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Fukua General Discussion

I'm ok with these changes right now, but I need to grind again. No biggie, I love to grind.

Oh yeah.
 
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Wait, I don't have access to the game right now, is the hitstun/blockstun still abysmabad + that change?
 
i wonder why mike doesnt like drill into BFF? fukua is noway the worst offender for getting full combos for spending meter *cough* filia *cough.*

updo is waaaay better as a reversal than drill too.

also dont mistake this for me trying to defend it since i basically never use it.
 
I think it is because you can easily react and make it safe with fireball super on block or full combo with BFF on hit.

Honestly I guess its kinda stupid, but I abuse it and love it. Wouldn't be too sad to see it gone I guess, still get a hard knockdown off fireball super anyway.
 
Is drill punishable like a blocked updo? I thought it was plus on block? Or close to 0 on block? Something like that?
 
Spencer said:
Is drill punishable like a blocked updo? I thought it was plus on block? Or close to 0 on block? Something like that?
Nah HK drill is SUPER unsafe. LK is basically safe, but not HK.

...unless you have a meter.

If you have a meter HK drill is a safe on block invincible full combo starter.
 
HK drill is only strike invinc though, not to throws.

eh. i could take it or leave it really. like i said i dont really use it much.
 
Can Fukua's new air super be an overhead so I can do TK shenanigans on my opponents?? Pweety pulease! :3
 
Tomo009 said:
Nah HK drill is SUPER unsafe.
People have weird definitions of "SUPER unsafe". HK.Drill is -9, which gives Painwheel a 1f window to punish it with jab.
If you Pushblock it and PBGC the punish it becomes easy, but this requirement alone means it's not "SUPER unsafe".

The same PBGC works for H.Drill xx Fireball btw, just causing you to waste a meter. How is this any safer?
 
IsaVulpes said:
People have weird definitions of "SUPER unsafe". HK.Drill is -9, which gives Painwheel a 1f window to punish it with jab.
If you Pushblock it and PBGC the punish it becomes easy, but this requirement alone means it's not "SUPER unsafe".

The same PBGC works for H.Drill xx Fireball btw, just causing you to waste a meter. How is this any safer?

PBGC basically makes everything unsafe...

It is full punishable, even by Painwheel. Even if Painwheel has to throw it to get consistency...

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make, because I kinda said it was stupid anyway.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that Dynamo and Fenrir are super punisheable. The SUPER implies that you can go and make a coffee, come back, and still punish with a jHP.
-9 in a game where the fastest normal is 5f and one poor character is running around with an 8f jab isn't 'super punisheable'. It's as low as it gets while still being punisheable at all by all characters.
If "You can get a jab starter punish on it, as long as you hit a 1f window" is "SUPER unsafe", then what ISN'T?
 
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It moves forward into your block, it can't even really be made safe by spacing. If you use it, you will (should... players depending) be punished.
 
Negus Eyoel said:
1. the command grab nerf seems so random. why is that a thing? i thought it was fine at 4 frames. is that something you'd consider putting back?
Doesn't matter 99% of the time but makes H drill to command grab not a 1f mixup and makes her fastest punish cost meter.

I don't like drill to BFF because I don't want Fukua to have a fast invincible reversal to full combo easily everywhere.
"But Filia can-"
They are not the same character. Filia doesn't have an air fireball, a sliding knockdown, shadows, a divekick, etc. Drill is not -60f on block without meter, either. Get over it. You'll be a better player once you stop comparing characters that way.
 
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Tomo009 said:
It moves forward into your block, it can't even really be made safe by spacing. If you use it, you will (should... players depending) be punished.
You didn't actually answer his question =/ I wanna know the answer to this too:
IsaVulpes said:
If "You can get a jab starter punish on it, as long as you hit a 1f window" is "SUPER unsafe", then what ISN'T?
 
Something that can't be full punished... Like only punishable from certain range, with hitstop supers or by certain characters.

It can be punished in pretty much any situation it is blocked unless the right assist is used, I don't understand why people are arguing against the point.

I like that drill is not cancelable into BFF, sorry.
 
Tomo009 said:
Something that can't be full punished... Like only punishable from certain range, with hitstop supers or by certain characters.

It can be punished in pretty much any situation it is blocked unless the right assist is used, I don't understand why people are arguing against the point.

I like that drill is not cancelable into BFF, sorry.
me too funny enough. but for hilarious reasons i found in training mode
 
I can see what tomo is saying here.

He just said it wrong or didnt explain it correctly as to how he sees it imho.

"Super punishable" to tomo means that the punishable move in question, recovers at or near point blank to the person that wants to punish it.

