From scrub to not scrub in dunno when

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by Yomabuddy, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Looks like a good place to pen down my thoughts on this game so here goes nothing.

    I live in Wellington, New Zealand. I main Tekken (and make some content for it on occasion that some people sometimes like), play KOF13 and GGXrd on the side (and am bad at all of them) and I like Skullgirls because it's a vs game that I wanted to try, plus unlike the more popular vs game it's more of a two player game so why not play it.

    Old team theory stuff - mostly irrelevant (open)
    Currently I'm looking to play Peacock/Filia/BigBand with George's Day Out (LK Bomb)/H Updo/H Brass Knuckles as assists:

    1) Not a lot of thought into LK Bomb as Peacock's assist, probably going to change this to something more optimal for my other two characters once I find uses for it. Mostly looking at s.HP for this as it's a projectile and good for lock down and good to try and convert off Filia c.MP c.HK call assist cross under stuff, but I don't know how Big Band would use this assist.
    2) H Updo's pretty good for controlling the air space right ahead of Peacock, is pretty fast and is an invincible assist. Looks like it'll be pretty good for Peacock's defense.
    3) H Brass Knuckles has two hits of armor and reaches almost full screen so it's a pretty good complement to Peacock's range game. Also it sort of clears up Filia's IAD trajectory so it looks like calling it and trying to get in using this might be pretty useful.

    I've currently not played anyone online or offline (only a few sets against my kid brother who doesn't know how to play SG at all, but is sort of trying using the tutorial but loses all the time) so all this assist picking is theory talk from me. I don't know of much competition in my area or online that is close to me, so if there's people around me that play this game frequently then I'd be extremely grateful to play them.

    Currently I just spend time in training mode getting my combos muscle memory (Peacock and Filia combos are almost muscle memory, Big Band combos aren't) and learning about better combos/resets that I can steal because I have no creative capabilities whatsoever. Sometimes I try to record my own mixups and try to defend against them, but I am bad at recording mixups properly for some reason (it'll take me an hour to record one mini combo with two reset points in them and by that time I'll find something else to do instead because trying to learn a 2 player game alone isn't very fun).

    My current theory game plans with my three characters are:

    1) Peacock is obvious - to keep them out with lots of items and build meter. Using this meter I can use Argus DHC Gregor to get Filia in so she can do her thing. I don't want to use resets with her (but knowing them would be useful - too bad I don't know any useful ones from my basic combo) but only build meter from combos, zone my opponent and build meter for Argus DHC Gregor.
    I will zone people using s.HP XX HK Bomb XX LK bomb to get bombs out, and M SoID, H SoID and H Bang... dunno how. I need more experience with these tools and this strategy to figure out how these tools work.

    2) Filia ideally gets in from Argus DHC Gregor, and once she gets in she basically works like Zero in Marvel 3 - don't let the opponent play at all. Whether I should do this using short combos and resets or long combos into green burst vs throw mixup is probably something that is up to the combo starter I land (I don't have an optimal reset or green burst based combo from Peacock combo -> Argus DHC Gregor, only a damage optimal combo and even then it's probably not optimal) as well as how much health they have and how much meter I have. Her game plan probably requires way more training mode grinding on my part to find optimal combos for damage and resets and optimal damage from said resets. As long as I'll have like no people to play against, the best I can do is spend lots of time in training mode finding the best combos I can.

    3) Big Band I have no idea how to play at all. Perhaps like MVC3 Sentinel, pressuring people from far? I need to watch a lot more match videos to understand how this character works.

    Things I need to do in training mode:

    Peacock:
    1) Find optimal Peacock combos that build a lot of meter.
    2) Find optimal Argus DHC Gregor routes.

    Filia:
    1) Find optimal heavy reset combos from different conversions (key conversions: c.LK, ground throw, Peacock Argus DHC Gregor, low air throw, high air throw, burst baits)
    2) Find optimal heavy damage combos from above conversions at different undizzy values (usually related to the resets I do land, so I know that if I land eg reset I can finish that character off)
    3) Work on my wavedash and backwards wavedash.

    Big Band:
    1) Practice an optimal damage bread and butter from c.LK, ground throw and air throw.

    I guess I can also post my combos and stuff as personal notes here if it's allowed. Anyway, just so I don't forget:

    Peacock Argus DHC Gregor conversion:
    Peacock s.LP s.MP s.MK
    j.MP j.HP adc j.MP
    MP XX Argus Agony DHC Gregor Samson
    Filia dash s.HP
    j.HK adc j.LP j.MP
    c.LP c.MP
    TK H Airball
    s.LK s.MP s.MK c.HP XX H Hairball (XX Fenrir)

    Peacock throw
    LK Bomb XX Argus Agony DHC Gregor Samson
    (need to fill this)

    New team theory stuff - kinda relevant? (open)
    My current team is Filia/BB, with H Hairball and L Extend assist.

    Filia is usually my starter in most situations because my current BB neutral and mixup knowledge is still a but lacking so I try to get them with Filia and not let them get back to neutral. H Hairball is pretty good as it helps make A Train and Brass Knuckles safe and also on hit it pushes them far out where I have the advantage.
    BB I sometimes start with because I want to be able to handle neutral if someone gets my Filia and snaps her out to try and get rid of BB for his assist - L Extend is a good assist as a general space control thing and getting rid of it would be very useful for the opponent so just in case people do that to me, I want my BB to be able to handle himself on mixups and return to neutral where hopefully I get a hit back and DHC to Filia out.

    A weakness in this team is that I have no safe DHC's so mashing super isn't really effective so I need to be able to block and see where there are true gaps for me to reversal out or hunt for PBGC spots with both of my characters (which might be more useful overall than mashing super then going for safe DHC and hoping for the best). I currently have no plans of incorporating a third character into the mix so I have the option because I want to improve my neutral game and overall knowledge and use of the system mechanics, which is universal knowledge, before I add a third character into my team and increase my workload.

    I do need to look for undizzy economical ways to DHC from BB to Filia because I find Filia's mixups and resets way more interesting and varied than BB's so I want to put the opponent in those situations more often, plus having Filia doing the mixups means I have a very damaging DHC if I want the option in Super Sonic Jazz. However, it is not something I'm looking to prioritise because being equally as good with both of my characters is more important to me right now, and when I do feel like I need the option to get Filia doing Filia things at low undizzy cost I'll research those options.

    Things I need to improve upon (open)

    - Pushblocking and PBGC'ing, especially vs assist pressure
    - Not autopiloting
    - Improving neutral against different styles of play - having a stronger defense vs rushdown players and having a stronger way to open turtles up
    - Not running into assists in the neutral game

    I apologise if this isn't actually supposed to be here or if reading all my theory fighting made you sick. Thanks in advance for any advice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
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  2. joshb911

    joshb911 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steam:
    joshb911
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
  3. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  4. Mao

    Mao Buttons 'R Fun

    Location:
    Auckland, NZ
    Steam:
    Mao
    PSN:
    sussex4lyf
    Peacock
    Double
    Big Band
    Hey I live in Auckland and also main peacock we should play
     
  5. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Cheers man, I added you as a friend on Steam. Let me know when you're available to play!

