressed.

OH AND YOU CAN'T CANCEL SPECIALS INTO SUPER. Supers can only be combo'd into from normals that are already special cancellable.
 
OH AND YOU CAN'T CANCEL SPECIALS INTO SUPER. Supers can only be combo'd into from normals that are already special cancellable.
That's not a thing you can do in most games, though...
 
Evil-Dog left a rather interesting message in this video's comment section, regarding Skullheart.

Evil-Dog said:
Well I was banned from that forum, I went to announce the indiegogo and talk about it but when I got there, everyone was already raging about it even though I didn't receive reply notifications like I usually do. When I tried to login, my account wasn't there anymore. You put smilies and hearts and stuff to be snarky but do you think that's fair or fun? I've always been open there and didn't insult anyone, kept them posted on all the updates, I was cordial and people appreciated that and said so, and out of the blue I'm banned? for what? Because the project I work on is doing a crowdfunder? I mean I deleted the bookmark to it and I'm not checking it anymore, what's the point? But it's also irrelevant to the discussion here, Joshua is simply insulting me in a very forward manner.

As you can see from Evil-Dog's profile, Evil-Dog doesn't have a "Banned" banner, nor does he have any sort of warning or infraction on his account. It seems as though he's abandoned this forum and is lying about being banned here to save face.

Make sure to back that Kickstarter!!
 
double post, im baffled by the fact that if you donate 25k that they will let you add your own character like how is that even included in the budget? but why does that even matter because we already know they cant have a good one

ill just be waiting for the next kickstarter to find out

Edited because I cant read
 
it turns out he was onyl assuming he was banned, like im pretty sure if he wanted to get back on it would be possible considering that like evil dog is like the second account on this place related to beast fury, like he could have logged in as @beastsfury no?
 
If he's gone, then who the hell am I supposed to passively throw my argumentative comments at? I know it sounds like I'm joking, but seriously...

And what? Training mode isn't just a thing that we should expect to have included in the final product? Are they sure they're making a fighting game? Guess it's back to having a controller in the P2 controller port...
 
If he's gone, then who the hell am I supposed to passively throw my argumentative comments at? I know it sounds like I'm joking, but seriously...

And what? Training mode isn't just a thing that we should expect to have included in the final product? Are they sure they're making a fighting game? Guess it's back to having a controller in the P2 controller port...
no I cant read, Trial mode is the stretch goal not training mode, ooooops <3

edit: so a question about the leagal parts of it, because it is a flexiable funding thing if some one was dumb enough to pay for the "make ur own sonic oc playable or something perk" would the Beasts' fury team be legally obligated to make that character legally even though they lack funding for it?
 
no I cant read, Trial mode is the stretch goal not training mode, ooooops <3

Haha man, I thought something seemed wrong. Yeah, that makes much more sense.
 
A "training mode" is already in the demo, but it can barely even be called one. No damage values, dummy options, reset positions button, or custom health/meter/other meter options. Health is set to infinite, so it's impossible to gauge the damage of combos.

The only training mode options are infinite meters (can we talk about how super meter is called fury, and the meter for fury mode is called adrenaline? Confusing as HELL.), which are always set to OFF on start up. They also need to implement a bare-bones test stage with the grid lines and shit.
 
You guys should see the stupid arguements Evil Dog is making to defend himself from someone just trying to point out basic character design concept issues. XD It's on the same link to the YT infernario vid.
 
ok maybe his account was affected by the skullheart move thing that went on? if he is actually not able to assess his account
 
well he says he'll come talk if he can get a new password. I'm not sure what reaction they expected, I don't think we're having a particularly unique reaction.
 
I don't know who the mods are or how to contact them on a forum I'm unable to access.
I don't understand how a programmer of all people can miss the "Contact Us (Forum issues only)" button at the bottom of every Skullheart page, or otherwise not expect every forum to have that feature somewhere and not know where to look for it. It's know-how I'd expect from just about every forum user who doesn't work with computers and communicate with people over the internet as part of their job.
 
I don't understand how a programmer of all people can miss the "Contact Us (Forum issues only)" button at the bottom of every Skullheart page, or otherwise not expect every forum to have that feature somewhere and not know where to look for it. It's know-how I'd expect from just about every forum user who doesn't work with computers and communicate with people over the internet as part of their job.
I hate to break it to you honey but I never knew that existed, amazing, the things you learn every day
 
We're looking into what's wrong with @Evil-Dog 's account, hopefully he'll come back. I always like reading opinions and game design reasoning from people actually trying to make games. Even a questionably made game is a million steps more impressive than armchair "If I was making a game..." statements.

