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bella combo factory and training dumbness mansion

Thank you for giving me a Devil Horn combo that I can actually do and not mess up on, Dragonos. u_u"
 
oh right, I'm supposed to do practical stuff too...
I guess I should start recording these corner counter hit combos, then.
 
Actually, question: do you have inputs for a strictly Devil Horn combo w/o assists?
 
SecretlyEngarde said:
Actually, question: do you have inputs for a strictly Devil Horn combo w/o assists?
precise what you want please. You want something midscreen or corner? Normal starter or something more funky? Some character specifism?
 
Light character, Fortune can be the example. Corner; normal starter.
 
I'll theory craft one, then, all I got is c.lk c.mk titan knuckle starter.
 
SecretlyEngarde said:
Light character, Fortune can be the example. Corner; normal starter.
works on every light, very easy :
c.lk c.mp c.hp
j.hp
titan knuckle devil horns
s.lk c.mk devil horns
s.mp c.hp
j.lp (mash) j.hp OR j.mk j.hp
s.lp s.mp s.hk copter dynamo
9110 damage, doing j.mk j.hp.
(edited : I derped pretty hard)

I'm surprised something that easy and not character-specific deals that much damage.
welp, new bnb then.


Another one I found :
c.lk c.mp c.hp
j.hp
s.lp c.mk titan knuckle devil horns
s.lk c.mk devil horns
s.hk copter dynamo
s.mp s.hk copter dynamo
9985 with 2 bars, 8928 for 1 bar.

Good things with this one are : it allows you to do more damage if you want to spend the bars, it lets you keep the otg until you use the first dynamo, so you do titan knuckle untechable knockdown if you don't have enough undizzy, and it lets you do if you want s.mp c.hp into reset at the end.
Problem is : it works on every light, but it requires some pretty weird timing for most of them to do c.mk titan knuckle devil horns.
I recommend using this one only on fortune and peacock, the combo is braindead on these two.
If you don't feel confident for the s.mp timing on otg, do c.mp. Easier, and the difference on damage is only 10.
 
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Hmm, feels like fresh air getting back to good ol' easy devil horns combos that deal damage and are practical and not char-specific!

on all lights who don't require a delay for c.mk titan knuckle to connect :
c.lk c.mk titan knuckle delay battle butt
c.hk devil horns
s.lk c.mk devil horns
s.mp c.hp
j.hp double jump j.lp (mash) j.hp
s.lp s.mp s.hk copter dynamo
around 9.95k depending on how many j.LPs you get.

notes : • missed the battle butt timing? who cares! You still got time to recover and otg c.lp :^p
• s.mp should hit as low as possible to make sure j.hp will connect. Don't forget to slightly delay j.hp if you still mess up to give you more chances to connect. If you really messed up too hard, do j.mk j.hp s.lp instead (deals more damage than simple j.lp mash j.hp)
• c.hk timing is tricky but is not hard. Don't forget to turn on ground tech when training this combo.
• c.mk titan knuckle doesn't require any specific timing on : filia/fukua, fortune, peacock, val when you're at a specific distance (but there's funnier stuff on her anyway so who cares)



If you want something that works on all lights and with a c.lk c.mp starter, do the same thing except start with c.lk c.mp titan knuckle run stop.
Will do 9.25k depending on j.LPs.
...
After testing...

c.lk c.mp titan knuckle battle butt
c.lp c.mk
j.mp j.hk
s.hp pummel horse
c.mp c.hp
j.lp j.hp
s.lk s.mp s.hk copter dynamo

deals exactly the same damage...9.25k...
welp...
 
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I did this exactly a week ago :

One week later...
I feel extremely stupid because there's a super easy way to just tweak the 3-kanchou combo to get a 4th one. Still, that one looks cool, so I can't complain.

But on the other hand...
I just found how to add a 5th kanchou...

I can't stop laughing.
I can't stop re-reading my notes to check if I didn't make a dumb mistake.
It's genius.
It's godlike.


I think I just climaxed.




I love this game.


Now to perform the combo...
 
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I am disappointed.

