From scrub to not scrub in dunno when

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by Yomabuddy, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    It's not just SG, his connection to me in Melty and Fightcade is also fucked. His connection to me used to be Not Fucked but now it is Fucked so ?????? straya
     
  2. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Definitely straya, definitely.
     
  3. Shuffleupagus

    Shuffleupagus Member

    Location:
    Western Australia
    Steam:
    shuffleupagus
    PSN:
    Calm_Index
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Big Band
    Fresh from SGOCE:

    ss (2015-09-07 at 05.50.25).png
     
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  4. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I hate all of you.
     
  5. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Can't say I've never done that... Or never caught others doing it.. But still awesome :)
     
  6. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played vs Nuewt for about 10 games again. GOD DAMN IT VODAFONE WHAT ARE YOU DOING.

    Nuewt's now playing Parasoul/Beowulf/Eliza with L Tear Shot/H Chair/AXE YOUR HEAD. This is a big problem for me because chair assist fills all the spots I felt safe in before as Robo-Fortune against Parasoul/AXEYOURHEAD

    Before the stage looked to me like this: P1030573.JPG

    Now it looks like this: P1030574.JPG

    Shut up everyone my art is gdlk.

    I don't have quite as great of an understanding of whether to snap, and if so then who. Before I had the mentality of "Get a hit, take him to the corner, then snap in Eliza because lol Eliza can't block and no DP assist." Now there's Beowulf with the stupidest of grins as he throws his chair in my face and I have to actually consider that defensive tool somewhat. However I should be able to avoid this by resetting him in the air so that's not too big of a deal, but now I have to be careful when next to him as he could call a DP assist and ruin my day.

    My first thoughts are that I should look to use more M Beam + FI to clear the screen of existing tears and get a hitbox out that he has to respect. I don't know if there's any other air space that I can attempt to access relatively safely at this point.



    I also need to work more on doing smaller combos into head gains in order to gain as many heads as possible, especially for when Beo and Eliza comes out from his team. Against Parasoul I don't feel like I can sit back and use head attacks, and should rather rush her down and push her to the corner as soon as possible. I'm rusty as hell D:



    Fuck this game, where's Melty Blood?
     
  7. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Yoma, after he calls chair, he can't again for AGES. So yes he can control most of the screen but not all of it at the same time, think of it like Peacock's item/plane except you have a much much much much much longer window of cooldown due to Beo's chair.
     
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  8. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Holy shit yoma charts!!!!


    Anywho it's easy yoma:


    Drop BE L assist against his team and go H brass. Change from whatever Filia assist you have into H updo... Profit. Use h brass to counter call his assists or to blast through para zoning. Call h brass then superjump crossup with jhk etc etc etc


    Don't just go BE L in every matchup. I switch to H brass against peacock because fuck peacock.

    Call h brass then superjump and 3 jhk... Etc etc

    If you want to snap then snap in beo once he's used chair assist. Beo will come in chairless and take more chip and doesn't have h chair toss to reversal with so he will have to reversal to arm to bikes for safe dhc and down 2 meters.

    And yeah chair recovers really slow so you can try to pressure between that.

    When he blocks h brass be ready to layeth the woop ass if he tries to, punish your assist.


    A good strategy is to try and play it like its 1v1 and save brass for assist counters..
    Brass does a metric fuckton of damage to assists and if you beam the assist as well he will be hurtin. And won't want to spam assists as much. Brass is the anti spam move. It's a really big "no" remember this is a team game and his assists are just as fair game as anything else. Force him to protect his assists via not calling them at neutral or covering them... Either way you get counter play.





    Also... Need more charts, definitely need more charts.
     
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  9. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    I need you to make me some charts
     
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  10. Shuffleupagus

    Shuffleupagus Member

    Location:
    Western Australia
    Steam:
    shuffleupagus
    PSN:
    Calm_Index
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Big Band
    Don't worry, Yoma, we'll call your name and save you from the dark.
     