    I'm already a member of the group. I guess I'll introduce myself in the group chat as well. Thanks!
     
    ClarenceMage likes this.
  6. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    I'm in the middle of moving so my play schedule is really erratic right now, but i'll get back to you when I can
     
  7. Vadsamoht

    Vadsamoht Well-Known Member Administrator

    Steam:
    Vadsamoht
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
    Yeah, definitely drop by the Steam chat sometime - there's usually a bunch of us idling there and most of us organize matches through there instead of quickmatch, etc. Also don't feel that you need to be a good player to join - most of us use it as a social group so there's no pressure to know the game inside out or anything.
     
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  8. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I like HK Bomb as an assist for Peacock, since it synergizes really well with Big Band's rush punches. If you call Peacock just before the punch, it will either make contact right after the punch is blocked (giving you better frames on block) or if the punch hits the plane will whiff completely (which you want; a lot of other assists that can be used in this way will hit in this situation, messing up your hard knockdown from the punch). Also since it comes from the air you don't risk them getting over the punch and whiff punishing it. Dunno if it would be useful for Filia but I really like that assist for Big Band.

    I mostly stick to Big Band's gigantic safe pokes like Cymbals, L Brass, c.HP, and c.HK (in roughly that order). There's a few frame traps you can do with these pokes like low to ground Cymbals followed by L Brass, or c.HP wait L Brass, or L Brass wait L Beat Extend. Ideally the frame traps make people scared to push buttons and you use that hesitation to go in with j.LK. If people are trying to zone you out, you can get in with H Brass or H Giant Step.
     
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  9. Mr Peck

    Mr Peck that UK Peacock player Lab Zero

    Location:
    Guildford, UK
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    It's one of my favourite assists to use with Filia, period. It does a great job of covering the air and helping her approach people.
     
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  10. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So after playing a lot of games and getting bodied a lot, I don't think I should play a trio Peacock/Filia/BB because my Peacock gets bodied too hard and she's not a character I'm looking to main (my team was supposed to be more Filia centric), so I cut her out and for the meanwhile am playing Filia/BB, with H Hairball/L Extend assist. My Filia and BB neutral is still really bad, but I don't think this problem is something I'll cure in like 50 games. My defense is still really bad, partially due to not knowing how other characters' mixup works and partially due to not pushblocking and not using Push Block Absolute Guard and PBGC. I've still got a LOT of ways to go.

    Double also looks like a good assist character for Filia. M Hornet Bomber looks good for Filia neutral and lockdown, Catheads is a safe (?) DHC but I dunno if it's a good use of meter if it isn't safe or if it is punishable by retaliation supers and she just looks really interesting as a character. I dunno, maybe I'll try playing both Filia/BB and Filia/Double and see which one I do better with.

    Then again, L Extend is 2 gud so...
     
  11. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Why not Filia/Band/Double in the long run? I sometimes play that team and it works well + is really fun.
     
  12. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Try bella if you're looking for a new character, she goes really well in every team.




    I'm actually just trying to find an excuse to compliment your avatar again...


    it's pretty great
     
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  13. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So I really need to write down what I need to fix immediately from having played quite a lot of matches.

    - STOP. RUNNING. INTO. ASSISTS. ALL. THE. TIME. It is probably my lack of experience with assist based games but I seem to really like getting hit by BB L Extend and Double M Bomber assists a lot, which is most likely due to my really really obvious approaches with IAD j.HP with Filia, which is probably caused by panicking and not really having a clue on how people are thinking during the neutral game. In any case, I really need to stop getting hit by assists. How I'm going to fix this I have no clue - being patient and finding ways to beat assists with/without counter calling perhaps.

    - Use my assists more wisely. Most of the time my assist calls are out of panic because I don't know how to defend once I start blocking and then they get hit and then BB dies and I don't have a panic button and I want to cry. I need to find ways to create openings during pressure using pushblock and using assists a little more smartly. Also I need to practice my conversions off of L Extend if I do call something like an assist or a bad jump in. For some reason I like to OTG c.LK Updo instead of c.LK s.HP, and even if I do get the launch I'm bad with the followup combo. Need to practice converting off that a lot more.

    Mostly my lack of neutral and my bad defense is what's getting me rekt the most. Though if I do get a hit I'm not the best at converting it to offensive momentum but that's not my main concern at the moment.

    In sort of related news, I like Fortune (always found puppet characters really interesting) and I want to play her. Dunno if I really want to play her on a team though since she's her own team (the meme lives :PUN:) plus I feel like I could play headless Fortune better if I don't have her on a team. Regardless I'll have to play her to really understand that, and whether I should play her on my team or play her solo in the end. As far as teams go I think I have two choices:
    - Filia/BB/Fortune: My original idea. Filia really likes BB assist but Fortune assist isn't really necessary for her (which is great because Fortune's my anchor so I want her as healthy as possible). As soon as I get a super I can DHC to SSJ for adding like 2-2.5k at the end of every combo and tag out to another character and keep BB at second and play around with that. The problem with this is that if someone kills my point then I've gotta get BB out to make my gameplan work again, which is pretty hard. Overall kinda meh.
    - Fortune/Filia/BB: ClarenceMage suggested this to me instead of my original order and I feel like this is the better order to this team too. Fenrir doesn't do a lot less damage than SSJ (in fact about 70 less really), plus Fortune would benefit from the H Hairball assist, and Filia would also be able to use L Extend if Fortune dies. Also if Fortune gets going IMO she's got better setups especially with headless, but that's something I'll have to figure out by playing and doing more and more research.

    I've got a lot of homework to do for this game.
     
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  14. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Your next step is to actually come into chat and ask for more games, haven't even seen you there for like, days.

    EDIT: Oh, also fix @Chairman Mao 's internet
     
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  15. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    After having played a bit, in retrospect and without trying to sugar coat anything for myself (quite difficult for me to do this since I have very high self expectations and very low self esteem as far as fighting games are concerned), I think I've improved a little bit. I don't run into assists as often (though that certainly is an issue I want to learn how to deal with) and I'm trying to clear the autopilot neutral in my head. More focused on Filia and BB than trying to play another character and make a trio or anything of the nature, plus the more I play him the more potential he seems to have as a pseudo defensive style character (as defensive as you can in this game anyway). I still wouldn't say I'm good (far from it anyway) but it's nice to see what mistakes that I used to make that I don't make as much. Yay improvement. (read somewhere that if you accept the fact that you're getting better it helps you get even better, plus everything on the internet is correct so why not)

    It'd still be great if I didn't eat every L Extend assist though and drop every momentum shift in my favour and not sometimes just completely faze out of the match and autopilot but hey.
     
