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Double general discussion!

Sadistic Cyanide said:
Double doesn't has an air dash, bro. If that's what you're wondering.


Jump cancelable dash.

Not dash cancelable jump.

2 different things... My question still stands then.
 
Dime_x said:
Jump cancelable dash.

Not dash cancelable jump.

2 different things... My question still stands then.
Oh... derp on my end. Sorry about that. :oops:
 
What I love the most from this version's Double is her improved Luger. It's so full of class and now I can use it a lot more, even in combos!

I don't miss much from the old Double other than her backdash. With catheads, the only thing I miss is the infinitely better control you had over it (macros). Being able to block during it was messed up though. If there was only a way to just make Double unable to block whenever the catheads had active hitboxes, thus allowing macros without being broken. I can dream...

Any tips on what types of conversions you can get when you hit someone air to air?
 
what are you hitting them a to a with?

if i know i am going to get them with j.hp, i call a late pillar assist and confirm off of that.

i like the new back dash, personally. great for running away and keeping double at optimal space for air footsies, it just sucks close up
 
I'm just picking up Double as my assist for Filia. I'm not great, yet, but I'm looking for a Double assist that better fits my Filia play. Obviously Butt Bomber comes to mind, but does Double have any other great assists for Filia specifically? I like to IAD around a lot like a jerk... if that helps.
 
The two best assists that Double can offer Filia are lk hornet bomber and mk hornet bomber.

lk HB is much easier to use because it have invincibility on start up great lock down and ok range making it easier to convert off of than the mk version

mk HB has is great for conner pressure and a descant anti-air its a bit harder to use because it pushes them away for harder conversions, they can duck it mid screen so its not that great when used up close and its not invincible on start up so you have to cover it with your normals for a safe call. If you want to see it in action just watch Duckator's Filia he uses mk HB very well.

I use lk HB but its really just preference so try them out and see which you like best. As for other assists besides HB you can try Cilia Slide but HB is the most consistent assist Double has.

Shumanigans said:
Any tips on what types of conversions you can get when you hit someone air to air?

off of j.hp if your low enough to the ground or falling when you hit them you can do an instant j.lp into barrel loop if you don't have an assist to help you out.
 
Pandamanana said:
I'm just picking up Double as my assist for Filia. I'm not great, yet, but I'm looking for a Double assist that better fits my Filia play. Obviously Butt Bomber comes to mind, but does Double have any other great assists for Filia specifically? I like to IAD around a lot like a jerk... if that helps.
Since so much of filias offense is high overheads, it makes people stand up.

This means that filia can weild assists that normally would be duckable and not have the opponent duck them...

So filia makes mk hornet bomber really stupid cause you can't really safely duck it.

Doubles lp gun might be similarly useful for filia since it can be ducked, but you don want to duck against filia much.
 
GirlyStyle said:
i like the new back dash, personally. great for running away and keeping double at optimal space for air footsies, it just sucks close up

I think the real reason I don't like it is that it's squigly's dash but worse, and it wasn't great to begin with.

I didn't know there was enough time to j.lp after j.hp in certain heights. I'll try it out. And yeah I was thinking no assist. Mostly off of j.hp too since everything else (j.hk is a different story) can be cancelled into j.mk . barrel or fridge. Thanks.
 
So wow... Double is sooooo good now. Like really fast bu safe in her speed unlike run based characters... Double now has the trfecta of movements that are really good in sg:

Double jump
The best dash in the game (parasouls, cause it has little startup but still has auto block built in)
And a ridiculously high priority jump attack.

Plus all the op goodies she always had like easily confirmable air and ground throw.
Crazy stupid good install (that now has to be thought about rather than spammed but is just as good as it ever was if you didn't use assist macros)

Plus she now has some crazy stupid assist crossups thanks to flesh step.

Double is imho up there with Val now. The only thing she really doesn't have that is really good is a standing overhead. And she's the only character in the game with a command dash crossup...


Why do people think she sucks? Lol I'm bewildered.
 
Dime_x said:
Why do people think she sucks? Lol I'm bewildered.
I think it's mostly because she changed so much, and not necessarily because she's bad.
Also because they think 2 meter cat heads is a way bigger deal than it actually is.
 
