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Painwheel Fighting Painwheel?

LugerSpamDouble

LugerSpamDouble

PhD in Mashing from the University of Big Band
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Double Big Band Parasoul
Okay, so I tried out quick match (Because, why not? I love learning from my mistakes.), and then I got 3 painwheel players in a row. Result? I was combo'd so hard I couldn't even land a LP or LK even if my life depended on it.
How can some below average player like me beat a Godlike or heck, even an average painwheel? Like, as soon as the match starts I either get annihilated real hard or chipped away real hard until I get cornered and destroyed.
 
Please be more specific on what are your problems with the match. All you said is that you got touched and reseted to death, and any character can do that. In that case, learn what are the defensive options of your characters, when to use then, understand resets and how to block/pushblock.
 
Some pointers:

PW is a lot less scary at neutral. She's got some good tools, but her approach is pretty predictable.

In combo, she's a hell of a lot scarier. Really, you aren't going to have much of a chance if you are a new player. PW's mix-ups are horrifying. That said, up-back is a decent go-to (you'll lose to lows, but most PWs are reseting high). Learn when common throw resets are and mash throw during those windows. Learn common reset points and mash reversals/supers during that period. A lot of it is just playing though, and you'll get it eventually.

Also, personal note: mashed super is silly strong in this game. It can be baited and punished, but I think you are better served learning when not to mash as opposed to learning when to mash.

Not sure how long you've been playing or how good you are, so that might help us help you.
 
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Daemyx said:
Please be more specific on what are your problems with the match. All you said is that you got touched and reseted to death, and any character can do that. In that case, learn what are the defensive options of your characters, when to use then, understand resets and how to block/pushblock.
Well, from what I know is that she basically abused her flight cancel ability, now I'm not 100% sure how that works but I'm guessing that helped her pressure me with low strings and overheads, so I couldn't really do much cause of that flight cancelling, if I were to say so.
 
This question is really dependent on your existing skill - if you're good at the technical aspects then there are people who can talk frame data with you all day, but if you're new to the game (and there's no shame in it) then you probably don't want something that deep.

My solid piece of advice, based on my experience of playing as Painwheel, is that if you can keep her away she can't do crap. Virtually all her moves are dependent on being close-up. If you have a DP assist you can knock her back when she gets close, and that's just one way of doing it.
 
Man-In-Crowd-4 said:
This question is really dependent on your existing skill - if you're good at the technical aspects then there are people who can talk frame data with you all day, but if you're new to the game (and there's no shame in it) then you probably don't want something that deep.

My solid piece of advice, based on my experience of playing as Painwheel, is that if you can keep her away she can't do crap. Virtually all her moves are dependent on being close-up. If you have a DP assist you can knock her back when she gets close, and that's just one way of doing it.
So what you're telling me is that I should always pressure her from a distance (Napalm shots, luger replica, peacock etc.), if she starts getting close I need to make a distance between her and only engage her up-close if I have her stunned or I am guaranteed to combo her, and as soon as I finish combo'ing her I make a distance between her again?
 
practice pushblocking against her
 
I wouldn't say that's the one-size-fits-all solution, because fighting games don't work like that, but I personally find Painwheel can't do much when she's at a range. It may depend on the opponent. If you can just stop her from getting right on top of you all the time then you don't have to do full Peacock-zoning, just far enough away that she can't start any scary combos. Seconded what that guy above said - if you can crack pushblocking, that'll help.
I dunno how practical this is in real terms, but that's my two shillings.
 
Man-In-Crowd-4 said:
I wouldn't say that's the one-size-fits-all solution, because fighting games don't work like that, but I personally find Painwheel can't do much when she's at a range. It may depend on the opponent. If you can just stop her from getting right on top of you all the time then you don't have to do full Peacock-zoning, just far enough away that she can't start any scary combos. Seconded what that guy above said - if you can crack pushblocking, that'll help.
I dunno how practical this is in real terms, but that's my two shillings.
Alright, thanks for your advice. I'll start cranking up the pushblocking practice and start experimenting more against Painwheel players.
Also, are there any specific characters that can punish Painwheel? Like I used to hear that zoning characters can annoy painwheel, I'm guessing Parasoul is part of that because of her j.HP and such?
 
