General Gameplay Discussion

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by Dude, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    Self explanatory title.

    So I ran into something interesting during training the other day that leads me to believe there is something wrong with the "play back as reversal" record option.

    I was practicing Seria Sing xx Daisy Pusher setups with Squigly. Specifically, I was trying to see if I could make daisy pusher an unjumpable throw after blockstrings. I recorded the dummy to hold up, and set as reversal. My recording method was just holding up, pressing record, then stopping record (I'm pretty sure this should make the jump come out on the first frame of the record playback. It seemed to anyway.) after that I set the dummy to block all, and tried doing HP HP xx QCF + MP (lvl 2) xx QCB + throw. The dummy got thrown every single time. I tried with different attacks and all of these also led to seemingly unjumpable Daisy Pusher tick throws.

    Just to be sure, I tried a different recording method. I set playback to once, and recorded the dummy blocking for a second, then holding up for about ten. I tried multiple different tick throw setups here (always ending in QCF + MP (lvl 2) xx QCB + throw), making sure that each string was long enough for the jump to come out as an immediate reversal, and the dummy jumped out of Daisy Pusher each time.

    So, thoughts on this? Was my recording method in the first instance flawed? Or is there something wrong with the record>reversal option? Anyone run into anything like this before?
     
  2. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    @Dime_x , thanks again for that PW combo. Comboing with her feels really good. Unfortunately I'm not sure how useful it is for this version of SG. Especially if you're worried about undizzy. The problem is it hits stage 5 really early into the combo, so you're accumulating undizzy really early (I miscounted the IPS stages that first time I saw it). It seems to me that using those fly cancels too early in PW combos is gonna hurt her in the long run. Comboing into either of her launchers early is gonna maximize your damage and combo length in MDE.

    Edit: this is the combo in question (courtesy of Dime) for any interested:
    Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx fly df +j.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lk buer, fly uf+j.lp,j.lk,st.hk, j.hp xx fly j.mk,j.hp,cr.mp,st.hk,j.mp,j.hp,j.hk,st.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger, dash st.lp,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger xx DC
     
  3. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    @Dude

    I jumped the gun when I called that universal... It isn't unfortunately. But it works perfectly against parasoul...


    Dude, my current bnb for sde will also work for PC I'm 99% sure it doesn't hit undizzy though I need to recheck:

    Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx fly df +j.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lk buer xx flight cancel, df+j.lp,st.mp, j.mp,j.hp,j.hk,st.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger dash st.lp,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger xx dc

    Works against everyone except double who you will have to omit the j.mp against. Does 8.1k on sde can be made to do around 8.5 k with some easy optimizations. (On sde)

    I do need to check its undizzy though.

    I don't know about using painwheels stuff into direct launcher though.l. She doesn't have many viable options....


    The closest one that I've been thinking about is cr.lk,cr.mp,st.hk... But that has terrible range.. Same as st.lp,cr.lk,st.mp....
     
  4. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Fuck your notation is ugly Dime
    Standard PW SDE BnBs trigger Undizzy at the 2nd to last chain, so I wouldn't be too sure that yours still works
    j.MP j.HP j.HK works on Double now

    But I dunno why you're doing PW-specific talk in a General Discussion Thread
     
  5. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Lol... Someone is butthurt I guess. My notation is ugly? So? It isn't there to suck your dick or to win the prettiest guide contest. Or to win the prize notation contest... Plus... Eye of the beholder. Also I was talking pw in the GENERAL DISCUSSION thread... Which is all characters, after I was talked to about pw... I was REPLYING TO so,etching said to me.

    Anyways... Whatever.


    Ahem.

    to anyone reading this post: it is my belief that peacock may be the best character in the game now...well, the best point character on a team. She has had most of her weaknesses taken away and many if not most of the system changes affect her positively, such as universal throw frame data, undizzy and undizzy decay (peacock don't need to hit with normals based combos to kill people, every other character does) undizzy nerfs normals based combos... Assists will be fodder for peacock to lock out and yet she protects her assist calls the easiest out of the cast cause of bangx3 being easy mode protection from fullscreen.

    When other characters assists are locked out they lose a huge advantage, peacock however need only run away... Which is a good position for her... It isn't really for any other character except for parasoul and even that is iffy.