True a character like pw may not be able to easily jab punish it, but she CAN easily throw punish it iirc. And for characters that arent painwheel, such as fortune... Punishing that move is pretty easy if one spends even 3 minutes in training mode getting the 4-5 frame punish window down.



Tldr

Super punishable has more to do with close range proximity plus opponent knowledge of appropriate counter, to make the punish near 100% consistent by someone informed or who simply has good natural timing.
 
I just meant it is full punishable in every situation.... well with assist no.


The context was that I think HK drill > BFF was kinda stupid for Fukua to have and I don't think people like that. I don't like the fireball changes at all though, still after playing I just don't like it, call it whatever you want.
 
Would downwards drill super being an overhead too much? It isn't invincible, it wouldn't be that fast (I think, there isn't hitstop on that, is there?), wouldn't do much damage too, since it scales heavily and puts you later in the IPS. Just for swag, honestly.

PS: I'm actually somewhat okay with all the rest. Feels like Fukua won't do people's job too much.
 
Tomo009 said:
The context was that I think HK drill > BFF was kinda stupid for Fukua to have and I don't think people like that.
I don't care much about the loss of H.Drill xx BFF; I dislike the use of weird adjective modifiers that imply things which flat aren't true.
"SUPER unsafe" states you don't need any practice to punish it, can do a heavy starter combo to punish it, and can do so even if you didn't expect the move to come out at all. It's a "If this move gets blocked and you aren't playing against a dead rabbit, at best you're going to eat a raw launcher combo" kinda thing; for moves that are -40 or something on block.
"You have to go into training mode to find the right frame window to punish, and then when you learned that you can consistently Jab her after blocking it.. except if you're Painwheel, then you probably have to take the 50% scaled combo" is just.. "punishable". It's something that will get you hit if you did it in a wrong spot, but also something that will sometimes not get you hit if you're "lucky".
If H.Drill is already "SUPER unsafe", then what is H.Updo? "HYPER GIGA MONSTER COFFEE THE WORLD unsafe"?

It just reads as downplaying your character, as you convey "My reversal is super easily punishable by everyone in the cast for maximum damage", which just isn't the case.
"H.Drill is SUPER punisheable (because Painwheel has a 1f window to jab it)" is a similar sentence to Filia players spreading "s.HP is unsafe (because 2 characters can super it)". s.HP isn't unsafe, it's "Safe except against 2 supers".
In the end, this is just semantics. Don't use "super" in ALLCAPS when it's just.. normal.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
It just reads as downplaying your character, as you convey "My reversal is super easily punishable by everyone in the cast for maximum damage", which just isn't the case.
"H.Drill is SUPER punisheable (because Painwheel has a 1f window to jab it)" is a similar sentence to Filia players spreading "s.HP is unsafe (because 2 characters can super it)". s.HP isn't unsafe, it's "Safe except against 2 supers".
What? How is that anything alike, at all? One IS punishable every time unless an assist is involved, one is only punishable by a couple of supers in the game... That isn't alike at all. Look, I know your thing is trying to get people mad on the internet, so from now on I'll be very conscious of my adjectives in threads you could possibly read at some point in time.

I wasn't complaining about drill at all, I think it was kinda too good. You have to make a pretty hard read to avoid it.
 
Tomo009 said:
What? How is that anything alike, at all? One IS punishable every time unless an assist is involved, one is only punishable by a couple of supers in the game...
And one is "SUPER unsafe", while the other is just "unsafe", innit? Both are senseless exaggerations.

E: Because you still seem to have problems understanding, and I want to be done with it:

Filia s.HP *IS*: "Safe (except against two supers)"
Senseless exaggeration: "Filia s.HP is unsafe"

Fukua H.Drill *IS*: "Unsafe"
Senseless exaggeration: "H.Drill is SUPER unsafe"

Makes sense? I hope.

Tomo009 said:
from now on I'll be very conscious of my adjectives in threads you could possibly read at some point in time.
Thanks!
 
Idk, the way i see it, being throw punishable 100% of the time by every character means super unsafe to me. Anytime i know i will be punished, is super unsafe. Trying to make a meaningful difference between being heavy counterhit unsafe, and throw punishable unsafe seems like semantics in my mind. But i do see vulpes point.


I guess from now on we should simply use the move that said move is unsafe to ie "throw punishable" or "heavy ch punishable" to avoid confusion.
 