I was listening to this :
So I thought : "Hey, what combo could I get 20% cooler?"
I looked at what I done until now and I saw the 5 run stop combo.
So if I get to 6, it will be literally 20% cooler.
Now how to get 6?
Run stop links I know :
- s.hp RS lp/lk/mk
-c.mk titan knuckle RS lp/lk/mk
- s.hp RS j.lk/j.lp

Looking at IPS, only way to get to 6 run stops woul be to add that link :
c.mk titan knuckle RS s.mp
to the combo I did to get 5 run stops.

But it only works on lights, while the 5 run stop combo is heavies/eliza specific.

What do you do when you want to not care at all about weights?
You go against Marie.
Problem : how does titan knuckle works with Marie?
I know that you can titan knuckle run stop lp on her, but I have no idea if it has enough hitstun on her to allow for more.

Aaaaand I couldn't get s.mp to link.

So no Marie sexy combo.
(At the same time I feel so relieved, such a combo would have been horrible to perform, considering you get 1 try on Marie every 30 seconds)


No 6 run stops combo then?
Well maybe there's still a possibility.
May have to cheat doing c.mk or c.hp run stop into air chain...But then I could just do s.hp run stop deflector...And that's uber lame..
c.mk titan knuckle run stop s.hk doesn't work either...
eeeeh, I'll keep looking.
 
dragonos451 said:
works on every light, very easy :
c.lk c.mp c.hp
j.hp
titan knuckle devil horns
s.lk c.mk devil horns
s.mp c.hp
j.lp (mash) j.hp OR j.mk j.hp
s.lp s.mp s.hk copter dynamo
9110 damage, doing j.mk j.hp.
(edited : I derped pretty hard)

I'm surprised something that easy and not character-specific deals that much damage.
welp, new bnb then.


Another one I found :
c.lk c.mp c.hp
j.hp
s.lp c.mk titan knuckle devil horns
s.lk c.mk devil horns
s.hk copter dynamo
s.mp s.hk copter dynamo
9985 with 2 bars, 8928 for 1 bar.

Good things with this one are : it allows you to do more damage if you want to spend the bars, it lets you keep the otg until you use the first dynamo, so you do titan knuckle untechable knockdown if you don't have enough undizzy, and it lets you do if you want s.mp c.hp into reset at the end.
Problem is : it works on every light, but it requires some pretty weird timing for most of them to do c.mk titan knuckle devil horns.
I recommend using this one only on fortune and peacock, the combo is braindead on these two.
If you don't feel confident for the s.mp timing on otg, do c.mp. Easier, and the difference on damage is only 10.

Thanks for this. Didn't see the post until today.
 
I guess I should post it in this thread too, as I talked about it :
6 run stops combo

Also I started looking for optimal follow ups to 360 cancel devil horns.
For lights :
- midscreen :
360 DH
pummel horse (uses otg)
c.mp s.hp kanchou (may not work on a few chars because of hurtbox/how far they walk back during stagger)
DH
c.mk
j.mp j.hk
s.hp RS
c.lk c.mp c.hp
j.lp j.hp (230)
s.lp s.mp s.hk copter
6.6k

- corner :
• 360 DH
(dash if necessary)
c.lk c.mp TK DH
s.lk c.mk DH
j.lp j.hp
s.lp c.mk
j.mp j.hk
s.hp PH (235)
c.mp s.hk copter
6.2k

If you're badass and right against the corner :
360 DH
s.lk c.mp TK DH (no otg used)
c.mk DH (link is easier after the no otg chain)
c.hp
j.hp
s.lp c.mk
j.mp j.hk
s.hk copter dynamo (235)
c.lk c.mp TK copter
8k for 2 bars

Probably more stuff to try on lights, but I'm happy with that for now.
Mediums and heavies probably will leave less possibilities, butI'll see.
 
I found out that deflector didn't work exactly the same way in Beta and in retail (stop writing and read the rest of the sentence you idiot) when you play against Marie.
For some reason, it will annihilate in beta more hits of gigan skulls and both hits of divekick servants, which makes perfecting Marie using only deflector actually possible (in retail, deflecting gigan skulls would require 6 frame perfect deflectors in a row...).
My theory is...well I don't have any, it doesn't make sense at all o_o"

For the fun part : it means Marie is perfectable without using the 2nd phase skip tech. Managed to pull it out a few times.
Which means the equivalent of Marie 300%, her "typing of the skullgirls" counterpart....is perfectable without using supers...
Another thing to add to my todo list...
Foutreciel, that list is getting long...
 
