From scrub to not scrub in dunno when

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by Yomabuddy, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Well yoma, opening people up with filia, or anyone requires a bit of advanced thinking. First step is to start small. With EVERY character your bnb "open this motherfucker up" string should be something along the lines of

    Cr.lk>throw

    You don't have to overthink it at first. From there you wait for your opponent to beat that. How do they beat it? Did they start to tech the throw or jump out? Either answer means next time you do cr.lk>wait>cr.lk confirm and make sure you call an assist as you do the confirm to cover filias unsafe low confirm.

    If your opponent reversals out instead, then your answer is simply to ground or air block then punish them. Most people that say they have trouble opening people up in SG, don't throw enough.

    Another standard filia opening string, one mike z used to abuse all day and good filias still do, is to cr.lk> iad j.lk,j.hk it's a very fast overhead string and also sets up cr.lk>throw.

    And that's about as far as you need to go with filias ground game at first, as far as using good openers.

    Next is what to do against a chicken blocking opponent. That is much harder to stop in general (for most of the cast) when the opponent chicken blocks from far away. But you still have a couple of decent options:


    Run forward dash jump into airthrow. Simple. Or:

    Run forward dash jump j.lp,j.mk to frame trap your opponents air tech attempt or frame trap their air to air attempt. Confirm as per normal.

    The wavedash thing can be corrected by not wave dashing when you have 3 levels, or barring that, just wavedashing slower.


    Dashing on the ground and getting st.lp? Yeah, double dash, don't button dash. Learn when to use both dashes:

    Button dash at neutral and in combos. Double dash when coming out of block or hitstun or when landing or recovering from a move.

    Double dash has a buffer period on it so you can buffer it from blockstun and stuff, button dash does not.

    I personally use button dash for wavedashing and combos only, and double dash for just about everything else.


    Also, just for personal info, parasoul tends to beat filia. Parasouls buttons and specials control filias iad space very well.

    A good answer for filia is to sweep under Parasouls stuff. So you can do things like slide and then cancel into hairball while calling an assist to cover blocked hairball. And then with the right assist you are in. And it's harder in general for parasoul to keep you out... Etc.
     
  2. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Yeah Yoma you suck hmu with a set you've played and I can try and help eventually.

    Btw robofortune isn't bad, you're bad, and you can't play her well if you're bad. (I can't play her either for the same reason)
     
    SmashBlade likes this.
  3. PrettiestMedic

    PrettiestMedic Broken household name, usually said in hostility.

    Location:
    US East
    Steam:
    PrettiestMedic
    PSN:
    PrettiestMedic
    XBL:
    PrettiestMedic (Creative right?)
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    I mean its a game man not like real life
    Just chill and youll probably play better
     
  4. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    @fenster plays robo/band it seems pretty nice, but robo does seem like a very...different? character who takes more getting used to so maybe she is just not the character for you. But like sage said if you have more recent sets that would be good cause I remember last time I watched your stuff your robo was basically downback call beat extend
     
  5. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band


    There's a lot of me bashing my head against the wall in this set. I haven't rewatched it yet myself but I'd like to eventually (though I hate watching this game and watching my play this game), but any advice is welcome.

    Or just tell me I suck, that helps too.
     
  6. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I have to go soon but just some off the top of my head specific things:

    Don't pushblock and then call beat extend assist... That is just bad cause BE wiffs. Bite the bullet and just call BE for defense or just pushblock... Try not to do both or at least call BE first.


    Your filia neutral needs more movement options. Namely the ones I mentioned. Remember to that filias slide breaks assist armor.

    Use more slide, airball, furthest range iad jhp (not just the fastest one) use more drill to trade in your favor with Parasouls shot (specifically, try to bait an obvious parasoul shot out with your drill, just wait at perfect shot distance and drill that shit when you see parasoul move into the spacing to take the bait)

    Don't wavedash so fast, there is no reason to, and the faster you wavedash the harder the execution is and the easier to mess it up.


    Your robo fortune offense needs more throws. I saw you try to open up Nuewt with nothing but double jump like 4 or 5 times in a row. That ain't gonna cut it. Start to use them tick throws. Learn to use meter to get the guaranteed easy conversion, learn to use assist crossup reset mixups after throws since you will always basically have an assist available and since assist crossups are hard to block yet give good damage on hit. Throws are powerful because of the non throw resets you can get off of them.


    Stop trying to "protect" BE assist on every call by calling it with something. A lot of times I saw you do something like jhp plus BE in what can only be thought of as a protection tactic, but it actually waters down BE in the situations you were doing it in.


    In that set for the first couple games at least, Nuewt has this pattern:

    With Eliza and fortune he likes to pushblock into DP... So be aware of that.

    His fortune neutral with shot is basically to call shot and then jump over shot via some form of jump or fiber upper.

    Also, in general you should use filias dp more. Yes it's unsafe, but much of Nuewts offense was as well... Make a read and call that shit out.
     
  7. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Doesn't beat Sekhmet. Just tested it.