    So yeah, I may be wrong, but this is how I'm thinking right now.


    The primary problem I see for peacock is hard countering from squiggly based teams. Which alone may put peacock at a lower level.
     
  6. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    I dunno, we were talking about it in the SRK thread so I moved it here. I'm sure you'll survive.

    Edit: this is at Vulpes of course, not Dime.
     
  7. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    #1 No, I'm not butthurt?

    #2 Do you really think your way of typing it is better than this:
    Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx fly
    - df +j.lk,
    cr.mk,st.hp xx lk buer xx flight cancel,
    - df+j.lp,
    st.mp,
    - j.mp,j.hp,j.hk,
    st.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger dash
    st.lp,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger xx dc

    Which takes 5 seconds longer to type?

    #3 No you don't have to win a beauty contest, but this is a discussion platform. I can write all my posts in Welsh and state that I'm not here to win the prize comprehensibility contest, but.. uh? It'd be nice if you formated your posts in a way that they're not a pain to read. This makes people more likely to look at your posts and answer in some way - the same reason you use paragraphs, punctuation, grammar and proper spelling rather than headbutting your keyboard a few times.

    The "you" was plural. I just didn't understand why this discussion got moved here rather than into the PW boards. It's kinda weird to on one hand complain about Char Forums being dead, and on the other post something that is clearly char specific into a GenDisc thread
    And yes I'll survive, but I'll also survive if you open an "Anita made a new Gender Discussion video, check it out" in this Subforum. I'll still tell you that it ain't Gameplay related. @Dude

    I don't even know what this is supposed to say - you're aware that Specials add Undizzy, yes?
     
  8. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    I was using something very similar. It is worth noting that the mp can whiff after j.mp vs Squigs.

    It doesn't happen often, but I have lost matches due to it. I use a far less efficient combo so as to keep 100% universality.

    Here's a video of it happening. As far as I can make out and have been told, it isn't timing related.
     
  9. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Yo, can we start putting dudes on ignore instead of starting up arguments over every little thing that we personally may not like? I know it's the Internet but damn, show some restraint. Don't like how X person is posting? Ignore his posts, don't start a fight over it. =/

    On topic, as far as hard countering from Squiggly vs Peacock, how does Squiggly deal with Peacock's pressure game? Or is nobody playing RTSD Peacock and only sticking to zoner Peacock?
     
  10. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Since this character specific, like my above posts, this seems like it is best to ask in the squigly section.

    But we are here now. What aspect are you really asking about that squigly has problems with?
     
  11. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    I read that Squiggly has weak defensive options, so I'm wondering how she deals with Peacock getting in her face, working the GDO and M SOID pressure. Peacock may have slow lows, but her grab is amazing and slow lows don't matter as much when you can't block during pre-jump. Her item pressure is pretty good imo.

    Also, my post wasn't aimed at you Dime. I don't really see an issue with talking about specific character strats every now and then in general gameplay discussion. As long as it's gameplay and not some lore/guess how this character will play bullshit.
     
    Dime likes this.
  12. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    True true true.

    I don't really know how she deals with pressure in general, though having a run that moves backwards might have something to do with it...

    Whatever it is, it is probably the same way she deals with pressure from other characters.... Run backwards and zone with j.hp... Then use her super jump plus dive kick to ick fools that try and close distance... Sf4 style footsies I guess... Lol I'm just talking out my ass though, haven't even touched PC version yet.
     
  13. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    Does anyone here have any good option selects they like to use (outside of the obvious attack chain OSes during neutral)? I ask because it seems like OSes are something that almost never come up in SG gameplay discussions. Especially compared to SF4. Of course some of this has to be related to differences in player populations and time with the game, but I'm curious how much else is due to differences in input leniency.
     
  14. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Moved here from the Matchup-Thread, @View619
    I'm still looping if I change the chain starters. All that changes is how often I can do it. The stuff is even CALLED loop (Barrel loop, Boot loop, ..), for a good reason.

    Are you really telling me that this:

    4HK xx L.Toss
    5MP 4HK xx L.Toss
    5LK 5MP 4HK xx L.Toss
    5LP 5MP 4HK xx L.Toss

    is not looping?

