Castlevania

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Jutsei, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    Speaking of HD, I think imma pick up the rest of the dlc for Harmony of Despair. I only have Simon stage and Go Getsu Fuuma currently.
     
  2. Jutsei

    Jutsei Unwavering Hype

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    I'll have to repurchase Harmony of Despair at some point
     
  3. SanoBaron

    SanoBaron Delicious chewable Hubba-Bella

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    if we ever play harmony of despair together on PS3, I call Soma.
     
  4. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    I only need Johnathon aka the Terry Bogard of Castlevania.

    SHOWTIME

    HAVE A NICE DAY
     
  5. SanoBaron

    SanoBaron Delicious chewable Hubba-Bella

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    thats fine because...

    I AM THE HELLBOY OF CASTLEVANIA! and Hellboy is the shit, therefore I am the shit by association!
     
  6. Zeriam

    Zeriam Knight of Skittles

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    Very well. Then I shall be the badass of glyph wielding. I call Shanoa.
     
  7. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    Anybody know if the Konami ReBirth titles are ever going to be ported somewhere else? I've been avoiding the WiiShop for years, but it looks like it's still the only way I'm ever going to play that stuff legit. Not like I need to put more Castlevania on my plate, but I was remembering that the Adventure remake did look pretty fun.
     
  8. SanoBaron

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    I think the adventure was good. I can't remember anything bad about it per say.
     
  9. Squire Grooktook

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    All the ReBirth games were very fun. Contra Rebirth isn't as big as Contra 4, nor Gradius Rebirth as big as Gradius V, but they are still very entertaining.
     
  10. Squire Grooktook

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  11. Cynical

    Cynical Sulphur and Mercury

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    Are you kidding me? That's great news.

    Iga is the guy who ruined Castlevania. Rondo, SotN, HoD, Aria, Dawn... all varying shades of "bad". Even OoE's level design was nothing but endless "monster corridors". The one good modern Castlevania, CotM, is the one that he wasn't involved in and that he retroactively declared as non-cannon just because he wasn't involved with it.

    Seriously, good riddance. Maybe the series can be good again.
     
  12. Squire Grooktook

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    Naw.

    SOTN is good but over-rated, and despite its flaws it does still have some really interesting elements that I haven't seen in any other game. Rondo is also really good. Harmony of Dissonance was pretty meh. Aria was solid, but still not quite spectacular.

    Dawn of Sorrow though, is one of the greatest Metroidvania's ever made imo. Kicks the shit out of any Metroid game and all the other Castlevania Metroidvania's. Fantastic exploration, great pacing, varied environments (both aestheticly and gameplay wise), cool mechanics and a shit ton of fun weapons and abilities, length is just right, amazing boss fights, challenge just right. If you don't like it, that's fine, maybe Metroidvania's just aren't your thing. But there is no arguing that it's a bad game. It was fucking fantastic.

    Portrait of Ruin and Order of Eclessia were mixed bags. Some of the portraits in the former were excellent fun, others were not. Same goes for Eclessia, though not quite extreme (less amazing sections, but less mediocre ones as well). They definitely should have fooled with room set ups more and enemy placement less (see: Rogue Legacy), though areas like Nation of Fools hinted at what could have been if they got the idea right.

    However the bosses across ALL the Ds Castlevania's were consistently excellent. Honestly, given the much smoother controls and more fun boss fights and mechanics, I'd take any of the Castlevania Metroidvania's over the actual Metroid series or just about any other Metroidvania (bar a few exceptions) any day of the week.

    I agree Circle of The Moon was excellent. It's worth noting that last time I checked its canon status had been changed to "semi canonical" or some shit.

    Fat chance. Welcome to God of Whip Chain. All day, every day.

    From here on out, it's severely uninspired hack and slash combat and an aesthetic courtsey of developers who seem to have no concept of what made the setting charming.

    And seriously did you even see Mirror of Fate? I played it at Comic Con. They have no idea what they're doing. It's like everything boring about 2d combat mixed with everything boring about 3d combat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  13. SkullMan

    SkullMan Hair-Raising Fighter

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    I enjoyed Super Castlevania IV since it produced some great visuals and the fact that there are multiple paths and endings.
    I also had fun with Castlevania: SOTN, but the boss that really creeped me out so far was
    Show Spoiler
    Granfaloon/Legion

    The fact that its composed of nothing but humanoid bodies with whatever that is at the center...horrible. Made me uncomfortable during the fight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  14. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    Hngh! What is this feeling? I can sense...a Kickstarter...approaching rapidly. Many innocent wallets will surely perish!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
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  15. Squire Grooktook

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    Yeah Legion is one of the best designs ever.

