General Beginner Q&A Thread!

Discussion in 'Beginner Forum' started by Liam, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. jerdebird

    jerdebird New Member

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Steam:
    jerdebird
    Valentine
    Hey All,

    I'm doing the full-time work & university student thing,
    so I'm about to have some free time to put into SG again,
    and I would appreciate some direction on how to improve my play.

    SG is the first fighting game I've really been able to put time into since picking up a fight stick,
    and I've got three quick questions:


    1) I'm having serious trouble reliably dashing with 4,4 & 6,6

    It's like when I try to do a fast twitch with my left hand
    • as the knife edge of my hand rests on the panel of the stick,
    • with the inside of my palm continuously contacting the bat/ball top of the joystick
    that the second input won't register/me going back to neutral doesn't register.
    I know SG facilitates dashing with pp, but other games don't.

    I have installed a joystick Short throw mod and an Octagonal restrictor plate.
    I honestly don't remember if I put both panels of the throw mod in, or just one.

    Before I take it back apart I just wanted to ask if anyone knew of this (difficulty resetting the stick to neutral) being a known side effect,
    or if I'm doing something else wrong.

    I have been doing intense bodyweight exercises/combatives training for 11+ years irl, so my hands/wrists are unusually strong.
    Maybe if I installed stronger springs generally...?

    Every other 'fluidy' motion is fine for me, even +R I-no's stupid motions;
    just not series of 'twitchy' inputs, like at all.


    2) I'm dumbfounded watching other ppls training vids, bc their inputs are incredibly precise.
    It's kinda embarrassing to say, but my input strings still look like a lite-brite exploded.

    Mashing. I'm still mashing a lot,
    other than the few specific Val attack chains/Specials/Supers I've muscle memorized.

    How do you recommend I get more precise in my inputs/not push so many attack buttons simultaneously when reacting?


    3) I've prob spent 70% of my time with Val, either alone or on a team.
    I've stuck with her bc of
    • her movement speed,
    • her incredibly annoying normals, esp MP & MK, and
    • bc I was able to kind of figure out her basic stuff on my own
    Next is Cerebella, but it's looking like Filia or Double make good partners for Val, though Fukua could be interesting.

    My brain just couldn't handle trying to learn Filia and Fukua concurrently lol.

    Any characters, or more importantly performance targets you recommend I try for in learning a team?


    Sorry to info dump,
    I've been meaning to ask someone about this for awhile.
    And I don't know anyone who plays SG

    Thank you!
     
  2. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

    Location:
    West Canada
    Steam:
    Skarmand
    PSN:
    Skarmand
    Robo Fortune
    Double
    1) I don't play stick, no idea!

    2) I did this a lot too when I was starting out.
    It takes a long time to learn the timing of when every move recovers and when you can go into other moves etc.
    If you're not 100% certain on those windows, you'll want to hit the buttons more than once to have a greater chance of hitting it.

    Eventually you'll play so much and get so used to the timing on absolutely everything that you'll know when to hit the buttons, which is far more precise than just mashing things.
    Sometimes there's no reason not to mash if you don't know when the opponent is going to give a reversal window and you have two meters for a safe DHC for example.
    If the goal is to get the character out and you know they have to reset you to kill you, then a lot of players will just go ham on the DP motion, then DHC out after the super.

    So to get better at, try and focus on your own characters moves and when all the windows are, and if you miss them, that's okay.
    You might find you'll drop more things and have more things not come out, but you can adjust it for next time if you're worried about the habbit of mashing everything.