    If you mean with Robo then j.HP BE actually allows me to combo after it so I do it for that.

    Where exactly? If you're telling me to just mash harder then I guess I get it but any specific pointers would be useful.
     
  8. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    Oh pooh it doesn't beat sekhmet... Another one of mikes exceptions..sigh. Anyways:


    Use filias dp in spots where your opponent would attack...

    So after you block an assist on the ground, or after blocking a jumpin are good examples especially since jump attack>ground chain is rarely a tight blockstring.

    But you can also call out certain jump patterns with it like if he does iad jhp you can dp that ish on a read. Be creative, try not to allow any of your opponents options to be free.
     
  9. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    If you hate watching this game, then why are you even playing it? lol It's not like you're much better than the current level of play, and maybe if you'd watch Wing play you'd have a better understanding of why Filia J.hp -> j.hp -> j.hp isn't working.


    First of all you're playing Filia, and you constantly back away from the opponent for no reason, it's like you're trying to play Painwheel or Valentine. Even if you do decide to play that way with her, from what I've seen from the first few matches is that you've completely forgotten that ringlet is a move you can throw out at neutral. You can hit confirm it into gregor, I recommend just throwing it out to hit assists and potentially the point.

    Your strategy of call beam from fullscreen and then go in isn't fooling anyone, and you're not going to get many hits that way either. I don't think beam assist is the assist you should be using. Try Ram assist instead, its a lot more suited to what you're trying to do.

    You keep doing IAD j.hp but your assists don't really support this. Anyone who up backs will just punish your attempt at a 2nd j.hp every time for free. You also keep doing IAD j.lk j.hk which also has the same problems. While its fine that you use both, if this is all you do its no wonder you're having problems hitting people. Incorporate this string into your game IAD J.LP J.LK cr.LK
    This string is safer, fast, can be hit confirmed, lets you get a mix up if blocked (On the ground you can do IAD J.hk cross up, your usual iad j.lk j.hk, throw, low etc. In the air you can do air throw, wait low, wait throw, wait overhead etc you get the idea). Also remember that doing a poke -> mix up like overhead/ throw works fine too. You keep doing poke -> wait -> poke -> wait.... just do poke -> fast overhead what are you so afraid of?

    Your robofortune does nothing. You make it so obvious that you're just waiting to call beat extend to try and help you get out of pressure, or that you want j.hp -> beat extend cuz it will get you a combo. Sorry, but that's not going to cut it. Learn how to constantly check people with beams, use j.hk to move around or start pressure. It's good for running away, but its also good for hitting your opponent at weird angles they might not be used too and everything that hits is a free combo. Also pretty much all her moves are + on block except the heavies and cr.mk iirc, so there's that. Hit confirm with st.mp.

    Your RF double snap should be c.mk cr.hp st.lp cr.mk cr.hp repeat. Just make it easy. You can get a head right after.

    beat extend is not just a defensive assist. It can be used on offense too, and in the corner it pulls people out on block. This is good when going for pressure and mix ups. You can also use it at a giant shield for RF so she can get a head out, or you can use it as bait so you can get a beam or super.

    Speaking of beam super, an option your team does have is the ability to punish anything via dhcing to beam. if you see your opponent move or do an attack doing fenrir or w/e -> beam super is a punish, and is an okay way to get Filia out and RF in on your terms.


    As big band, there are times you do j.lk but then don't do j.mk. I don't see the point of not just doing the j.mk unless you're gonna do j.lk -> L symbols or w/e its called.
    There was a game where vs Eliza you did the A-train mix up and then did level 3, wasting all your meter for 50% health. Pretty meh decisions imo to do stuff like that when the ability to punish Eliza air dashing or doing attacks with SSJ is super good, and you can do SSJ -> Taunt so your next combo or A-train -> SSJ or w/e does extra damage.
    You don't hit confirm buttons -> rush punch into SSJ, I don't know why. You don't hit confirm J.lk j.mk into a full combo, idk why. You don't really throw/air throw, idk why.

    Anyways that's pretty much it from the 20minutes I've watched. good luck

    btw... you should really practice what you preach when it comes to PBGC and PBAG. Might help too.
     
    Tomo009, fenster, Mao and 4 others like this.
  10. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    sage really said anything I could have said better but just to add one quick thing, the filia j.lp j.lk string is a really safe double overhead string that's easy to confirm and I highly recommend it as well, but you probably know that at point blank range j.lp whiffs against most of the cast crouching. IAD j.lk j.hk is the overhead string most people use for the overhead mixup at that range but people are now learning that j.hk is punishable by land cancel so if they upback you will be punished for using this overhead option. Luckily winnie found an alternative, by using j.lk j.mp c.lk the j.mp will fastfall your j.lk and not only does that make c.lk combo from j.lk but it is also a blockstring and will hit people trying to upback. It takes some getting used to, even now I think winnie is the only filia regularly doing this (myself included, I haven't got the hang of doing it reliably yet) but if you can do it your overhead mixups will be much stronger and safer.
     
    Dime and Mao like this.
  11. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Ok from watching a good portion of the video here's the main thing i felt from watching you play.

