From scrub to not scrub in dunno when

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by Yomabuddy, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Set vs #FreeChairmanMao. He plays Peacock so the replays have quite a bit of desync because argus values and random and stuff aargh why, but even so I think I can learn a little bit from the set.



    Key things to note from the play:
    (this is going to hurt so much since I hate to say good things about myself on the internet)
    1. I played neutral much better than I have before vs Mao, most of the time I just ran forward and ate bombs and item drops with my face. That isn't to say I don't do that in this set anyway, but I feel like I've improved on it somewhat. The next step as far as playing vs Peacock is concerned is practice navigating through the different bombs that are on screen, like jumping through L Bomb and H Bomb, and just being able to navigate through the maze that Peacock sets out by noting what special just happened so I know that that area the Peacock player cannot cover for a short while so I should attempt to go through there, but it's incredibly difficult since a good Peacock will have good control of the screen and will notice when their different specials have cooldown and be prepared to cover those angles either through her normals or assists. Side note, I need to learn to plan my approaches vs what specials are coming right now, what just happened and what are off cooldown so they can happen right now.

    2. Somethings I need to try, and these ideas are pretty much all courtesy of Mao, are:
    - Look up what I can do if RF and BB are being hit by Argus and BB starts taking the hits for RF (BB the tough guy that he is).
    - in the RF vs Peacock matchup,
    - try using s.HP to absorb a single projectile and shoot a beam to get Peacock to stop doing stuff for a while, plus it can get rid of Item Drops if the beam actually hits.
    - try to use the magnet super if I can predict+react to instant air backdash j.HK.
    - learn Peacock/BigBand happy birthday combos.​

    3. My RF still needs a lot of work. I need to learn
    - the spacings and situations where summoning a head and deploying mines would be a good idea
    - using magnet super for s.HK and grab combos
    - when to rush down and when to back off. Funnily enough I have somewhat of the same problem with Fortune as well, but it's more apparent with my RF.

    PS: There's like 5 more games between me and Mao that are left in the set and that I should upload but I'm too lazy.

    EDIT: How the fuck do you catch Valentine I don't get it I hate this matchup Val can go die in a fire tyvm
    Val got me like (open)
    [​IMG]
    EDIT2: DON'T BE STUBBORN IF SOMEONE IS CROSSING YOU UP ALWAYS YOU BLOCK CROSSUP THEY WON'T STOP CROSSING YOU UP IF YOU DON'T BLOCK CROSSUP WHY CAN I NOT GET THIS THROUGH MY HEAD.

    EDIT3: My movement is really predictable, I do a lot of jump forward air backdash j.HP with Fortune and a lot of superjump 9HK with RF. I need to force myself to stop doing it and do it only when that option is necessary, since it gets me killed now more often than it helps me. Need to learn to approach on the ground.

    EDIT4: LEARN HEADLESS STUFF GODDAMNIT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  2. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    headless sucks
     
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  3. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    can u pls not
     
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  4. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played like 20-ish games with SnowedSmokey today, and overhead assist + low and low assist + overhead is bodying the shit out of me. I need to be able to PBAG properly to defend against assists like Squigly 2HP. It would be great if I could improve my spacing and learn the range of that assist so I could just stay right out of the range where Squig 2HP is a threat and body Smoo for trying to get in with Beat Extend and (when I git gud at using the head) head stuff, but I need to be able to do both and I feel like PBAG is more important in the short run since I'm not really great at the prevention aspect of this strategy in general and I'll need to find cures to this problem most of the time anyway.

    I also have a really really bad problem of not being able to defend the space in front of me. It's like, I'll see my opponent far away and I'll be ready to air to air them or hit them out of their dash in attacks with my own, but I'm missing the step between "He's at a range where he isn't a threat" and "He's at a range where he is a threat" and because I'm missing it, I'm often getting bodied for trying to upback to make that space again. I guess this has to be solved both in terms of improving my assist calls as well as being able to defend the space in front of me without it and being able to use my normals and movement to stop my opponent from getting in as well as opening them up myself. This is both with Fortune and RoboFortune - with Big Band I think I have better understanding of neutral than with Fortune and RoboFortune (even if only a little bit) especially since I've forced myself to stop doing cymbals without reasons lately.
    A related problem to this is that I don't have a full understanding of other characters and at what ranges are they dominant and what normals and specials make them dominant, since most of my neutral learning has always against beat extend assist and not necessarily characters and their own options, but I don't know how to learn this since forums are... not the most cohesive when it comes to information like this, and top level play that has my characters is rather difficult to find a lot of footage of.

    Also when someone gets me to block I often respect them too much and continue blocking for perhaps too long in a lot of situations, which leads me to getting opened up by overheads, lows or throws. I need to improve on my PBGC timings and practice PBGC H Fiber, PBGC L Extend and PBGC SSJ, as well as learn to not reversal when my opponent is expecting me to do so.
     
  5. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I finally have a strim yay. I can't stream my games while I'm playing online, which kind of sucks but hey, at least I can stream training mode and going over my faults during matches so I can git gud.

    I don't expect anyone to watch it. I'm only doing this for my own improvement really, not to be entertaining to other people (because I'm not very entertaining in general but also because I don't expect anyone to be entertained by what I'm doing on my stream anyway).

    It's twitch.tv/Yomabuddy if anyone cares, however.