    3) Cerebella / Double are really good picks to add to a team, both are good with Valentine.
    Most people run M Bomber with Double so that you can call it for corner carry, or in the corner you can call it so that you can load up a vial (or two? I forget) and then throw it later.
    For Cerebella most people run Excellabella so that you can do CHP > Excellabella catch, then for sure load two vials.
     
    jerdebird likes this.
  3. stronzolo

    stronzolo New Member

    Steam:
    stronzolo
    Robo Fortune
    how do u deal with Peacock (shadow of impending doom H) and Big Band (brass knuckles H) as solo Robo Fortune? They quickly fill the screen whit junk and armored hits and by the time i reach them (at least before she teleports away in peacock case) half my hp are already gone due to the chip damage, not that it gets any better once i'm close :C.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  4. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

    Location:
    West Canada
    Steam:
    Skarmand
    PSN:
    Skarmand
    Robo Fortune
    Double
    This might help a bit.

     
    stronzolo likes this.
  5. captainoffail

    captainoffail New Member

    Filia
    How does one get better at timing? I can do a lot of practice and get muscle memory for the combo inputs so those are fine but I'm making absolutely no progress on timing. Literally all my experience with fighting games, apart from fireball spam, is hours and hours in training mode because I can never get good enough at the timing to execute any BnB combos.

    Context
    I've been in training mode grinding out the hours trying to do Filia combo
    c.LK s.M s.HP j.HK adc j.LP j.HP j.HK
    the bolded part is my problem. I can get it a few times. I try to make adjustments like if the j.HK doesn't come out but it airdashes then I slow down the airdash or if there's the j.LP input after the airdash but it never comes out, I delay that. If the j.LP comes out but it's too slow, then I try to speed it up. Unfortunately I can't process frames so I straight up fail make that small adjustment. I am using a one button dash macro. Not mashing either.
     
  6. alexpi

    alexpi Your waifu sucks

    It's different for everyone, but I use audio cues to help with most of my goofy timings. You still need to sit in the lab and grind out the stuff like crazy, but giving yourself some clear "now i push the button" point helps me a lot. That said, I don't recommend audio cues, it can really mess you up in tournaments.
     
  7. Da_Face89

    Da_Face89 Do it All Day, Do it Every Day: Jump and HK.

    Location:
    Chicago
    Steam:
    The_Face89
    PSN:
    Da_Face89
    Peacock
    Big Band
    Fukua
    The beauty of skullgirls' training mode is that it has a huge amount of tools and info available to you. Setting Attack Data to "advanced" adds combo adds in a lot of features such as IPS tracking and Combo stage. The full list is here, but the most important one is frame data. Rather than showing how safe something is on block, this actually shows you when the hitboxes are active, when you can cancel, etc. Watching an attack's frame data without attempting a followup can help you get an idea of when you need to complete your input.
    Show Spoiler
    For example, one of the first things I tried to learn with Big Band was to link A-Train into Supersonic. It got pretty hard, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong. After starting to use Advanced Attack Data, I learned that A-Train had a super-cancel window of somewhere between 2 and 4 frames.

    The next step to this was to figure out how to get this to work consistently. I figured out that holding down DURING A-Train actually worked essentially as a buffer, and that by doing QCF on the last hit, I could get Supersonic to work almost 100% of the time.


    If you're gonna build your own combo, the IPS part of the Attack Data is quite useful. The red half-circles show whether or not you can use a move in a situation. The top half means you can't use it in-air, bottom half on the ground. I don't quite know how it determines whether or not an attack triggers the half (i think it has to do with starting a chain), but this can be quite quicker than simply brute-forcing while trying to figure out what allows burst and what doesn't.
     
  8. Taneisha Jane

    Taneisha Jane New Member

    Filia
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    How does one get better at defense and executing combos (without repeating the same move again and again)?

    I've been trying to get better at blocking and defending my go to characters (Filia and Valentine), but I'm still incredibly bad at it. As for executing combos, I notice that both characters have really good combos, but for some reason I'm dropping the combos right in the middle. Any advice or suggestions on that?

    P.S.: I have done the training tutorials and have finished them, but I'm still having trouble with defense and executing combos...
     
  9. alexpi

    alexpi Your waifu sucks

    you practice them by repeating them over and over again.
     
  10. HiroProtagonest

    HiroProtagonest Splatoonatic

    Steam:
    Hiro Protagonest
    PSN:
    Hiro Protagonest
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Big Band
    It's likely a matter of mashing too much or not hitting the button fast enough. I'm going to make an assumption and assume you're practicing the Filia combo where she's comboing in the air and sends the opponent down with Split Ends, then lands and does a crouching kick to continue. You can't just mash out the kick button, because it's not an auto-chain. You have to watch Filia drop down and land and figure out the window to hit that LK button.