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  11. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played vs Tomo with Robo/Beo/Eliza with H Beam/H Chair/Axe your head (not this assist combination again D: )

    This time I played Filia/Robo/BigBand with H Hairball/s.HP/H Brass. I couldn't bring myself to pick that team at round start because no H Beam or L Extend D: but this actually helped immensely to deal with the H Chair and Axe your head relatively easily as countercalls.

    Not going to draw a diagram right now since I'm kind of in a hurry.

    I've never played a Filia/armoured assist for up close pressure before but Robo s.HP is actually pretty decent lockdown (partially because I don't have anything better for my team ayy lmao) especially vs Tomo's assists since both H Chair and Axe your head hit once so Robo s.HP can deal with that pretty easily up close. Once I get better at that, this might be a counterpick team that can actually be really good against characters Robo-Fortune can't keep out as well or who want to stay further than where Robo-Fortune would like to stay.

    s.HP also allows for OTG less throw combos for Filia in the corner universally, which allows for raw tag combos to Robo-Fortune and slightly more damage than Filia's own corner combo (then again since I'm running H Brass I might be able to get more damage). Also it helps me keep Filia in via DHC's if I want to keep Filia in (eg I can do combo to raw tag RF, end with beam super then DHC to Filia, and have very little recovery and actually set up incoming mixups compared to raw tagging Filia in and let the opponent come in as she's checking her cuffs.

    This team is actually very similar to Justin Wong's MVC3 team in terms of general gameplay philosophy I feel like (he plays Wolv/Storm/Akuma, Wolv/Tatsu is pretty good at keeping pressure once he gets in, and his general idea of play is to hit the opponent before he does and tear apart their team, which is pretty similar to my general philosophy with this team), or Yipes' MSP playstyle, even if the assists aren't similar.

    A huge problem comes when tomo gets rid of my Filia and Robo-Fortune before I get rid of his Robo-Fortune because Robo vs BB is such a horrid match where I have barely any hope to try and catch Robo as BB, especially if she's doing super jump j.HK L Beam from the top of the screen, and when that's paired up with H Chair, it's kind of tough to deal with. I really have to learn to try to deal with this situation and what I should even be trying to do that isn't just super YOLO, but then again bad matchups aren't won by playing safe but with calculated risks so... yeah lmao.

    EDIT: ALSO HOLY SHIT WHY DOES FILIA RAW TAG HAVE SUCH HORRID SYNERGY WITH ROBO-FORTUNE. I really want to find combos/doublesnap situations where I can get Filia in to do her thing if I have Robo-Fortune on point, but I really can't seem to find ways to do so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
  12. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    St.hp for robo and then raw tag to Filia doesn't work? I was pretty sure it worked for pw tag... But maybe not.


    Also why hairball instead of updo? With hairball your team has 2 horizontal assist and no real AA... H brass is a poor excuse for AA.

    That st.hp for robo assist sounds legit. I was thinking of using h special move thingy for lockdown, but what you said about armor is way better so definitely stick with that. The cool thing about robo and certain other characters is how many good situational assists they can give you. Robo has a ton of decent assists to choose from. Just like BB and Bella, Eliza and Fukua.
     
  13. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Your lack of DP assist made my j.HK movement pretty free. I kept super jump j.HKing above you then mixing how I would fall down and you seemed to be really struggling. You only even managed to Filia 5HP me once?

    I didn't feel very threatened by Robo HP assist to be honest, it allowed me to run away from Filia pretty effectively. It locks me down decently long but hey PBAG.

    The Brass assist was definitely frustrating and locked me out a lot, you were a little too ballsy sometimes up close with it though when I called Axe Your Head.

    I think you should at least run Updo on Filia and H Beam on Robo with this team.

    EDIT: Alternatively run your Robo point team against me, if you use Brass, use Updo with Filia, if you use Extend, Hairball with Filia
     
  14. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Not in the corner, for both PW and FI. Midscreen it does work and for PW it's gdlk since her raw tag is so gud but for FI it's whatever since knockdown and no real tech chasing.

