General Gameplay Discussion

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by Dude, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Shoryuken wiki is super solid. Some people claim it has inconsistencies, but I've not really found any. I forget who keeps it up to date, but crazy amounts of love for you, who ever you are.

    Also, if you have more general questions, put on "advanced" info in training mode and count the frames yourself. It will show you everything you need in an easily countable manner. Plus, it gives you a nice +/- at the bottom of the screen when you hit the dummy for at a glance advantage (when they are set to always block).
     
  2. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    One example is Napalm Trigger and Quake for Parasoul which are listed to have Invincibility frames, even though they don't have any. Also weird because I pointed out this months ago to a bunch of the guys who said they were correcting stuff at that time but uh I guess this never got fixed?
     
  3. Israel

    Israel Heart of Stones

    Location:
    Atlanta,Georgia
    PSN:
    Ipals_Shaolin
    Cerebella
    Filia
    Squigly
    *Facepalm*Yea totally forgot about that option in training mode.Thanks for tips guys.
     
  4. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Does anyone have dash frames?

    Shoryuken has relative distances eg PW > Para , but frames to determine relative speed would be awesome.
     
  5. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    I'm pretty sure that quake has invincible frames... Ive gone through shit with it... On accident. It doesnt have i frames on startup though...iirc. If it doesnt have i frames im almost positive it did once...
     
  6. VIVIT_rv00

    VIVIT_rv00 Pillar assist dependant man

    Steam:
    VIVr / vivitrv00
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    Quake just pulls back your hurtbox.
     
  7. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion


    @ClarenceMage

    Much of that post is true. But i do think you are sleeping on bella anchor a bit. To me shes just like big band. Like seriously, she and BB are so close to being near the same:


    BB has ssj xx safe dhc

    Bella has dd xx safe dhc

    Both characters have multiple assist options that are pretty good, both can chain supers. Both have crazy reversals of both the meterless and non metered kind. Both have command grabs, both have runstop style commands, both have excelebella types of moves, both have a double jump and no airdash, both have armored attacks as specials and supers, both have a dp assist style of move and a horizontal assist type of move.

    Only bella has a safe on block dhc though, and only BB has a non metered reversal that he can full combo off of anywhere on screen, only bella has a multihit lockdown assist.


    Also, the way you and i use BB isnt as an anchor per se, but as a 2 that gets dhc'd out to anchor... Which bella could be awesome at as well... Followed by the characters you mentioned as well... We already know that peacock, painwheel, and double use cerecopter well, and that painwheel and peacock use hlnl well, and though ive not seen double using hlnl... Something tells me that she would do ridiculously well with it.


    For these reasons i find it hard to see why bella cant be considered a good anchor. There's also always the whole:

    "Well this character is good right now so its good to use them right now" kind of thing. Like if this were month 3 marvel and i knew what i know now, but couldnt play in tournament or influence other players playing style... I'd totally bet on wolvie winning tournies or sent or wesker rather than viper or zero.


    Higher execution characters take time to get good.


    As far as I'm concerned, i like using pw way to much and no one can beat me well enough when i use her, to make me tier whore for another character in sg.
     
  8. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    i feel like there's no NEED to be a tier whore. nor skill whore. we need SPECIALIST in their characters and can function real well with their other characters to a high regard.

    kinda like "FukuaTwerkTeam has a REDICULOUS fukua but i don't want to snap in filia cause she's a problem too" type of thing
     
  9. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Not like "Spencer's PW is pretty good, but I'll snap in anything else because it's going to be free"?
     
  10. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    look, here's the thing. once people wisen up to "snap the problem" it becomes easier for the following reasons.

    1. the incoming mixup. if you do this right you kill that character and if you kill that character in the air you can snap in PW (if you ever run a 3 man team) and then would have to deal with more incoming mixups.

    We also don't exploit all of the game's mechanics at a optimal level.
     
  11. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    It does and it doesn't.