    Just upthread Alex said that he uses audio to figure out timings. I use visuals.
     
  11. Taneisha Jane

    Taneisha Jane New Member

    Filia
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    I've been repeating them over and over and for some reason, my character doesn't block at least one or two hits in the combo that the opponent executes at the time. Same goes for when I try executing combos... I've even gone back to the training mode tutorial to help me get a grasp of it. I've gotten so frustrated by this... :-/
     
  12. Taneisha Jane

    Taneisha Jane New Member

    Filia
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    You know, I tried not to practice button mashing because I have a habit of button mashing through out the whole match (which can really be sickening). I am learning the moves and the combos, as I stated before, and I always felt that button mashing was just a form of cheating.

    I have to say, though my timing at times can be off. Not sure how to figure out timing through audio and visuals though... Can you explain that a little more (sorry, I'm a newb to it in this game). I read the practice room guide linked above on this page, but I was still a bit confused...? :-/)
     
  13. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    @Taneisha Jane

    steps to getting better defense is to learn how to push block guard cancel and to how to do a dash into block and a chicken block.

    Push Block Guard Cancels [PBGC]: In SG you can cancel out of a push block animation into a move. Your character will flash green for a brief second signifying that you've done the pbgc correctly. Mostly doing a pbgc is to throw out an invincible move to counter your opponent's pressure, how it is unsafe and can be baited if you're not careful with your timing.

    Dash blocking is important when you want to approach but the opponent is throwing out a move that can hit you. Most cast members have a point in their dash where you can press down/back to go into a crouch blocking state. [Note certain character's frd dashes are extremely stubby and have too much a gap where they can go into the crouching state after a dash. For characters like Filia and Val it's fine for they have quick dashes that can be crouch canceled.]

    Chicken Blocking is when you do a quick jump into the air and block an incoming attack. This helps prevent from getting hit from a low sweeping move as well as mid and high attacks that could get. However in SG there are 4 frames of prejump animation where the opponent can hit you even if you're holding back. This can get tricky if your opponent is right on top of you, so this move is used when you see a gap inbetween your opponent's block string allowing you to chicken block and regain some neutral game.

    As for the combos for right now practicing over and over again is the best thing for you to do. Learning the combo structure and timing of all the moves is important. So with me I use both the Visual and Audio to help cue me in on what's going on in a combo. Each character has a soundeffect or a voice line tied to a move so learning those sounds can really help you where you are in that move to key you in when to cancel into the next move. The same goes for visual cues where there are certain animation frames or effects that players look for to help know when to do another move. After you have those down we can see about going into resets and more complex combos that lead to setups for multiple resets, Mash Baits, and Burst Baits.

    :-]
     
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  14. Taneisha Jane

    Taneisha Jane New Member

    Filia
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    Thank you! I'll try this out...
     
  15. Da_Face89

    Da_Face89 Do it All Day, Do it Every Day: Jump and HK.

    Location:
    Chicago
    Steam:
    The_Face89
    PSN:
    Da_Face89
    Peacock
    Big Band
    Fukua
    It's a common misconception that timing is REALLY easy in skullgirls. Yes, it's almost entirely cancels, but depending on the timing of those cancels, the combo may or may not work. The timing of attacks in your initial air string might affect whether or not your opponent is too far away for your groundbounce to work. Maybe you just got the air combo when you needed to wait a few frames more for a restand (a restand is when a move changes an opponent from an aerial combo state to a grounded combo state). Put training mode into slow-mo, and watch carefully for when the combo works and the difference in how it looks and feels from when you failed.

    The tutorials don't offer much. My advice is to watch replays of competitive matches, and see what they do and how their combos look. Though some of the combos are difficult, they're the optimized versions for the most part, and challenging yourself to pull them off is (in my opinion) the best way to get better at timing. Not only that, it gives you the best version of the combo available, so now you've learned both how to master timing and your character's best combos. This is the method I use, and it's very effective for any fighting game.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
    Skodial likes this.
  16. seMpai

    seMpai Student

    Location:
    Germany, Frankfurt
    Steam:
    hannibambel
    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    I was reading a cerebella thread and the author said that the characters have different weights and fall speed? How important is this?
     