    Because:
    1) Ideally none of the other two characters should come out to play, so Filia assist shouldn't really matter.
    2) I was thinking that in the event that Robo was forced in to play via snaps, and she got out of pressure, Hairball would be good to start zoning again, but now I've realised that it sucks for two purposes: one that I wouldn't really want to call it since I want Filia to be as healthy as possible and two that I already have brass for zoning so I shouldn't want it as much, and three, since I don't have a defensive assist with Robo anymore, snapping in Robo and killing her would be really easy.
    So now I'm thinking of using Updo to defend myself or dash for AC purposes since RF doesn't have a functional PBGC reversal anyway, so if I feel really pressured I can pushblock alpha counter Filia in safely. IDK it's all weird. tldr I'm looking to swap it out anyway.

    Ya it's kind of nuts, considering my main combination is meant to be much more neutral (RF/FI/BB) and can just chill and not feel like going in if I don't want to (provided the matchup allows for it), and I also have this ultra rushdown variant. This team really is super varied and I really like that.

    Both of those I can directly attribute to not enough experience tbh. The super jump j.HK I'm not as worried by since you're giving up space and not really threatening me with a lot (I mean I can take plenty of L Beams from the air but if I get in once you can't block, provided my lockdown gets better with that assist). The s.HP is an option I have to just get used to (which I wasn't doing earlier cuz I r stoopid), and once I train you to not hit buttons on the way down I can mix up with a cross up s.HP as a 3S style anti air. Also we've talked about this before but against Robo I'm not really concerned about PBAG, since you don't really have an effective PBGC so I can just wait for you to get out of blockstun and mix you up. All I want from my lockdown assist is to keep you in place while I move in, which RF s.HP does for me.

    Also none of my DP assists (neither Updo nor BE) can really catch a super jump j.HK'ing Robo that well, unless I'm very close to you.

    RF mirrors are the worst thing since black death, not going to happen.



    EDIT: Also chipping away here and there at some optimisations with my team, but I'm not too concerned about that for the time being. I just have to improve my pressure and neutral (and also learning to PBAG more consistently since sometimes I got caught by doing 1PP~4 and thinking I did 4PP so I hold 1 for PBAG but got blown up)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
  15. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    someone pls fix cm's internet so we can play not laggy girls. Literally everyone's connection is back to fine now except his.

    s t r a y a b o y s

    That being said, I did get some games in with him today. He's switched from Val/PW/BB to Val/EL/BB, because apparently the first team wasn't cheap enough :^)

    Even though the post hit flowchart is much easier now ("I'll get a hit then snap BB in since he doesn't have a safe reversal anymore" or "I'll get a hit then snap EL in since she won't have level 3 early so I can rek her for free"; actually I'm not so sure, that would probably depend on which of his other two characters he's worse at), it's way harder to try to open him up with that new team.

    Before, his team looked like this P1030579.JPG
    and I could afford to stay closer. Now it looks like this P1030578.JPG
    and because the safer space is further away, even if I counter call, it's pretty hard to try to catch him, since he's further away and has better chances of running away till his assist comes back.

    (side note it's probably better to get screen caps of the game and draw boxes on them in Paint or something but this is more fun and gets more likes and my life is dictated by how many likes I can get on the internet so yeah)

    Some ways I've thought of dealing with this problem are:
    1) Stay in axe's range but not in BE's range, manually hit it with s.HP, upback to block the axe as low as I can, then dash in and try to use my assist to get Val to land on the assist, so I'm saving my assist call for when I would need it closer.
    2) Stay in axe's range and preemptively call Beam. Beam's hitboxes will stay on the screen if axe is coming out or eliza is hitting the ground, since axe has startup that isn't the traditional assist startup.

    I'd try this stuff if our connection didn't suck balls though. Why the fuck is this happening.



    Also played vs Nuewt again. Nuewt's started to use more Tear Toss and air Tear Toss in his Parasoul zoning and it's somewhat frustrating to try to get in now, but he has a bad tendency to lose to brass assist so for the time being I'm doing better than he is (our last set went like 10-6 me but then internet was crappy so I alt f4'd). Hopefully he can figure out ways for me to die for using brass like I do.