    You got H beam.

    This allows you to M airball + H beam. as long as you call beam first before the opponent calls their assist they have to respect it with filia being on top of them.

    You don't fast fall any of your blockstrings and the worst of all is that your approach is overbearingly predictable.

    you just super jumped airdashed j.hp, iad j.hp for the most part. you never tried j.lp, L airball. you never did j.mp(1 or 2) j.hp(fastfall).

    when you got someone to block you just looked super hesitant like you were checking for a mash when the opponent had no real reason to really mash at most situations. Honestly, the word that comes to mind whenever your filia was out on the field was: Stiff. your movement feels stiff, fixed,etc.

    TK airball is def not a bad tactic if used correctly. you also forgot ringlet as sage said. Ringlet is good. I would definitely work on actual movement as filia alone. cause even with H beam its no good if filia is not mobile enough to make use of it AS her offense and not just neutral-only.
     
  12. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    If you could move like pikmario does here, that would be really good. Pikmarios movement is really ambiguous and ambiguous movement is really good, he doesn't use mk airball like wingzero does so I'll try to find you a vid of wing as well.


     
  13. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played some Val/Filia because CM told me I should do that till I git gud to git gud. Also started playing a tiny bit of Val/Robo/Band. Val is actually really fun and feels like a character I like and Val/Beam is silly.

    However I just don't enjoy the game anymore, so I moved on to Team Scrub, Fukua/Cerebella/Band.

    skullgirls.mp4

    EDIT: Also Robo probably is best second on a team in the grand scheme of things and I think she reks most of the common anchors of the game when played right so she's kind of like Spencer on Nemo's team in UMVC3 I feel like, and I'd like to test that out some day but right now I don't even play this game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  14. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I should probably actually be focusing on 3S/Melty/VF/Tekken since those are the games I can actually play offline and my internet sucks so online is shit, but I just can't stop thinking about this game for whatever reason.

    I was incredibly bored and actually semi-interested in Marvel 3 (and I no joke love 300% games), so I was browsing r/MVC3 and read a line by Merkyl that was really interesting
    It's pretty much basic team games knowledge I think but it's important just to note this for myself so I can look at it over and over and over.

    I don't even know who to really play in this game anymore to be quite honest. Val is fun because I like pixie characters who can just outrange and outmaneuver the opponent and where your own movement skill shines, and Robo I like because she's the character I think I can say I've put the most time into, as far as trying to understand the uses for her tools as a whole and devise gameplans. All other characters are whatever and I don't really have much of an affiliation to them.

    I also watched Josh360 play Marvel 2 and he plays Mag/IM/Sent, which is an extremely potent 200% team where Magneto can get a hit and tag to IronMan and do Ironman infinite and kill the point, then get a guard break on the incoming character and kill them by infinite confirm into DHC Shockwave (I don't know if it kills Sentinel, I do believe it kills Storm, so against MSP it's good), then their anchor is left and that character is usually shit like Cyclops, Psylocke or CapCom so that's irrelevant.

    I feel like in SG you can kind of create similar gameplans, except of course the infinites since you have to actually let the opponent play and reset them (humbug), because especially how team creation is in Oceania, most players have a character (often anchor), that I feel loses pretty badly to Robo, so in my opinion she's a really good end game character for that, and she has beam assist so putting her on a team is like why not lmao. I just don't like how her resets are, where most of the time I need the corner to really make use of her air throw resets, and I don't really like her midscreen resets since I don't feel comfortable with her air left rights and some of her air throw reset stuff doesn't work midscreen since it uses her double jump.

    I have Val/Robo/Band in mind for my team; Val with H Beam is just lmfao, Val and Robo with L Extend are just lmfao, but Big Band against potent teams is just a nightmare, so it's a similarly constructed team to MVC2 MSP or Cable/Sent/CapCom or Storm/Sent/Capcom, where you have two (in my opinion) really good characters and one anchor who left to his own devices is kind of shitty. However I don't really have a gameplan that I think is optimal. Val resets are nice, using L Extend to get vials and save otg so I can get Robo in is nice (though Robo tag into magnet doesn't work on Double and Band midscreen and in general using tag to combo Double and Band doesn't work with Val; Miku Zhi y ;_;), but I just don't understand a way where that just gels with me and I can say, "Aha that's a pretty stupid gameplan." If I play it extremely point heavy like UMVC3 Mag/Doom/Sent, I don't really feel comfortable with it because if Val dies, Robo has no defense lmao and then I'm left to Big Band and against great teams I don't feel like anchor Big Band is really that good (then again in my opinion, the common anchors in this game- Bella, Band, Double, Eliza - are kind of weak against great teams anyway), and I'd like to be able to regenerate Val's red life whenever I get the option to do so, so playing super heavy point I don't quite like. If I play it like MVC2 Mag/IM/Sent, I don't think Robo's mixups are really that great (though if I can guarantee corner carries before I tag into Robo maybe that's good, since Robo's corner stuff is pretty neat to me, though not Painwheel or Filia level).