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@CaioLugon @Icky @Zidiane @anyotherbellacombomakerthatdoesntentirelysuck
did you guys find new links for bella with the beta 25% superjump?

Results from my testings :
pros :
• c.hp j.hp s.lp is now possible on double (hard)
• c.hp j.mk j.hp j.mk/j.mp on mediums/heavies
• c.hp j.mp j.hp j.mk/j.mp on mediums/lights
• c.mk run stop resets are now possible and easy on every weight category. Which means every weight category goes sky high and has plenty of time to react with double jump or air jab...
• c.mk devil horns s.lp is now possible on double without using otg
• c.hp j.mp j.mk j.hp possible on parasoul, didn't test bella or eliza, midscreen okay. (hard)
• very stupid thing : c.mk run stop j.lk j.hp j.lp now possible midscreen on filia and parasoul, does a side switch on parasoul, and on filia, depending on the timing, you can get no side switch, 1 side switch or 5, 1 between each hit of a j.lp into s.lpx2 s.mp s.hk chain.

cons :
• c.mk titan knuckle whiffs, except on parasoul, but even on her it requires a delay, so no charge move follow up possible. Adios swag run stop/devil horns combos.
• c.hp j.hp c.mk isn't possible anymore
• c.hp j.mk j.hp s.lp isn't possible anymore
• c.mk pummel horse isn't possible anymore, used to work at specific distances
• c.hp j.hp double jump j.lp(mash) j.hp is less reliable
• most restands/j.hp follow ups are harder, especially the j.mp j.mk j.hp restand on double which now feel like a pain to pull out.
• c.mk into kanchou isn't possible anymore (that one really pisses me off)
• delaying j.mp after c.mk will end into a whiff way more often than in retail. And I'm not talking about a big delay, so now you can actually drop a combo because of that.

Other stuff seems to be unchanged.
 
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My laptop plays SG with hella slowdown. Discovering combo routes is frustrating and unreliable. I leave this task to you.
 
Soooo...
It may sound stupid that I understand this only now.
But everything Marie does is a projectile.


No, you don't get it.
EVERYTHING she does is a projectile.


You still don't get it, uh?
Bah, I can't blame you. Who cares about beating up Marie in every possible way besides me.


3rd phase skip here I come
 
While I'm in a deflecting mood, I just re-read the beta changes.
Gemology just got kickstarted.
 
gemology just earned a new section :
diamond dynamo combos.

I am officially on an epic quest to the 11 dynamos combo.
Get hype bitches.
 
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11 dynamos challenge has been proven possible.
follow up combo will be fully optimised.
Damn that feels good.

Recording that shit will be fuuuun ♪
 
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My head :
- hm, let's train the dynamo challenge combo.
- fuck, the follow up is too hard to be done reliably!
- no, problem, let's combo craft something else!
- eh, it's stylish, but there's no lvl3 in this one.
- but it's more swaggy!
- there's no badass side switch dynamo finisher!
- IT'S DOABLE AT LEAST!
- ...I guess we should train the easier combo then...
- wait it's not easier, we were just lucky to get it on the first try...
- let's combo craft something else then.
- eww, it's not even stylish this time...
- oh hey, didn't remember that music was in the playlist. Cool!
- but it's doable reliably
- considering how rarely the dynamo juggle happens the right way, we sure can't afford a too hard follow up if we want to do it even once for the record
- but this one suuuucks!
- it's doable...
- ugh, can't we try to combo craft something else?
- bah, we'll never get the first part to begin with. It seems possible, but to actually do it? I'm not su-
- SHUT UP! We need optimism here!
- I say we keep trying crafting a stylish yet not too hard follow up combo
- that's not the p-
- hey guys! Don't you think the run stop animation makes bella's hurtbox slightly tinier?
- oh shit you're right! I bet there's something to be done with it.
- guys focus please, what about the dynamo challenge combo?
- yoooooo, you can make the lvl3 whiff 3 times in a row with a run stop combo!
- wow, ending with run stop c.mk deflector, you get a cross down reset with c.lk deflector!
- oh shit the follow up combo will be hard to craft if we need to go through a s.hp RS c.mk link every try
- guys focus please
- hmm, we covered the situations where we bait the lvl3, but what if we did c.lk or something?
- interesting...hmm, doing deflector after the lvl3 super flash still allows a j.hk c.lk punish.
- wow, c.mp makes the lvl3 whiff in this case!
- and then it comes back right on time for the s.hp deflector!
- guys?
- cool, the rest of the combo seems easy to craft and perform
- unlike the reset combo...
- indeed, so that's easy, why don't we focus on the dynamo chall-
- seriously guys, we didn't even TRY working on para/squigly double lvl3 counter combos for 2 weeks!?
- that's not the probl-
- hey, there's more interesting stuff to work on, chill out.
- you mean the marie full skip isn't interesting?
- I didn't say that! But we're not even sure it will work!
- oh, because now you're sure the dynamo challenge is doable?
- about that, could we fo-
- weren't we supposed to do that big band dash jump side switch combo like a month ago?
- being late isn't a reason to be next in line, gemology is 8 months late! So be nice and wa-
- uh, not really, none of it was possible before.
- good lord, I'm hungry!
- can we get back to the chall-
- god, I love that song!
- we should first try the "no-bait" lvl3 punish midscreen to see if it works
- hey, is that even a punish? we left the forced counter hit on...
- people please! Let's act with discipline! Let's check what we have to do and decide once and for all!
what I have to do.png