    Another thing is I have a pastebin on which I can note down all the situations I need definitive combos for, which is http://pastebin.com/anGRLcxJ and I'll keep marking down what all I know and what I don't know and slowly chip at it with school, my own personal projects as well as just playing the game and trying to solve those problems. It's not my ultimate priority since I don't really believe in combo optimisation at my level, but it'd be nice to know something for situations I have absolutely no clue about, like Robo Fortune air throw combos. Once I do know all of this I can probably just spend an hour in training mode every week making sure I have these combos down still but it's not a huge priority of mine in the short term.
     
  6. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    First time doing a video analysis on Twitch, give ya boy some free money.

    Thanks to @CaioLugon for popping in the chat again by the way, helped me catch stuff I didn't know or couldn't notice.



    Man, I pause way too much haha. I'll try to have all the matches played for everyone first, then do my pausing all the time thing later.

    TLDR version of my notes from this set (open)

    - Does alpha countering through Valentine normals into Fortune or Big Band work?
    - How do I deal with Painwheel j.MP as Big Band?
    - Don't use j.LK to OTG after air super or air throw as Big Band, always do j.MK (thanks Caio!)
    - Try doing Alpha Counter into Big Band if I eat burst baits.
    - Try doing dash c.LK as a round starter since it can meaty Big Band calls at round start.
    - How do I play effective RoboFortune neutral vs Valentine? (focus on M and H air beams? How to use heads? When to call heads?)
    - After an OTG off of Beat Extend assist, do c.LK s.HK 2 hits for maximum consistency.
    - How to deal with Dead Cross at normal jump height from far away as Big Band? (empty jump parry?)
    - Make the opponent fear my reversals more.
    - Don't lose neutral.
    - Git gud.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
  7. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    tfw trying to get around peacock spam
    Go to 2:09 (open)
     
  8. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Yoma please come back
     
  9. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    It's incredibly frustrating being on the inside and not seeing any growth at all in my play, even though people keep telling me that I'm improving. I still keep losing to the same tactics and to the same people in the same manner and I'm not making time out to study those tactics and learning how to beat them as much as I feel like I should.
     
  10. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    It is hard to see your own progress unless you get very analytical about your play.

    I don't think you mean me because we haven't played much recently?

    If you mean CM, just learning his setplay wont be enough to beat him, you will need to match his fundamentals to consistently beat him and none of us are doing that yet.
     
  11. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played a set vs Fruitcake with the new team Filia/RF/BB vs his Fort/Bella/BB, I had a shit ton of trouble controlling Fruit's jumps and double jumps because I couldn't catch him with beat extend a lot and he was always ready with the counter calls and I can't PBAG fast enough to not eat a mixup right after blocking H LnL assist. Also I couldn't get him to fear him downbacking pretty close to my face by using IAD j.LP because I was afraid of reversal supers but I wasn't doing tight blockstring mixups anyway so that point is moot I'm an idiot. I was able to take away from him using H LnL as a free way in by being farther away and using beams but I couldn't capitalise on both the assist lockout and either him being in the air or crouching under the beam for mixups.

    Realising that Fil on point is not being effective, I switched to RF. My RF zoning still needs a lot of work and I still have the horrid habit of doing H Beam when they're right in my face and I have trouble reading where the opponent wants to move, which is pretty problematic for RF zoning since she can't cover the ground and the air extremely well at the same time like Peacock can to a certain extent.

    My neutral is still pretty garbage and autopilot and I don't adapt to mixups as fast as I should be able to.

    TLDR I suck git gud DLC when

    EDIT: I should have videos of the set available in the next few days with my own analysis of them.
     
  12. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Man putting up videos of sets is dumb bullshit for nerds.

    Current weaknesses:
    1. Not protecting my assists. Often times I'll call BB then back off and let him get hit, and not even capitalise on hits that way using ringlet hit confirmed to gregor, which tells me two things: I'm not confident in the post BE mixup (because my timing to counter hit people out of their buttons after BE is still pretty bad because I'm not block confirming it) and I need to start protecting my assists more.

    2. My neutral's getting slightly better but I still IAD in for no reason in neutral and get clipped with BE calls. I need to improve my neutral decision making by being more cognizant of my surroundings. At least I'm going in after beam calls, which is good, but I have a tendency to autopilot my stuff from there eg call beam, wavedash in, (IAD j.HP IAD j.LK j.HK)<- autopilot.

    3. I keep dropping basic BnB's because I'm panicking a lot for some reason. From random hits like BE clips that aren't clean hits I should stick to an easier combo into perhaps an immediate reset, but from clean hits like crossups I just need to panic less. I'm consistent with my stuff in training mode, just need to be less afraid of dropping my stuff and making it a self fulfilling prophecy.

    Also apparently I'm able to stream and play online when I'm wired up, so if I play long sets with people I should stream it so I have an easy way of going back to them rather than going through replays.
     
  13. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Robo Fortune notes (open)

    - j.LK j.MK j.HP xx L Laser + BB assist is best air to air. j.LK j.MP if BB isn't available. Air throw also useful but not as damaging.

    - 9MK j.HP xx L Laser + BB assist is great vs IAD and leads to most damage because I'm at stage 1 with a medium counter hit. 7HP is less committal but harder to get damage off of due to different ranges where it hits so BB conversion isn't consistent. s.LK works slightly inside midrange (OS s.LK s.MK hit confirm) and s.MP works slightly outside mid range (OS s.MP c.MK xx L Laser+BB or s.MP c.MK xx Magnet super if BB is unavailable). s.MP spark has much bigger hitbox and Varying amounts of risk to punish blind IAD at mid range.