    Maybe I play Val/Robo/Band and build meter for Robo needing magnets to convert off stuff till I get to their anchor, whom RF will often beat, and then just lame it out from there? I like this a bit since it keeps me away from anchor comebacks since ideal Robo play is amazing at keeping away all the anchors in the game imo so they don't really get to mash reversals and come back against me. However, this feels a little suboptimal to me since if I'm already looking to '200%' the opponent and then rek their anchor, why stop there? Why shouldn't I just push for a '300%' with a rushdown Val team? Sure, liking Robo and liking her support value to my team is a decent reason to put her on my team, but I don't really believe in character loyalty and if I think that there's a better gameplan out there I'd rather take that.

    I hate the fact that there's stuff to explore but at the same time there really isn't too much of variance at a high level (this makes no sense to me either) so I can take pointers as to why stuff works and whether the theories I have are relevant in high level play at all. Most teams seem to be constructed for pure rushdown or for pure zoning with, what at least I feel like, no middle ground. In my experience, from watching both Marvel 2 and 3, creating a team for a character that isn't your point is often pretty much for counterpicks (such as F Champ's Mag/Dorm/Doom to deal with Morrigan teams) or if the non point character has some pretty silly stuff (X-23 dirt nap and Mag/X-23/Dante). While the counterpick option is something I think is cool and real against the team construction ideas in Oceania, the silly stuff like the Mag/IM/Sent 200% gameplan or dirt nap loops don't really exist in SG I feel (overall as a whole I feel like the game really is a little too tame and not broken enough hence why I feel more enamoured with Marvel 3 and their character designs - can't wait for people to troll me or yell at me for saying this).

    tldr I'm a dumbfuck who should probably quit this game anyway.
     
  15. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    ... Well sigh. Last time we played the connection was much better. I observed a bunch of things about you then but Ive forgotten most of them.

    I think one of the things that really stood out was that you seemed to lack a game sense... If that's a thing. Like you seemed to lack the ability to tell what is really good and identify opponent habits and patterns.

    I felt like your filia was good in many ways. I don't like to block high and you took great advantage of that.

    I felt like your movement and your assist calling was subpar to what I've played against mostly. I never really felt afraid of your assists. Wary of them yes, but not afraid. You seemed to put to much value on things that aren't that great. Sorry but I can't remember exactly what those things were.


    Robo resets if you are going to do them can be as simple as just doing low/throw. Sure you have to use meter to convert most of robos ground throws... But so what? It should still be an option that is on the table. Don't just give up on it cause it is a bit expensive, that's damage you aren't getting if you don't make the adjustment. And then I'm near positive that if you do a throw starter or reset then you can combo into BE L and then use that to setup some left/rights.

    What happened to playing Nuewt? Or even chairman? When I went to evo I had only 2 practice partners in AU (one of whom was a peacock player) and I still made it out of pools.


    BB has problems against robo fortune, totally true. And he has that whole being overheaded for free thing, but he's still a very good anchor. If you use him at anchor (or any character at anchor for that matter) the point should be not to use them in the first place. Not because they suck, but because they don't have the advantage of using an assist.

    Being able to play your team in any order is a noble cause. And I fully support it. I can play my team in any order, except maybe band against robo... But I don't really think that having a great team in any order is fully necessary, at least not on a trio team. On a duo it is probably much more of a thing you would want to be able to do.
     
  16. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    New team woohoo /s

    Maybe I will stick to this team?

    Maybe I will play this game?

    MF/RF/BB
    Dash/H Beam/L Extend

    Talking to ClarenceMage about the team (open)