  16. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Your Fillia needs dirtier resets man.

    Also you are getting better at this, but you still corner yourself quite a bit. I'm the worst person to be saying this but you need to stand your ground more, especially when you have the assist advantage like you against me.
     
  17. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I'm afraid of getting BB and Filia both hit though so I try to control when I call L Extend (I still need to study what times would be good and how recognise true gaps from fake bait points), but you're right, I need to not back up all the time. I suppose that'll come from more play and more confidence, since I mostly back away out of fear.
     
  18. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So I heard that there's a zoning character in this game that is actually very good and not a lot of people play her. I think I can start trying to put Peacock back onto my original trio (especially since someone said that that team is probably really really really good but dunno who said that @ClarenceMage hi)

    My lack of knowledge as far as Peacock goes is actually extremely disappointing as far as trying to pick her up is concerned but I'm sure I can fix that in a night's worth of reading and several nights' worth of watching match videos.

    I'm probably going to play Peacock/BB alongside Filia/BB because:
    1. My BB neutral still needs work.
    2. I'm unsure of just sticking all three characters onto a team and expecting equal amounts of growth out of my characters.

    Then again if I do play all three characters on a team I can figure out what assists would work in what situations, but eh dunno. Maybe try all three teams every day or something?

    Current Peacock/Filia/BB theory - probably wrong and irrelevant (open)

    Peacock point, Filia second, BB third. I have absolutely no doubts that this is how the team should be set up. Argus DHC Gregor is great especially for midscreen zoning confirms since I don't use up undizzy so muy me gusta. Plus Filia gets to benefit from Fenrir DHC SSJ, which is again a very damaging DHC that would be useful to guarantee kills. The problem with this order is that Filia doesn't have a safe DHC, so if someone snaps in BB to get rid of L Extend (and I expect this to become more popular as I git gud and the game evolves) I don't have a way to safely mash out and get BB outta there for two bars cough cough SSJ DHC Hatred Install cough cough, but eh, such is life.

    As for assists:

    1. Peacock I'm divided on. On one hand s.HP is a good lockdown assist that is useful when Filia is up close and doing her thing, it's a projectile that scoots along the ground well, and it helps make BB DP and dropkicks safe.
    However on the other hand aerial George covers the mid-top of the screen decently well so Filia can wavedash in to do her thing (thanks Mr Peck up top), and it makes rush punches safe while still retaining the sliding knockdown (which is something I have come to realise is a decently big deal, thanks mcpeanuts up top).
    EDIT: I'm sticking with air George. The benefit of the lockdown of s.HP is rather limited since I do have L Extend as a pseudo lockdown assist - mostly for the fact that when it's out, people don't usually want to hit buttons - and air George is good for both of my characters whereas s.HP only really benefited Filia.

    2. Filia I'm also divided on. On one hand H Hairball is great for making rush punches safe, but I don't know how effective it is for Peacock since it has no invincibility at all and is thus vulnerable to counter calls especially from mid range (then again I can probably cover it somehow using item drops maybe - just thought this up, need to test if this is valid or not). Plus it being a multi hit assist may or may not be useful against Peacock/BB
    On the other hand H Updo is great to cover the air space directly in front of Peacock (the relevance of this will come up shortly), but it doesn't help out BB extremely well. Ideally I want Filia doing her thing on the screen since that is the best way to not let the opponent play that I can think of, so perhaps this assist might not be extremely useful if my game plan works like it should, but for the times that my game plan doesn't work out, this might be something I need to think through.
    EDIT: After playing with it for a bit, H Hairball does seem to work out quite decently in pushing the opponent away, plus it has a lot of blockstun so I can use that to charge item drops and let out other specials. The range isn't as big as H Brass but it works at mid range where the opponent can come in and try to mess with my zoning tools. I can let H Hairball control the ground and jump up and air throw or j.HP - or jump back j.HK - and depending on how it works out, I can go back to my zoning.

    3. BB is probably the tiebreaker in this. L Extend is god and it is a great defensive tool for both Filia and Peacock (and having L Extend frees up Filia having to be the DP assist), plus it's really useful for mcpeanuts' setups that I'm shamelessly stealing. Plus it's L Extend.
    On the other hand H Brass Knuckles I've heard is just a god assist for zoning since it's a big assist with armour. However I don't feel like this is a requirement for this team since mcpeanuts seems to do well without H Brass and I feel like I should be able to recreate that H Brass with H Hairball (albeit weaker because no armour and it skids alongside the ground while H Brass is at face level for many characters so it's not a complete recreation) and maybe I can play more at a mid range where using L Extend as a poke might be useful somehow. I don't know, I need to mess with this.
    EDIT: I'm going to stick to L Extend for this because H Hairball seems to work out as an assist to Peacock for her zoning (huehuehue I'm a pun master ye bwoi), plus Filia benefits from L Extend more because she can convert off it, unlike H Brass (easily anyway).

    Overall I need to have in game experience to understand how these assists pan out, most likely.


    Should work on not being a scrub before I start trying to act smart though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  19. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So after playing more and more, I've realised that my brain needs a LOT of experience with Peacock zoning. Often times I get caught making bad calls as far as using specials go, such as charging an item specifically for too long, not taking advantage of the disrespect my opponents give me while I try to set up my zoning, and not taking advantage when I do get someone blocking eg H Hairball assist. I don't know how I can cure these problems specifically, other than just looking back at my cringeworthy matches, seeing where I got hit, running that neutral scenario back in training mode and seeing what I could have done against it.

    I also edited my above post regarding my current Pea/Fil/BB assist choices, based on the experience I have so far.

    One problem I've come across while playing a lot is not being able to fully capitalise off hits and turn that into 'setplay', ie just dropping combos and hits and not doing clean resets (which causes me to drop more hits). Often I'll get a throw in the corner and just go for the max undizzy damage combo at no undizzy instead of trying to go into mixups, or vice versa. I guess I just need to practice seeing how much undizzy I have and make it muscle memory to do the proper combo.

    Overall I need to practice a lot. A. Lot. And since university is starting up for me next week, I don't know how I can balance university work with SG as well as other fighters. I guess I'll have to see.

    PS: Man, Robo Fortune is so cool, especially for a player who likes to aggressively zone and not necessarily just stay full screen chucking things like me. Then again, that's probably what Peacock does and I'm most likely looking at it wrong.
     
  20. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So I finally understood what an OBS is and how it works and now I can record my past matches and go over them (thanks to mcpeanuts for the inspiration)! I'll try to do my own analysis in video and for next time also have TL;DW notes at the end (didn't do it this time because I'm dumb). Also I might record all the 20 to 30-ish games I play vs people instead of just going over like five games.

    Games vs Dean (open)
    Part 1
    Part 2


    If anyone has any advice in terms of gameplay or recording these better, then please let me know.
     