  17. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Its importance varies depending on the character you play. For some characters weight has very little effect on the their combos (e.g. Double). For others characters it has a much bigger effect, for instance Val has to make slight adjustments to the timing for most of her combos depending on weight.

    If you want max damage then there are some routes that only work on some weights/characters (e.g. Big Band/lights only combos).

    Most characters have at least one decent BnB that at least only has slight adjustments for weight/characters.
     
  18. alexpi

    alexpi Your waifu sucks

    it's more at the more optimum combos where it starts to matter. Other than Parasoul. For whatever reason her optimum mid-screen is usable on everyone.
     
  19. Da_Face89

    Da_Face89 Do it All Day, Do it Every Day: Jump and HK.

    Location:
    Chicago
    Steam:
    The_Face89
    PSN:
    Da_Face89
    Peacock
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Certain combos are impossible on certain characters, or else require different timing. Certain characters need to pay more attention to this in general than others. My general thoughts, just really quick:

    Show Spoiler

    Filia's optimal combos may be affected, but not so much her basic stuff. Airdash cancels would prob be generally unaffected.
    I believe Bella's combos may vary depending on weight more than other characters.
    Peacock's corner loop is impossible on Double and BB as a result of this. This is really the only statement I can say is fact, rather than a guess.
    Val probably has some different combos, due to the angle of her airdash.
    Double doesn't seem affected heavily.
    Painwheel probably has some variations in potential charge and BR timing.
    Fortune seems unaffected, as her air combos are pretty short. Her airdash is similar to filia's so...
    I know nothing about Parasoul, but her combos seem pretty universal.
    BB's sound stun timings likely differ, especially when used for beat extend.
    I know nothing about Squigly.
    Wulf may have some differences, given he has no real go-to launcher for air combos. As a result of this, he doesn't really do a lot of air combos, often times opting for chair juggles, grab, get chair back, do oki because of hard knockdown.
    Eliza has a similar airdash to Val, so she likely has different timing as well.
    Robo is a toss-up. The magnet is likely different in timing for her, and her double jump cancel likely needs different timing.


    I'm probably not one to be talking though, this is easily the Skullgirls topic I know the least about.

    REMINDER: This is a beginner thread. That doesn't mean that this question should not have been raised (it's totally ok to have), but it does mean that the people reading this aren't quite at a level where this is necessary. So don't panic thinking you have to spend hours finding the perfect combo on each individual character (most characters have weights identical to others i'm pretty sure).
     
  20. battlebadger

    battlebadger New Member

    Steam:
    Harry433
    Cerebella
    Hi guys, I've never played a fighting game before but I'm trying to pick up skullgirls atm. I've decided just to focus on Cerebella until I at least get the hang of how the game works. I get my ass handed to me probably around 95% of the time when I play online but I definitely feel like I'm making progress. Slowly. Very slowly.

    But I'm completely baffled when I play against parasoul. Unless I have like a flawless round I always seem to end up stuck in the corner and constantly on fire. I don't understand how parasoul's napalm stuff works and so I don't even know what's going on. I seem to be on fire all the time after my first missed block and there don't seem to be any gaps for me to use to try and recover. Could someone please explain what's going on with all the constant burning napalm and maybe give me some hints for how to get out of it?
     
  21. HiroProtagonest

    HiroProtagonest Splatoonatic

    Steam:
    Hiro Protagonest
    PSN:
    Hiro Protagonest
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Big Band
    Oh god, I don't know why people call her a beginner character. Maybe it's just me, but she has like... ten different special moves, and poor base mobility but two unique tools for it (plus double jumps). Maybe other people just have a much easier time wrapping their head around her, or just spam Merry-Go-Rilla until it lands and they get their combo.
    OKAY! SO!

    Napalm tears, when left on their own, will explode after two seconds! But if you hit Parasoul, deployed tears instantly explode harmlessly!