    Yomabuddy
    Also I was giving the idea of RF MF BB with MF dash a serious thought
    ClarenceMage
    yo that's actually some true shit
    Yomabuddy
    MF is, outside of BB the best character when forced to block
    In terms of defensive tools
    ClarenceMage
    a better version of RF/FI/BB if FI is forced onto dash alpha counter duty
    and then
    you get
    headless
    + beam
    +L extend neutral
    oh my god
    Yomabuddy
    5f jab, dp that has to be blocked to bait so you can't be too far and get tagged by jab, air super that leads to combos, double jump, air dash
    ClarenceMage
    The better order might be Ms Fortune/Robo/Band, so that you can DHC into robo fortune to let MF recover red life, then unlocks the alpha counter
    and that way if robo fortune gets rekt
    you have big band with his reversal options PLUS dash AC
    this is solid
    do it
    Yomabuddy
    I mean it is still just theoretical
    Filia was kinda ok at defending withoit meter
    But fortune is the best at it
    Outside of BB
    With parry
    So ye
    ClarenceMage
    ms fortune has more capacity for aerial movement too
    so you'd like her
    Yomabuddy
    Ye
    ClarenceMage
    do it
    fgt
    Yomabuddy
    Ya her runaway is fun too
    Omw
    Also no one plays fortune here so lol
    ClarenceMage
    nuewt picks fortune but lol
    Yomabuddy
    Smoo doesn't count because does he even play sg
    He hasn't played her vs me in forever
    ClarenceMage
    i've seen him playing sg a lot recently
    but smogey is smogey
    Yomabuddy
    Yeah
    But ya that team sounds pretty ok
    ClarenceMage
    it sounds more than pretty ok it sounds top tier to me
    Yomabuddy
    Top tier is ok :^)
    ClarenceMage
    in the order of MF/RO/BB
    to have optimal point neutral
    Yomabuddy
    Just need to check how magnet dhc berserker barrage works
    ClarenceMage
    then post-dhc cleanup mode + defensive :^) options if they get past your neutral
    it's like a really constricting gameplan
    Yomabuddy
    Because magnet dhc has a bounce
    ClarenceMage
    for the opponent to deal with
    Yomabuddy
    Yeah
    It's like
    If you try to hit ne
    Me
    ClarenceMage
    man now I want to try that team
    The big three threats
    Yomabuddy
    I have all the tools to make you second guess your shit
    ClarenceMage
    Val/Eliza/Band, Pea/Robo/Band, MF/Robo/Band
    Yomabuddy
    Band really is the mvc2 sentinel of this game
    ClarenceMage
    yep
    I'm moving MF up to top tier
    Optimised headless + beam + l extend MF
    Yomabuddy
    I don't know if mf really makes a lot of use for l extend specifically though
    Outside of "lol l extend"
    And head on conversions
    Like
    For robo it makes sense since her tools gain more credance
    Like jHP
    And throw
    But mf doesn't really need that as much I feel
    Like with L extend double jHP is a hitbox of death
    But then again with a fast ground dash maybe L Extend gets scarier since spacings you thought were safe aren't safe in a moment's notice
    Idk
    ClarenceMage
    "lol L extend" is always a good starting point
    Yomabuddy
    I just hope magnet dhc csf isn't shit
    ClarenceMage
    because of the exact last thing you said
    Yomabuddy
    Can't check since no laptop
    ClarenceMage
    then what can she do once they're second guessing at L Extend spacing
    Yomabuddy
    What can mf do?
    Like
    Everything lmao
    ClarenceMage
    yep
    Yomabuddy
    Run up c.LK or jab
    IAD j.LK
    ClarenceMage
    only thing she can't do is out-prioritise your normals
    but L EX
    Yomabuddy
    She can out speed them though
    ClarenceMage
    yeah that too
    Yomabuddy
    Her jab is dumb
    Oh yeah mf rf bb is better I see
    Because mf just builds meter like wao
    ClarenceMage
    ye
    Yomabuddy
    [?!]
    So you can like
    ClarenceMage
    strong...
    pucchi...
    [?!]
    Yomabuddy
    Almost build 3 bars
    Before you are forced into a confrontation
    And mid range csf dhc magnet is like
    Actually why do that when you can just tag lol
    ClarenceMage
    because recovers way faster
    Yomabuddy
    At that spacing anyway
    ClarenceMage
    what is the hitbox on magnet anyway?
    Yomabuddy
    Gimme a min
    http://i.imgur.com/SrcoQeB.png
    ClarenceMage
    thats pretty good
    you could use CSF->Magnet as an anti-air dhc
    Yomabuddy
    Oh yeah true
    Since csf has hitstop does csf dhc magnet have hitstop too or is that not how it works
    ClarenceMage
    your opponent can do stuff post-dhc
    Yomabuddy
    Also csf dhc beamu for happy birthday damage is pretty nice I guess
    ClarenceMage
    but whether your opponent CAN do stuff in the air
    is another question
    like wtf is parasoul gonna do vs anti-air dhc
    cancel to air toss
    wau
    Yomabuddy
    [?!]
    But ye
    Maybe this is mag doom sent
    Tbh I don't care for it anymore
    I can't find my mag doom sent
    Because mag doom sent is in marvel 3 and I am not playing marvel 3
    ClarenceMage
    about time you realised that lol
    Yomabuddy
    U rite
    But what I can find is a team I can connect with and understand
    With the characters that I like
    Plus big band
    Like I just need to accept sg for what it is and play it how it should be rather than trying to force my ideals on it I guess
    ClarenceMage
    [Party sticker]
    Yomabuddy
    Not that sticker
    God damn it
    But ye
    Also since I played RF BB against dean to try to understand it
    I don't need a hairball style assist to play rf
    I just need to focus on a mid range style that adapts to the push and pull of momentum
    While it is certainly nice
    And hairball imo is still top 5 assists for robo
    Because of all it does for her
    I feel like I can play without it
    And if I back off and pop a head
    With the threat of BE calls
    Or using him as a meat shield
    I can still get heads out
    ClarenceMage
    excellent
    Yomabuddy
    So it's the 'mag missiles' shell where I can afford another character that isn't a direct assist buff
    But that still adds to my team
    Coupled with my improved neutral reading skills from 3s and understanding of spacing from st
    Can't wait to
    Idk
    Not suck I guess
    The team still has potential issues though, headless on a trio is not omfg because headless damage is kinda eh, but mf by herself has amazing meter build and ok meter dump so who cares
    Though that is like the only issue I can really think of lol
    Maybe if I am a shit with BB calls if he gets snapped he will die before MF AC is possible
    But BB has plenty to avoid incoming death
    Air super, parry
    So that isn't such a massive issue either
    And both MF and RF have good runaway to where they can stall the game and let BB recover
    So like
    What does this team really lack
    I can't think of anything
    ClarenceMage
    I don't think it lacks anything
    It's as well rounded as it possibly could be
    Yomabuddy
    Yeah
    ClarenceMage
    like, it has enough strengths that any potential tradeoffs are like "yeah but I chose not to have this option because I have THIS option instead"
    Yomabuddy
    Yeah
    Also for mf headless damage, I also have good dhc's into rf and bb
    So that fixes that issue too
    Now to get home tomorrow and get back to learning headless
     
