Fortune Oki, Incoming Mixups andAnti-Reversal Setups

Discussion in 'Ms. Fortune' started by FuLLBLeeD, May 11, 2016.

  1. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
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    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I wanted to use this thread to talk about Fortune's oki, incoming mixups, anti-reversal setups, and in general anything related to S E T P L A Y. Fortune has many reliable (at least in my opinion) ways to land hard knockdowns. This thread is to discuss Fortune's (both head on and head off) options off of her knockdowns. In addition, this thread is for discussing Fortune's options on incoming.

    For the purposes of this discussion, let's just assume you're playing without an assist. This is a VS game, and obviously you're going to get better knockdown pressure and incoming when using an assist. Once we figure out what kind of setups this character can do by herself, we can factor in whatever assist we're using.

    Hard Knockdowns

    Fortune can land a hard knock down in a variety of situations:



    Cat Scratch Fever (head on) gives you a hard knockdown


    Two hit burst bait (works both head on and head off) that ends in j.HK. If your opponent DOESN'T burst it is still good for you because you get a hard knockdown. If your opponent has seen this setup before, they aren't going to burst because giving you a hard knockdown setup is better than giving you a counterhit combo. I just assume this is a hard knockdown setup, and if they actually do a burst that's just a bonus.

    This setup is good headless because it gives you ample time and positioning to knock the head on top of them somehow.

    Tiger Knee HK El Gato off of a launcher gives you a hard knockdown. This is the most difficult way to land a hard knockdown. I'm not a huge fan of this, because if you're headless, you really don't have enough time to position the head on top of them after you land on the ground (if you successfully do TK HK El Gato, you're pretty high in the air). I just prefer the second setup. However, this is an option you have.

    Oki

    These are taken directly from the compendium (thanks @CaioLugon ). Oki is something I'm lacking in in this game. These are just some examples that hopefully we can build off of.



    After H El Gato in the air and Cat Scratch Fever you get a sliding knockdown with plenty of time to run up and setup your opponent. Here some stuff you can do:



    - Dash up, block+assist/empty jump+assist - Old but Gold, can't go wrong with a bait in this game.

    - Dash up, c.lk/IAD j.hp/grab - Cheesy low/high/throw mix-up.

    - Dash up, jump over and call assist - Pretty easy to see but can be made effective by mixing it up with the next one. d

    - Dash up, jump over and call assist, air dash back - Fake cross-up.

    - Dash up, jump over, jumping normal (optional), air dash back j.hp/j.hk - Same but without assists.

    - Dash up, s.hk on the head, jump, j.hk/empty jump c.lk/empty jump grab - Depends on the position of the head but it's basically a reversal-proof version of the second one*.



    I'm looking for other setups you guys go for off of CSF hard knockdowns when there's no assist available. I know empty jump low is good and airdash whiff throw, block to bait a reversal as a sort of safe jump.



    I put an asterisk next to that lest setup because it brings me to my next point:

    Meaties

    Meaties are generally high risk, high reward in Skullgirls (and a lot of other games, but very much so this game). Forcing your opponent to block without an assist is incredibly risky. Most reversals lead to full combos, and the ones that don't do a ton of damage on their own. On top of that, any damage you take will be counterhit damage if they hit you out of a meaty c.LK or whatever. So you really need to be incredibly cautious when doing them.

    Here is the thing though, headless Fortune can do headbutt without really committing to anything. You can do headbutt on the opponent as an opponent rises and stay out of range to have enough time to block if they do anything.



    Something I've wanted to discuss with the community for a while is the idea of "safe meaties" with headless Fortune. Because of headbutt, she doesn't really have to take the same risks when doing knockdown pressure as other characters. This is similar to other games where you can force a character to block with some sort of projectile (like Laura in SF5). The mixup you go for AFTER that can be dealt with/reversaled, but for a precious moment you can just force the opponent to block out of a hard knockdown.

    This is kind of the dash up, s.HK on the head, jump j.HK/empty jump c.lk/empty jump grab setup accomplishes. It's a anti-reversal/setup safe jump effectively. But I think we can do better and effectively just come up with ways to setup meaty headbutt pressure into mixups off of the two hit burst bait setup.

    It's super easy midscreen, but in the corner you'll probably have to make them block the head by launching it with s.HK first. Bursts are unpunishable if you hit the head, so you would have to do the bait, wait until they are in hard knockdown and can't burst anymore, and then hit the head on top of them right before they rise.



    So what do you think fellow Fortune players? Does this seem like it could be good to you? I think we should experiment with it to see if there is something there. Headless is one of the only characters that can kind of apply pressure on hard knockdowns by herself that isn't super risky. Would love to hear other players' thoughts on this.



    Anti-reversal



    Fortune has a few anti reversal setups I feel work decently well. Most of the ones I've found are just out of the Skippy McYay guide. These are all resets, however they are not ambiguous (they are if you go for a different reset, but at that point it's not anti-reversal). The opponent only ever has to block them one way, but if done correctly they will stuff all of your opponents reversal options so that's good.

    These are all for headless since I spend the majority of my time playing her. If you have any for head on (or anti-reversal setups against characters not mentioned) I would love to hear them!