    - j.MP mixup: if they pushblock late, j.MP dj j.LP j.MP vs j.MP j.MK fastfall c.LK. If they pushblock early, just j.MP then delay mixup.

    - Outside of midscreen, lasers are shit due to bad recovery. Possibly use jump, M Laser + Filia H Hairball or 8HP+Filia H Hairball, M Laser at different heights to cover different areas of the screen right outside of mid range? Can be countercalled and possibly punished depending on my M Laser timing.

    - Assist hit in neutral into magnet super leads to regular combos.

    - Don't bother trying to optimise light and assist counter hits.

    - M counter hits you can sneak in s.LK s.MP right after second launch string for extra ~400 damage.

    - How to optimise H counter hits?

    - normal hit s.HP call BB air throw combo (without the starting j.MP j.HK)

    - counter hit s.HP call BB...?

    - Always cancel dashes with 4~1 not 2~1

    - To DHC out to Filia midscreen, always end with H Danger, Magnet super catch DHC Fenrir Drive for max damage, or M Danger, Beam Super DHC Gregor dash s.HP for potential burst bait tricks.

    - Against Bella sweep from range, from least risky to most risky, c.HK, L Beam, c.MK xx L Beam, dash jump j.MK

    - Blockstrings into HK Hairball allows me a free head and free chip from midscreen (using L Air Beam mostly or j.HP L Air Beam or any mixup backed by Hairball), except vs Double who can car to punish me, or vs Beowulf at mid screen or closer because he can arm super.


    Note: Bella sweep is a shit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  14. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    From watching a lot of RayRay's Mag/Doom/Sent, I'm trying to see how I can approach Robo Fortune as a combination of the team.

    LK head is sort of like drones...?
    HK head is missiles.
    I don't have an equivalent of plasma beam assist on my team, perhaps MK Bomber sort of works like that kind of? But I'm not going to Double, so HK Hairball will kind of have to do for that even though it's way worse as a zoning assist compared to Bomber that way.

    RayRay uses a lot of Magnetic Blast in his neutral to keep people away and to control the space in front of him from the air and to discourage people from approaching him on the ground. He mixes up at what ranges and heights he uses Magnetic Blast. He sparingly uses EM Disruptors on the ground and in the air.

    Robo Fortune doesn't have a clear cut magnetic blast but j.HP functions somewhat in the same vein from normal jump height, and LP air beam having a somewhat similar trajectory at heights above that. I imagine using j.8HK cancelled into LP air beam might be useful as a way to control a big amount of space.

    Drones is a really good projectile assist used by RayRay to cover his approach. LK Head can be used somewhat similarly, but there aren't as many projectiles backing me up and LK head moves quite fast so unlike drones where Magneto can easily stay in front of them, doing so is pretty hard with LK head since it moves so fast. Personally I also need to mix up my own approach with it, since I run beside it too often and everyone's used to it now, so I can either look for people to jump over it and space myself for air throws (kinda surprised no one does that tbh, then again I only play vs one RF), or if people are too scared of LK head, I can stay back and get more heads.

    Missiles is more like how missiles should be, not so much acting as ways to generate pressure but to extend it. Up close I can use assists like HK Hairball on hit to successfully get missiles out for pressure (thanks for the idea mpgame!), and from far I can back up and use it to again, either cover my approach or get people scared to move and get more heads.

    I need to watch more footage of RayRay and possibly FChamp as far as how they approach matchups where the opponent is just as mobile, since most of my research has been RayRay vs Coach Steve and Coach Steve's Nova plays fairly grounded so I don't get to see how Magneto deals with characters just as airborne as him.

    Or I can just complain about this character and talk shit like everyone does lol.

    There's also this Robo Fortune player who approaches the character differently but I don't fully understand this, I would have to rewatch this but keeping this link here just in case.
     
  15. Vadsamoht

    Vadsamoht Well-Known Member Administrator

    Steam:
    Vadsamoht
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
  16. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Dem no life scrubs, yo.
     
  17. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    God damn it vad pls.



    ayy back to recording sets. vs tomo009. Recording while playing kinda sucks but it's much better than having to record replays because less time spent mucking around.


    tomo said that often times I didn't really play well because I just mentally cracked, so I need to work on that more in all fighting games.
     
  18. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    Okay let me go over the Tomo video
    Show Spoiler

    In general, he kept hitting you with classic Jump back + assist call or down back + assist call, and even partway through the set he went from jumping at round starts to just sitting there and calling assist, both of which are signs that you aren't dealing with getting through assist pressure well enough. To go with that, you almost never went for throws, which was weird since a lot of the times you went for air throw they actually landed, so I'm not sure why you stopped when it was clearly working out.

    A lot of his Eliza was purely from either calling assist and/or jump back air dash forward to hit you, which is a sign of both you not catching him in the air enough either with pre-emptive lows or air throws (something Filia is really good at and BB isn't the worst at when he gets closer to corner) and that you aren't Anti-airing his approaches well enough. There are glimmers in the set where you go for Filia sHPs or get BB air throws and most of the time those work out, but you end up never applying these things to other characters or even trying it that much in the subsequent matches. More Robo cLP/Ldanger, Filia sHP or cHP or DP, and BB A trains would've helped a bunch, or at least force him to switch to a different neutral approach.