index.php
-...
-...
-...
-the paper notes...that's all the corner counter hit combo possibilities, right?
- yeah.
- eh, good thing we gave up the "I don't forget project, amarite guys?
- that's not funny.
- what is in that "combos to do" text document?
- not much, just the BB side switch combo aaaand...the 5 kanchou combo.
-...
-...
-...
-...
-...
-...
-...
- what about we eat something?
- great idea.
- what's on YT tonight?
- not much, but there's still the kakutop league to watch.
- nice.
- the dynamo challenge damn it....
There's a lot of people in my fucking head.
 
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Back from a week skiing.
Fuck gemology for now, it waited 8 months to even get started, it can wait 8 more months to get finished.
Fuck all combos actually.

I want to do one thing.
Getting done with Marie. Getting done for good.
I'll full skip her ass.


I

will

kill

her.

I'll break this game.

Hell, if I can't do that with bella because too much fucking life, I'll learn robo fortune, who seems to have a great potential at Marie pwnage. Even without her specials, she seems very potent.
Hell, I would learn any character if it could lead to a Marie full skip.

...
Ahem
Maybe Bella will make it.
She better make it.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
I don't get it
And it appears even those who follow the how to beat marie thread didn't get it either.
Sigh...

This is the result of my full marie skip attempt, where I would kill her without letting her change phases even once. Which means stun her, do a combo that does as much damage as possible and lets you restun marie after a reset before she reaches 2nd phase health limit, then do the longest fucking marie specific combo of all time, deflect the schockwave she does after she gets to the 3rd phase transition limit, end the combo.

First quick combo does exactly the right damage with a 50 damage margin.
Full long ass combo (there is no damage scaling on Marie) :
J.lk j.mp j.hk (reset, marie isn't stun yet)
J.lp (stun) j.lk j.mp j.hp
S.lpx2 s.mp c.hp
J.hp j.hp
C.hp
Double jump cancel j.mp j.mk j.hp
S.mk s.hp run stop
J.lk j.mp j.hk
S.hk run stop
S.lpx2 s.mk s.hp run stop
J.lp j.lk j.mp j.hp
S.mp s.hp run stop
S.lk s.hp deflector on the shockwave, no ground normals left to keep the combo going, specials left are too slow or not super cancellable
Dynamo

All this in retail to get all the j.hp and s.hk damage. And copter but didn't get the chance to use it.

300h of marie beating experience, 3 weeks of theory crafting and testing, 10h to get the full thing out on record, and the result is this.
Can I be pissed?


....


Oh god no.
I just had an idea.
I give no more than 20% chance to work.

Oh no...

Omw to spend another 10h to try it...
 
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I should commission someone to draw me a "dragonos451 seal of approval". Won't use it very often, but would be nice.
 
Improved full skip tech has been proven possible at 50%. Now to see if the other 50% is possible.