Catheads should be 5 meters.

Megacrotch should be 2 meters.
 
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Cat heads is still great. Only 1 meter off DHC, and its practically a free hit. Although, I really need to play against some people who are good at PBGC'ing it.
Shumanigans said:
I think the real reason I don't like it is that it's squigly's dash but worse, and it wasn't great to begin with.

I didn't know there was enough time to j.lp after j.hp in certain heights. I'll try it out. And yeah I was thinking no assist. Mostly off of j.hp too since everything else (j.hk is a different story) can be cancelled into j.mk . barrel or fridge. Thanks.

Thats one of the reasons why Updo/Pillar are so awesome on double. J.HP+Assist = easy ass confirm. And if they block you can cross them up or throw.
 
Shumanigans said:
Any tips on what types of conversions you can get when you hit someone air to air?

In addition to what winnie said, if you can land a J.HK after hitting someone with a J.HP or J.MP you can

J.HP(or MP), J.HK -Land-
J.MK, Fridge
Dash Cr.MP, St.HK
Barrel loops. You should be able to get 2 before undizzy kicks in.
GirlyStyle said:
i like the new back dash, personally. great for running away and keeping double at optimal space for air footsies, it just sucks close up
That's the main problem with it. It does everything else fine, but in the past I would back dash away from a bad situation and I can't do that anymore. Everything else is pretty much purrrfect for me
Dime_x said:
Double is imho up there with Val now. The only thing she really doesn't have that is really good is a standing overhead. And she's the only character in the game with a command dash crossup...


Why do people think she sucks? Lol I'm bewildered.
They probably haven't gotten used to doing the more damaging combos and working with the new tools she gained. 1 meter cat heads with macro will always be better imo, but everything else about double that was bad is better/good now.(except back dash)
 
when i first started playing i was actually mad at how they changed her. but after playing a bit, having parasouls forward dash is insanely good for her lol. that backdash is straight poopie though.

double with parasouls slow tear shot assist = really good pressure
 
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Yeah her backdash is crappy. But oh my god her airthrow game is stupid good and her crossup game with blocked hitconfirm into flesh step + updo or pw cr.mp is insane. Dubs probably has the best airthrow game in the game now. Which funnily enough makes her pretty decent against updo teams cause she can dash airthrow from the right range and if they empty jumped back with updo, she still airthrows them, but if she guesses wrong and they called updo while on the ground... Updo misses her by going behind her jump arc.

I love point double right now... My biggest problem is finding a good assist for her... I want range and lockdown and invincibility... If only she could use her hornet bomber as an assist...LOL
 
Dime_x said:
Yeah her backdash is crappy. But oh my god her airthrow game is stupid good and her crossup game with blocked hitconfirm into flesh step + updo or pw cr.mp is insane. Dubs probably has the best airthrow game in the game now. Which funnily enough makes her pretty decent against updo teams cause she can dash airthrow from the right range and if they empty jumped back with updo, she still airthrows them, but if she guesses wrong and they called updo while on the ground... Updo misses her by going behind her jump arc.

I love point double right now... My biggest problem is finding a good assist for her... I want range and lockdown and invincibility... If only she could use her hornet bomber as an assist...LOL
I feel your pain... I can never find an assist for her.
 
HP.LNL, Any of Bella's command grabs, LP napalm shot, and most of Squigly's assists all work great with Double
 
Dime_x said:
I love point double right now... My biggest problem is finding a good assist for her... I want range and lockdown and invincibility... If only she could use her hornet bomber as an assist...LOL
Screwball Cannonball = Range and Lockdown
Updo/Napalm Pillar = Invincibility (and AA)
 
i actually think slow shot with parasoul is better than the dp assist for double. you get in basically for free, endless pressure with it too. you gotta be better with blocking though because you dont have the invuln mash assist however
 
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how does double fight against painwheel? one thing i like to do is flesh step past painwheel but that doesn't really get me many hits.
 
Gamesandgoodies said:
how does double fight against painwheel? one thing i like to do is flesh step past painwheel but that doesn't really get me many hits.