Slight aside, I know it's great fun to hate on this project, but I've noticed a few times throughout this thread where people explain how the project is doomed and broken just because it's using game mechanics they don't agree with.
There's plenty of reasons to think this is making dangerous/bad design and organizational choices without diluting actual reasons with personal game mechanic preferences. Give reasons on why you think whatever is broken instead of just pointing and laughing at it.

re: EvilDog defending the character designs on Youtube... the guy attacking him for those designs is VERY aggressive and adamant about his opinion being correct and Evil's being wrong. If I was in Evil's shoes I'd likely be responding in exactly the same way.
Let's all try to be reasonable in here and not resort to extreme nitpicking like "Check out what this programmer said about character designs in a Youtube comment".

Be nice to people :)
 
Last edited:
I can only share the hope that Evil Dog will be back to see and/or reply to the input in this thread. There is a lot of negativity in it (which I'd say is only to be expected, accounted for and not taken personally after every controversial decision, regardless of context), but there is also a lot of very good pointers and well-thought feedback to be found here.

Ideally I'd recommend reading all of it, but at the very least I'd suggest doing a Ctrl+F and typing "Mike_Z" and "Broken Loose" in the last 3 pages.
 
The account in question has been fixed, and it wasn't anything the mods had done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Evil-Dog and Shooon
What on Earth happened to his account, then...?
 
What on Earth happened to his account, then...?
That's not something I think I should comment on. Just wanted to make clear that none of the mods had interfered with/banned his account or anything.

Back to the topic at hand, does anyone have more info on this 100k prize? Haven't had time to look it up myself.
 
I'M BACK! Thanks to @Vadsamoht
And I've got coffee! So let's get straight to it, I'm not a liar or trying to dodge anything, I sincerely assumed I was banned, you guys started talking negatively about the indiegogo before I came to announce it and my account didn't work anymore so I just thought someone got offended by the project and didn't want me here so I didn't try to fight it. But turns out it was a terribly timed technical issue. So now I'll reply to a million comments in a non chronological order.

What on Earth happened to his account
The current scientific theory is that somehow I modified my email in my account with a typo? I don't recall trying to change my password recently but whatever happened or whatever I did, @Vadsamoht fixed it so we're good.

he could have logged in as @beastsfury no
Nope, that's not my account, I'm the current game's programmer, that's the producer's email.

I don't think these people actually want to make a fighting game
Sure we are :) Maybe not one you like or think will be good though.

What would Jontron be, a green-cheeked parakeet like Jacques? I think there already is some bird person thing. ... Did Egoraptor drop out?
Lol Jontron's bird would be funny but no he's not involved with us at all, and Egoraptor has been silent recently so that might be off, also not sure that HE would voice it even if the characters is in. I personally prefer our original roster than cameo type characters but Benny is cool and will fit nicely.

Fifth time
I'm not aware of that, there was one before I joined I think, the demo funding one and now this one to continue with the full game. The other ones were pretty small amounts, even the demo one with 45k before any fee and rewards, if you make calculations, it's like 3 weeks of work for 4 people with a pretty basic salary. Most of it went into animating. I got a portion to build the code/engine and all, but it's all pretty bare minimum as far as money goes. That's the part I don't understand with the criticism about our funding, it's not like we got a lot to work with haha and still doing our best. For the full game we're partnering with animation studios that don't cost as much as individuals we worked with in the past. Should be able to release details about that in the near future.

gee i wonder why
That's right, not good enough to seal a great deal, basically the less convincing what you propose is, the more risky it seems (totally normal) and so the worst the deal gets, less funding is offered but usually also more % of sales to the funder/publisher.

A crisp $1 bill says that they mean this in the, "I once said hi to Arnold Schwarzenegger," kind of way.
No, company names you'd know, one in particular came real close. I don't think I can legally drop names here though. There were also other deals with purely funding companies but they usually want a pretty steep revenue share in the end. Like one wanted us to make a mobile game instead hehe.

I wish you best of luck, you're going to need every last drop of it
Probably true :) As far as wasting money talking to publishers and youtube people? No money was spent there. And if anyone are pissed at wasted moeny it's us! Like I said above, the money we gathered so far is not THAT much, do the maths, it's nothing! And we still have a decent demo/prototype/whatever you wanna call it. It's not standing up to scrutiny but we certainly have a pretty good framework now to proceed ahead turn it into something great.

This new Indiegogo represents the absolute self-destruction of their project, ESPECIALLY if it gets funded. If you respect any of the people working on this game, or the effort they've put in it so far, do NOT support this!
You're saying the project fails especially IF it's funded? And respecting the devs and team by NOT supporting us being able to keep working? Can you explain that? Not sure I understand that logic.

