Double general discussion!

Discussion in 'Double' started by Domo, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Dolfy

    Dolfy not into old men Events Mod

    It's one of those assists that is "cool in combos but not that useful in neutral." It would probably catch people off guard if you used it kinda like how people use french twist and cremation assists. Cilia slide in this case trades being super fast/long range in exchange for not doubling as a lockdown and (usually) using up your otg.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  2. pcamble91

    pcamble91 The new guy

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    PSN:
    pcamble91
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Any tips on fighting BB with double i find the matchup kinda weird
     
  3. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

    Location:
    West Canada
    Steam:
    Skarmand
    PSN:
    Skarmand
    Robo Fortune
    Double
    Use Cilia slide to convert off Diamond Dynamo and Diamond Drop.
     
    Hilary likes this.
  4. LuxadeSwag

    LuxadeSwag play cilia slide sometimes

    Steam:
    Lux
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    1st off, Do you have Double combos for BB?
     
  5. pcamble91

    pcamble91 The new guy

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    PSN:
    pcamble91
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    its not the combos i have problems with its how you go about approaching BB
     
  6. LuxadeSwag

    LuxadeSwag play cilia slide sometimes

    Steam:
    Lux
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Well, It's best to be patient and wait while doing Lugers and j.HKs. If they're doing Giant Steps and Brass, It's best to use j.HP catiously. If they're doing A-Train, Just Flesh Step/Foward Dash and do c.LK.
     
  7. Dolfy

    Dolfy not into old men Events Mod

    I think Double vs BB is a harder matchup after playing it about 1000 times. I do a lot of empty jumps to bait out a trains and try to be conservative with my lugers since brass powers right through it and it's not particularly difficult to parry.

    A riskier but often effective option is to fish for a Cilia Slide. It breaks armor and thanks to monster you can get a lot off of it in beta, so try that some. My midrange pressure game usually consists of c.hp > m luger poking and dash in c.lk. I try to be careful about j.hp because it feels like beat extend always manages to bite me, although i may be just a bit off in my spacing. Use instant j.lp and all that for mixups.

    As for combos I usually just do flesh step loops or in beta TK fridge route.
     
    pcamble91 likes this.
  8. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    You can block during your forward dash if you hold backwards. This is a good way to approach turtle BBs that just want to runaway and try to make you guess between A-train or brass or giant step. This is even better if you use button dash>neutral>back, since you dont waste valuable frames being vulnerable during a forward forward input.
     
  9. pcamble91

    pcamble91 The new guy

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    PSN:
    pcamble91
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    i think im going to try the slide more often i tend to forget its even a move she has lol
     
  10. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Is Catheads good enough to have part of a team built around it? I'm thinking of playing Fortune/Double/BigBand and part of the general gameplan of the team was that Fortune builds meter and when I get Double in (still thinking about how that could work since doing DHC's would negate the idea of using catheads a lot) I use lots of Catheads based mixups (kind of like Strider/Doom MVC2 lockdown, except nowhere near as scary I suppose). Does Catheads costing 2 meters still make that strategy worth it?
     
  11. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Double
    Fukua
    Cerebella
    Nope.
     
    zarkingphoton likes this.
  12. cloudKing211

    cloudKing211 King of White Puffs

    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    Steam:
    akiraxion
    PSN:
    cloudKing211
    Valentine
    Unknown
    Double
    Wouldn't the current best chip team without peacock be Robo/Double/Eliza (H laser, Hk Bomber, Hk Twirl). To get the chip setup you can do s.hp on block to level 1 super - catheads, then just call hk twirl while chipping with catheads.
     
  13. pcamble91

    pcamble91 The new guy

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    PSN:
    pcamble91
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    twirl does more chip than butcher blade?
     
  14. cloudKing211

    cloudKing211 King of White Puffs

    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    Steam:
    akiraxion
    PSN:
    cloudKing211
    Valentine
    Unknown
    Double
    Costs no meter, does crap tons of chip. Butchers blade has armor, but didn't you want more catheads?
     
  15. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Woofly sometimes plays Squigly/Liza/Soul with HK Spiral assist on Liza.
    I don't know much about Robo but she clearly is too unfinished to deal a lot of chip.. Beam is only going to carry you so far.
    Parasoul doesn't add much here chipwise, so perhaps Squigly/Double/Liza instead? That would make the team overall worse, though.

    Anyhow he will land a hit and get you into the corner and then cycle Spiral assist with Arpeggio and SBO + occasional Tremolo thrown in and it's kind of a mess to get out of that
     
  16. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    Cilia slide against BB wears itself out pretty quickly, but it's good to remember it as an option. The biggest issue with it is that BB's high risk/reward options don't really favor Double at any point if she fucks up her own commitments. I generally still commit to lugers if I have the meter to convert luger car > gregor as he's not getting out of it if he's committed to brass already, but before I have those meters it's really just waiting for him to fuck up his fullscreen guesses or interrupting his offense with assist calls, reversals, and pbgcs.