Well there's Peacock, obviously. Parasoul is probably also a pretty good shout, yes, and I imagine between drills, fireballs and j.HK Fukua could probably cause from frustration. Maybe Squigly, with judicious specials use? I dunno. Try it.
 
Zoning definitely sucks for painwheel, Parasoul's j.HP is great for the obvious reasons, but against Painwheel it's maybe better to use j.HK because it's multi-hit and will rip through her armor.

As a few people said above, in general it's hard to answer because it really depends on what the painwheel player is doing and what exactly you're having trouble with. I would recommend the next time you face a painwheel, write down 1-3 things that gave you the most trouble, and then start there, or if you have any way to record your gameplay that would be the best.
 
Oh one more thing, sorry for the double post, majority of painwheel's normals are designed to be best used when painwheel is above or on equal level with the opponent. So do your best to stay above painwheel and don't let her be above you. Easier said than done, but something to keep in mind.
 
Ok so what I have found for fighting against painwheel.
Valentine
*Use s.hk to stop her from jumping in at you
*Use j.mp to stop her armored air moves
*Jump back sometimes and use j.hk to stuff her approach
*Air grab when you see an opening
Parasol
*Use cr.hp as an anti air to stuff her jump ins
*Use j.hp to knock her out of the sky
*Try m tear shot to condition your opponent to not fly a lot
*When you can j.hk is quite good at dealing with armor if you can get at the right height
*I would not use pillar very often because it can easily be baited
*Lastly cr.mp works well at breaking her ground normal armor
Double
*j.mp and j.hp are your best tools against Painwheel's jump normals
*H. Luger is good at knocking PW out of the sky
*Double really does not have a good multi hitting ground normal so utilize j.hp to break her armor
General
*You want to keep PW off of you and stay out of the corner
*Several resets are not safe due to mashing air super
This is just what I have found works your welcome to comment on any of this if you would like :^)
also if you play another character that I know I could make some more suggestions if you would like
 
dMags said:
Zoning definitely sucks for painwheel, Parasoul's j.HP is great for the obvious reasons, but against Painwheel it's maybe better to use j.HK because it's multi-hit and will rip through her armor.

As a few people said above, in general it's hard to answer because it really depends on what the painwheel player is doing and what exactly you're having trouble with. I would recommend the next time you face a painwheel, write down 1-3 things that gave you the most trouble, and then start there, or if you have any way to record your gameplay that would be the best.
Alright, I didn't have any replays but I did found a Youtube video which basically shows the Painwheel combo's I'm struggling to deal with.
The combo I am struggling to deal with starts in 0:06 and ends in 0:20 The problem I have with this combo is if I don't block I'm basically stuck in that loop until she messes up or something, but if I do block then I'm basically stuck with her constantly chipping me away until I pushblock her away (Which I'm still trying to learn.)
 
unfortunately, that's sort of painwheel in a nutshell, and due to her ability to fly cancel she can reset you at pretty much any point in the combo.

Pushblocking will definitely help, it'll give you breathing room and hopefully the PW player will start getting predictable. Having a good reversal assist doesn't hurt either.

I'm not sure how much experience you have, but it might just be a matter of getting more practice and getting your ass beat until you pick up on the opponents habits. It sucks but it's all part of the learning process and something everybody goes through. I think the advice given by other people is pretty good so far. Keep at it, even if you go from "instantly getting hit and reset to death" to "blocked a few attempts, then got hit and reset to death", that's still progress.
 
dMags said:
unfortunately, that's sort of painwheel in a nutshell, and due to her ability to fly cancel she can reset you at pretty much any point in the combo.