    NOW HERE'S THE THING! They have 40 frames of hitstun if you get hit by one (I hope you know what frames are, if not watch this)! This leaves you incredibly open, she can land practically any attack after that!

    Aside from having the longest non-stagger non-crumple non-OTG hitstun in the game, you're probably overthinking this! Just like everything else in the game, everything off a tear is either a combo or a reset. If it's a combo, you can't do anything about it! But I already wrote this up, so here's how she uses them!

    Parasoul has two moves which leave pool balls napalm tears! Napalm Toss and Napalm Shot! Diamond Deflector will deflect Shot, but Bella doesn't have long-range shutdown, so she's probably using Toss! Note that if you use Deflector on Shot, it will leave a tear on your position. If she gets hit by Bella's counter-projectile, the tear will disappear because she got hit, but if Soul blocks or avoids it, you have to watch out!

    Also! Lots of Parasoul's moves have flames on them. This isn't just cool animation! Any move that has fire on it will detonate any tear it touches! A lot of her punches have this, plus Napalm Quake and Napalm Pillar! She also has a move called Napalm Trigger, which has the sole purpose of instantly detonating tears anywhere on the screen!
     
    battlebadger likes this.
  22. battlebadger

    battlebadger New Member

    Steam:
    Harry433
    Cerebella

    Yeah, she doesn't seem really straightforward but I really wanted to settle on a character to learn quickly because I was picking a main in LoL for like two years and that's a lot of my life I'll never get back! Also I do a lot of circus stuff and when I see her come in in that hoop I get this massive grin on my face every time.

    I think the parasouls I'm playing against normally aren't that good, I feel like napalm is being spammed at me quite a lot and I get stuck being on fire for like the whole match. Do I just have to deal with that in the same way that I'd try and deal with a normal reset and watch for the gaps and be ready to block whenever I get the chance? I don't need to specifically low block to stop being hit by the napalm blobs do I?

    Thanks for replying btw :)
     
  23. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double

    This video may be helpful. As Cerebella you also should remember to use diamond deflector since that is an amazing anti-zoning tool. You can also tumble run through a napalm shot but that requires having charge.
     
  24. battlebadger

    battlebadger New Member

    Steam:
    Harry433
    Cerebella
    Thanks, that's super helpful! I have tried to use diamond deflector, and I couldn't ever win a round against peacock without it, the problem for me is that I've never played a game with the dp input before. Definitely getting better though :)
     
  25. HiroProtagonest

    HiroProtagonest Splatoonatic

    Steam:
    Hiro Protagonest
    PSN:
    Hiro Protagonest
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Big Band
    Oh yeah, Tumbling Run has armor on everything, not just ram horns. #BellaThingsIForget
     
  26. Pix-Myuri

    Pix-Myuri New Member

    Location:
    Calgary AB
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Squigly
    Dunno if this exactly counts under a gameplay question but whatever.

    I was just wondering what the most efficient way to practice characters and combos. I'm still experimenting with which characters that I want to use and have pretty much defaulted to the characters I liked the most, but I'm not sure how best to go about training them. I've been training them altogether pretty much with learning combos for each of them at the same time but I wanted to know if it would be more efficient to just try and put all of my time and focus on one character at a time.

    If anyone has any insight on how I should go about this I'd appreciate it. :)
     
  27. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    In terms of practicing just combos, once you can do the combo itself in training mode you should try either doing it vs an AI or run about, air dash, etc before then doing the combo. This is because when you just practice the combo in training mode normally, you already have the combo at the front of your mind but in a match you are focused on other things until you get the hit. So doing this sort of practice will train you to be able to recall combos very quickly.

    Other than that, I'd just recommend playing some matches online in beginner's lobbies. I'd stick with solo at the start until you are sure you understand your characters and then you can start whittling away the ones you like less and trying out team configs.
     
  28. Chainz

    Chainz The name's (Mewtwo) Chainz . . . . .

    Location:
    Memphis, Tennesee
    Steam:
    mew2chainz_
    Eliza
    Hello,

    I'd like to start off first by saying I this is not my first fighting game. I do have experience in both smash and marvel 3, I understand things like footsies and such.