    Luger Car > DHC being important to have at fullscreen is also why I'd recommend just using fleshstep route confirms and saving meter as opposed to slide > monster.

    As for baiting Beat Extends, relatively little harm in empty jumping forward unless they're really committing to wakeup A-Train on a read. If he does bite with BE, you can falling jLK jMK consistently after blocking the beat extend, and in the worst case scenario where you somehow don't get the hit, he's gotta guess on jLK jMK(2) or jLK jMK(1) fast fall > low/throw/block.

    If he has a good horizontal assist and doesn't commit to things much, yeah getting in is obnoxious and you're usually doing it on his terms. When you do get in though, he is super susceptible to instant overheads and reversal baits, and people often forget how nasty/prolonged Double's pressure can be with her air normals.
     
    Dolfy likes this.
  17. pcamble91

    pcamble91 The new guy

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    PSN:
    pcamble91
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    when they have an assist to back them up i find myself counter calling them and baiting them to beat on my assist its like BB players have to beat down the assist thats another way of opening them up i guess
     
  18. LugerSpamDouble

    LugerSpamDouble PhD in Mashing from the University of Big Band

    Location:
    Europe, Lithuania
    Double
    Big Band
    Parasoul
    What is the best way to engage in an air-to-air fight?
    I use J.Hp almost everytime an enemy is in the air, but I am curious if J.mp or maybe even J.lk would be better in some situations. What would those situations be?
     
  19. LuxadeSwag

    LuxadeSwag play cilia slide sometimes

    Steam:
    Lux
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    j.MP is the like the 3rd option to use. j.HK is like the alternative and it's better the j.HP in situations.
     
  20. Krackatoa

    Krackatoa Painwizard

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Painwheel
    Beowulf
    Double
    Use j.MP and j.LP when you're preemptively beating someone elses air option. j.HP should be used when you think someone is going to stay on the ground.
     
    LugerSpamDouble and keninblack like this.
  21. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Fukua
    This for sure, J.HP is also a good option if you say to yourself "he's gonna jump that upbacking fuck" and if you time it right it should keep them blocking.
     
  22. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    jMP is really nice to run away with and fall on top of an approaching character.

    jLP is nice for raw startup speed in a lot of scenarios.

    jLK can be cool for the disjointed box, but the angle kinda requires you to already be in the air above them, moving away from them, etc.

    If you're losing air to airs against things like Squigly jLK, Para jLP, or Fukua jLP, stay on the ground and H-Luger > Pray
     
    LugerSpamDouble likes this.
  23. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    How to use doubles jump attacks... A small guide:


    "Jhp" use in most situations as it is good as an air to air because of its combination of range and disjointed hitbox and speed. Can also be used as a pushblock bait by cancelling the move early, into a jhk.


    "Jhk" use it as a method of controlling space while jumping backwards and as a makeshift rushdown tool when double has the opponent cornered because it can be tricky to pushblock correctly.


    "Jmp" use when the spacing is to close to use jhp and the jhp would have lost to faster attacks.

    "Jmk" use as a movement attack to momentarily suspend double in the air above grounded opponents and as a ranged alternative to jhp that also has high priority when it is fully extended.


    "Jlp" use as a crossup when doing up close double jump mixups, use as a fast attack to try and beat other aerial light attacks to the punch, use as a crossup when the ranging on a dash jump is wrong or when someone wants to dash under your double, good to use when double is being pressured via an aerial reset of the dash under variety and other similar circumstances.


    "Jlk" good as a neutral jump attack on the way down to pressure a grounded opponent, the best attack to use after a dash jmk is wiffed, because of its speed plus 3 hits, plus range plus downward angle to pressure grounded opponents.... When compared to doubles other air attacks from the same situation.



    You can easily just use doubles jhp in 95% of situations and jmp in all the rest, but that makes your double predictable because of the need to always use the correct timing for jhp when at a close range (early) or having to always start attacks from a bit further out.

    It is fundamentally sound to play that way, but ultimately predictable which is a major downfall. Spicing up your offense with jmk to change up spacing and landing timings, as well as jhk for pressure, will make your double more all around and harder to defend against in an outside the box way.
     
  24. Barkynobiteme

    Barkynobiteme JESS HELP

    Steam:
    pet
    Peacock
    Filia
    Eliza
    Anybody that still plays this character have any advice on fighting fukua. Seems to be the only MU i cant for the life of me figure out. If I try to lame her out with spacing, shadows screw me over. If i try to bum rush her I lose to her better normals. Sometimes it feels like shes just a better version of me. I'm in a rut here.
     