Pushblocking will definitely help, it'll give you breathing room and hopefully the PW player will start getting predictable. Having a good reversal assist doesn't hurt either.

I'm not sure how much experience you have, but it might just be a matter of getting more practice and getting your ass beat until you pick up on the opponents habits. It sucks but it's all part of the learning process and something everybody goes through. I think the advice given by other people is pretty good so far. Keep at it, even if you go from "instantly getting hit and reset to death" to "blocked a few attempts, then got hit and reset to death", that's still progress.
Yeah, I started getting the hang of painwheel's pattern, Like I started to block more of the hits and get into rhythm with her, letting me pushblock her more. And I take defeat more as of a learning experience. Anyways, thanks for all the tips guys, I'll definatly take note for all the tips you've given me.
 
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LugerSpamDouble said:
Alright, I didn't have any replays but I did found a Youtube video which basically shows the Painwheel combo's I'm struggling to deal with.
The combo I am struggling to deal with starts in 0:06 and ends in 0:20 The problem I have with this combo is if I don't block I'm basically stuck in that loop until she messes up or something, but if I do block then I'm basically stuck with her constantly chipping me away until I pushblock her away (Which I'm still trying to learn.)

How is someone hitting you with an SDE combo
 
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Hilary said:
How is someone hitting you with an SDE combo
I'm relatively new so of course the most basic things are gonna mess me over!
Like, skullgirls is only my 2nd fighting game I've ever played. (I'm still enjoying it, though.)
 
LugerSpamDouble said:
I'm relatively new so of course the most basic things are gonna mess me over!
Like, skullgirls is only my 2nd fighting game I've ever played. (I'm still enjoying it, though.)

Pretty sure he was saying "how is he hitting you with a combo that's impossible to do in the most recent version of the game"

SDE combos didn't have undizzy limiting them.
 
Flotilla said:
Pretty sure he was saying "how is he hitting you with a combo that's impossible to do in the most recent version of the game"

SDE combos didn't have undizzy limiting them.
Oh, okay sorry for the misunderstanding I think I made the combo to be extended a bit TOO long. The combo she's hitting me with is 0:06 to 0:10 and she basically repeats it until she messes it up. Sometimes she goes C.HP but I still have serious hard time dealing with it most of the time.
 
Does she repeat the combo until you die or does it end eventually (like, with a super) ?

If she can loop until you die she is probably doing resets (ie. letting you recover and starting a new combo, hoping you won't block the new one). If that's the case (you can see the combo counter resetting back to 1), you have opportunities to block.

From what you told us it is hard to tell if your opponents are just going for long combos (against which you can't really do anything once you're hit except wait until it is over) or resets (against which you can try and block correctly when they try to reset).
 
Bombad said:
Does she repeat the combo until you die or does it end eventually (like, with a super) ?

If she can loop until you die she is probably doing resets (ie. letting you recover and starting a new combo, hoping you won't block the new one). If that's the case (you can see the combo counter resetting back to 1), you have opportunities to block.

From what you told us it is hard to tell if your opponents are just going for long combos (against which you can't really do anything once you're hit except wait until it is over) or resets (against which you can try and block correctly when they try to reset).
She repeats the combo until she hits the Infinite combo thing, then I of course get breathing space again. But seeing as how she instantly starts jumping on me again I'm almost back on the same position, I have seen painwheels reset me but then they, like again do the infinite combo thingy rinse and repeat.
 
Hilary said:
Yeah, from the looks of it Painwheel just resetted me over most of the time. I guess it's my fault for not grabbing the chance I have and counter-initiate. But thanks for the video, explaining me what combos are and resets!
 
Oh, if they are indeed resets, try to pay attention over what hit you (low, high or throw).

As Spencer said, most PW players reset high because PW can cancel any attack into fly > jumping attack and it is very easy to reset this way. Holding upback during combos may be a good idea because it escapes high and throw reset attempts. Of course, if you see that they mix up low and high reset, try to react to that. It's not easy because reset are one of PW's strengths, though.
 
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