    ♠♠♠

    And yes, Combos are still *way* too long. Being able to kill 3v2 / 2v1 with one Reset @ 1 Meter Start is not good - AND it takes too long.

    *IMO*

    - A full combo (c.LK starter, 1 Meter used) in 3v3 should do ~50% life of a character, in 2v2 33% life, in 1v1 33% life - and there should be Downs rather than Rounds
    - Neutral tools should lay on the hurt a lot better - either via upped damage + harsher scaling, or via giving special properties to some moves (eg Bella's 6HP gets a Damage Boost when not combo'd into)

    - The risk of reversal mashing should be higher
    The likelihood of correctly blocking a 5 way reset is rather small. If you guess correctly, the opponent is in most cases still +, or at worst at neutral. If you guess wrong, you take X damage.
    Now if you instead mash some reversal, it looks like this: If you guess correctly, you get a full combo. If you guess wrong, you take X+1 damage - worst case you lost a meter on supering
    On top of this, mashing is a lot easier - it turns a "Do I block low, high, crossup low, crossup high or do I tech?" situation into a "Do I reversal or not" one; the opponents mixups get reduced from 20/20/20/20/20 to being a 50/50.

    The two hits that one saves from going straight into launcher rather than doing c.LK>c.MK beforehand eg when punishing a DP are some 300 damage. In the current version of the game, a meterless combo deals ~7500. A 4% damage increase is not cutting it.
    With the risk of reversaling pretty much being 1:1 the same as getting hit by the reset, and the reward being a full combo, AND it being a lot more likely that you guess correctly, there is little reason to not wildly mash at all times.
    Getting hit during recovery should have you take loads more damage. With a combo off a c.LK starter being 50% life, a punish combo should clock in at 80 or something.

    With combos being shorter, resets being *scarier*, mashing not being the end-all solution and neutral tools actually dealing damage, the game would pick up the pace, be a load more intelligent to play and the damage loss (from meterless 60% to 1bar-50%) should be unnoticeable - if you ever played against a reset heavy Filia and decided to not Reversal at any point, you'd see that there is no damage issue even when chars only do 6 hit combos and have the current damage values.

    */IMO*
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
    VIVIT_rv00, Alstein and Dude like this.
  15. Alstein

    Alstein Member

    This is pretty much exactly what I don't like about SG, and I posted a long thread of my own in another thread.

    I believe this is also part of the reason you see so many solos online- folks get TODed, they get scared to play teams because if they get hit once they don't get to play.

    The real question to me, how do you solve this problem, without introducing something worse? If you're going to point out a problem, I think you have to point out a solution.

    My idea in the other thread was for those loops to add undizzy pre-level 5, that would solve the TOD issue- the question is how would you solve the "problem" of folks using wakeups so much because it's a better option then taking a reset. I'd argue that isn't necessarily a problem, because eventually the meta will make it predictable enough that folks will fake a reset and block to bait it, then get a full combo. (Peacock to me has a boost here because having Peacock in back means 2 bars for a safe YOLO super- I could even see folks putting Peacock 2nd just to do this)

    I know this is getting heavy into theory fighter now.
     
  16. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    I'm not sure adding yet ANOTHER exception to undizzy (loops add undizzy before stage 5) is the way to go (not to mention, how do you define a loop in-game?). Seems to me that reducing the undizzy cap would be a much better way to go. Maybe even just keep the 350 cap, but allow undizzy bursts in the middle of chains. If the undizzy cap is significantly reduced you could even get rid of undizzy decay.

    I am 100% there with @IsaVulpes regarding # of full combos for character kills. I'd like two for a trio character, three for a double, and at least 4 for a solo. (All depending on team size vs team size of course. I'm okay with solos getting TODs on teams of 3).

    I'm honestly starting to wonder if our desires to get these combos even shorter than they are now are counter to how Mike wants SG to evolve. Has anyone asked his opinion on the current length of combos in MDE (havent been on the IRC or seen Salty in a while). Maybe we'll just have to wait for his take on Third Strike before we get a game that is really neutral heavy.
     