    Parasoul

    s.MK, c.HK (1 hit) xx LK Fiber, j.MP ADC j.MP will always either beat Pillar clean or let you land in time to block depending on your timing.

    Squiggly



    s.MK, c.HK (1 hit) xx LK Fiber, j.MP ADC j.LK

    I have to go back and test this, but, if I remember correctly:

    -beats Daisy pusher because you're in the air

    -Hits Squiggly before she can SBO

    -should beat level 3

    -Should beat DP

    I have to double check, but I remember writing down in my notes somewhere that that was a great setup against Squiggly

    Cerebella



    Nom, j.LP ADC backwards j.HK is an anti reversal setup that beats every option Cerebella has.

    s.MK, c.HK (1 hit) xx LK Fiber, j.MP ADC j.MP buffer nom will also beat every reversal option Cerebella has.



    Delaying nom is probably really great for anti-reversal setups. There is no reason it wouldn't work in other situations.



    Eliza



    Nom, j.LP ADC backwards j.HK allows you to block every reversal Eliza can do.



    Nom

    Not oki but you should probably always reset and do an anti-reversal setup off of nom because of scaling. This means you should approach nom hits in neutral like you would oki, basically. You can do j.LP at the opponent and do stuff like:

    j.LP ADC j.LP xx LK El Gato (crossup)

    j.LP, delay c.LK

    j.LP ADC backwards j.HK (anti reversal or hits high if your opponent just doesn't feel like blocking)
    There is also a way to do same side high but I don't remember it at the moment.



    Incoming Mixups

    This is something I want to experiment and test more with, but forcing the opponent to block basketball nonsense (jump up and continually hit head for new decap attacks) on incoming seems really good. They're either going to get hit and let you convert with s.HK xx LK Fiber, OR you'll be able to staircase them down enough to put them on the ground where you want them, and where throw, s.LP and c.LK become effective.

    You kind of need an assist to do this reliably. I use LP Beat Extend. Against characters without a strong air reversal, Fibering the head at them might be good enough.

    Head on: 50/50 s.HK is a good one because you just auto pilot into LP Rekka and you either get a combo or are safe. The Skullgirls classic is 50/50 launcher, but I'm starting not to like incomings that have you bet the farm on your mixup.



    Incoming mixups are an area of my game I'm lacking in, so if anyone has any ideas let me know!

    So that's everything I wanted to talk about. Please contribute to this thread with your own ideas, and feel free to double check anything I posted.
     
    Adwins and Triblue like this.
  2. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
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    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
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    This crosses up twice and the opponent has to reversal to the opposite side




    And for incoming I like to do iad j.hk with copter, but any assist that will prevent the opponent from touching the ground should work the same.




    Also, it's actually spelled 'Squigly', with a single g.
     
  3. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
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    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    New tech courtesy of @Natezer



    Anti-reversal/hard knockdown/oki setup in the corner. Looks like it beats pillar. I wonder if it beats other reversals (probably not level 3s like Eliza and Fortune's but that's to be expected).
     
    Natezer likes this.
  4. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
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    @PME I know you play headless dog come post in this thread
     
  5. PME

    PME R.I.P. Airdash Cancels

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    I keep forgetting it exists, but now that I posted I'll get alerts (hopefully)
     
  6. PME

    PME R.I.P. Airdash Cancels

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    I'll make a video and post it later today (still haven't slept)

    After CSF in the corner, delay the head toss to avoid hitting them back up (some people like to just do the air version to avoid timing it). Then, c.LP before they stand up to hit the head at them for a meaty setup that's anti-any reversal minus probably Showstopper.

    I prefer this over Headbutt because I don't want my head to go into cooldown.

    Sleep now, tech later
     
  7. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

    Location:
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    Robo Fortune
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    5MP > delayed nom

    In a sandwich it destroys whatever band tries and even manages to beat some other character's reversals and if they do nothing they are forced to block nom
    if timed correctly they can't call their assist and if you have a good lockdown assist that helps too.

    It's block or get nommed pretty much.

    I dunno if that helps.
     
    FuLLBLeeD likes this.
  8. dorne

    dorne New Member

    Steam:
    Dorne
    Ms. Fortune
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    There has been some instances when you are juggling the enemy on the side with the head off that you can pull off an el gato h to knock down. You need a precise window the head hits the enemy body in the air though.
     
  9. PME

    PME R.I.P. Airdash Cancels

    Location:
    New Jersey
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    Ms. Fortune
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    Robo Fortune
    In the corner with head off
    The sequence [s.HK > H Fiber Upper > K Cancel > j.MK > H El Gato] accomplishes this, for one
     
  10. Natezer

    Natezer Get Innocuous!

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    FuLLBLeeD likes this.
  11. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Steam:
    fullbleed
    PSN:
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    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    s.MK on hit, delayed nom is pretty good for beating mashing/delayed safe DHC setups.

    I really wish Fortune had better burst baits against big characters.

    ground string, headbutt, IAD j.LK, j.MP, headbutt, jump back j.LK seems like your best option.

    If they don't burst I think you can airdash back in with j.LK, j.MK with the right timing but it's a read, if you do it too soon and they DO burst you'll be knocked away.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016

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