  17. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    X/H beam/BE L


    Is always going to to be a good team. It doesn't matter who the X is. All that matters is your X is decent, your robo is decent, and your band doesn't suck.

    If my robo was decent I would have used this team along time ago with pw at the X position. But instead I've settled for double in the h beam spot with H bomber.
     
  18. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Isn't that Jabara's team? Although I think he runs BB second and Robo third but it's the same characters and assists. I didn't read any of that chatlog btw
     
  19. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    So I looked him up since I had no idea who that person is and indeed he(?) plays that team in MF/BB/RF order.
    I don't quite understand the reasons for his choice, I think anchor Robo is wack compared to anchor BB (who is also kinda wack? IDK maybe anchor Robo is better than anchor Band somehow but I don't like anchor Robo at all since she never gets to play on incoming but anchor BB always has something he can use instead of blocking).
    Also either he chooses to let MF die or the people he plays are just really good at not letting MF tag to any other character since his assist choice for MF seems irrelevant in all matches I've played, whereas for me the dash assist is a huge deal since it gives Robo something she can do while blocking besides keep blocking and not die and it's not like MF really has any viable assists aside from Fiber (inb4 people scream cat slide or overhead axe kick is a good assist) but I already have Beat Extend so ayy lmao.

    TLDR of my team choice:
    Fortune point builds HELLA meter and the space control and general runaway is amazing (plus if I get good at headless, headless + H Beam + L Extend is sweatingman.jpg)
    Robo comes in (either after a kill, or if Fortune's life is low, with a far away super DHC Magnet, or if I find the opportunity to get a happy birthday DHC Beam in neutral) with safe (hopefully corner) clean up, backed with some actual defensive options if things don't go as planned.

    Also, while Val is fun and hitting buttons in the air and chucking shurikens is cool, there's already people who play her and since Fortune is a character that rewards a lot of nerding (ie headless) and is kind of the dark horse in the way the game is developing and what characters are being considered top tier, I want to start playing her again. I already have some experience with her so unlike Val I won't be starting from scratch. Fortune also has pretty much the same air movement tools as Val (maybe she has a higher jump? IDK), though she doesn't have an upward airdash, which is actually extremely useful in terms of using super jump double jump airdash button to escape corners and feels like UMVC3 Magneto jump, airdash up, fly, plink dash out of the corner though not as controllable.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Since I'm stickless at the moment I labbed some random stuff and what I found was relatively interesting maybe?

    - DHC Magnet vs DHC Level 1 Beam
    At the end of combos, DHC Magnet does about 304 less damage than DHC Level 1 Beam while giving the opponent less than a third or even a quarter of the meter that level 1 beam does. This is actually stuff I had no idea about; thought DHC Magnet was worthless outside of kewl conversions compared to Beam. Also, since DHC Magnet gives consistent setups compared to DHC Level 1 Beam where the opponent's height for the DHC messes with frame perfect setups, I'll probably be doing more DHC Magnet supers to kill one character. Obviously if I catch two characters I'll be going into beam since magnet doesn't work on more than one character simultaneously. This means I need to find tech chase setups for magnet since I can't

    - Assist + super jump
    ClarenceMage was talking about it a while back but I was lazy and was hating Skullgirls so I didn't mess with it, but if you do 1_2_3+assist, 7_8_9 you can do a super jump and have your assist coming out at the same time. For Robo this is extremely useful since now I can do rising super jump j.HK's without fearing getting hit during j.HK because I'll have Big Band covering me, or with Fortune because super jump + H Beam is kinda really good if they end up below me.

    Give Big Band a Sentinel colour because he's pretty much the Marvel 2 Sentinel of this game (as in he's on every top tier team).
     
  20. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    After magnet you just walk/dash back and depending on the character you get cross up or no crossup. Really good in the corner and also good midscreen because if they tech away from you, Robo's at a safe spot. DHC Magnet is extremely good.

    --------------------------------

    In the open however DHC Magnet as a 'safe' DHC to whiff isn't as good because a lot of characters can reaction punish it, though for most of them it requires meter to really get anything off it in terms of full combos.
    Para can sniper.
    Beo can arm.
    Double can car.
    Peacock can do argus or lenny argus.
    Fukua can fireball super from fullscreen, probably BFF also depending on spacing.
    Valentine can scalpel super.
    Squigly can level 2 sing SBO.
    Big Band can charge between the superflash and H Brass from full screen.
    Robo-Fortune can beam super.