    But I have no idea how to team build blindly. I want to build a team around Eliza (I've been impressed by her the most so far), but I'm not sure how the characters really work and what they do, so I don't know which assists to pick. (The notion of using DP assists is completely foreign to me, for example). It kind of makes trying to branch out in to this game frustrating. In my transition into skull girls, i have some questions I want to ask:

    1.) What kind of play style is Eliza? She seems like a meter hungry mid-long range zoner with some invincible mix-ups in the form of Sekmet, but I haven't seen enough play of her to be sure. I'm just not sure what her strengths and weaknesses are.

    2.) What is the Skull Girls Meta right now? This game seems to be fairly balanced by the look of it, but are there any characters and/or tactics that are more prevalent (so I can prepare for them :p) How does Eliza fare in the current meta?

    3.)What Eliza players should I be watching out for? She doesn't seem to be played much, from the looks of it. but what do I know?

    4.) What kind of teammates should she have? And what position in a team should she play?

    Thanks to anyone who can help me.
     
  29. HiroProtagonest

    HiroProtagonest Splatoonatic

    Steam:
    Hiro Protagonest
    PSN:
    Hiro Protagonest
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Big Band
    Her weird-ass projectile jump-cancel DP is strike-invincible, and Sekhmet has hyper armor. Both can be grabbed.

    However, as an assist, she cannot be grabbed! And Sekhmet is an assist! It still costs meter.
    The meta is solos

    The most common thing I see is anchor Band. But I see everything.

    THE META IS SOLOS
    Go watch the Skullgirls Combo Breaker 2017 streams. At least Top 8, preferably Top 24. The list of streams for Combo Breaker is here, think it's Team Sp00ky and XSplit. Hope they still have the archived broadcasts.
    Any, really. She has one of the better tag-ins and DHC Lady of Slaughter does damage, but her pressure isn't the greatest so assists make it safer. I think her tag-in on death is pretty weak too, no double jump or even metered air reversal.

    Butcher's Blade is really strong, reach, armor, costs meter. Osiris Spiral is a good lockdown assist once they're in the corner and it might be able to catch airdashers (though I should learn to deal with Valentine normally). I guess Dive of Horus is a good assist but I never really got that one, probably ambiguous mixups but the hitbox is weird outside the corner.
     
  30. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Eliza has a strong mid-game due to her large normals, though her hurtbox extends with them so she can easily get hit out of them if you aren't careful (turn on hitboxes in training mode to see what I mean). She has very strong up close pressure, mixups and resets. While she has a few long range tools, she generally wants to be mid-range or applying pressure up close. She has pretty poor reversals, so on defence she is very weak: her DP isn't throw invulnerable and I believe that her light version of her DP either has no invincibility or poor invincibility whereas her H version doesn't hit up close (though it is good in neutral). Her only metered startup invincible reversal is her level 3 as well. Sekhmet isn't really that great against someone who knows how to deal with it, all of her enders are punishable by throw unless spaced well and she is vulnerable to double snaps. Her Sekmet moves are generally mostly used as assists or for conversions.

    Her best assists are:
    Horus - alright anti-air due to its vertical range but no invincibility. Good for mixups due to hitting high and being easy to convert off of.
    Butcher's Blade - Lots of horizontal range and holds the opponent for quite some time. It also has hyper armour so it likely won't get stuffed once it is already out. It does use meter though.
    H Osiris - Sort of like a more vertical butcher's blade without the armour. I believe it does the more chip than any other non-metered move in the game (or close to it).

    Eliza is pretty versatile in terms of where you would put her on a team. She does well on point, a DP assist can make up for her poor up-close defense while a mid-range assist can help you get in. That said, due to her great assists, you would probably want to put her either mid or anchor so that you have access to them. She makes a decent anchor due to her ability to play her game without assists pretty well and because you will usually have a bit of meter at this point for her level 3. She has no special defensive options on entry though like an invincible air-super though so you need to hold that first mixup.