    Found some more RF/FI stuff, namely dust corner carry combos, but I don't really get to play that team here anymore (unless I play Shuffle or Fruit, in which case I think Bella/Double/BB lose to that team so I'll use that team). RF point in general is starting to get countered with the team composition changes being made, and I'm not really a fan D: but whatever, I'll deal with it.
     
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  16. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    what is your team I thought it was filia/robo/bb but then you said you don't play RF/FI anymore?

    anyway beam is one of the best anti-sekhmet assist tools you have (I think I mentioned this the last time you posted a video of you playing vs an eliza assist team). The stuff you said about it being active as hell and being able to hit during the long sekhmet startup is true, but it's also super good even if it doesn't hit her until the skeleton is already out. Since sekhmet is still affected by "hitstun" hitting her with a beam gives you plenty of time to react and/or reposition your point character. In addition of course beam does loads of damage to the assist, and remember that assist lockout still applies if the assist armors the hit. Eliza assist also has the BB assist problem of sticking around after doing the assist move so especially if you have beam hitting him as sekhmet is going back you can get a happy birthday if his point is hit with the beam too, and if hes just blocking while calling assist and not pressuring then it's whatever. I don't really understand what you mean by your first proposed solution though.

    filia (again i assume we're talking about filia) behind brass actually makes the parasoul matchup a lot more even, it's super good for countercalling (if you don't suck at it like me) and it makes it so he can't do tear stuff for free, so what you have to worry about is the air normals. Which are certainly a threat of course but they're less so if you're good about land canceling. In any case removing her ability to use tears/assists freely is definitely a large benefit for you and I would probably go as far as to say filia/brass vs para/assist is 5-5 (as long as that situation is true, of course if BB ends up point v para then filia assist isn't NEARLY as much of an equalizer)
     
  17. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I meant to say RF/FI as in RF/FI/BB team order. Most of my games here end up being FI/RF/BB with either H Hairball_Dash/H Beam/L Extend or dash/s.HP/H Brass, the first one being my "I'll get rid of the point then zone the rest of the team and I think I'll need H Beam" and the second one being "I'll tear through the whole team and I need the armoured assists".

    That first solution is:

    Also yeah I need to practice land cancelling Para stuff. For countercalling I usually just try to see with peripheral vision when an assist is coming and then hit the assist button. Against H Chair and Sekhmet assists you have a lot of time to get the countercall.

    Also ya BB vs Para is just sad times :(



    Why am I thinking about this game this game is not Melty Blood I want to play more Melty Blood sign me the fuck up for some Melty Blood I want to get better at Melty Blood
     
  18. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Yep, told you brass would be his undoing. It counters his playstyle. Now its time for him to adjust and bring a higher level of skill to the game which will level you both up.
     
  19. Shuffleupagus

    Shuffleupagus Member

    Location:
    Western Australia
    Steam:
    shuffleupagus
    PSN:
    Calm_Index
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Big Band
    Trigger warning (open)
    [​IMG]
    I made this for you, Yoma. Hope you like it.
     
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  20. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    ty shuffle luv u bby



    Something I've wanted to post about for a long time regarding something I see done pretty terribly across the board - team building. Most teams I see are just "I like this character/these characters and wanted to slap a good assist on them and so here's my team look it's so purrdy it does 10k for 6 meters on a cornered big band j.HK starter", and while that's certainly feasible for lower and mid level play, for high level play, or rather, for people trying to get to a high level of play, I don't think that sort of team construction is any good. So here's how I try to make my teams. It may or may not be useful to some people in which case I'm glad I could help, or I might sound condescending (I probably will) and so people will react with, "pls don't hurt my feels qq," in which case I honestly couldn't care less.

    The basic ideas behind it to me are:
    1) Think of an overall game plan you want to execute throughout a match, whether this may be space control, pushing the opponent to the corner, building meter for a specific scenario, etc.
    2) Think about the order of the two/three or more characters you play that help you execute that game plan the best way possible.
    Once you have that, and people play you, you'll inevitably come across problems in terms of the opponent's team construction or their game plan that you have to figure out how to beat. Trying to figure out counters comes on a team by team basis, some teams can do it in some situations without having to change team order or assists, and sometimes you'll need to do either one or the other or both.
    As you play more you'll come to realise whether or not that original gameplan is useful, and if so, if your approach towards that is the best approach or not.