    As far as safe DHC's go it's probably the worst in the game since it's so easy to punish for so many characters (pretty much all of the common point characters can punish it, and if they have a DHC like Fukua BFF, Painwheel Hatred Install, Filia Gregor or even Robo Magnet lol, it's going to hurt a lot and I'm probably going to get Fortune snapped in again and I probably won't have meter to save myself on incoming), however in my opinion those matchups aren't really defined by Fortune runaway so that's not TOO important. This does mean I should look for raw tag combos though with Fortune to Robo. Headless this should be easier with zoom tag or zoom nom tag but head on I don't know how to set up raw tags to Robo.

    --------------------------------

    This team is a lot of fun though. Fortune's low profile run combined with Robo beam covering my approach is amazing to close the gap and get in, and her mobility to stall time while my assists are locked out is amazing too. I've also gotten slightly better at running away as Robo and stalling time. I've come across situations where my Robo's dead and I've got Big Band/Fortune, and I find 'anchor' Big Band a lot easier to play with dash AC now, because now even if I block I still have a reversal :^) and I have a way to capitalise off my passive defense. It's not like Big Band really needs a DP assist. Robo also doesn't make huge use of Fiber in terms of conversions so I'm perfectly fine playing solo Robo and using dash AC to protect myself.
     
  21. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Nobody plays this game anymore in my area who I have not enraging connections with, so I've decided to give up on this game indefinitely. Also it's just not fun anymore. Solo Big Band is the only thing that feels partially enjoyable due to how he kinda works like Q from 3S except slightly better (though he's arguably shafted worse by the system as a whole I feel like). Feels like you have to be fast so you can't really play super patient like Kuroda in 3S but you can't be fast because Big Band is SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW and the game isn't MVC2 fast??? IDK I just don't get it and I don't feel like getting it anymore. Maybe if someone I can play in ok connections shows up I can feel like giving a fuck about this but there's no one like that right now so lol. I can't even pull the "It sucks because I think this game is good" OS lol because I just don't enjoy what the game is and that's accentuated with no scene.
     
  22. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I'm not playing much anymore either. I'm just bored. We have new players in the area that are getting good, but it's still kinda boring. I feel like I've got the entire game figured out, it's just now a "higher skill grind" and while that's interesting, I don't find it captivating.

    Sf5 while being in many ways a very frustrating game, seems harder to figure out on paper so it has captivated my attention for the time being.

    Maybe that is where you should put your focus from now on? It will have a bigger player base and the netcode is decent.

    SG will always be here to come back to as long as you destroy the computer once every couple weeks or so to keep the muscle memory up.
     
  23. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I was going to post my RF/FI/BB tech like one of those MVC2 "How to play team Combofiend" like videos, but I realised I won't be playing this game anyway, so I'll post it without editing instead. IDK if anyone cares or not, but at least I can be sure the tech is documented instead of being in a little notepad that I might lose.

     
  24. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    Uhh can you at least timestamp the points in the video so that it's easily referable? Having a near 2 hour chunk of video is hard to navigate on it's own if you wanted to share a lot of different concepts.
     
  25. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Dang u rite that's a good idea. I'll do that in Two WeeksTM (nah but I have an exam later today, I'll do it after that)

    EDIT: it's done now, added timestamps in the video description. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  26. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    In shocking news, ever since the beta changes started to happen, I've been playing this game a lot more. I really don't like my old RF/FI/BB team anymore since I don't like what happened to Robo (I loved Robo as a damage tank to tag Filia into to let her heal and keep doing safe mixups that didn't take eternity to kill) and though ultimately I think she's a better character, I feel like she's no longer the character I worked on for the better part of 2015 and is now some stupid Canadian's character, so I dropped her and now exclusively play FI/BB (in that order, though I sometimes go point BB to improve on my point BB and anchor FI).

    I messed around with a bunch of characters, such as Fortune, Parasoul, Painwheel, Double, Beowulf and Squigly for a bit to try and have a fresh mindset but realised that they're either too much work to really get good with (Fortune, Parasoul, Painwheel), or don't play the way I want to play (Double, Beowulf, Squigly), which is primarily to rush the shit out of everyone and turn one hit into momentum and victory. Hence Filia's pretty good for that. Also given the state of the game in Oceania, I don't think it'd do me much good to learn a new character when I don't even know if I can play people semi-consistently (though that has changed very recently with Shuffle coming out of retirement and not ducking all the time).

    I've spent a fair bit of time looking into point BB strengths and now think he's super super super good as a point character. Especially offline, where rollback is not going to happen, reaction parry in the middle of movement make him extremely difficult to approach safely. Online this is a little tougher due to rollback making it hard to react to stuff, but that's the nature of the beast so I can't really complain too hard. Parry in my opinion makes matchups such as Double and Painwheel even vs Band, and matchups such as Parasoul (and with the beta changes, Robo-Fortune) are dealable and not totally cancer.