  17. Alstein

    Alstein Member

    I remember Mike saying on SC once that he wanted undizzy to be stricter, but he was afraid the players would really not like it.

    as for defining a loop, that's a bit hard, but stuff like Valentine and Squiggly's 3*3 normals definitely counts. Maybe loop detection should occur when a special is used twice in one phase of the IPS as well (think that would catch the Bella/Filia/Double loops)
     
    Dude likes this.
  18. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    I don't really have a problem with limiting the number of loops via IPS (as currently happens). Two or three of a specific loop seems reasonable to me. I mean, one of the biggest complaints about the undizzy system in the first place has been that it's hard to track (especially compared to IPS). Further muddying the waters definitely won't be more popular than a straight-up cap reduction.
     
  19. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Gameplay discussion is not off to a good start.

    So much lose already.
    But I do agree with some points like neutral moves could get specific neutral only buffs when not combod into. And even more specific buffs like painwheels stingers do 350 damage currently iirc.. That means 40 or so to kill 1v1... To me, that number is to high. Of course painwheels fireball damage was put that low cause she can charge multiple fireballs... But this can be easily rectified by changing the fireballs damage over the levels... Like make lvl 1 fireballs do 1000 damage. But fully charge lvl3 fireballs only do 150-200 damage a piece... It's would make ALOT of sense and painwheels fireballs would make alot more sense than they did in sde before the flight cancel buff. And even with the flight cancel buff I still think they should do more damage...and be quicker on the whole...but I believe that for jus about everyone not named parasoul or peacock.. Fireballs and ranged moves in general could use some buffs.as it is the game is all about hitting with normals and converting those normals into full combos.. Not a bad thing but it is really skewed imho as far as what strategies are useable, currently.

    But that's where I stop agreeing. I like and have liked sg's cheapass resets since the beginning. I don't think there should be any further punishment for mashing. If you want to kill a masher... BAIT IT. or use a burst bait.

    I won losers finals of my evo pool with a super risky mash bait:

    Double barrel loop into throw reset after Avery hits is one of my standard resets with double.

    My opponent was mashing and based on what had happened earlier in the games we had played I had guessed that he was mashing Gregor to stop my reset mixup. So instead of going for low/throw reset at the appropriate time... I just stand blocked and got the free punish and the evo win. It was extremely risky because if I had have incorrectly predicted my opponents mash to be a super and therefor blocked, but my opponent was mashing throw tech instead... I would have lost flatout.

    Point being that reversal mashes are already super risky. Like literally if you have good burst baits it puts the fear of god into you for mashing... YOU WILL GET OWNED. especially offline if you are a stick player cause everyone can hear you mashing.

    But even online, good burst baits destroy defenses considerably ESPECIALLY against all the mashy reversal characters... Such as airborn painwheel, or filia in any hit state.

    And there is also the often looked over aerial reset that just straight shits all over parasoul,peacock,Bella and double.

    So in a point... No do not weaken sg's cheap ass resets anymore than they already have been. I don't want to play sf4. Or basically any iteration of a game where defense is easier than offense. I want to punish the hell out of someone for making mistakes and I want to punished for making mistakes and I would like a bit more emphasis on neutral via harder hitting moves or special point only properties. Everything else seems fine to me. Especially if it takes at least 1 reset to kill 1v1 or 2v2.

    I don't like tods that come from round start off of easy confirms and I am glad that the dhc reset hot hammered the way it did... Though I would have liked it better if it only counted toward normals instead of the actual supers as well.

    But sg is in my mind more or less going in the right path. Lets just not over fucking do it pls.
     
  20. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Um
    You are aware
    That making mashing weaker
    Would BUFF Resets, right?
    Who exactly proposed nerfing Resets?

    I can't follow your train of thought *at all*
     
  21. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    ...you can't follow my train of thought.

    Ok here it is:

    I DON'T WANT RESETS BUFFED OR NERFED. they are fine how they are.

    Making mashing worse and thusly resets better, is a ridiculously dumb idea in my mind when resets are already STUPID GOOD.

    And I also don't want resets nerfed cause I see all jindsof defense to them. So in my mind they are perfect and need ABSOLUTELY ZERO TWEAKING.

    That is my train of thought.
     