    What I basically want to put out there is that most teams seem to not be constructed with a general gameplan in mind, and going forward this should be a big focus for most players.

    Another thing that comes to mind regarding team orders is snapbacks and how useful they are. Against teams that aren't as well constructed, there's often no reason to waste meter on snapbacks, but against well constructed teams they are of utmost importance. Prime candidates of who to snap in are:
    1) characters whose assists you find difficult to deal with
    2) characters with safe DHC's
    Cases can also be made for teams where 1->2 is a good team order but 2->1 is terrible, so you'd want to snap in 2 to force the opponent into playing a worse order.



    IDK thinking and formulating game plans is hard let's all just meme like scrubs
     
  21. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Notes after today's set with Nuewt:
    1) He jumps out of the corner a hefty bunch after he push blocks me out. I need to be more prepared to punish that. After he pushblocks me I can call RF s.HP and just wait for him to jump out, where I can s.HP him relatively safely, and he doesn't want to swing because RF is right there ready to armour him.
    2) I really need to study nuewt's keepout habits and try to find how I should get in against that.
    3) I get really predictable with IAD j.HP when I want to maintain pressure, where I just get rekt. Should try dash block instead.
    4) My RF feels naked when FI dies and I just end up doing a bunch of jump back j.HP and air lasers without any sort of neutral game plan. I don't quite know how to fix that.
    5) He's getting better at not just getting destroyed by brass assist.
    6) I feel like FI/RF/BB dash/s.HP/H Brass is a little too unstable and if I don't get started I'm losing the match pretty hard. If it felt great as a Wolverine team before, it feels shitty as a Wolverine team now.

    In general I just don't quite feel like playing fighting games at the moment - it's the yearly Yoma "I just want to quit" phase I suppose. Then again exams are near.
     
  22. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Watching Skullgirls has been really frustrating the past few weeks compared to other fighting games like KOF13, Marvel 3 and 3S because in the latter three I can see that there's a definitive high level where players are making reads and micro as well as macro decisions in the neutral game and are generally displaying a level of skill that I can definitively say is "high level", whereas with any Skullgirls video that isn't a set between Dekillsage and Sonicfox I just don't feel like I see it; maybe people either don't know it or just simply don't care. It's frustrating because it makes me doubt whether that high level actually exists ("if it was there I'd see it!"), though I know that it is there because I have faith in it and because CM keeps yelling at me that it is there and I'm not pushing myself enough to get there myself instead of just looking at other players to reach it for me with my characters instead so I can steal their strategies. I don't even know why I feel this, but it's just frustrating to feel this, especially for a game that I've put a lot of time into as far as playing, theorycrafting and helping others goes.
     
  23. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Lol... You and cm...


    I've played the Cali players as well as swiftfoxdash, yourself and cm. one of the things I think personally holds you back is you thinking that "high level" is "high execution" it certainly isn't.

    Just because you don't see one hit hit confirms and lots of autoguard doesn't mean that high level isn't being displayed. I can watch MANY SG vids and see high level mindgames, spacing and move choices. I think the reason why you can't yet see them is because you simply aren't high level yet.

    Concentrate more on spacing and less on execution. Then you will start to see.
     
  24. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    The only aspects of the game Yoma mentioned was spacing & neutral game decisions.
     
  25. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    Dont matter. Yoma says spacing, yoma "means" execution... Its how he thinks. That tekken frame fighter background warps his ability to see spacial considerations over executional and reactive considerations.
     
  26. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    There is spacing in Tekken
     
  27. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    There are only frames in tekken. Thought you knew.
     
  28. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    well I don't know about the newest ones, but movement is like, pretty important from memory. Whiff punishing all day
     
  29. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    You're literally assuming what I didn't even say (and are even saying that you are). Are you for real?