    I've also spent a fair bit of time improving my point Filia game. Since chicken blocking is a strong tactic in SG, and especially vs Filia, I learned to work on ways that lets me approach them and do air strings that let me land before the opponent, so I'm up close and they're about to land, which is a terrifying position to be in vs Filia, especially one backed by L BE. IAD j.LP j.LK, and air to air j.LP j.MP j.MK fastfall are great examples of this, but in some matchups such as vs Valentine and Fortune it feels difficult to get the height right for that, partially because they're double jumping and airdashing and doing air stuff a lot, so I'm not sure how potent that stuff is, but it exists.

    I've also improved my mentality a lot more. Instead of being afraid of scrambles up close, I've gotten better at causing them and coming on top of them (these aren't particularly difficult, I play Filia with Beat Extend lol). I'm also a fair bit more confident in my confirms and my pressure, so in general Skullgirls is more fun for me.

    I don't know if I want to go back to a trio. On one hand, RF/FI/BB was an almost infinitely more flexible team than FI/BB which really only has one gameplan (though is pretty good at that gameplan), but on the other hand, I don't really care that much about any other character and don't feel like putting effort into a new character, especially since I want to play Xrd more since it's more popular around here.

    Recently I played some long sets vs Shuffle and CM.
    43-50 vs Shuffle
    5-21 vs CM

    I remember telling CM that I'd consider myself "good" if I were able to beat shuffle consistently. Going from a point where that felt impossible to it being a very real thing feels great in terms of my general fighting game skill, even if it were almost a year late.
     
    Shuffleupagus likes this.
  27. Icky

    Icky 工 レo√乇 ㄚo∪ ღ ツ

    Location:
    Lonely ole Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Ickybonez
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    I've always believed that he's best on point, and with a lockdown assist. I really really don't like anchor big band. He gets blown up way too easily on incoming, you have to block a bunch of instant overheads and shit, or mash a reversal. Granted, he does have good reversals but when *I'm* playing Skullgirls I feel THE most uncomfortable playing Big band on the defensive, more so than any other situation.
     
  28. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Shuffle uploaded the games I had with CM after I sent him the replays for them. FORTUNATELY, even though the overall set was 5-21 (21 CM), a bunch of the replays desynced and overall it was more like 7 games, 3 of which I won (and CM got Filia'd so that was something), so the set looks more close than it was (which doesn't help my already terrible self esteem and self image). Anyway if someone wants to watch it feel free to do so
    Show Spoiler


    I have noted my issues being
    1) IDK how to deal with PW charged j.HP as FI. I need to learn to air throw it or hit it with an uppercut as the active frames come out.
    2) My anchor BB is still trash. I need to improve at parry in neutral.
    3) EU said to look at Brass as a potential assist, since for the most part I just do it as a countercall to CM's assist calls, so putting him in sliding is really really good for that. Plus if I can protect BB during his recovery (which amounts to blocking dead crosses he throws to hit BB), and since I have the duo damage advantage, Brass doesn't look terrible as it usually does to me.
    4) How to bait PW thresher off a corner incoming without having to block it D:
    5) People think I'm good :V (I have absolutely terrible self esteem so whenever someone tells me I'm good I don't wanna hear that shit, idk if that's really something that annoys people when they talk to me but if it is then I'll try to change it, but idk how to do that without coming off as a cocky bitch)
     
    Shuffleupagus likes this.
  29. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Played offline games with @Chairman Mao yesterday, first with my duo BB/Filia (BB round start vs Peacock is pretty great, Hairball assist makes a bunch of shit safe and Bog Bung damage with duo factor is some shit) then with Robo/Filia/BB. Overall with the duo I went 28-26 my favour and with the trio I went 6-9 (Mao's favour). I could go with the more rational explanation that I don't know how to play Robo anymore (and to be honest I don't really care to learn her anymore either for reasons I've written about already) but I feel like telling myself that the only reason I did well with the duo is because I frauded out Mao with duo damage :V

    Due to the patch that hit right after the games the replays are defunct but hopefully the new replays should be good so I can play games with people and give them to Shuffle so he can record them in 720p. Alternatively I can record me playing the sets as I play them and upload them myself, but I can only really do that in 360p because potato.

    I also love playing while sitting on the ground, old man Marvel style, even though it wasn't good for the health of my jeans :x
     
  30. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Mao knows how to beat the round start unblockable now D:

    Short set, went 7-6 Mao.

    --------------------------

    I might look into playing Robo again because Filia + beam is one of the dumbest things ever, and Robo is still a character I put a lot of time into, even though that time now feels wasted due to a lot of old setups and tech not working anymore so she feels like a new character whose design I feel like I don't agree with.
     
  31. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Playing Filia/Robo/Band again. What do I do in neutral when Filia dies/when I want to help her heal, especially when the opponent has beat extend and I have no heads, is something I have no idea what to do with.
     

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