    Beelzebub is pretty horrible too if you haven't seen him yet.
     
  16. Jutsei

    Jutsei Unwavering Hype

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    My heart broke when I read that.
    I was so so so hoping we'd get a new Metroidvania that isn't reboot land now that LoS is over.
     
  17. Broseidon Rex

    Broseidon Rex POWER UP!

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    So am I the only one who likes/recognizes Lament of Innocence? That was my first Castlevania game and I enjoyed it. Although there was not much of the "use new abilities to access old places" that is signature to this series, I enjoyed the action, the platforming parts, the variety of uses for each sub-weapon and the soundtrack. It's also the first thing I think of when I see Vergil

    The original Gucci belt
     
  18. Jutsei

    Jutsei Unwavering Hype

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    I liked Curse of Darkness and Lament of Innocence and thought they weren't given a fair shake.
    So yes, I like them
     
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  19. Zazz

    Zazz Mysterious.

    I agree with this. Curse is the better of the two since its Crispin Freeman vs. Liam O'Brien and that's amazing. Also it has some of Yamane's best music. And it's pokemon but with demons!

    Obviously Lab Zero showed that Konami isn't a great place to work with.

    LZ should call him up for help on the evitable Skullgirls Side-Scrolling Adventure/Dating Sim
     
  20. Cynical

    Cynical Sulphur and Mercury

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    Are you confusing SCVIV with Rondo or SNES Dracula X? SCVIV doesn't have multiple paths or multiple endings.

    Also, the best 16 bit Castlevania was by far Akumajo Dracula for the X68000. Aside from that, it's Caslevania 1 and III for life.
     
  21. SkullMan

    SkullMan Hair-Raising Fighter

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    You are right. I mean Dracula X. Sorry about that.
     
  22. Jutsei

    Jutsei Unwavering Hype

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    I don't think Konami is that bad to work with, maybe Iga just had it with the Remakes and wanted to make something else.
    I'll gladly buy any game or Metroidvania he gets involved with
     
  23. SanoBaron

    SanoBaron Delicious chewable Hubba-Bella

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    if he makes another game with a not-Soma, I'll definitely buy it. Soma always felt like a character that should have been allowed to have his own franchise in the castlevania universe.
     
  24. Squire Grooktook

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    My best hope for the franchise right now is that they'll pull a Hard Corps Uprising and hand it off to some other competent Developer (or give it to Way Forward like they did for Contra 4. That worked incredibly well.)

    Otherwise I see them treating it like Capcom and Mega Man: Letting it languish while fans complain, or try to do a weird reboot like Yaiba that nobody wants or just keep milking LOS.

    Speaking of Contra 4, I think we need a Contra thread.
     
  25. Jutsei

    Jutsei Unwavering Hype

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    LOS is the last one, no more.
    THankfully
     
  26. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    Heheheh, necro bump for the Dark Lord, and for the Holy Bloodline.

    Been on a bit of a binge playing the classic arcade style CV's lately. The thing I really love in these games is how Konami managed to create such a different sense of combat and immersion from their other franchises. Contra is freestyle dodging and shooting, but Castlevania with its dangerously punishable offensive and defensive options that force you to commit to your choices (whip locks you in place, jump direction can't be reversed, etc.) leaves you feeling like a vulnerable human relying on wits to overcome inhumanly strong supernatural foes. It's also real nice change of pace from the freestyle shooting of shmups when simply poking an enemy takes planning and/or reflexes. Demands a really unique skillset.

    I actually am not sure I agree with Cynical on Akumajo Dracula 68K being my favorite (even though that sentiment has been echoed by many players). It's a fantastic game and I love it, don't get me wrong. But I feel that making jumps more lenient (you can reverse your direction now) among other things removes the aforementioned feeling of vulnerability and fighting game-esque commitment. Personally I lean to Castlevania 1 and Bloodlines right now as my favorites. Still an awesome game though, I definitely want to 1cc it.

    I think CV1 nails that feeling of vulnerability just right. It's methodical, but not too methodical. I'm a big fan of the last 3 boss fights too, intense encounters where one is 100% forced to utilize both planning and reflexes against an onslaught of unpredictable rush down from the bosses (assuming you don't/can't stunlock them to death with holy water). My only complaint is that, while they're solid, the stages themselves don't have enough of this reflex action. A bit too predictable once you learn them, especially the first 3 stages where falling off a ledge is really the only way to die if you're good.