  21. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Game 1-
    3:10 USE THE c.LK s.HP OTG OFF OF BEAT EXTEND LIKE I TOLD YOU TO 5 MILLION YEARS AGO YOMAPLS

    4:57 What you mentioned about using assists for pressure is correct. Also, one thing you could be doing is looking for good aerial resets vs Bella. Considering that Bella has no air supers, her biggest threats she can pull when recovering are falling j.LK or doublejump out to make your setup whiff. If you have a setup that can blow both up, like the s.HP IAD j.LK/LP into crossunder reset which I think is tight enough to not get j.LK'd or doublejumped out of, then Cerebella MUST block that mixup or die. Also air throws, must air tech them or die.

    6:00 Consider sometimes doing just jump forward and block if you want safe-ish air movement forward, maybe call L Extend while descending to keep yourself safer, or abort with airdash backwards j.HP to fake out. Doing IAD j.LP or IAD j.HP at that range isn't a bad choice either, but if you mix up your movement options to force him to use different spacings/different counters to beat what you're doing it will by default make you less predictable.

    8:14 Air-to-Air throw is actually a great idea with Big Band vs Bella, but you are attempting it from far too high. It is better done from below since you can far more easily aim an air throw rising from below. You should be able to pay attention to how he's jumping, since most people will jump at habitual ranges, like "jump range" where a jumpforward air normal would hit or threaten space. From above, you should be attempting to bully bella with j.LK's massive hitbox.

    9:30 NOOOOOOOO You should've immediately looked at the life after hitting the super, gone "Oh, time to otg with qcb HK and another SSJ to kill bella". That would've won you the character!!! SSJ, H Giant Step, SSJ/Level 3 is crucial for making big band comebacks.

    I'll post my notes on your other games soon I gotta do things
     
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  22. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Some recording those better advice, I'll give other advice later.

    1) try to record at right resolution haha

    2) The game volume drowns you out, lower iiitttt

    3) I think you should record the game raw (with the inputs and hitboxes still if you want) then talk over it in your editing program, so you can pause the footage that way instead of in game pause with accompanying sounds and big pause screen obscuring the view making your points less easy to parse.
     
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  23. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Recently played a set with tomo. Fortunately, this one got captured on stream (and not many people made fun of me, which is always great) so I don't have to record it myself through my hot garbage setup, and neither do I have to talk with my shitty voice over it, so that's great.

    Me vs tomo (open)


    I will, however, go over it myself, noting things I see that I should improve or look for counters to.

    Me vs tomo (open)

    0:06 First mistake, picking BB on point vs RF. I do make it work at the start though by catching tomo and being able to go into setplay.
    0:14 I didn't confirm that string, had just done autopilot full string, however I don't know how I should keep pressure off of blocked BB c.LK c.MK. I'm scared of using reaction H Hairball assist call because they might PBGC super (or in RF's case, PBGC s.HP, but I should have confirmed through testing tomo that he's able/willing to do that and done that. I should practice this and make it a habit to test people for that.
    0:20 The c.HK was an execution error. Bad mistake. That also caused me to go, "Wait, whoops," and have a brain fart, causing me to get hit. Not the best thing to ever happen.
    0:29 That H Brass was a dumb idea, especially since I didn't call Filia to make it safe. I think I tried to punish the whiffed c.HP, and if so, I should have done L Brass instead since it's faster and safe.
    0:47 I really should punish that slide. I let it go many times later this set too. It's lack of character experience I think; if I saw it more I'd punish it on reaction more often, at least to make the opponent do something more unsafe.
    0:49 Man I am paying absolutely no attention to what tomo is doing. This is pretty dumb, even for me.
    0:55 I don't know how to play neutral in this game.
    1:00 I could PBGC through this super but I dunno how to punish it then. PBGC SSJ near the end of the laser? I still end up taking massive chip though.
    1:11 I don't know what these beams do. They do hit me a lot though.

    3:30 This sucks. tomo blows through my round start A Train vs Brass 'mixup' with RF c.MK. I feel like unless I catch RF at round start, the matchup isn't great for BB, and me not catching her makes me have to chase RF across the stage for most of the match, which I'm not good at.
    3:40 Halp pls hao do u beet lazors.
    3:49 I think I figure it out, but I dropkick and call Filia. Too bad I can't call Filia in that scenario anymore. Thanks Obama.
    4:15 I am really bad at hitconfirming random Airballs into Gregor. If I had done that I could have got my setplay started but welp I'm a scrub.

    5:30 I finally learn that BB at the start is just not a good idea. Maybe Filia can find a way through this maze of lasers and helicopters.
    5:40 CM pls punch me I don't learn to just do OTG c.LK s.HP I gotta be a fancy little shit.
    5:48 Again not punishing slide.
    6:03 I had the setplay going but I drop it because I'm a boss.
    6:34 Probably a good idea to just raw tag to BB there to have two characters instead of just one if Fil dies.
    6:52 Again with the bad H Brass's. I'm kind of glad tomo isn't blowing me up for it.
    7:10 CAN AN ALPACA HAS SOME HALP PLS KTHNX

    8:47 Got a hit, didn't go through with the setplay. At this point I should have noticed that tomo loves to upback, and at every opportunity presented to me, I should have hit him with lows. I didn't, and he gets out of my pressure because of it.
    8:55 Yay for slide sweeps. Beam zoning isn't as big a problem at that range. I should try to stay at that range more often than staying full screen and getting hit by all sorts of dumb stuff.
    9:01 Why the hell did I even call BB right there? That was idiotic.
    9:21 I should stab myself in the throat for doing so many dumb H Brass's. I have a really bad habit of doing pushblock and trying to do my own thing, even though I'm not in an advantageous position in terms of recovery.
    9:29 Alternate between back and downback instead of upback and back, get blown up. Holding back is pretty bad IMO.
    9:35 Do the midscreen version of the combo you dumb scrub.

    10:51 Get an unplanned hit, end up losing neutral anyway. I'm so good at this game.
    11:10 STOP WITH THE BRASS KNUCKLES ALREADY GOD DAMN IT.

    12:58 Again with the autopilot string. I love losing setplay opportunities because of stupid mistakes like these.
    13:00 I should have seen that and tried PBGC SSJ, but SSJ would have given him the positional advantage, so maybe PBGC Knuckles instead? In any case, he should have not been able to hit me.
    13:06 I very rarely bait out reversals. I deserved to get hit.
    13:33 I should have gone low to catch the upback, but the thought hadn't registered in my mind yet. My adaptation skills are pretty low key. I heard a hit and confirmed into my autopilot combo but I got blown up.
    13:47 Why can I not block when there's more than two characters on the screen.

    15:15 I was actually expecting SSJ (but shouldn't have been doing so since I didn't have meter), and when L Extend came out, I tried to get some ghetto combo off of that.
    15:18 I should learn to wait for Beo tackle to come out after j.HP and pushblock it away.