  22. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    You seem to be saying that mashing is risky for the masher, but give an example where baiting it was risky for you and not the masher. I think your anecdote pretty solidly supports Isa's assertion that mashing is a 50/50 situation.

    Further, to the contrary, I think mashing makes defense easier (not more difficult as you say). Why block the reset when you can just mash out the super? Worried about a crossup? Mash. Opponent may drop his combo? Mash and punish it.

    For my opinion, I agree mostly with Isa's post. Anything that extends the neutral game duration is aces as far as I am concerned because (at least in my opinion) that is where the chess-like strategy and therefore the fun are highest.
     
  23. GirlyStyle

    GirlyStyle Well-Known Member

    Parasoul
    Fukua
    Double
    Mashing gets beat by burst baits.

    Good Burst Baits lead to Oki scenarios, worst case scenario.

    Learning to drop your combos in the right places leads to the worst case scenario of still having advantageous positioning.


    Mashing isn't as good as people think it is
     
  24. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    @Dime_x , not sure I follow this quote... "I don't like tods that come from round start off of easy confirms and I am glad that the dhc reset hot hammered the way it did... Though I would have liked it better if it only counted toward normals instead of the actual supers as well."...

    Are you saying supers shouldn't add or activate undizzy? Because they don't. You can get undizzy above 350 mid-chain, then super >DHC > super and undizzy will not activate.

    Unless you meant something else?
     
  25. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Previously a dhc would reset damage to 80% now it resets damage to 55%.

    I would have liked to see "THE SUPERS ONLY" doing 80% damage along with the rest of the combo getting mandatory minimum scaling No matter how many hits the super was or if it hit or didn't.


    Basically I thought he damage for supers in sde was perfectly fine, it was the combos that followed the supers that pissed me off with how damaging they were.
    But the 55% damage nerf IMHO is to heavy handed to regular super only, dhcs rather than just dhc to super to full combo.

    Edit

    Example to make it easier:

    Double full combo to car to filia Gregor dhc:

    In sde the Gregor hits for 80% damage and the rest of the combo has whatever scaling

    In sqg Gregor only does 55% while the Normals do regular scaled, after Gregor damage.

    I'd just like to see Gregor (any dhc) get back its 80% damage but have any subsequen (non dhc) followup combo be hit by major scaling... And perhaps even an up in undizzy than what the previous combo did.

    My biggest problem with sg's combo system is followup combos after tag and dhc. Those are the biggest culprits to long combos. If those 2 systems received serious nerfs then the regular 1 character combos could receive less nerf.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  26. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    I see. I think I agree, though IMO undizzy would have to be decreased if we're gonna bring the 80% scaling back. Of course, I want it decreased anyway.
     
  27. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Good burst baits blow up mashing and provide no risk to the attacker. If you're really that worried about people mashing during your resets, learn to burst bait. Worst case scenario is you fail and get pushed back to neutral. Honestly, I find it funny when people cry about stuff but refuse to look at the complete picture, like "80%" damage combos. Does anybody take the red health into account, which, if you manage to get out of the situation with good defense, can be replenished and effectively reduce the damage of the combo done (this is the main weakness of Bella grabs; they can end up doing no damage due to red life regen if the point gets out). Hell, does anybody even bother trying to get a character out just to replenish red health?

    @Dime_x
    I think discussion is off to a good start, tbh. Having people complaining about stuff is better than no discussion at all imo; we can get some further discussion going from all of this.

    As far as mashing is concerned, it is not a 50/50 swhen you can literally make it a no risk situation through BURST BAITS. Instead of whining about the game mechanics and pretending like there's no alternative but for Mike to change something, how about we learn to use everything at our disposal?

    Personally suggestion for next update, I think all throw combos should do damage to red life. Keeps the threat alive, but gives them a bit of a nerf so that getting the point out to recover health becomes a more reasonable option. And before you ask if I'm really asking that throw combos be nerfed even after the damage nerf, yes, these are throws.
     
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  28. GirlyStyle

    GirlyStyle Well-Known Member

    Parasoul
    Fukua
    Double
    you can design your burst baits to end in such a way that leads to oki pressure for you, so to me that is the worst case scenario, but all the same...

    my main game and design around the way to play my team is a war of attrition, i would rather spend two bars to be able to turtle and get more life back then deal damage in a lot of situations.
     