    Bloodlines has a much faster pace and cooler moveset, and I feel it lessons that sense of vulnerability and instead focuses on making the encounters feel like evenly matched duels instead of the fights in CV1 where you're barely hanging on to survival through your sub weapons and wits against faster foes (not an unwelcome change, since the action still has that unique CV flavor and skillset). It's really great fun to pull off Eric or John's invincibility frame moves to go through enemy attacks while simultaneously setting yourself up to damage them even more. I also LOVE the addition of light vs heavy attacks, makes stunlocking larger foes to death so much fun! The stage design is also very good imo, lots of varied hazards, smartly placed enemies, and a solid balance between pattern and randomness (reflex) based challenges. I actually think the last few bosses are a bit of a let down, especially compared to CV1's action packed end game, but it's still a blast to speed kill them. Corner trapping Dracula himself is just the most hype thing ever.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  27. Cynical

    Cynical Sulphur and Mercury

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    CV1 over CV3? Explain.
     
  28. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    Probably because of that last RNG Hell boss trinity alone, heh. CV3 Dracula got nothing on the original incarnations telefragging nightmare. A bit too many static patterns in CV3 for my taste so far, though maybe additional 1cc attempts will unveil more rng that I'm not aware of. I also kind of like the shortness of CV1's loops. I like longer arcade games actually (30-45 minutes or so ideal length for me), but for a game as methodical as Cv, I think I prefer for things to get to the point faster.

    Might change when I put more 1cc attempts into CV3. I've beaten it, but haven't 1cc'd it yet.
     
  29. Zeriam

    Zeriam Knight of Skittles

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    Then you need to get on my level with Syfa.
     
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  30. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    Dem lightning orbs.
     
  31. Horseman

    Horseman This place ain't how it used to be

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    Recently replayed castlevania dawn of sorrow.
    I kept thinking about how much better that game would have been if they cranked up the soul drop rate to like 5x what it is. I love the game but I hate sitting there grinding for like 2 hours so that I could get myself a god damn valkyrie soul.
     
  32. Squire Grooktook

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    You know, I've been thinking, when you compare Castlevania to Contra, it really shows how clever and creative the folks at Konami were back then. Not only in terms of gameplay, but the way the gameplay works so well with the aesthetic.

    Contra gives you complete freedom of movement and attack, shooting on the run and changing direction mid air. The game throws fast and unpredictable enemies at you because it knows you can take it, with the controls and handling of a veritable one man army. Reflexes can save you from almost any mistake, and you always feel like you have the potential to get out of any scrape. For that reason, the one man army "Rambo Vs Aliens" aesthetic and setting just fit so damn well.

    Castlevania is the complete opposite (well, they both have a lot of random stuff you have to react to). The dangerous and unsafe commitment to punishable attacks and unalterable jumps creates a sense of vulnerability. The player character is fragile and human, using superior wits, skill, and the environment to outfox the brute force of enemies. There is no escape like Contra, if you fail to read enemy movements and plan ahead you will get trapped. In terms of gameplay, it feels like such a unique, different experience that puts a much greater emphasis being able to think on the fly and perceive how events will unfold in order to manuever yourself into the right place. The gothic horror setting just works so well for it too: it completely justifies the focus on melee combat, and the supernatural horror based enemies reinforce the sense of vulnerability.

    Of course, the aesthetics could easily have been ignored if the games were/weren't good. But it just shows how much thought they put into everything.


    It's really a shame Mercury Steam weren't more smart with the design of Lord of Shadows, like the older games. Just look at Dark Souls: the combat mechanics entirely embody the playstyle and sense of vulnerability in the arcade style CV's within a 3d environment, while the map design manages to perfectly channel Metroidvania style exploration. If God of Whip Chain had been something more like that, it could have been a true example of bringing the franchise into a new direction with the third dimension. As it stands IMO it's just a generic action game with an aesthetic and story that fails to capture the charm of Classic Cv's universe. Not bad, but not worthy of the franchise's roots either.

    It wouldn't have been impossible to do otherwise. Maximo is a great example of a western developer taking on a classic 2d JP franchise (Ghouls and Ghosts) and staying true to its charm and experience goals while offering something completely new and unique (both from the original game, and competitors within the genre) in the third dimension.

    Even if they stayed 2d and arcade or metroidvania styled, there were so many innovative things they still could have done with the franchise if they wanted to take it in a new direction. Ah, oh well. A shame that most (keyword: most) Triple A developers don't seem to have the creativity of design that the old masters had. And almost nobody has much appreciation for the arcade style 2d format, alas.