  25. ArkBat

    ArkBat Member

    Steam:
    ark_bat
    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    So I have a question regarding Double's assist options. I'm trying to build a team around Beowulf and I started messing with L and M bomber and I like how they work with him but I can't decide. Which Double assists do Double players tend to gravitate towards?
     
  26. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    It really really depends on your team comp. Really. L, M, and H bomber all have their places, slide has it's place too.
    Those are the most common AFAIK. I have seen luger and stuff. etc.

    For Beo? The way I play him? I would default to MBomber I guess, I'm used to the lockdown aspect and I like Beo/Lockdown, but L could work well for that too. I wouldn't use H.
    Slide is probably cool if you're creative. It's a low too.
    I dunno about any luger assists being useful for him.
     
  27. ArkBat

    ArkBat Member

    Steam:
    ark_bat
    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    M was the one that I was kind of feeling at first. It seems nice to support him from a range but can still give him some lockdown. Idk it just feels good with his range.
     
  28. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I ran into a problem last night I wasn't sure what to do about, was hoping some pro Double players have some tips. I kept having a problem against Fukua where after my Beat Extend assist was blocked I would go to check with c.LK, but Fukua would do instant j.HK and hit both characters. I know I'm at frame advantage there but I can't stop Fukua from jumping forward and doing j.HK with my c.LK. c.HP also did not work. I labbed it and there's some stuff that works, but I didn't find anything that seemed like a good option if Fukua just stays there and blocks (like, I don't want to whiff an air grab right in front of her or anything like that). Anyone got any advice?
     
  29. cloudKing211

    cloudKing211 King of White Puffs

    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    Steam:
    akiraxion
    PSN:
    cloudKing211
    Valentine
    Unknown
    Double
    My advice would be continue pressure/bait reversal if the pushblock BE assist, and back dash m/h luger if they dont pushblock it. The hitstun is much less without a pushblock, so if they just block it, fukua can j.hk you unless you time it really well. Fukuas j.hk is pretty fast. so avoiding it after the be extend is blocked is solid option. backdash h luger after blocked BE with when you are near the point will beat fukua j.hk so that is an option, and if they just block then they block the h luger and have to hold the next mixup. Just be careful if they pb hluger and you will be fine

    Tldr, backdash h luger beats instant fukua j.hk after a blocked beat extend, will give you a mixup if they just down back and block the luger, and a slightly riskier mixup if they pushblock it.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  30. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Awesome! Thanks Cloud, I'll practice that.
     
  31. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I'm a liar btw I apparently did not test c.HP. It beats instant j.HK for free and gets you a ground bounce for an easy combo. That might be the best option after all.
     
    Pickles, gllt and hilaryyy like this.
  32. hilaryyy

    hilaryyy Active Member

    See if H-Gun/M-Gun steps back far enough so that Band catches the hurtbox with double out of the way. M-Gun on block in that scenario should be relatively safe even if they end up chicken blocking it, H-Gun on block if they didn't jump should be plus if it connects after the shot rebound.

    The "kara" step back on shot is really underrated, and on trades you get an OTG conversion.
     
    gllt likes this.
  33. Double Doll

    Double Doll "Monster nun fetish"

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198074234358/
    Double
    Double
    Double
    This is probably a stupid question but can someone explain why the green stuff didn't fill up after 2 barrels ?
     
  34. joshb911

    joshb911 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steam:
    joshb911
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    @Double Doll you have force counter hit on so you start with -50 undizzy try that without counter hit on.
     
  35. Double Doll

    Double Doll "Monster nun fetish"

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198074234358/
    Double
    Double
    Double
    Oh , ok , now i feel really dumb XD
     
  36. Riah

    Riah One man's trash...

    Steam:
    Riah
    Filia
    Painwheel
    Double
    Stupid Question: I notice that when Doubles players get a Titan Knuckle in the corner, they Flesh step twice, then do a J.Hk. Is there a specific timing thing that this is for?
     
  37. cloudKing211

    cloudKing211 King of White Puffs

    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    Steam:
    akiraxion
    PSN:
    cloudKing211
    Valentine
    Unknown
    Double
    It can be used to set up an ambiguous overhead low throw, and since you can meaty j.hk and just block, its a setup that you use to condition the opponent not to mash
     
    CrunchyFrog and Riah like this.
  38. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    how do i get a otg-less combo from throw on robo fortune? everyone else seems rather easy to do except her due to 4chan like hitboxes but heavier.
     
  39. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    flesh step c.lk but its really tight. it sucks. but i am curious you say "everyone else seems rather easy" but there are like 3-4 chars i can't get an otg-less combo off of throw on so you might already have better methods
     

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