    Your filia seemed okay, you just needed to be more on point with resets. He was upbacking most of the time and you realy went for tricky low resets. On your pressure/resets in general, you definitely needed to do more ticks, like more clk -> clk or clk-> throw.

    For Robo, I'm not exactly sure what your approach was. If you're trying to be a more buttonsy "call head and go in" robo, you need to make better use of jLP and jMP as your get in tools and utilize more throws. If you're trying to zone, you had good use of ground M beam and kamikazi, but should've done more jump back jHP L laser, air H laser and used more L danger against air dash pressure (either form PBGC or from cmk L danger, those are usually good opportunities). You could also try doing more sHP + BE call on defensive as well.

    For BB, stooooop just auto piloting cLK cmp. Especially when you are intentionally delaying clk into cmp. On hit clk gives you a while to react, so you should just be doing a clk and reacting to the block. You really needed to do clk -> throw, clk -> clk, or even the classic clk -> giant step, anything but the same old cLK cMP. You also almost always went for cLK against his wakeup or after a jump in, which prety much never worked, meaning you really should've just gone for more throws or raw overheads.

    You REALLY should've switched to Brass assist. Eliza and robo have a hard time with brass, it beats out laser assist when called simultanouesly and goes through chair assist, and already has good synergy with Robo. BE is a great asisst too if not one of the best, but there are also a lot of times when it is not preferred to Brass and this was one of them.

    Not as many little details I wrote down here since most everything was either just drops or something like I said above.

    0:22 - You mash out the wrong assist under pressure, as you call filia instead of BB here, and you do the exact same thing at the start of when you switched team order. You pick up on this later and seem okay, but its still worth noting the general point here. While I think I can get why since this may not be your usual team order, its still really critical to always be aware of which assist is which since team order can switch around a lot in different ways when you start getting into weird DHC's/Tags/Snaps. Keeping aware of which assist is where is very important and something you see even the best of players mess up a bunch when on trios.

    1:31 - Not much a mistake, just my own personal take for the neutral approach here. While normally you are doing Cymbals against Eliza, which is good, that gets risky against Beo chair assist. My reccomendation is to play more grounded and react to the assist. For some reaosn, lately I've had good luck with being able to react to beo's assist coming out and using BB jab, but almost always I found myself doing a lot better against the asisst when I just tried staying grounded and looked for grab/air grab instead of my normal BB approaches.

    2:49 - You call assist after sekmet, and clearly kept trying to go in with a dash. If you meant to fenrir, then thats fine since thats more so a bad input, but there are safer ways to deal with sekhmet hitting your assist.

    4:16 - When you try to convert off of Missiles, you should just try confirming from the air instead of trying to catch them near the ground, it's a lot more consistent that way and you cna usually react to when they just stay hit grounded rather than rsiky air-ground timings.

    8:45 - I think you went a little too ham with the air approaches here as filia, I like to approach eliza mixing in dash sHPs since that usually covers most of Eliza's options and there would've probably hit eliza out of horus.

    9:47 - This isn't the first time I believe this happened in the set, but basically don't go for the giant step -> second SSJ after a happy birthday form the first SSJ since a lot of times the point character will fall out.

    27:05 - For sure, not much reason to go in here even on the life deficit. He kind of clearly was just trying to lame it out with runaway, which robo could handle easily with lasers which do good chip. Jump back H laser is something that probably would've gotten you the win here (and if beo tried to air to air you, you can chicken block and punish on the way down).

    30:59 - Twice in this round, you try to respond to kamikazi head with ringlet which is not a good idea at all. Just block, absolute guard and call assist because robo cannot do any true dash mixup off of kamikazi head, which in general is for catching people going in rather than blocking.

    34:27 - I *think* that if you canceled into H danger sooner Beowulf wouldn't have dropped out? I've never had that drop happen before to me. Also, you should've done Robo Level 1-> BB level 3 instead, as that does a lot more damage in general than just normal Robo level 3 (especially midscreen).

    35:28 - Beo vs BB is definitely bad for BB, but in general you really shouldn't have been looking to use Giant step so much since Beo loves to go in the air. Remember that you should be using armor when he's got chair (since without his chairless jHP he can't deal with armored Brasses too well) and you should use early jLK's and Cymbals against chairless Beo since he can only use meter to deal with that if he doesn't have H toss.

    37:53 - This couldn't have been a more obvious time to grab. Every single one of robo's head calls can be avoided by grabs and you definitely should've reacted here.

    38:06 - I just wanted to point out that this was awesome :o That said, the SSJ was extremely poor. I know you know this already, but if SSJ won't kill, and you aren't going to put them in the corner, save the meter. Especially here when you would've gotten the sliding knockdown to apply pressure, something robo can't deal with and is exactly what you need ot look for as a BB player.

    39:08 - Just to point it out, you probably could've dhc'd to robo magnet super and gotten a safe-ish dhc here since it can recover fast enough on whiff to be safe. It's not totally safe bear in mind but usually it works. Now whether or not you felt comfortable with that is another story, but I don't think it would've been bad here really.

    40:38 - Why no rush punch at all? Even if you were scared of not getting an otg, it would've been faster than just sHK by itself.

    43:30 - Another case of him doing kamikazi head that you had enough time to react to, and you were still pressing buttons, which the is the exact opposite of what you should do. Even if you wanted to do something, throw is the safer option that DP (which I can only assume you wanted form jump jLP?). Either way, just block.
     