Painwheel has a hard time stopping doubles j.hp... So seek to abuse that in the matchup. The primary way for painwheel to deal with that is to out range double. But now with double having a cancelable dash its harder for painwheel to outrange her.

A trick to use is to dash towards painwheel and call updo as you recover. Depending on spacing it can make painwheel wary of being anywhere near the vicinity of double.

Stupid things you can do is car and wait till you are underneath flying painwheel, then dhc to filia fenrir drive for the AA.

To make that easier you can just slide under painwheel then cancel to car and immediately cancel to fenrir. This of course being an expensive AA but situationally worth it when painwheel can do little about it.
 
Dime_x said:
advice.
i don't use fillia and she's low on my characters that I would want to try to use. before her i would try to use parasoul, squiggly, and peacock.

This thing is i don't have anywhere near a decent of any of those to feel it's even worth it to use them.
 
Gamesandgoodies said:
i don't use fillia and she's low on my characters that I would want to try to use.

I'm already riding OmniSScythe's dick with my Val/Double team. I don't want to ride Duckator's too.
 
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Double without filia assist???

Y'all act like you as tight as Dime x


:)

Lol, ahem, that's my attempt at being funny...

Like I said , painwheel has a really hard time with doubles j.hp. So you should seek to abuse it against painwheel as much as possible.

Case in point, an evo match I had... I played my trio team against a rather unorthodox solo pw he killed my first 2 characters with ease but... I was double last and I just used my trio double to kill his solo painwheel from near full health with nothing but j.hp Really and some combos. Next match I would have switched to solo double, but since I won I just changed my team order to double up first and killed him outright with her.

Point being that it cramps painwheels style hella. I shouldn't have been able to beat that pw with trio double... But he obviously didn't know how to deal with it.

Now in sde though, like I said, its harder for pw to keep double out because double now has a really good dash jump and can easily get airthrows or dash jump j.hp.
 
If you're in range jumping HP is really good because it beats her armored moves, but be aware that if you throw out that move and your opponent does super you will lose.

Dash up jump airthrow is really strong like dime mentioned, and the new parasoul dash makes it an even better option to go for.

Jumping HK is also a very good tool at neutral. If painwheel is above you, do J.HK.
If she's flying away from you, put out a J.HK in front of you. This is because if she tries to attack you, she'll often just run into it and it will beat her armored attacks. (It stays out for a really good amount of time as well)

You can also try using luger(lugar? idk) against her, but its kinda hard to get the angle you want at times... I personally don't have the cojones to go for it if she's about to do her J.MP or J.HP at me, but otherwise I'd just shoot it at her and pray it hits to go in.
 
o didn't really think j.HP would beat out most of painwheels stuff, whenever i tried it she would just beat it but it was prolly my lack of range knowledge of painwheel and her baiting it out. didn't think going air to air against painwheel would be a good idea.
 
Gamesandgoodies said:
o didn't really think j.HP would beat out most of painwheels stuff, whenever i tried it she would just beat it but it was prolly my lack of range knowledge of painwheel and her baiting it out. didn't think going air to air against painwheel would be a good idea.
j.HP can beat most of Painwheel's buttons. You can also jump back j.HK, that's a very annoying move for Painwheel to deal with. HP gun can be a good anti air but again it needs to be spaced right; too close or too far and the shot will miss completely, then you're boned. But if you can space it right it's really strong since you can dash in and get a combo off the knockdown.
 
As far as I know... It isn't just that painwheel has a hard time with dubs j.hp... Painwheel literally has no buttons to beat that move in situations where doubles j.hp is ranged right and both painwheel and double hit there buttons on the same frame.

The problem is that doubles j.hp is either more range or faster than every one of painwheels air normals. The ones it isn't faster than, it has more range. The only move that pw has that can outrange it (charged j.hp) gets destroyed by j.hp armor, or is easily duckable when done at range...

Painwheels "answers" are generally:


Out range it
Airsuper
Correctly ranged and timed st.mk
Ground hk buer
Air lk buer
Air j.lk or j.lp
Jump back medium punch on some occasions

But with the exception of airsuper, none of these are particularly great and most lose unless timed perfect when the doubles timing is off.