  29. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    @View619

    I agree with all of that except throw nerfs. you do realize that throws have already been nerfed twice right? First one was the damage nerf. Second one was in conjunction with undizzy along with the fact that all throws iirc give instant stage 5...

    Which means that a throw reset done toward the end of undizzy... Doesn't effectively reset undizzy AT ALL.

    This makes throws good openers, but bad in general resets if you are using optimal combos or near optimal combos... And since undizzy is relatively easy to hit, it means that throw resets will always be relatively bad resets.

    The game is changing so I've changed my team along with it.

    I'm sorry if any of that is wrong, I couldn't keep up with the day to day version changes but tis is what I thought the last agreed upon version was doing.
     
  30. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    @Dime_x , throws put the opponent at stage 2 now.
     
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  31. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Well that's good to know. I take back what i said then.

    Though yes, throws don't need any further nerfing. And the undizzy decay still fucks throws in general around if they are really tight resets.
    Super tight resets being highly nerfed and whatnot. Which I don't agree with but whatever. That's why I use peacock. She shits all over the system wide nerfs. Her throw is godlike now cause of the undizzy and ips full reset into 50/50 plus her throw got majorly frame buffed as well. And she cares not 2 shits about undizzy. But it helps her defense plenty.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  32. Dude

    Dude I'm so creative I picked Dude as my handle.

    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    You've said this a few times, but I'm just not sure I buy it. Specials still add undizzy, so her garbage day into Argus stuff "doesn't give two shits" about undizzy in the same sense that it doesn't give a shit about IPS.
     
  33. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    Here the thing that you MAY be missing:

    Peacock as she is now does indeed shit all over ips and all over undizzy since her bnb into argus puts her nowhere near undizzy or ips in general yet still leaves her AT ADVANTAGE WHICH IS FULLSCREEN AWAY.

    Every other character has to maximize there followups to try and give reset in order to not be forced back into neutral, or to tod before there is another neutral.. But since peacock excels at neutral its almost never a bad idea to just argus the opponent back. Or if playing battery cock to just let the opponent recover from st.hk while peacock gets a free lk Bomb out on screen as well as a free item drop charge and another Bomb on deck along with an assist at the ready.

    Peacock AA into argus agony does stupid damage without ever being in ips decay or undizzy territory, while also not needing a good position to convert nor a full combo to do good damage.. While also getting the inexplicable good positioning after hit argus.

    And last but not least, peacock will take players MUCH FURTHER without big co,bos than any other character... And that means alot. Because when her players start to actually go for max combos into argus into item drop fullscreen frame advantage... Yo... This character.

    And now she can hold her most important item while still having access to st.hp... Which is some old like whoa type shit.

    Basically peacock don't need to normal combo to win and certainly don't need to reset to win...every other character does and that is why peacock shits all over ips. It was designed to nerf things peacock doesn't even need and most don't even use.

    -edit...

    He'll even bursts themselves are good for her since successful ones put her at fullscreenWHETHER SHE DID THEM OR NOT...
     
  34. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    What was the buff to Peacock's air grab, btw? I tend to use it as an AA option pretty often, so it could be pretty big for my game. This is specifically a mid-screen buff I'm asking about.
     
  35. DDB

    DDB Annie Train into Callie Station!

    Location:
    Oh god help me
    Steam:
    DDB of the Stars
    PSN:
    DiddyBound
    Ms. Fortune
    Beowulf
    Filia
    The trajectory at which people are thrown away was changed so she can combo into airdash jLK afterwards from anywhere on the screen.
     
    View619 likes this.
  36. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Aw yeah, Peacock has a real AA now! :D
     
  37. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    70

    How about you actually play the game, or at least read patchnotes properly before you .. ah whatever :/

    I don't think you got my point :(
     
  38. GirlyStyle

    GirlyStyle Well-Known Member

    Parasoul
    Fukua
    Double
    Wasnt addressing your post, was just making a general statement on my position of
    Mashing supers
     
  39. Alstein

    Alstein Member

    No one is proposing nerfing resets here.
     
  40. Age

    Age Well-Known Member

    Gameplay discussion =/= Game design discussion.
     

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