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  19. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    The only thing I don't agree with there is double SSJ. I don't use band that much anymore but double SSJ that doesn't kill was one of my favorite things. Soooo much damage.


    I find it funny that mike is a big proponent of not using double ssj since he's also a big proponent of using your meter.

    Situations where I WONT use double SSJ:


    If the SSJ won't kill but will leave me with less than one meter
    If I feel that the corner is more important than damage at this stage of the game (I rarely think corner is important for anchor since anchor can't use assist pressure in the corner)
    If the double SSJ won't bring the opponent below half life (very rare)


    In Most every other situation the extra damage seems worth it. The smaller amounts of life that the opponent has, the less BB has to commit to doing big damage or something, or more than anything else:


    The more things that the opponent can directly die to.



    But yeah, it isn't so,etching to go for every time. For me it's something that I will do most of the time unless one of those situations come up.


    I don't think having hard and fast "rules" like "only if it kills" are really good, in this context at least.


    Just a small point I wanted to make. At the end of the day it's a preference thing :)
     
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  20. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    No no, it's not just Double SSJ in general, that's okay or rather a personal decision and like you said very very fun to do. I mean double SSJ in a happy birthday scenario since more often than not the second SSJ ends up hitting the assist and the point falls out (like what happened in the match there). FWIW I haven't tested it on every character combination I guess so maybe there are teams to do that on and I just got unlucky combinations.
     
    Dime likes this.
  21. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Oh ok my bad man. Should have checked. Yeah them popping out of the happy birthday is something I learned to look out for and I will only go for when extremely desperate or a situation I know it will connect.

    Generally speaking it doesn't connect when BB is one of the characters since his huge hitbox will take the hits before the other character does. It isn't a hard and fast rule, but it seems to apply alot.

    The other thing that seems to apply is when the first SSJ is the happy birthday inducer and it was against both an airborn opponent and a grounded opponent, it seems that when they land they aren't usually on top of each other and that can result in one character getting hit first. More often and the HB dropping that way.

    I'm pretty sure there is more to it than that, but laziness and me knowing that I wouldn't remember the things I tested, kept me from thoroughly exploring the situation.


    But yeah, sorry, I was wrong in my original presumption of what you meant :(
     
  22. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I'm going to forget this so I should write it down.

    Tag to RF stuff:

    Ground down (dying character crumples): free raw tag and one head into mixup.
    Kill with launcher and OTG is preserved in the corner: do 236P, RF raw tag, RF raw tag hits, get one free head into mixup.
    Kill with launcher and OTG is not preserved in the corner: RF raw tag, head is not safe though.
    Kill with launcher midscreen: RF raw tag, one head is unpunishable but negative frames.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  23. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Had a set vs Nuewt, an up and comer in our scene. He started a couple of months ago but has got a lot better, and is much better at me at this point I'd say. We played two sets, one 12-12 and another this one. I wanted to record all of them but my computer is showing its potato self and playing the game at like 30 FPS while recording. Anyway this is the set.


    Axe my head all day please.
     
  24. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Nuewt upbacks out of secondary pressure all day. It goes block the first pressure, then up back on secondary pressure. He also eschews going in for going out. His style is new and unique in AU though. Once neutral has been established with parasoul he won't dash backwards twice to setup spacing for fireballs. Also he tends to upback on reaction to jumpins alot. Not hyper predictably, but that really sets him a
    Art from others I've played IMHO. Most other players will wait to upback till you are right on them but newt does it from a distance since with parasoul he still has the great fireball to control space with.


    Biggest things to look for are:

    Punish his assists when they wiff, with your own countercall.
    Jumpin with LATE airthrow sometimes, especially if it's your secondary offence and he is off assist. Hard for that exact pattern to come up a lot since his movement is good, but everyone has patterns and many of his noticeable ones are defensive.

    Other than that, when you hit him, reset him in the air ALWAYS. use AIRTHROWS and airthrow burst baits, use crossups that hit in the air with filia, she has many. The reason for this is simple:

    He uses tags, reversals and upbacks to augment his defense on the ground. None of that is available in the air. Parasoul in general and Eliza as well are both incredibly weak to air resets. Neither can double jump out of them and neither has an aerial reversal. This is also what you should do against peacock, bella, double, Beowulf and squigly as well since they are all basically free to aerial resets. It's "ok" to go for grounded resets against characters like squigly and peacock since their reversals are terrible for resets anyways, but against characters like bella it's near suicide since they can mash out reversals and make them safe with safe dhc's.


    As far as overall strategy I think you play into his hands by trying to play a strong grounded game. Parasoul owns the ground and immediate air around her by controlling the space with shots and jlp. His team is high on defense and low on mobility. So pump up your mobility with filia by doing things like super jump or regular jump I to look air all just to move around without parasoul shooting you with stuff. Big band should double jump more to clear the barrage of fireballs easier and goad parasoul into shooting dumb fireballs that BB can armor through, or not shooting fireballs so bb can start up jump in pressure or LP brass pressure. Make sure to switch up your jump patterns though so that he can't get an accurate bead on what space to control.

    Robo fortune should be using her jhk movement and fireballs to zone para out. He will try to sniper through, but ultimately that's what you want since that's basically something that's very risky to do just to stop you. And you gain info on his patterns as well. Robo uses jhk to take away paras fireball charge as well as come down on para from weird angles. But mostly you just want to zone para hard with LP laser and air h laser since parasouls movement isn't great for getting around fireballs. He will use bike and stuff but you just have to be a step ahead and punish him for it, or just not get hit. And if he gets close to you, just run away then jhk out and start it over again.