    The window to do much without an assist is actually pretty small and with as good as some tags are (like PWs), you can bet that if you can't capitalize in those 6 seconds, you wasted a bar and I'm getting my PW back in.

    Depending on who you are fighting, there are cases in which it is almost always a good idea (got me in a corner), but there are also cases in which it is often a terrible idea (mid screen).


    Add to that, at the top level of play, players are relatively equally proficient with any of the their team so snapping out "the problem" only brings with it a new problem.

    It isn't the answer to everything though since it isn't free (1 meter means a lot to a lot of the cast).

    For my money, I only really consider it when I've built up a lot of red health on a character recently tagged out. That way there is an immediate return on my investment (the elimination of all their red health) even if I'm unable to make a good move on the rest of the snap.
     
  12. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Why is it so hard to pushblock fast multihit attacks like fukua's fireball super and parasoul's bike super? for fukua's fireball, it seems like you have only like a ~3 frame window to pushblock the first hit and then you're locked out until the end of the blockstun from the last hit...
     
  13. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Is that what happens? I've noticed vs some moves that pushblock just doesn't seem to come out. I always thought I was wonk'ing my input.
     
  14. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    Pizzarino is a boss.

    I update it here and there, but it's mostly Pizza.

    I can never pushblock during bikes like I want to. Just figured I'm bad.
     
    Spencer likes this.
  15. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua


    Does anyone know what happened here? What I think happened is that I held back during BB's lvl3 start up however I also inputted UP right before the move started, invalidating my block however the preblock animation had no time to end so it looked like I was getting hit while blocking but I'm unsure exactly.

    I don't know if this is a bug or not, probably not. You can sorta replicate it with precise timing if you hold back and then quickly inputting forward or something before the super comes out.
     
  16. Evilweevle

    Evilweevle Of course i meant to do that!

    PSN:
    Mrfossy
    XBL:
    Mrfossy
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Squigly
    yea pushblock acts weird a lot of the time. there seems to be lots of stuff that you cant pushblock when you want to. im like 100% certain its not from a missed input either.
     
  17. PME

    PME R.I.P. Airdash Cancels

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steam:
    KPB | PME
    PSN:
    PMEmmanuel
    Ms. Fortune
    Fukua
    Robo Fortune
    So uhh... I think I broke it?...
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    In the previous round, I was trying to pause the menu on the same frame Fortune's lv3 was about to finish off a BB. Screen dimmed as if the pause menu was about to come up, but the game continued regardless. So somehow I got 571 wins...
     
    gllt, Muro, Luweewu and 1 other person like this.
  18. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Am I missing something or does every character have an easy burst bait 50/50 by simply launching the opponent into the air instead of finishing the combo at max undizzy?
     
  19. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    How are those 50/50?
     
  20. Broseidon Rex

    Broseidon Rex POWER UP!

    Steam:
    Will Drop For Diamonds
    XBL:
    Broseidon Rex
    Cerebella
    Maybe he means jumping after launcher and the defender either attempting to tech or go for burst?
     
  21. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    This.

    Jump back move -> Burst (As they're at max undizzy)
    Jump throw -> Throw (Needs to be teched)
     
  22. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Most characters have something like this. How ambiguous of a 50/50 it is depends on the character though. imo Fortune's is the most ambiguous.
     
    FuLLBLeeD likes this.
  23. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    I thought you knew that.

    Some of them are pretty poor though, like Big Band's is pretty much reactable, compared to someone like Squigly who can delay the bait sooo late it is almost completely ambiguous.

    Wow, kinda surprised you haven't being doing these, you've been missing out.

    If you try to tech a throw you will burst, so the idea is to set up a situation where it is ambiguous if you will throw or attack, some characters can get the timing much closer than others, making it really difficult to tell whether you need to tech or not.

    Some characters can also set up back into the situation at full stun, this is when it is truly powerful because when you burst it is a heavy counterhit into death. Conditioning your opponent to get a 2 touch kill is pretty great.