I definitely forgot about j.hk.. Though I think a good pw can airsuper it on reaction if her ranging is good... It doesn't affect painwheel fast which allows her time to react and double cant cancel it into a dash back like peacock... But it's more of a theory fighter counter to be sure.. I've only done it a few times.
 
You should be able to charge grounded s.HP and cancel into LK.Buer, provided you don't eat all 4 hits, or you're in Install.
 
Is it deliberate that Double can't cancel back dash into forward dash, or is that an oversight?
 
Hey, anyone got any tips for doing barrel loops, I'm having problems with the timing.
 
destruction_adv said:
Hey, anyone got any tips for doing barrel loops, I'm having problems with the timing.
You probably just need to tighten the chain. That's what the problem is most of the time, the chain isn't tight enough so you aren't high enough for it to work.
 
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Horseman said:
You probably just need to tighten the chain. That's what the problem is most of the time, the chain isn't tight enough so you aren't high enough for it to work.
Thanks a lot for the info, I'm not consistent landing the stuff yet, but it's working for me a lot more than before. Hopefully I'll have this down soon.
 
destruction_adv said:
Thanks a lot for the info, I'm not consistent landing the stuff yet, but it's working for me a lot more than before. Hopefully I'll have this down soon.


It took me a long time to learn how to barrel loop. Having said that, it is an incredibly easy combo once it's been learned... It's just hard to learn.

The tighten your chain advice is good and likely the best overall advice to get. But there is one more caveat:

You literally CANNOT do the first hit to fast. As fast as possible is always better.
That advice alone makes it so much easier. You see the "trick" to the combo is that it works better the lower the opposing character is to the ground.. But while double is still going up. If double is coming down then the combo will just flop horribly. So imho the best practice is to just do st.hk and practice getting your first j.lp out as fast as possible.

The good news though is that barrel loops do great damage, work against everyone and are hard to drop once you do get the timing down.
 
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Dime_x said:
It took me a long time to learn how to barrel loop. Having said that, it is an incredibly easy combo once it's been learned... It's just hard to learn.

The tighten your chain advice is good and likely the best overall advice to get. But there is one more caveat:

You literally CANNOT do the first hit to fast. As fast as possible is always better.
That advice alone makes it so much easier. You see the "trick" to the combo is that it works better the lower the opposing character is to the ground.. But while double is still going up. If double is coming down then the combo will just flop horribly. So imho the best practice is to just do st.hk and practice getting your first j.lp out as fast as possible.

The good news though is that barrel loops do great damage, work against everyone and are hard to drop once you do get the timing down.
Thanks for this too. I just got done with practicing it again. Knowing to do the first hits fast was a very good peice of information though. It made it so much better getting it, and I have the first barrel drop of the combo I'm trying to learn mostly down (I need to practice the timng on linking out of the barrel on the ground though.)
 
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destruction_adv said:
Thanks for this too. I just got done with practicing it again. Knowing to do the first hits fast was a very good peice of information though. It made it so much better getting it, and I have the first barrel drop of the combo I'm trying to learn mostly down (I need to practice the timng on linking out of the barrel on the ground though.)
While it's true that the 5HK j.LP/j.LK(1) j.MK(2) j.HK j.214MK renditions of the loop are best performed buffered and as soon as possible, there are variations: 5HK j.MP(3) j.HP(3) [land] j.LK/j.LP j.MK j.HK j.214MK requires pauses before the j.MP and before j.LX, since it connects with the opponent falling and you want to give some time for that. Also, j.LP places Double higher than j.LK, so you can use it over j.LK in situations where, say, you catch them in the air and j.LK will cause the loop to fail.
 
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Has Mike ever explained why you can't pushblock bandwagon until the last hit? Is it some system artifact (e.g. the hits are too close together and there are no frames you can input the pushblock) or is it a specific decision he made?
 
I don't play Double, but her new color palette is just awesome. I thank whoever requested it.
 
Whenever anyone uses the car super with the new double color it should be called "pride parade", at least that's what i'm going to call it.
 
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