    I really hope the guy at Mercury Steam doesn't follow up on his stated interest in doing the same thing he did to CV to Contra. Say what you will about it's flaws, but Arcsys's Contra Hardcorps: Uprising was an ideal new direction for the franchise. Totally new mechanics and ideas that greatly change up the playstyle in a fresh and fun way, and concessions to casuals without nullifying the arcade based structure. Yes, it was very flawed in terms of design (dumb fucking pea shooter recoveries that take ten years to kill boss 3 and 4, occasional level design hiccups, deflect/vault moves are brain dead and don't belong in a side scroller imo, etc.), yes, but that's all the more reason it would be a great new direction for the franchise: There's so much room for improvement of the already interesting air dashy playstyle. Would be far cooler then story based Gears of Contra or whatever the hell Mercury Steam would do to bring it to the masses.

    Show Spoiler
    Maybe if it played like Vanquish it'd be alright tho
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2014
  33. Horseman

    Horseman This place ain't how it used to be

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    I think it has to do with the tools they had. On the NES or SNES you couldn't really do a lot of direct theming like having big spooky monsters gruesomely kill your digital girlfriend in a dumb opening cutscene, or have the art team draw up a super spooky haunted house setting. You had to get creative with it which makes games like the first couple castlevania's masterpieces of subtle theming. Now you can just throw a jump scare or two in there and call it an action horror thriller thing, like what dead space does. Okay, that's a neat tool, but leaning on it like a crutch just makes a shitty action game. When you see an enemy you should be terrified- not just because he LOOKS terrifying but because the ensuing fight (or chase or what have you) is fucking terrifying.
     
  34. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    Indeed. One thing that I really love his how the best of these classic games created the feeling of controlling a unique protagonist with a particular aesthetic purely from gameplay.

    Contra and Castlevania I already mentioned, but there are quite a few great examples out there.

    Show Spoiler


    Shinobi/Shadow Dancer = A slightly slower move speed but a large move set, and very wide open and vertical level design allow you to play exactly like a true Ninja: observing enemy patterns from out of sight and then dropping down to one shot them before they can react or retaliate. Of course, for variety's sake there's still one on one duels and parts where you have to dash into a group of enemies who see you coming, but the ability to maneuver around stages with your high reaching jump and one shot enemies with well placed shuriken's or melee attacks really nails the stealthy assassin feel in an otherwise action packed game.

    Assault Suit Valken/Leynos (and spiritual successors Gigantic Army and Gunhound) = emulates the feeling of a mech with extremely weighty, deliberately cumbersome handling on the player character. But mastery of the controls and precise maneuvering (cancelling landing impact with jet pack, precise timing of dashes, etc.) allow you to smoothly build momentum and become a heavy metal engine of explosions and chaos that blazes through all in its path. Results in a game that nails the heavy, powerful, and destructive feel of a mech while having a very satisfying skill ceiling and onus on mastery of its mechanics.

    Alisia Dragoon = Probably one of the best emulations of a "Squishy Wizard" in action game format. Emphasis on spacial control through your homing attack and familiars, and the need to take cover and hold at bay faster and more aggressive enemies as you try to charge up your screen clearing magic nuke, all converge to capture the feel of strategic choice and devastating magic fireworks normally reserved only for rpg wizards.

     
  35. Birdo!

    Birdo! Forever in Training Mode

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    I've only played 1 and Symphony of the Night but I liked em both. Anybody here have Harmony of Despair? Would you recommend it?
     
  36. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    It's...it's...coming! I'm sorry budget, but I can't protect you much longer!

    swordorwhip.com
     
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  37. Jutsei

    Jutsei Unwavering Hype

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    If you pick Sword you are forever part of the Uncool Kids Corner.
    Whip it good
     
  38. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    Sword is better for Metroidvania's, but the whip is better for the playstyle in classic Castlevania (longer start up but greater reach). If he does do a Metroidvania though, I hope he evolves the whole formula with more in depth level design like in Rogue Legacy and mechanics like Order of Ecclessia.

    I mentioned in the SMT thread, but I started playing Rondo of Blood lately. Great fun. It's not as devilishly deep and challenging as Akumajo Dracula x68, or as hot bloodedly agressive as CV: Bloodlines (rapid fire pummeling enemies and combo'ing them with sub weapons doesn't feel nearly as rewarding), but it's a pretty great extension of the Nes games gameplay with an utterly bitchin sense of style.
     
  39. Broseidon Rex

    Broseidon Rex POWER UP!

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  40. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    He's the Keiji Inafune of CV.

    He didn't have anything to do with the older games, but he signed up for the series during Symphony of The Night (contrary to popular belief, he was not the director, designer, or programmer for that game) and became the producer/planner for all subsequent games in the franchise (ie most of the metroidvanias).
     

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