    I didn't say execution at all. I don't care if people are doing super fast reaction stuff or are pulling off 50,000 hit infinite combos or are doing super sick option selects that let them block everything on defense, although those are indeed things that are pretty fun to watch. Spacing and people positioning themselves is way cooler to me. People in KOF13 move themselves at the right spot for perfect anti air ranges constantly, and it's all amazing. People in SG for the most part don't even take into consideration the opponent's options (again, outside of a few very good players such as Sage and Sonic) and aren't optimising the use of system mechanics in neutral. In KOF for instance, landing recovery anti airs are a huge thing and top players constantly get them. The equivalent of SG would probably be whiff punishing assists with launchers and jump cancelling them, and I find it extremely rare to see people spacing themselves so as to use that consistently. I'm not saying I'm gdlk and I do this all the time - I don't, and it's something I'd like to improve upon - but there are so many people who proclaim that they're really good at SG that don't do this that it kind of blows my mind.

    Show Spoiler
    I'm not even going to bother with the argument that Tekken is only frames. Watching any high level Tekken match should dispel that instantly.
     
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  30. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Lol... I guess much is missed in print. Though it really is obvious that I'm being at least a bit facetious. As far as people not using land cancels much in SG... It's more than likely because assists tend to skew things. As well as ability to fly and change landing timings for EVERY character....................

    As far as whiff punishing assists with launchers into jump block... Anything done predictably is counterable. Personally I don't look to punish assists like that UNLESS my opponent gives me a REALLY good reason to. From what I've seen, most players don't give that actual reason to be punishing their assists like that. It really isn't worth it to get yourself confirmed into a reset into dead just because you punished an assist. Having said that, of course it is pertinent to do it sometimes. But never as an all day thing unless the opponent is really that bad or has a strat that allows for it.

    And of course tekken isn't all frames. Obvious.... Very obvious, even before the obvious use of it as a rebuttal. Which is why I replied in the "jump on the grenade" fashion, double down on the dumb. I reply to inane things with inane things.

    Unfortunately I think you missed much of my point in the first post.
     
  31. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    You do a lot of "It should have been obvious what I ACTUALLY MEANT was all this shit I didn't actually even come close to saying". It makes it far more difficult than necessary to actually talk to you about anything.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  32. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I think i came very close to saying what i meant. In fact i dont think its a problem with me at all. So.... Yeah gonna drink the rest of these beers. Be back home tomorrow for a decent time... We should get some games.
     
  33. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    >play a good team
    >play like shit because I'm an idiot who doesn't get this game
    >type like a 4chan abomination

    Frustrating as all hell to watch my match videos when I have barely improved from since whenever the fuck I started playing this game. Might as well just post my RF/FI/BB tech stuff and just not play this game anymore in the hopes of someone who actually knows how to play this game and isn't a complete idiot like me can use it and make that team look good.
     
    keninblack likes this.
  34. Shuffleupagus

    Shuffleupagus Member

    Location:
    Western Australia
    Steam:
    shuffleupagus
    PSN:
    Calm_Index
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Big Band
    Correct.
    Incorrect. You've shown you have a solid grasp of this game Yoma. It's just you have other things on your mind. You've proven you know the game and have shown youre not free like a food sample at a store. I dont agree with your self-depreciating perspective since I know youre a good player and im sure others would agree if you asked. You've got a lot of shit to deal with IRL which you need to focus on instead of this kusoge. Just have a break from the game and try and sort yourself out. You know you can always talk to us at OCE.
     
  35. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Shuffle you got me like
    Show Spoiler
    anime_toradora_crying_yasuko.gif




    So after talking to CM about this for a while as well as mulling over it when I'm not crying about how badly I'm going to do at my exams, I've come to the conclusion that RF/FI/BB is just not going to work in the long term and that FI/RF/BB when I'm not a scrublord is more directly potent. RF/FI/BB may have different gameplans according to the matchup but in general FI/RF/BB just works better and there aren't very many matchups where FI/RF/BB loses to a team that RF/FI/BB beats or where the latter does better than the former (Bella teams are the only real teams that come to mind here).