    18:06 Again I don't bait out reversal super. Then again I also don't know how to punish PW's air super so I should figure out how to punish it.
    18:16 I went for the low and he blocked it. tomo pls make up your mind on whether you'll go full upback or nah. ayyy lmao

    20:45 I really should be looking for more PBGC opportunities like the one I gave away right there, to PBGC Gregor to start doing my thing.

    24:23 I kind of know how to punish teleports but not really. I don't have enough peacock experience.


    Side note: wow the more you watch your set the less things you look to repeat as flaws in your gameplay. Interesting.

    TLDR version of notes (open)

    - Learn to play neutral. Learn to see when people use what attacks/assists at what ranges, and know how you can exploit that.
    - I don't know how to block and how to regain advantage once I get hit.
    - I need to learn Beo and RF's tools in order to understand how to fight them.
    - Big Band is one big, fat fuck.


    Holy shit I'm bad at video games.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  24. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Going to bookmark this link here since this is a fantastic breakdown post and it'll be great for my own personal experience. Thanks Dean! http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....iew-bingo-in-under-15-games.6955/#post-252965

    (now for more team theory BS from a scrub yay)

    At the moment I want to work on playing Filia/Double/BB. M Hornet is just great at controlling the mid range and it's something that I'd benefit from greatly, plus Catheads is Catheads :V
     
  25. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    After watching some of this set I just want to make a note about dealing with Robo Fortune's lasers as Big Band. If she's spamming lasers at full screen, you have a lot of options:
    -H Giant Step: After you block a laser you usually have time to do this before they can shoot another laser, the only exception is if they do H laser followed by an L or M laser. However if you parry the first 2 hits of the H laser you can still Giant Step. (you never need to parry more than 2 hits btw that's enough that the rest of the laser won't hit you)
    -H Brass: You need to be just a smidge closer than full screen or it won't reach, beats all lasers
    -kara H Brass: works from full screen, but loses to H lasers. Also L and M lasers can hit you out of the kara. I wouldn't try this honestly I'd try to get in range for a non-kara H Brass
    -Taunted SSJ: maybe taunt if you knock her down so that you can do this later, idk. I wouldn't, but I list this for completeness
    -Block a laser, super jump, double jump: This doesn't get you in in but it gets you to about half screen where you can threaten with your pokes (also when you do super jump double jump, don't whiff a Cymbal Clash at the peak of your jump (???????))
     
    Yomabuddy likes this.
  26. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Thanks a lot man, I'll keep that in mind.
    I mostly did that to stay in the air for longer. It wasn't the best of ideas but I was running out on stuff to try avoid lasers. Probably should have just landed and used those counters though, since if RF reads that she can super jump over and punish me for doing that. Also it's a "thing I like to do", which is a really bad habit and I should work on getting that out of my head as soon as I can.



    I've also got a set of ~25 games vs ClarenceMage recorded and I should probably analyse it but I'm lazy, plus it didn't have Double or RF who I'm trying to fit in as second. Probably thinking too hard about trying to optimise my team selection and not actually paying attention to the things that need work, like neutral and not dropping setplay.



    EDIT: Instead of making a double post like a dumb llama, I'm going to be a smart alpaca and edit my post!

    Played vs Dean ~20 matches today, and played a bunch of matches earlier, with Fil/RF/BB, with H Updo, H Beam and L Extend assist. Going from, "IDK about H Beam, seems kind of janky," to, "H Beam is possibly one of the best assists for this character damn," has been kind of rough. H Beam past three character lengths is really good at clearing out the path for Filia to wavedash in, quite like Doom Plasma Beam assist clearing the way for characters to wavedash in. Things I need to work on as far as making it work even better is concerned is:
    • Being able to see what the battlefield is like - whether an assist is coming, how high they are in the air if they are in the air, how will they block H Beam, how does their point alone deal with it - and changing how I follow in accordingly, whether I go in hard or fake a mixup to bait stuff.
    • Being able to use Filia's movement and normals and movement (intentional) to snipe out assists beforehand so I can set up H Beam better. If I hit an assist out, they're in lockout and they can't call their assist. I should use this to back off and call H Beam, or if I get better at using H Beam, use H Beam at the spacing I'm at, and then go in.
    I need to be able to use this to create sick mixups too though, but being able to use the assist by itself would be more important, especially to my weak neutral.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
    CaioLugon likes this.
  27. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played 21 or so games with Age today. Age plays Peacock/Beo with s.HP and H Chair toss assists. I hate H Chair assist ;_; tfw you hit Beo and Peacock but Chair hits you anyway #HIDDENMISSILESTHO

    I should post up the videos, I'll probably record them tomorrow, but things I took away from my own assessment as well as talking to Age post matches:

    1) Block during neutral and counter call during neutral. I got hit too much by Peacock stuff as well as blocked Beo H Chair Toss with my face far too often.
    Side note: I back teched after eating H Chair Toss too often. Really bad since Peacock gets to play with a lot of space. I should mix up what
    Also I really suck at countercalling. BB L Extend is a really good counter call assist, I just have to be able to look for assists and counter call and blow the opponent up for calling assists. I can do that by looking specifically for the assist to come out and hitting MK+HP to get BB to come smack some people, but the problem with focusing super hard like that is I often get blown up if they don't call their assist, since it takes a healthy chunk of time for me to regroup if the stimulus I'm looking for doesn't occur. Chunk of time in vs games time anyway.

    2) Pay more attention to the opponent. Too often I'm looking at my own character and what is happening to me rather than looking at the opponent and seeing what they are setting up. I could chalk it up somewhat to character unfamiliarity since I still don't know the Peacock matchup, but I should have been able to connect what was happening to how he was setting up bombs and items and did the math (unlike Haunts ayy lmao) to be able to infer situations like, "OK he's charging M Item, let's not just run at him." This happened with all three of my characters. Doing bad beams with RF and doing bad H Brass with BB.

    3) My RF neutral is absolutely terrible. RF's still in the works but I should be studying her more in her current form too if I want to play her. I can't half ass it and play her just for the assist because I suck and I'm going to use Filia and RF is going to come in and she can't get blown up for free as she does currently, and even if I get so good my Filia never dies, the prospect of landing a hit on me and snapping in RF and killing her is too scary and RF H Beam is too good to give away like that.

    4) My H Beam assist usage still needs a lot of work. I call H Beam horribly too often and RF or I get hit anyway, or I will get RF H Beam to come out, but then Age jumps and double jumps away. This is partially good for me because it clears the screen because Peacock can't jump and call her specials to zone, but I can't take advantage of this too often because sometimes I'll just get smacked by counter call Beo H Chair (need to watch videos to study this more, this shouldn't be happening if I use H Beam right) or Age had M Item covering him so I couldn't pressure Peacock, or I simply couldn't punish Age for doing so.

    5) Block when there's more than one character on the screen. It's always been a weakness of mine to pay attention to the point when there's an assist on the screen. I don't know how I should try to fix this, other than just more and more practice.