    If you aren't running her on point you will want at least one character with good meter-build (Ms. Fortune is the classic choice though Bella and Val also have good meter-build), this is especially the case if you are using butcher's blade.
    As I mentioned, the classic pairing is Ms. Fortune (H Fiber)/Eliza (Butcher's Blade). Have a look at Lazy Diablos/Izapyi for a bunch of high-level play of this team. H Fiber gives Eliza a DP assist while Fortune loves Butcher's Blade and has the meter build to use it.
    Eliza (Horus)/Double (M Bomber)/Big Band (L Beat Extend) would be a good team if you want Eliza on point. M Bomber gives her good horizontal coverage while BE is a great DP. Double also provides Eliza a safe DHC for when you want to get her out of there.
    Eliza's pretty versatile, so you can build a team with just about anyone on it with her tbh.

    Notable Eliza players would be Lazy Diablos/Izapyi, Severine, Fuzzy Snugs. Sonic Fox also used Robo Fortune/Eliza in Evo 2015.

    In regards to the meta in SG, most people play trio. That isn't to say duo and solo aren't viable though (just look at Combo Breaker for some Solo action), both are very strong in their own ways. Part of people playing trios is also likely because it is more fun (IMO) to play multiple characters. Big Band assist (in particular H Brass Knuckles) is very prominent and you are going to have to learn to deal with it. DP assists are also very popular. The game's balance is pretty great but due to certain characters having certain roles (e.g. Val makes a great point character but isn't great elsewhere) you are likely to see certain characters more often: Double, Big Band, Cerebella and Fukua.

    Due to the last patch, people are forced to do a lot more resets/return to neutral so you should get more chances to play, but rather than focus on your defence when you get hit, it is much more important to avoid being forced to block or get hit (similar to Marvel). While SG has some very powerful defensive tools for getting out of pressure, offense is also really strong so good movement and neutral is paramount.
     
  31. PleasureCutWind

    PleasureCutWind Nice And Pleasureful

    Location:
    San Bruno, CA
    Steam:
    NAP | PleasureThatCutsWind
    Cerebella
    Eliza
    Big Band
    All of her dps are strike invulnerable on startup and the first frame it's active. L spiral is -2 on block and isn't punishable by throw. I'd go far enough to say that horus assist isn't as good as butchers, axe, or h spiral anymore; if you want horus, i'd consider using axe instead because of hyper armor and it beats out a lot of things (and it's an overhead of course).
     
  32. Aquariatus

    Aquariatus New Member

    Steam:
    Aquariatus
    Valentine
    Fukua
    Not sure if this is the right place, but uh, here goes! I currently love love love Fukua, but I'd like to try to pick up another character. My only problem is the fact that I cannot seem to find anyone with a similar play style (other than Filia, who I dislike for some reason????) Any suggestions/tips on finding my new addition?
     
  33. HiroProtagonest

    HiroProtagonest Splatoonatic

    Steam:
    Hiro Protagonest
    PSN:
    Hiro Protagonest
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Big Band
    Uh... double jump? Air projectile? Grounded overhead? Robo-Fortune?

    You should probably focus on learning Fukua though. Then you could try learning combos for the other characters?
     
  34. Kyugetsuki

    Kyugetsuki aspiring game dev-ish~

    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C
    Steam:
    Kyugetsuki
    Painwheel
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Have a go at Valentine. I think she might be what you're looking for.

    Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk
     
    Aquariatus and Skodial like this.
  35. Aquariatus

    Aquariatus New Member

    Steam:
    Aquariatus
    Valentine
    Fukua
    Perfect. She was exactly what I needed. Thank you so much!
     
  36. Jones

    Jones New Member

    Peacock
    Valentine
    Do people actually only play big band because they cant play anything else? if so thats just sad...
     
  37. Triblue

    Triblue Active Member

    Steam:
    jujubemaster
    Painwheel
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    While annoying to constantly fight against, solo big band is not a sign of low skill. It's possible that the person is just starting out, but that does not apply to everyone. It's good to fight against solo Big Band, it will teach you about how to abuse your assists in the dirtiest ways possible since Big Band could easily kill them given the chance.
    Also, here's a Big Band trade secret; there are assists that can make his dp pretty safe at round start. Thing is, there are ways around it. My fukua and robo team can do drill+assist to beat it out. I mention this because it is a really common goto strat if they have something like l chair or l george.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  38. Fumako

    Fumako Jimbob

    Location:
    The Medici's Cellar
    Steam:
    Fumako
    PSN:
    Fumako
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Hi, I play Big Band and he's pretty great. Yes, I can play other characters, and no I play him on point so I'm not playing him just for his assists.