    So I'm now pursuing two teams:
    FI/RF/BB Dash/H Beam/L Extend
    FI/RF/BB Dash/s.HP/H Brass

    The former is a little more neutral based and works better vs aerial teams, and the latter is a bit more rushdown based and does better vs grounded teams.

    To be completely honest, the teams aren't really that strict. With RF I can choose either H Beam or s.HP and with BB I can pick either H Brass or L Extend, but I don't want to have H Beam and H Brass on the same team since that kind of defeats the purpose of picking the different assists (outside of perhaps against very specific teams where I need H Beam for one character but H Brass is also imperative for another character, but I'm sure I can make that work some other way)

    What dash assist allows me is that in the event that RF (or BB) have to block something, I can just not give a fuck and bring in FI via AC. It's completely safe and even allows me punishes sometimes, which is pretty great, especially for RF where if she has to block something she's pretty much fucked (I can argue about how I think this big a penalty for RF is a little too much but game's not getting updated so I'll leave my salty tears out of this thread).

    I have to look into more RF/BB synergy to make that team work though, since in the event that FI dies, I would have to play that team and I'm not very good at it. I can't have as much emphasis on calling heads in neutral since I don't have Hairball assist to hold them back while I get heads out but perhaps I can look into it for oki purposes?
     
  36. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    If someone could teach me how to play magneto/beam/extend in a succinct 150 page handbook that'd be great.

    EDIT:

    Robo-Fortune sucks

    This team sucks

    This game sucks

    This life sucks
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
    keninblack and mcpeanuts like this.
  37. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I don't get this game.

    I don't know how to play it.

    All my life I've been taught how to play patiently and wait for my opponent's mistakes and carefully trying to crack them using stage positioning. I can't rush anything.

    That shit don't work.

    I feel like I need to have anything yesterday in order to make myself not die today, and I don't get that mindset at all.

    I just don't get it. It feels like I have to hit all the buttons and not give a fuck about the consequences in order to get something going for myself. I feel like I'm moving like molasses because Filia's and Big Band's movement is way much nothing like Magneto (Big Band not having that makes sense but Filia doesn't). Maybe it's my UMVC3 Magneto fast-as-fuck movement bias coming through but I feel like I can't move fast enough for this game and I don't know whether it's my fault for thinking I can play Magneto or for not having the hands to be able to do so. Robo-Fortune's movement is fast but she's garbage anyway so who gives a shit.

    Maybe I'm thinking this game is something that it isn't and I'm just being a fucking idiot. Maybe it's the Mike Z hitboxes.

    Maybe I'm just being a fucking salty idiot anyway. I don't know how to play this game.

    I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.
     
    keninblack likes this.
  38. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    When you learn that filia is nothing at all like mags. Then you can begin. It would be helpful if there was footage atleast on why you're dying
     
  39. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    You have to take risks in this game, bottom line. At least at the intermediate level. Once you get more advanced then the game becomes safer. But that advancement comes in the form of being able to do really esoteric and hard shit. Such as reacting to assists as they come in (very doable even for me) and preemptively countering them or blocking them.


    Neutral is basically about a lot of things... But a few importances:

    Be faster than your opponent. A flowchart can speed up thinking since it lacks a certain amount of thought. But flowcharts lose to good players and good reads.

    But still, at the end of the day one of the big things that separates good players from great ones is the speed at which they make decisions. In fact that alone could be where you are messing up... Being constantly behind your opponent as far as speed of thought and switching up strategies is concerned.

    You can also slow your opponents thought down by giving them more to look at and is another place where flowcharts can be bad. Flowcharts are good for getting out the correct move quickly, but unless it's a really good flowchart, it can be figured out quickly so your opponent will be able to make fast decisions against it, which is really bad for the flowcharts player since a flowchart is designed to make move selection easier and faster... And it is no longer faster if your opponent can make decisions against it quickly, with also having knowledge of what will you do, to make things even worse.

    This is where being complicated has benefits... Complicated game can confuse the opponent and slow down there thinking, allowing tactics to work that wouldn't necessarily work when your opponent is thinking fast about a few things.