    6) Something I should start doing more is Fenrir or SSJ whiff DHC RF super to punish assist calls. However some problems with that is whether it is a good meter management strategy at different points of time, having good spacing and good eyes to catch assists and punish them when they come out, and my RF sucks at the moment so bringing her in might not be a good way to try and win the match.

    I really should post the videos to get more feedback and noticing more faults.
     
  28. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Uploading my recent sets vs Dean and Age. The older two sets had a few desyncs and I really can't be bothered to try and cut them out with my less-than-decent video editing skills, especially the set vs Age.

    It's just a pain in general to play the match, record the replays, and then record the replays with me talking over them, and as the recent set with Dean proved, I can't really play and record at the same time (at least with OBS, some other software might not be as resource intensive for my potatolaptop so that might become an option) so analysing match videos is a little bit of a pain unless I can get someone to stream my matches and put them up on YouTube for me so I can record over that recording and talk about it right there. Just thinking on how I can improve my improvement strategy.

    I've noticed that I really like to pushblock, and that's good, since it opens up the option to PBAG and PBGC, but the problem is that I pushblock too late for single hits, especially in the neutral when I chicken block stuff like Beo j.HP, I don't pushblock fast enough to get him away, and I'm not sure if I should pushblock when I chicken block like that anyway (perhaps just land right away, look for Beo to tackle, and call BB to blow up Beo, rather than try to pushblock and be stuck in the air and not be able to call BB). My movement strategies are pretty problematic and I need to find solutions to them.
    Also I've tried to improve on my ability to restrict buttons after BB L Extend assist, but it's still not much better, although it's getting there.

    Another thing is that I've finally started paying serious attention to Fortune/Double/BB.
    lol more irrelevant team theory garbage (open)

    - Fort/Double is good. Double can help move the head really far if I kick it with s.HK. They've got good DHC synergy with Car going into CSF well and vice versa. Double benefits from a DP assist and while Fortune doesn't have the best one, she still has one (need to learn how to convert off it though).
    - Fort/BB is good. While BB doesn't have ability to push the head far with L Extend, I can probably still make it work somehow with Fortune alone, but the real strength of the team is with the ability to control the mid range really well with the head able to cover for BB and Fortune, L Extend assist able to cover for Fortune and her head, and Fortune being able to cover the head and BB. It's a triangular relationship that I think can work really well, and same goes with Fortune/Double. Plus it gives me a much more varied neutral game, which I really appreciate.
    - Double/BB is pretty good too. L Extend assist makes Double j.HP scary if it hits you at all, plus it's a DP assist that's good for Double's defense. M Butt has the potential to make BB rush punches safe (but I haven't tested this). DHC's go well either way.

    I just don't want to work with Filia/RF/BB at the moment because RoboFortune is really incomplete and I'm lazy, although there is a lot of potential with that shell and I seriously think it'll be one of the extremely good shells when RF is released.

    So here are the between me and Dean and Age.

    Me vs Dean, 25/03/2015


    Me vs Age, 26/03/2015 (beware, has quite a few desync's)


    Me vs Dean, 29/03/2015

    (note that the set was still uploading when I posted this, so yeah)

    As always, feedback will be greatly appreciated.
     
  29. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Yay the talking alpaca returns with another commentated set.

    I played like 6 games with Dean today and thought, "Why not just commentate them, so I'll pay more attention to everything?"

    Turns out I pay a little too much attention perhaps.

    There's two parts to the analysis, and both parts were uploading when I posted this so yeah.

    Part one


    Part two


    TLDR version of notes (open)

    This contains the questions and problems I had at the end of the set, and things I wanted to find counters to. Probably wouldn't make much sense if you haven't watched the videos, so I apologise for making you sit through an hour of my shitty voice.

    - What to do vs Double c.LK s.MK s.MK assist blockstring? (can I PBGC Fiber and how can they punish it)
    - Learn to doublesnap.
    - Learn Double air throw range.
    - What to do vs upback + call BB
    - How to deal with Double puddle?
    - Fortune vs Double round start j.HP + BB what do
    - Learn a Double doublesnap and pre doublesnap combo.
    - Check if countercalls can be done on pure reaction or even anticipation+reaction.
    - Is it better to pushblock, against Double c.LK s.MK s.MK, the second hit or the third hit?
     
    Dean[SG] likes this.
  30. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Tested the blockstring for you and cat scratch seems to be the most reliable answer assuming you pushblock the first 5MK, ie. the second hit.

    Catscratch will beat committing to anything from there.

    Fiber upper will hit BB in his vulnearable frames and allow you to cancel but Double can hit you.

    If Double does the full string, fiber will whiff and be punished.




    10:40: He didn't countercall, it was just a reaction to you approaching.

    26:25: Your 2LK was what got pushblocked there so that's why you were pushed out.

    Fortune has the easiest double snap in the game

    2LK 2HP
    slight delay IAD j.HK
    repeat

    31:10: You crossed yourself up

    41:39: just block it + call assist, you said it yourself, do it :p



    Honestly there are only 3 things killing you

    1) You run face first into things that are right there. Like puddles and Big Bands.

    2) You push weird things at weird times, like 5HP out of pressure.

    3) You fimble, usually trying to reversal and you screw up.
     
    Yomabuddy likes this.
  31. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Revisiting my notes/questions with answers.

    What to do vs Double c.LK s.MK s.MK assist blockstring? (can I PBGC Fiber and how can they punish it) (open)
    Still need to test this with Double and BB.

    What to do vs upback + call BB - special note (open)

    Universal solo answers:
    - React to the upback, dash in and either do a move with lots of active frames to snipe out assists on prediction, or do quick jabs on reaction to the assist to jab it out, and get assist lockout that I can use to go in.

    - Predict (need more practice with this, but almost feels like it has to be a prediction) and dash air throw.
    -- Double cannot do her regular combo after air throw as BB will make j.HK combos not work since he'll eat the bird hit for other characters. I should do (note: This is Double+BB specific.)
    dash c.LK s.MK s.MK s.HK,
    j.MK j.HP,
    j.LP j.MK j.HP,
    s.MK s.MK s.HK, (this part drops on or is extremely finicky on lighter characters)
    j.LK(3) j.MP(1) j.HP,
    s.LP LP MK MK c.HP snap
    which will carry from midscreen to corner where I can snap and kill BB.
    -- Fortune can do a really delayed j.HP and that will catch Double (need to test this for all characters) and I can do the air throw combo afterwards (which I still need to learn >.< )
    -- BB can do his regular stuff no problemo.
    -- I can make this safer if I have an assist in the back with dash jump assist-call air-throw, since doing it raw can cause me to get punished for a whiffed air throw.

    If I have BB in the back I can also dash low + counter call. If it hit then well and good (but BB's coming in since I'm not doing BB as part of the hitconfirm but on prediction to the upback), but if it got blocked, BB snipes out the other assist and I have the advantage.