I'd love for this project to just defy the odds and soar as high as possible
That's hard to do if we don't get a bit of love :D

What if I can't help it
You should be able to help it, I know you were just cracking a joke but it applies to everyone who come with an attitude, we're the ones doing the hard work and risking our livelihood, all you have to do is sit back and watch how we succeed or fail, but there's really no need to be condescending to us, especially not to me lol. I work on the project and doing my best and hoping we do succeed in getting necessary funds to go ahead. Right now all the updates are done on my free time for free and same with the animators and we all have families and bills to pay, so the least you should do is be civil regarding our efforts, even when criticizing them, seems fair right? :)

I wonder if evil dog is still working on it or if he wised up and went on to better things
Both, I'm working on an action multiplayer game (almost done) and still doing BF updates for free on my free time. Integrating the missing Don moves was part of that, integrating his new shaded sprites and gradually fixing mechanics.

you are going to have to do a shitload of work to alter your current trajectory
Here's the thing, Mike Z had the great advantage of being the one with the indepth knowledge so it was brain to code, but I'm not, I'm still learning, the game designer knows all that and I'm the one who must translate that into code and playable mechanics, I have this huge todolist with all kinds of mechanic fixes and missing things, a few I've seen in your list as well, so I took your list and I'll review it. Thanks.


This is actually seriously helpful in general.
Definitely

OH AND YOU CAN'T CANCEL SPECIALS INTO SUPER. Supers can only be combo'd into from normals that are already special cancellable.
Like Mike said, most can't do it but Vincent can, that's his special thing, special to special canceling, especially in his fury mode. He can unleash hell.

If he's gone, then who the hell am I supposed to passively throw my argumentative comments at?
I'm here baby, lay it on me!

no I cant read, Trial mode is the stretch goal not training mode, ooooops <3
Bwaha, I accept your shameful love

A "training mode" is already in the demo, but it can barely even be called one
Yeah the training mode is shit right now.
well he says he'll come talk if he can get a new password. I'm not sure what reaction they expected, I don't think we're having a particularly unique reaction.
And what does it have to do with my account not working? We did expect that exact reaction.

It's know-how I'd expect from just about every forum user who doesn't work with computers and communicate with people over the internet as part of their job.
I'm not a forum person, it's almost the only forum I come to. And communicating with people on forums is not part of my job at all lol but I still do it cause I'm a nice guy :) Besides, the timing of this really seemed like a ban so I wasn't exactly trying hard to come back here, but since it's a misunderstanding, happy to be back in the meat grinder.

If I was in Evil's shoes I'd likely be responding in exactly the same way.
Good to know I'm not going bat shit crazy.

Back to the topic at hand, does anyone have more info on this 100k prize?
The data gathering portion of it is still going until June 16th, then the judging starts. I've gotten some emails with some stats, if amount of data is a big factor, we have zero chance. I think there's some pretty big game pulling a lot of people in that contest cause the total data count was very high compared to our own numbers.

It would have robots
Robot's Fury? haha

Phew! All caught up! Daaayuuummmm....
 
Have you done something a bit more simple than a fighting game in the past? a Puzzle game? A beat-em-up?
 
Have you done something a bit more simple than a fighting game in the past? a Puzzle game? A beat-em-up?
I've worked on Rainbow Six Vegas, Farcry 2 and Avatar: The Game at Ubisoft Montreal (Gameplay and AI).
Since I went indie, I'm making simpler web and mobile games such as the Road of the Dead series.
Working on an action multiplayer platformer (something like Unreal in 2D) at the moment.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Midiman
Here's the thing, Mike Z had the great advantage of being the one with the indepth knowledge so it was brain to code, but I'm not, I'm still learning, the game designer knows all that and I'm the one who must translate that into code and playable mechanics, I have this huge todolist with all kinds of mechanic fixes and missing things, a few I've seen in your list as well, so I took your list and I'll review it. Thanks.

Figuring stuff out on your own is great, and so is taking your time to put together a decent demo with all the mechanics done. I don't think that is the problem here.

Where myself and others really take issue is your team so liberally taking fan money during every step of development during your breaking in and admitted learning period for fighting games, something you have zero experience with. When so much is still left to do in the half-finished demo that people paid for and still haven't been addressed. Especially bad is promising so much new content that you honestly don't know you can deliver like new characters the more you are funded, and animated movies because who knows.

Your project lead has made decisions that have put you in a very uncomfortable position so it's completely understandable why you aren't going to badmouth something you are working on, it's common sense professionalism. Just understand the reason you may not get much funding this go around will be completely justified.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.