I am getting good at doing that combo. I'm scaring myself.
 
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so, the Marie full skip tech I know for now is maybe doable. Maybe. But it's too hard. And I'm not even sure s.mp would combo after a deflector.

But there's hope. I knew about the fact that sometimes, Marie is stun and the 2 hit combo sign appears, and sometimes it doesn't appear even though Marie is stun. I didn't take too much care about it, and I was simply making sure it always appeared at the same moments, to ensure the same environment everytime I went for the combo.

I just made some experiment to check stuff about this. And it seems stunning Marie/getting a 2hit combo/getting a 3-4hit combo seem to be all part of the same mechanic, and getting bigger numbers depends on HOW FAST you hit, not really how hard.

My uber combo stuns Marie all right, but doesn't get the 2hit combo at any moment.

And guess what.
It appears getting the 2hit combo makes every following hit do more damage...
EDIT : or...not? I managed to get a 4 hit combo and the following hits didn't do any damage. How the fuck does Marie work?!
EDIT2 : and now I get a 5hit combo and it does damage again. WTF?

There is so much to be learned about Marie. I'm so excited I'm not even pissed about my current failure. Future discoveries may give birth to even greater successes.




What am I doing on this planet?
 
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you're doing something that entertains you and makes you feel like it's giving purpose to your free time. Beating Marie and skipping all of her phases is your goal. there is nothing wrong with that.
 
zeknife just asked me why I don't ask mikez about it.

I am highly hesitating. I want to know, but I want to find out by myself. And at the same time there are things I just can't comprehend, like why 4hitcombo does no more damage while 3 and 5 do. But my quest to becoming the one and only Marie expert shouldn't be stopped by such pityful obstacles.

I'll think about it.

Ninja said:
you're doing something that entertains you and makes you feel like it's giving purpose to your free time. Beating Marie and skipping all of her phases is your goal. there is nothing wrong with that.
I never said there was anything wrong. I just feel a bit lonely on this front.
 
dragonos451 said:
What am I doing on this planet?

You are doing something fan. Frigging. Tastic.

Lots of people play and enjoy games. You're doing more than that. You're dissecting it. Analyzing it. Mastering it.

You're looking past the spectacle and into the sheer mechanics of the game, similar to taking apart an electronic device to see how it works. You've opened the curtain to see the little bald man playing a piano.

This is how you start thinking less like a player, and more like a developer. Like a creator. You're building mastery and intellectual capital. What you do with this capital is up to you. Maybe it's tournaments. Maybe it's a book or a guide or something. Maybe you also take up coding and become the next Mike Z. The future potential you've created is yours.

What are you doing? You are truly owning the game. And that's awesome.
 
Stop the fanboy-ism. Seriously, that's disturbing.

You guys are weird. That or you're overthinking what I'm saying.
Just say "hey that's cool, I hope it will go well and you'll pull it out soon".
Or help me. But I know it won't happen. Not because I know too much so nobody can help me, I barely scratched the surface. Just because...who the fuck cares about Marie?
And that's okay.
 
Sorry, I've been reading a lot of self-help books lately and have an overflow of "you can do it!"-ness in my system. Didn't mean to gush...
 
Hey that's cool. Continuing calling out Marie for the weak Skullgirl she is and backing up your taunting.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Hey that's cool. Continuing calling out Marie for the weak Skullgirl she is and backing up your taunting.
No.
 
Marie being weak Skullgirl is canon I think. I stand by my statement
 
It appears you can only trigger the 2hit combo before she hits the 2nd phase health limit. So the first short combo needs to be even shorter if I want to get it for the long one. Which means less damage.
Problem : the damage bonus from the 2hit combo state is...small. Something like 5% additional damage. Which is not enough to counter balance the damage I give up by doing a shorter set up combo to trigger the effect.

My only hope right now is that the 2hit combo state triggers even if the sign doesn't show, so I would get the normal setup combo AND the bonus damage. What are the chances on that..
And if that doesn't work...eh, maybe I'll have new ideas, my brain is focusing on Marie 24/7.

Also a note if Bella really can't full skip marie :
I am very disappointed that robo-fortune's super laser doesn't link after anything else than s.hk. Means that it will link after nothing against Marie and will be entirely unusable...
 
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