    How to deal with Double puddle? (open)

    Fortune vs Double round start j.HP + BB what do (open)
    Dash jump j.LP will beat out Double j.HP, which I can follow up with ~j.MK xx L El Gato, OTG s.LP into fiber loops BnB.

    Learn a Double doublesnap and pre doublesnap combo. (open)
    Learned it. c.LK s.MK s.MK s.HK xx delayed fridge rinse and repeat.

    Pre doublesnap BB proof combo is in the "How to deal with upback+BB" section.

    Check if countercalls can be done on pure reaction or even anticipation+reaction. (open)
    Dean was mostly doing anticipation/"You're in the range so I'll just do it" assist calls.

    Is it better to pushblock against Double c.LK s.MK s.MK the second hit or the third hit? (open)
    Tomo answered it in the "c.LK s.MK s.MK assist blockstring" part


    Learning is fun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
  32. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played ~35 games with SnowedSmokey and ~10 games with ClarenceMage (got like 20 games with Smokey before I deleted the other replays and I forgot that I had to upload the other games. I r so smurt n stuff).
    1. I can't block vs Squig.
    2. I can't make people stop blocking after countercalls. Need to learn the timing when the opponent is out of blockstun from L Extend.
    3. Practice more Fort resets and learn neutral.
    4. Practice mixups after getting Double c.LK s.MK blocked. (c.LK s.MK delay s.MK c.HP cilia frametrap vs c.LK s.MK delay s.MK c.HP gunshot vs c.LK s.MK dash repeat)
    5. Muscle memory Fort IAD j.LK max range.
    6. Practice Fort conversions after air throw, ground throw and H Fiber Upper.

    Some matches vs SnowedSmokey I finally uploaded. Will go over the set and note faults in my neutral in more detail soonTM.

     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  33. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Daily reminder to myself that one of the biggest reasons I lose is because I eat BB L Extend a shit ton and I don't know how to stop it in the neutral or when I'm pressuring them and until I drill it in my head that I should space it out in the neutral or throw them during their call (or if they're super meta, delay low as they call assist then input throw tech) when I'm on offense, I will constantly berate myself and never git gud.

    EDIT: Also learn to deal with dumb shit like Bella j.MP and how to space it and punish its usage with Beam and/or L Extend calls.

    EDIT2: Also learn my Fortune throw and H Fiber combos till I can do them 10/10.

    I r teh suck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
  34. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So after reading a lot and watching a lot of match videos and doing a little critical thinking I'm thinking of primarily playing pretty lame with my team. I want to just back off, make my opponent come to me, and open themselves up to me, because I feel like trying to do so myself, especially with DP assists in neutral, is a risk I can afford to avoid entirely. It also helps that my opponents at the moment aren't playing character who can out-lame me and my assists right now (mainly Valentine) so I afford to run around and call Beam to make them respect it and clear out whatever they were about to call, and then if I see them getting reckless with their approach, use L Extend to punish them and setplay them.

    What I need to improve with regards to this gameplan is:
    1. Realise when it's safe to super jump over my opponent and use super jump, double jump and air dash to fly over my opponent.
    2. See when BB calls are needed so I can make people stop going in recklessly and get my own setplay started.
    3. Play my characters solo as well as in my team, because once I lose Fortune, I lose a lot of hope as far as making comebacks is concerned - hell my RoboFort combos always end in super so I can push them out, I don't make use of resets at all.
    My BB doesn't really know how to approach, I only really turtle until I get a knockdown, and that doesn't work if I don't have the life lead.
    For maximum lame play and maximum effectiveness of neutral I need to be able to use headless as another way of keeping people from using assists for either defensive or offense purposes, and I feel like I can only force myself to do this if I play solo Fortune.

    I'll start with solo Fortune, then move on to RF/BB duo.

    I don't know if my team is as optimal as it gets, but honestly at this point I don't really care. I just want something I can play and have fun with, and this team is fun.

    EDIT: 4. LEARN TO FIBER UPPER ON REACTION TO PUSHBLOCK.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  35. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    This is just my opinion, but playing solo wont help you play an anchor character well...

    Well it wont help any more than simply playing the character.

    Heres the thing, if you play solo, you actually DO have an assist of sorts... That assist is free damage in the form of a higher damage percentage. Youll get used to all this free damage and it can definitely hurt your team game.

    If you really want to practice a character well for anchor, just put them in front on your regular team. You will get used to assists, but playing the character well without assists, versus playing the, well without crazy damage, its easier to go to playing without assists imho. Maybe its different for other people but solo reall is its own thing where as teams can very much be mix and matched. When i want to practice up a character that im just starting out with, i will use them on point.

    I think being able to play a character well on anchor at least, is just something that comes with time. There are big differences between playing a character solo, versus point on trio, anchor on trio, anchor on duo and and point on duo. Best all around way imho is to just play the character as a point on a team for a week or 2
     
    Yomabuddy likes this.
  36. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    That's true, but I feel like I need to learn to play without assists. As it stands, when I lose my assists I lose a part of my game plan, and I feel like I can and should work on that through playing them solo, since it gives me a better understanding of my own options and when I can't do anything but have to call assists.

    I'll also try your idea though, since I also understand your reasoning and agree with it.
     
    Dime likes this.
  37. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Hey, you do you :) ill just say this:

    The supposition that you need to learn to play without assists because when you dont have assists, your gameplan changes. Makes... Imho, the assumption that you WILL be losing your assists. In my mind, NOT losing your assists should be the ultimate goal. Like i play painwheel on point... I seriously cant remember the time where i had to play her with no assist available.. It just doesnt regularly happen. Usually she dies, or she wrecks shop on the opponents team.

    If you are saying that you need to be able to play well whille your assist is locked out or simply recovering... Then solo play wont teach you that. I know exact,y how long my assists are locked out for, probably to the nearest 5 frames, because i play with locked out assists and stuff all the time. Being in the situation is what prepars you for the situation. I know you are still a beginner basically which is why i offer this perspective of advice. From where im standing, it isnt that you need to know how to play fort without assists, better, its that you need to play WITH assists, better :)

    Im not saying this to be an ass at all or anything, i wouldnt do that. Ive also given clarence lots of advice that has helped his game, and he has done the same for me. Im not saying this to blow my horn :) and of course since you arent me, maybe it is bets for you to go solo as practice. Do you. I just wantedto put my perspective out there since ive got lots of experience at the game.


    I watched the first 2 games of you versus smokey just awhile ago. First game is you stuck in the corner and getting lockddown all game. This is someting that happens to all of us but there were things i saw that would have made your life easier:

    Learn when to pushblock Parasoul for one.

    For 2. You can pushblock then pbgc into super if you are being locked down by a lockdown assist.

    Second game i noticed that smokey was doing ALOT of parasoul jhp plus quigly assist and you would land into the assist. You can pushblock in the air to avoid landing on the assist. I also saw smokey abusing the hell out of parasouls j.lp j.hp chain combo, if you block that combo parasoul is at a significant disadvantage as you land and you actually get a free jab into combo with fortune.