    Biggest reasons I play him are:
    > High damage.
    > Easy universal combos.
    > Meterless hard-knockdown from anywhere.
    > I can play Cruel Angel's Thesis
    > L Brass is so good.
    Basically, my neutral game is pretty iffy but getting just one stray conversion allows me to immediately go to oki-setups that let me take back the game.

    You didn't say you were having trouble, but imma assume you are.
    Band's biggest weakness is gasp his huge size. Be sure to abuse that fact, but remember that doing something more than once or twice can get you read back to the menu.
    As both a Peacock and a Band player I also suggest using Peacock's crouching HK.
    It travels a decent distance, breaks armour, and can be made safe with L George (-2 on block, I think). You can also then follow up the L George with a L teleport and restart zoning. Sadly you can't convert off of it but it does deal a chunk of damage. Very effective vs Brass heavy players.
    I also like using Lonesome Lenny since it makes people more weary of going in or using H Brass (I think you can punish a blocked H Brass with Argus and that leads into a full punish but not sure). Downsides, though, are: costs meter, risky, can damage you and potentially turn momentum against you, converting into a full punish takes another bar of meter.

    tl;dr
    Band seems pretty good and has good stuff, but his hugeness just makes pressure and conversions so easy.
     
  39. Pix-Myuri

    Pix-Myuri New Member

    Location:
    Calgary AB
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Squigly
    So I've been trying doing more online matches recently and what I can deduce besides my terrible connections and location in comparison with most players in lobbies is my poor defensive game and conversions (I find I usually just try and throw out a combo starter in hopes of it hitting even on block). Anyone have some general tips or stuff to look out for and focus on when it comes to being defensive or trying to break out of pressure?
     
  40. Fumako

    Fumako Jimbob

    Location:
    The Medici's Cellar
    Steam:
    Fumako
    PSN:
    Fumako
    Big Band
    Peacock
    On conversions:
    This is one of those things that are really about experience that you can't grind-out too effectively in training, imo.
    I don't really know what you mean by "combo starters" since I think all most are, but here are some tips:
    Go into training room and press buttons until you find moves that you think will be good in neutral.
    Now, approach the enemy in multiple ways and see how you can hit with those moves. Done? Now do it again but this time set the opponent to jump. The point of this is to get you to really get a feel as to how to hit with these moves.
    After doing this a bunch you should be pretty comfortable, this is when you start trying to see how to convert hits on standing/jumping/moving dummies. If you've been playing for a while you should know kinda by instinct how to convert off of the hits, if not you can just hit the moves then try chaining it to different moves and specials. Eventually you should find whatever works into your BnB.
    Once you do that, move onto playing AI. AI are useless for training and give you bad habits but they're really good for practicing converting off of stray hits on moving targets.

    On defence and pressure:
    Pushblock is your greatest ally.
    Teaching yourself to be able to pushblock stray single hits on reaction is super good for keeping the opponent out.
    Just beware, because mistiming it can cause you to dash/airdash and the opponent can punish. Hell, I think SG is the only game with set-ups to bait you into mistiming pushblocks.
    Multi-hits, though, are a bit trickier. I think you can only push them away on the last hit?
    Learn to PBGC, though, and multi-hit moves stop being pressure and start becoming opportunities to escape pressure or turn their momentum into yours.
    For learning PBGCs, go to training and set the enemy into a Cerebella. Record it to do Cerecopter and go into the corner.
    Cerecopter has a lot of hits and stays out for a while so it's the perfect PBGC teaching tool.
    Oh, and don't forget absolute defence. It's when you block one way then block the other way while pushblocking. I.E. Block High, pushblock, Block Low.
    By doing this you will be blocking both high and low hits during the duration of the PB animation.

    ^-^
     

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