    Obviously not as linear as that, but that's the strategy.

    So basically... Reset her in the air and try to not play her game and instead play your game.
     
    Yomabuddy likes this.
  25. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Yo I did like, reset in the air and and super jump and j.9HK L beam to go above Parasoul's stuff, and like, it worked lmao.

    Seriously though, thanks for that dime. Mixing up my aerial timing and approaches and then doing L Beam at other times helps me deal with Parasoul's neutral. Also with Filia, mixing up between super jump and c.HK to drill makes it easier to deal with baiting the neutral :^) too. I still need to play more as BB against that team to understand it better but that should help there too.

    ----------------------

    With Robo-Fortune in general I feel like playing a super lame RF where I just run away and try to build heads and not even try to actively engage the opponent and kind of just let the timer run out. I just don't feel like actively going in or trying to keep the opponent out with like missiles into other stuff is super fun to me right now. Of course I'm not really maximising the potential of the character by playing that way but from playing super lame Chun in 3S and just lame in other games I really want to play this way for a while haha.
     
    Dime likes this.
  26. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Yeah, I forgot to mention, but if you watch that set, every time your rob of does ground L laser, he blocks it then does his anti fireball move. So with parasoul he blocked then always did bike while you are recovering and since you are at such minus frames the bike gets your second ground L laser.

    And with Eliza he does the same thing except it's cr.hk instead.

    The obvious counter to this is instead of doing 2 ground lasers in a row, jump forward and do air L laser to hit him or make him block... Then mixing up with more ground or air L laser... Just keep it mixy. Of course you can do all kinds of things after the blocked ground L laser. You can run forward and jump the bike then double jump backwards etc etc etc footsies stuff. As you know FG are all about changing up your patterns and keeping your opponent guessing. So just look at what else you can do. Remember that if he does bike after blocking your ground L laser, he is now the one that is at a frame disadvantage, albeit at fullscreen, but you can try to manufacture some midrange pressure mixup games to make him pay for the obvious pattern.. Then he will adjust and so on and so forth :)
     
    Yomabuddy likes this.
  27. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    Only watched the first 4 games for now but I wanted to give some input (so the context here of course is I only watched the first 4 games maybe things changed later)

    G1: A couple of things I noticed with your filia (who did the majority of the work this game):

    -Confirming hits (this was w/ robo later a couple of times too), you got a few hits (j.hp, updo) that you didn't get anything off of, the j.hp it looks like you might have been trying to link right into c.mk which seems risky, but maybe you just missed the c.lk input w/e. With updo though you should be watching to see if it hits and be ready to go into gregor cause there's not really anything else you can do regardless.

    -Pay attention to when you can kill, I didn't really notice this later so maybe you resolved this/it was just nerves but you had kills on parasoul and eliza that you didn't take, eliza it might have been a drop but para you went for a burst bait when she should have just died there.

    Robo stuff was consistent across all games so i'll talk about that after. Nice parry at the end btw.

    G2: You had some hairballs/gregors that seemed pretty out of nowhere and maybe it's my untrained eye but I'd venture to say that it was more luck that they hit than anything (that gregor especially). Also this match especially I noticed when eliza threw out head axes you would block and then do nothing, presumably because a whiffed throw would mean a CH so I definitely understand not risking throw, but remember you can snap sekhmet as well and get a full combo off of it.

    G3: You started really agressively but as soon as parasoul got a hit on you you basically went into "block and call beat extend" for the rest of the match (with the exception of a little bit of IAD pressure until you got airthrown). Not a lot to say, he never really fell for the beat extend and by the time you're down to 3v2 ratio big band against parasoul/eliza the game is basically done.

    G4: That was a ballsy as hell start against that team lmao, I wouldn't recommend it. Dropping the (what I assume was a) tag combo was really rough of course. I probably would be using beam assist more because it gets a lot of damage on eliza assist when he calls it at full screen. Other than that he basically did a really good job of keeping you out with parasoul things.

    Overall advice things:

    Your robo neutral is I would go as far as to say 90% jump forward, block and call beat extend. He was spaced well enough that it never really got you anything other than damage on bigband at best and happy birthdayed at worst. Of course I don't play robo so I can't tell you things to do but you have to find something. Against parasoul I wouldn't rush her down (at least initially) with robo because I think you have a better zoning game than her and can get heads with relative ease it would seem. Stalling for hidden missiles and engaging behind that might be a good strategy? I dunno, you did a thing in game 1 where you tried to engage behind RAM and it almost worked but you got biked, I think it could still be something worth trying.

    Stuff I agree with Dime on: Nuewt definitely liked to block low for first hit and upback in reaction to a jumpin from a sufficient distance, and he was definitely playing more of a zoning game (which is the best option against filia and big band so it's not really surprising). I would say you went for low resets much more frequently than you should have when he was basically guessing low on the reset every time. Filia can get a good amount of ground throw meterlessly and I would definitely say mix that in more. Again he liked to upback at midscreen-ish and he would pushblock you so dashup throw/throw after blockstring wasn't working at all but I would have done reset into throw much more often. The stuff fenster was saying before about low-low and low-throw stagger pressure I think would have definitely been good here, especially the low-low I think.