    Some characters off the top of my head who can do this meterless.

    Fillia, Squigly, Painwheel, Big Band(not a great mixup compared to most though), Eliza, retail Peacock, probably not beta.

    Can't remember if the others can.
     
  24. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    I've been doing them, but most are not true 50/50s in the sense that you have to commit very early and the opponent can easily react, characters like fortune can make better use of these burst bait/throw resets but in general just launch > button/throw is pretty bad.
     
    PME and Dime like this.
  25. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Probably alot better with airdash charatxers than most others since airdashers can airdashback after the burst airnormal and make the burst wiff.


    Airthrow/burstbait 50/50 is the strongest mixup in the game as far as damage is concerned. But finding truly unreactable ones takes some good skill for certain characters, and are still hard to pull off.


    Personally i think the mixup is TO POTENT though because getting burst baited as tomo said gives you a heavy counterhit starter... And thats AFTER youve gone all full undizzy via the previous combo.

    I personally think that bursts shouldnt get a ch modifier on wiff nor should they erase all the undizzy... But thats just me. I just think that they are a bit much damage for what everything else in the game accomplishes and that they are exceptionally powerful for a few select characters.


    To wit:

    If they stay in the game the way they are, i would want throws to no longer have as much scaling as they currently do. As it is now, the aerial burst bait does to much damage to allow for other types of mixups to be as powerful so it becomes the mainline tactic on characters with good throw/aerial burst baits.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  26. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    For some characters yes, some of them like Squigly's are really good even just off of a launcher though.

    Fortune can set it up off a fiber upper, oh yeah forgot that one.
     
  27. Jason

    Jason Not JasonD

    Squigly
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    How is launch into button/throw mixup bad? If your character has good air to air conversions it can be really painful. All you need is some good timing to make sure that you counterhit their throw attempt if they try to tech.
     
  28. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    burst bait/throw, they burst if they try to tech or get thrown if they expect the bait.
     
  29. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    What you are talking about is not what is being talked about here. The mixup you are talking about doesnt get rid of full undizzy and give super easy confirms like wiffed burst baits do.
     
  30. drewski

    drewski Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Delaware
    Steam:
    drewski
    Big Band
    Cerebella
     
    gllt likes this.
  31. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Its a day in the future...

    Beowulf patch is on PS3...

    What assists are left that have invul?

    Pillar/Updo/?/?/?

    I need something please. UH THANK YOOOOU
     
  32. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    LP Beat Extend
     
  33. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Hmm, thats all?
     
  34. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Beat extend
    Pillar
    Updo
    Bella dp thing
    Fiber upper headon
    Lk bomber
    Peacock mp bang

    I cant remember about fukuas drill.

    And the armored assists:

    Brass
    Battlebutt
    LNL
    Eliza sek assists
    Beowulf chairless cr.hp (easy to get because of beowulf stagger st.hk tag combos like everything)
    Fukua command grab


    And im probably missing some but thats off the top of my head. Everything is the same except mk bomber doesnt have invulnerability anymore and fukuas drill assist got nerfed i think.
     
  35. Bombad

    Bombad Active Member

    Location:
    Belgium
    Steam:
    Bombad
    Parasoul
    Painwheel
    Cerebella
    Also mp Bang.
     
  36. Izzmo

    Izzmo EVO Champ 2014

    Location:
    Germany
    Steam:
    id/laserskirt
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    Eliza
    Upper Khat also has invuln as an assist.
     
  37. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Drill assist doesnt have invuln anymore
    Sekh assists barely count since they got xx many frames of nonarmored startup

    Is this about "usable as a reversal" or about "has invinc"?
    Cus stuff like liza dp and bella ddrop also got invinc, but
    .. Yeah.
     
  38. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Usable as reversal preferably?

    LK Bomber still has it? I thought something happened to it.
     
  39. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Lk bomber has only 2 hits and a much smaller range now
     
  40. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Ah okay. Plus its Double.

    Hopefully I can find a new character. xP
     

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