New post so it doesn't get glossed over due to semantics discussion:

On Fukua /

Her actual changes (differences to retail) at this point --

Gained:
- Bounce on M.ADart
- Damage on Fireballs: 600, 200 Chip; up from 350/150
- BFF doesn't get crossed up in the corner anymore
- New Air Super: Downwards Drill (how useful?)

Lost:
- Recovery on grounded Fireball a bit worse
- No more Airthrow followup in the corner
- Lowered damage on abare ([Button xx L.Drill xx BFF] vs. [Button xx L.Dart xx BFF] is -800 dmg and worse scaling)
- j.HK xx L.ADart isn't the most retarded thing in the game anymore
- j.HK doesn't beat/trade with every normal in the game anymore (hitbox nerf), reduced active frames to 2f (from 3f)
- H.Drill doesn't convert into full combos anymore
- Easier to find setups against BFF
- Command Throw startup up to 8f (from 4f)
- No more random converts from halfscreen fireballs

That's roughly it?

Seems kinda a lot for a character that is fine/sucks? :~

She feels like a character now, which is pretty cool.
Still think M.Shadow is kinda bollocks and would dig a hitbox buff on j.HP and more damage on fireballs (didn't feel they were busted with the 700/300 from the first beta test, they can't cover the entire screen like Peacocks do), but whatever.
Overall I really like these changes and am much happier with the character than I used to be.
Now I actually have to spend time learning her, how wondrous~
 
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Air downward drill is IMO a better choice for DHCs since it a) ends with the opponent on the ground, unlike ground drill (seriously, who used this for DHCs outside of Fenrir) and b) it gives more time to confirm and mash for damage than her fireball super.

Also, you can do ground drill super out of it on groundbounce.
 
d3v said:
Air downward drill is IMO a better choice for DHCs since it a) ends with the opponent on the ground, unlike ground drill (seriously, who used this for DHCs outside of Fenrir) and b) it gives more time to confirm and mash for damage than her fireball super.

Also, you can do ground drill super out of it on groundbounce.
you cant do a DHC into an aerial super (?)
 
DeathArcana said:
you cant do a DHC into an aerial super (?)
Who's talking about DHC into an aerial super. Down drill is grounded on the last hits so you can DHC into any grounded super out of it. With the ground drill super, you usually have to cut it short when DHCg so that the next incoming super can hit (unless it's Fenrir).
 
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d3v said:
Air downward drill is IMO a better choice for DHCs since it a) ends with the opponent on the ground, unlike ground drill (seriously, who used this for DHCs outside of Fenrir)
*raises hand

Opera.

SSJ.
 
any substantial uses for downward drill? i saw mayor(since he can't cope with beta change but ONE TIME) he did fireball to downward drill. certainly interesting to see unexplored tool something of passable tech
 
guitalex2007 said:
*raises hand

Opera.

SSJ.
Liar, everyone knows you don't play teams.
:PUN:
Dreamepitaph said:
any substantial uses for downward drill? i saw mayor(since he can't cope with beta change but ONE TIME) he did fireball to downward drill. certainly interesting to see unexplored tool something of passable tech
As I stated, so far I see it as a tool for setting up DHCs into another character. For raw damage as an ender, upward drill still does more.

That said, for two bars, you can combo upward drill out of it on ground bounce in the corner.
 
Question for point Fukua players, what do you like to do at the start of the round? I had been doing jump back H fireball a lot, but I was talking to Killjoy and he was like nah man, that's no good, that can get blown up real hard. He said empty jumping back is better, which is what I've been doing instead. I would be interested to hear what other people like to do, though.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Question for point Fukua players, what do you like to do at the start of the round? I had been doing jump back H fireball a lot, but I was talking to Killjoy and he was like nah man, that's no good, that can get blown up real hard. He said empty jumping back is better, which is what I've been doing instead. I would be interested to hear what other people like to do, though.
so....you got choices...

empty jump back.

you got literally fireball super at the start of round (READ THE OPPONENT GOOD) fukua gains the meter back anyways. depending on the point character you can s hk into shadow m called with assist.
 
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Jump while calling assists (usually walking George or Updo).
 
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Walk back or neutral jump and block (or throw a fireball if the opponent also starts defensively)
 
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Backdash plus assist, cancel backdash into hp fireball.

Protects both ground and air vectors while moving fukua backwards. Can get blown up if read... But everything in the game can.
 
So, how do you play neutral against someone with Big Bands big fist (whatever the move is called) as an assist?
 
Big Fist is called Brass Knuckle

Fukua Options:
LK.Shadow
c.HK
H.Drill xx Kiss
Jump, Airdart (retracts you bottom hurtbox, so you just go over it)
Block, j.HK j.HP xN
Countercall
 
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