    If you want to practice the punish, do this:

    Setup training mode dummy to record.
    Record parasoul doing a neutral jump and then immediately jumping forward and doing a j.lp,j.hp chain (you will have to buffer the j.hp since it will wiff on the recording. Then before you even land with parasoul make sure you hold downback. And hold it for about 5 seconds to take into account the fact that parasoul will actually ge the entire chain combo blocked once you practice against it.

    From there just practice punishing parasoul as she lands before she can block.

    Once you can do that, no parasoul is going to abuse it against you as much :)
     
    Yomabuddy likes this.
  38. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    Why are all your videos at a small boxed resolution? If you want help in figuring out the settings for your video I can help if you want or there's plenty of advice if you search it out. We've come quite a ways these days on the internet that we don't have to deal with poor resolution anymore.

    Only looking at the smokey video, basically what Dime X pointed out is right in that you just had a hard time dealing with Parasoul pressure even though the guy wasn't going for many resets. The only thing I'd want to add is that multiple times you messed up Updo xx Gregor. The timing isn't that strict on it so don't rush to do it too early and you'll get it eventually.
     
  39. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I basically have a potato laptop that isn't built for gaming at all, and I can't make videos at relatively high resolutions so I turn my game down to 800*640 or something (I'll have to check but it isn't my full screen resolution). I can figure out how to get OBS to record only my game and not have black edges on the side though so I can fix that, but I can't record super high quality 60fps vids nor record while playing since I have really big problems with my game's framerate dropping so it can record while working the game :(

    Yeah it was my first time dealing with low assists (most of my learning was against L Extend) and that setup in particular so I just need to learn how to deal with it and avoid that spacing as much as possible, as well as learn when I can PBGC super and practice actually doing it too. Thanks for the advice @Dime_x and fenster.
     
  40. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Been too long since I had one of these boring bullshit team theory posts. Plus I want to note down what I've been thinking for the past week really bad so I can review it next week and think how stupid I was so here goes.

    Fortune/RoboFortune/BigBand theory garbage (open)

    H Fiber/H Beam/L Extend. To be honest I didn't really put too much thinking into this, I just picked what I felt like Fortune would benefit from the most. H Beam is great (if not only because she doesn't have anything else that looks super worthwhile) and L Extend is great because it's L Extend.

    With point Fortune, I'm looking to play at this range. optimal range.png PS: look at my demonic music wow

    This range is great to me for a number of reasons:
    1. This is outside all DP assist ranges. This is basically where L Extend would just barely miss on crouching Filia right there. I am getting kind of sick of getting tagged by L Extend in neutral (partly this is because of me always running in and doing c.LK s.MK so all my opponent has to do is hold downback and mash assist and I'm free and I need to change that) so I am thinking of avoiding it as much as I can altogether, since prevention is better than cure and I'd rather be outside of the range of L Extend as compared to be inside it and feel dread at all times while I'm in the zone where L Extend can bite me at any point. Also if they make one bad step here my own L Extend can catch the opponent, and Fortune runs pretty fast so I can confirm off L Extend stray hits really well.
    2. This is also a range where if I back off a little bit by doing my backdash or upback and back air dash, I can call RF basically for free and they can't do shit about it. The opponent has to respect it and either:
    - dash block or dash and duck, both of which I can use as openings and go in or H Fiber over them (the last option is a little risky if they have an assist that can catch me out of the air like L Extend since it reaches so far up, but I'm sure that with the right spacing and timing, I can H Fiber and double jump to get over that space, need to test this more thoroughly).
    - jump over the beam and either use an air mobility option over it, which I can either avoid entirely and gain ground on the other side of the stage or let them eventually land in the beam and use the blockstun of the beam to create a left right mixup situation or just run away from the corner and play lame more.
    3. If I scare my opponent into not doing anything I can use this to go in and threaten with c.LK s.MK or c.LK s.HP against some characters, which leads to a shit ton of damage even at the tippy tip of c.LK, or jump, wait a bit, airdash j.LK j,MK triple overhead (on second thought this was really hard to get consistently vs some characters at some timings so I might just forego this for j.LK j.MP, but IDK), or even just run in, block and call L Extend to get blockstun, and try to use that to get a mixup.
    4. When I learn headless neutral, this is also a place where I can control my head decently well and use it for my offense or defense, though this feels more like speculation that hasn't been backed with solid evidence through game play or other people don't do it really.

    The plan is that once I get a hit, I don't really let my opponent back to neutral and rip apart through their team as fast as I can and maximise whatever openings I can get, and this scenario to me is a pretty solid way of getting hits, though I do seem to have a problem with this gameplan, but this might be just due to me being hot trash.

    The problem with this team is that:
    1. I don't really like RF/BB, I don't think it's a solid team (of course this might be completely bogus with RF being incomplete and everything). I was experimenting with Double/BB before, and that feels better, but the problem with that is M Bomber, which is what I would pick for Double, isn't as oppressive of a midscreen assist as H Beam is, plus I think running under the opponent with Fortune if they airblocked M Bomber is really hard/impossible...? I dunno, this feels kind of weak, RF is still EXTREMELY new so I might be underselling the power of this team right now.
    2. If RF gets snapped in, I'm kind of fucked, since RF on defense is just RIP (again, might be a problem of me or a problem of "Let RF finsh, scrub" more than the fault of the character) and getting rid of RF gets rid of what I feel is a very important one-third of my overall Fortune strategy since it helps make my neutral more dynamic so I feel rather uncomfortable playing Fort/BB, but then again if I'm down a character, chances are I need to make a comeback really bad, and so I'll be going in and not really focusing on running away and calling H Beam for positional advantage, so again this feels pseudoweak? However the loss of RF as far as my total lifebar goes is still a bit of a pain.

    Overall, I feel like this team is more of a higher level team than the other teams I was playing with, since it's front heavy, requires me to play perfectly and I'm done if I don't but if I do I'm good to go, and I have the tools to do so from the start of the match, it's just about making the right reads and having the spacing right, which is difficult. This also means that the margin for error is less, so I have to git gud.

    I often do feel like I should just go play something easier and 'better' (?) like say Fortune/Filia/BB because Filia is better at knocking the head around, Filia/BB is pretty good too and I have experience with that shell, and maybe H Hairball also allows me to escape corner situations well (I need to test this) but I feel like H Beam is a better assist for Fortune in this scenario than H Hairball and if I want to go front heavy I should go all the damn way instead of half assing it like this.

    I don't know, maybe I'm just a scrub. Maybe I just think too much about teams and don't just git gud. Or maybe this team is not as good as I think it is and I'm drinking the "L Extend or H Beam assists are probably going to be mandatory for top tier teams" koolaid too much without really thinking critically and analytically about the different situations that can happen to me during a match.

    Or maybe I should just quit this game for TTT2 and GGXrd. That's certainly an option.
     

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