    But complicated game is hard... Very hard. I can't do it. Well I haven't practiced but it's very hard to use complications and then get hit and stick to your gameplan.


    But when you do it decently and well you will notice it messing with your opponents game and them making mistakes they wouldn't usually make.


    In nutshell, try and theory fight up a bunch of patterns/strategies that you can use on the fly with your character to make things messy and convoluted for your opponent to figure out and deal with.


    It's been a loooong time since we played and I can only assume you've gotten better (whereas I haven't for various reasons) but one of the biggest thing I noticed about your play was a level of predictabiliy that was higher than your average SG oce player. This was because of newness I felt. You DEFINITELY had some good stuff and spacings that I didn't want to venture into (such is playing against filia) but you stood at the wrong distances, reacted to spacing mixups to slowly, and tended to press the wrong buttons for the circumstances.


    I felt you had a lot of potential though. I thought you would be very good in under 6 months and hard to beat once you learned stuff.


    Remember though, many of the SG oce players are quite good players.

    CM masters most aspects of a game that are practicable including spacing and various forms of optimization.
    Nuewt has great game sense and timing a pretty decent neutral as well as higher forms of certain option select defenses. He's quite hard to beat IMHO.

    I have great strategy and patterns, but suffer from lower levels of execution, hardcore flowcharting and autopiloting and lack of reactive ability in certain situations.


    Few players in SG oce are easy to beat though. Everyone is of a generally decent to high level of skill in many facets of the game.

    I think the only places we really suffer is in the neutral because we don't have a great neutral player out here, with the exception of maybe CM who may be able to challenge some of the American players...

    A good way to say it is that cams neutral is a practiced good... Like yipes in mvc2. Whereas the typical good American neutral like what sonic fox has, is more natural, like Justin wong.


    At this point in SG it doesn't matter what kind one has, since the game has been out so long, but when new games come out the natural jw style is always a clear winner till the practice/heavy t mode players practice time becomes significant.

    Bla bla. Point being yoma:


    Up your neutral through theory fighter and practice and observation of opponent patterns.
    RF is very hard to use and you might be better off using an easier character. I dropped her because her neutral was to hard for me. She's definitely good but it takes a good player to make her that way.



    IMHO you should be using a mixture of double/bella/filia/BB/val/fukua

    Val is the closest you will get to magneto movement besides Beowulf wolf movement.

    With your spacing not being the greatest, robo will be very hard for you to pickup imho. You should go for more mixup oriented characters like BB on point or filia on point or beo on point.


    And use filias aerial movement options for god sake. Use her instant tk mk airball (or airdash mk airball with brass assist at the same time to protect.


    Learn the difference between filia iAd jhp and filia iAd (wait longest amount of time) jhp.

    The difference in range is huge between the two. Etc etc.
     
  40. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Biggest problems:

    1) Execution. So many times I've wanted to dash but got a fucking standing or crouching jab that I've wanted to quit this game. Can't wavedash for shit and backwards wavedash when I have 3 bars is the scariest shit to try because one slip up and I whiffed a level 3 like a fucking chump.

    2) How the fuck do I impose my will in neutral? This ties into the first one because often I'll get a beam counter call or beam in neutral to get blockstun from them being in the air and I'll try to dash but I'll be sitting there whiffing and chaining jabs, which is infuriating and I want to get a macro for dashes but I play on a 6 button stick so ayy lmao. However it's also related to me not knowing how to open someone up in this game who knows how to call assists and move to avoid Filia, as well as my own shortsighted neutral where I'll think for example, "I'll countercall with beam and then go in" but I've not thought past the idea of what I'll do when I get there. Doesn't help that I'm scared as shit of losing Filia since ayy lmao when a top heavy team's point dies the team is fucked. I really don't like RF/BB or BB/RF shells and think the shell is generally not that good compared to other shells, or maybe it is and I'm just a fucking idiot.

    tldr; I'm a fucking dumbass, FI/RF/BB aka MVC2 Mags with two great assists is hard to play and water is wet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
    keninblack likes this.

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