    Resetting in the air isn't something I would say is as big of a thing to work on at least in this matchup as the other things, but it's a good idea. Eliza's ground reversal is only hit invuln and whiffs if you're doing IAD overhead, and pillar is actually reasonably easy to safejump with j.mp (you might already know that because I noticed you going for IAD j.mp pressure on para a lot) so ground resets aren't AWFUL against them, but like dime said they can't double jump so air resets are pretty free against them.

    Stuff I disagree with Dime on: I would HIGHLY disagree with him saying "play less of a grounded game", Filia has no way to approach parasoul in the air that doesn't get stuffed. At fullscreen yeah you can superjump and approach some distance but as soon as you're in range of para jump forward j.lp/j.hp the air is no longer safe for you. I would say use beam to countercall his whiffed eliza assist, and also cover a ground approach. If he's using the projectile blocking egret he can't throw tears.
     
    Yomabuddy and fenster like this.
  28. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Yo cheers homie. Yeah I failed to really get him to not block low on the first reset every time and played kind of predictably. I still don't really have a great bead on where to play the match, since playing outside of axe my head range kind of gets me not really a whole lot. I should use beam to counter call and it would be really good at that spacing since sekhmet eats the whole beam, but I need to study it more like whether Parasoul gets hit when she does certain things with axe your head assist or not, learning to react to whether sekhmet came out or not so going in from the beam would be free right now or not, stuff like that.

    I think changing points for this match definitely helps though, and since I do believe Robo has kind of an advantage against Para, once I get not stupid I think I should really stick to that match more, though playing Filia point in that match helps me understand my spacing and how to play there better, which is never a bad thing.

    ------------

    Played another set vs Nuewt yesterday and like I said before, the super jump and j.HK to L Beam helps deal with ae your head assist by basically RF not being there at all and so he has to respect my ability to attack from such an angle and height that his team is not fully equipped to cover (though Para can do plenty against that anyway). Things I did notice were that my confirm skills are still not what I'd like them to be. I almost always autopilot low strings with RF and BB (c.LK s.MP and c.LK c.MP respectively) where I think they're solid 1 hit confirms, though certainly not on the ease of say 3S Chun c.MK xx SA2. Using 1 hit pokes is not only useful for mixups but is safe against people who like to block and call DP assist, so if I do c.LK alone I don't get scooped unless it was a really early DP assist call.

    Also I don't practice other conversions like RF and BB throw and air throw combos so I keep dropping them, which is bad.

    I should upload the set vs Nuewt from yesterday soon.
     
  29. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    @Pickles

    Agree to disagree :)

    When I state things to certain people I often don't do it to be perfectly correct. I do it so that the person understands what I'm telling them in the strongest way possible.

    When I tell yoma to only do air resets against parasoul, I mean he needs to learn to use air resets against her and others... And should eschew all other resets against her until he has a good foundation of air resets. If I were to blatantly state that though I would come off as even more overbearing than I already come off. Same with not doing grounded stuff against parasoul. It's only a rule of thumb strategy. But I at least feel that he should learn it. Parasoul has all the tools to shut down an IAD happy filia all day long. From her tear shot to her cr.mp to her jump back jhp etc etc etc... Parasoul is a midrange wall against filia if the parasoul is adept at that kind of play. What tools does filia have to combat this? She can hairball or sweep under parasouls tear shots and pokes... But it's unsafe. So that's just kinda bad game... Has to be done... But steps should be taken to do safer offensive things IMHO. That's why I said to use super jump lk airball and stuff like that to move around. Of course I don't mean to ONLY do that, but I said it in a hyperbolic way so that yoma will actually make a concerted effort to try and find alternative means of movement... I also tried to leave it vague so that he would have to figure out some things himself which would allow him to use his Gray matter to form his own conclusions and thus form better mastery than simply being told by someone. Yoma is hardheaded. At least he is with me... So other methods of persuasion need to be used (no offense to you yoma, I'm hard headed to :)


    Anyways, that's a good call on the tick throws. I actually meant to say something like as well but it slipped my mind. Nuewts defense is pretty good and to get around that a lot of times you need a REALLY good mixup and low/throw mixup from tick throws is the primary way to beat people who show excessively good blocking skills.
     
    Yomabuddy and Pickles like this.
  30. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    Different people will have different opinions and I respect that, but I do want to point one thing out:

    Sweep into ringlet is a really cool thing that I hadn't seen used before against parasoul, I'd been playing with ringlet to low profile shots but sweep to get ground is nice. The reason I quote your line about it being unsafe however is because Parasoul is one of the (if not the only?) character in the game unable to punish ringlet spike. Spike is -7 on block, and since the vast majority of the cast has a 6f normal as their fastest it's a 1f punish so you never see it online, but it is definitely possible. However, Parasoul has nothing faster than 7f and so sweep is a pretty good way to approach. You can do sweep into: psych if they try do something that would beat out spike, spike if you're next to them that will end up being a frame trap at best and safe at worst, and updo into gregor if they try to pillar or something tricky. It's a cool approach I hadn't thought of and I'm probably stealing it :^)
     
    Yomabuddy and Dime like this.
  31. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    One question. Do aus parasoul know to use tear toss? This will determine your filia matchup immensely if not already
     
  32. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    No we don't but I'm re picking up parasoul and I plan to study woofly games to try and get it down. Whenever I've tried in the past it just doesn't seem to work out well. The lag out here in au kinda prevents most of us from doing technical shit like getting dashes out on the first frame and stuff... So trying to punish anti zoning stuff can be a bit of a chore if done reactively... So we have to guess and that lowers our overall skill level... But yeah woofly has some of the same issues I would guess and he still does it so...yeah need to up that game apparently.
     
  33. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Ok. Just letting you know. As a parasoul and a very good filia player i'll try to give a rundown.

    Filia must know that all of her normals are shit compared to soul. Everyone knows that.

    As long as soul has a projectile out on the screen filia will have to respect it due to it being an extended hitbox and its hitstun turns parasoul's defensive measures into an offensive one. It could be just from j.hp, j.lp or c.mp normal detonations. Wavedashing wont accomplish much because tears will keep you place. And if soul reads you trying to c.hk xx ringlet you pretty much dies. Infact she wants you to be in a committed state like that.

    My main suggestion is vary your air apporach. You dont always have to iad since thats a comitted movement in this game.

    Use j.mp and the fastfall properties. Be a bit more confident in using assist as you use j.lk j.hk. i already know why you do what you did in the video since people like to upback. But your thing is to train him to block low then go overhead and in many of the games he got hit by iad j.lk. be more confident in your filia.

    You can vary by super jump l air ball and do w.e

    You can call assist like h beam and do tk air ball and you get in easier. The goal is to keep soul preoccupied so she cant prepare for your approach and since this is a team game you have more than enough to accomplish that goal. Ya feel me?
     
    Yomabuddy and Pickles like this.
  34. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Reminder to self that assists don't cause preblock, so I should react to assists like BE and AXE YOUR HEAD with upback if I can't just get out of the way to remove almost all blockstun that the assist may cause.

    IF ONLY I COULD PLAY OTHER PEOPLE ONLINE THOUGH.

    GIVE ME BACK MY INTERNET YOU FILTHY AUSSIES.
     
  35. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So I got my internet back for a bit vs Nuewt (can't play CM because lmao ping pls VODAFONE WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING) and played his Pea/Eliza. His team still needs a bit of work since my solo BB was doing pretty aight vs that team and my solo BB is laughably horrid just like the rest of my everything in all FG's ever ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Man chicken blocking AXE YOUR HEAD is like so gdlk I feel like a white girl at starbucks since I can't even. I'm like ok eliza I checked my dome now Imma just jab to launch you so you're in the air, get up and then 4 second lockout so GREAT, takes the assist out of the field for such a long time. I need to improve on imposing my will when I do have my opponent's assists on lockout, though - I tend to want to turtle back still when I punish assists, which is like why did you even want to punish the assist then you fool.

    Nuewt's putting in hella work and getting actually really good, which I'm super proud of and happy for, but it also puts me in a reality check like "Yo Yoma when you gonna git gud" then I'm like "IDK like never ;_;"

    Feel like I'm just wasting the time of everyone who's like "Yoma do me proud and git gud" since me and git gud are like oil and water. Doesn't help that I can't get my butt destroyed by playing better players because GOD DAMN IT VODAFONE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY INTERNET so I can't really assess my play and fix my mental weaknesses, but then again it won't do me good because I'm a hardheaded masochistic dunce, as well as the fact that I don't play "THE GREATEST FIGHTING GAME EVER STREET FIGHTER 4 :^)" or Smash (I'd actually like to learn Melee at some point but lmao I'm never getting the stuff needed to play Melee ever because it costs money) so I basically have like no one to play offline for the games that I do enjoy.

    aaaAAAaaa what's the point, just sit on the internet and spew stupid, unfunny memes, that's what everyone else on the internet does.
     
    gllt likes this.
  36. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    hi, i propose we challenge the odds and fate and try to play a set. i know this sounds dumb, but once in a while, i get strangely good connections to odd places on the face of this earth, and I think it has to do with being located in Alabama in the US.

    I give that as a reason, but that's not an actual reason, it's more like a magic reason. Me being in Alabama doesn't explain solid connections to west coast, east coast, japan, some EU, and sometimes brazil. Maybe it's karma for living in what is essentially bizarro-land. Or, well, bizarro land's cousin. Hi Florida. You're fuckin' weird. Just weird though. Not horrible.

    So, yeah, FIGHT ME YOMA or say the lag is really bad and we can just theory talk instead.
     
    Yomabuddy likes this.
  37. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I've randomly had playable connections against the east coast...probably people that know how to adjust their goddamn delay based on ping but I digress... It's possible to get playable games at around 350 ms and below depending on connection and delay times. Dean played a set against taluda once iirc, and CM played a set against Hilary. But it isn't the norm and not something to be done on the regular and comes with its hindrances... I played a set against a west oats player that was absolutely terrible as an example. But one can always try... SG NetCode is like the Bermuda Triangle. Sometimes weird shit happens.
     
    gllt likes this.
  38. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    I also just think I'm blessed/cursed. I get a solid connection to my friend in Israel in King of Fighters XIII.

    Unnatural.
     
    Dime likes this.
  39. Shuffleupagus

    Shuffleupagus Member

    Location:
    Western Australia
    Steam:
    shuffleupagus
    PSN:
    Calm_Index
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Big Band
    It's okay, Yoma, you and I can stay forever intermediate players with loads of potential, but never really git gud. We could just pull the lag card or complain about mechanics when we lose games instead of actually getting good and then when people question our legitematy of fighting skill we can just bulldust some theory fighter stuff.
     
    gllt, Yomabuddy and Dime like this.
  40. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Lag and shitty mechanics are the best option selects in the world. And any good FG player knows to abuse option selects and shitty mechanics as best as possible :)
     

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