General Gameplay Discussion

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by Dude, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Can you please not prioritise shit talking about me, over talking about the actual topic we were talking about?

    I put in all this effort to not only play your game at the highest level I can, but express my informed evaluation about your game. I am not just spouting random kneejerk bullshit, I have put in a lot of fucking hours into playing this game with fuck-all players in this shitty-ass country player base. Then you just ignore what I post and shrug it off as "ayy lmao theory fighter :^)", maybe without even reading what I fucking said closely (Because you sure as fuck already mentioned a bunch of shit you thought was your amazing points that I ALREADY ADDRESSED IN PREVIOUS POSTS).

    Is it because you think you're better than me? Is it because you're just an asshole? If I can't even talk seriously about the developer of this game about the game, then honestly I'm going to just write off your opinion about this game entirely as unwilling to change or recieve new information. Your understanding of the game you made is going to stagnate far faster than the people who care enough to break it down and play it from a player's perspective.
     
    IsaVulpes, Woofly and Shuffleupagus like this.
  2. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Idk what i said in that post that was so infuriating or even theory fighter. I only talk about what ive played against or seen, in general. I tend to save the theory fighter for my journal or pm's. Im just going to chalk it up to someone having a bad day.

    And not playing isnt an excuse, it just is what it is. Its not like me not playing much now has anything to do with the YEARS having already played the game.

    If my opinion differs from others... Well thats good. It means im thinking instead of just going along with the status quo Just because.

    I dont understand why we cant have civilized discussions like adults. It doesnt have to be all insults and snide comments when opinions differ, and having a differing opinion isnt in itself an insult.



    On topic:

    Are we still even on topic?
     
  3. Dean[SG]

    Dean[SG] Skullgirls Numbskull

    Location:
    Australia
    Steam:
    Dean[SG]
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    This is starting to escalate a bit, Please no more fighting :(


    Heh. Australian wildlife ain't shit ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  4. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Off-topic:
    clarencemage, about the asshole bit. Takes one to know one(couldnt help it). Now to unfollow and ask a different question when i think of one
     
  5. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    did you seriously fucking make a post just to say takes one to know one and make your text bigger to make it look fucking important

    are you fucking twelve

    are you mentally deficient

    can you please not contribute to the cesspool of low quality discussion skullheart has a reputation for

    can you please actually appreciate the context of what i fucking said

    can you please fucking read
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
    Cadenza likes this.
  6. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    And thats why no one likes to discuss with you it seems. To clarify, making my text bigger was not intentional. Now make one request because you are angry and just dont know how to make a good conversation atm.

    What is the original topic and lets begin from there. Also saying "fucking" many times makes you just as silly as i am. So please, insult me in a more clever way or continue to be cast aside. I dont really care and it seems not many do either.

    Next question.
    In regards to snapping. Is the meta generally accepted as never really snapping? Why so? I can only speculate that many think its not worth the meter.
     
  7. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Snapping is my shit

    Sign me the fuck up

    I'll snap all team orders to get to the weak links

    236

    MP+MK all day homie

    Or HP+HK whatever rocks my world
     
    Pickles and Datagram like this.
  8. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    No.

    No no.

    You need to understand one thing extremely clearly.

    The only content of your post was "it takes one to know one so ur an asshole :^)".

    That actively deserves ridicule and you need to understand exactly why the content of your post is not helpful in the slightest. You didn't contribute to the topic. You just called me an asshole for calling Mike Z an asshole, in the context of me trying to talk about the game and Mike Z deciding to make off-hand insults instead of talking about GAMEPLAY IN THE GAMEPLAY FORUM IN THE GENERAL GAMEPLAY DISCUSSION THREAD.

    It is absolutely CRUCIAL that you understand that this is not acceptable, is actively ignoring the context of the discussion, and provides no moving forward of the discussion whatsoever.

    Re snapping:

    Snapping is fucking good do it to rek your opponents team order and to kill valuable assists, doing it after assist starter and throw starter is great use of the opening since the potential damage from completing a scaled starter is an acceptable trade-off.

    The biggest problem, honestly, is that people's teams are often not good enough to warrant snapping.
     
    Pickles, gllt and Woofly like this.
  9. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    I dont need to understand anything because i already know the intent of my post. Calm down silly because making such a beautiful post riddled with obscene language is exactly what i expected of you. Rediculing is fine and then you take it to an extreme. Calm it. Also is that assement by your "shitty player base"?

    (going by your words here).

    Also if you're capable. Calmly tell me how aus sees and approaches skullgirls.
     
  10. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Snap all day long if they have that big asshole in the back clapping his arms and shit and making the teams defense stupendously good.


    Theoretically its best to snap a duos anchor in. Or a trios anchor in AFTER youve killed the first character.

    A clarencemage special is to snap in your anchor via your first characters dead body.
     
  11. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Dead body otg snap its very good yes. I do that the most if i see band. I look out for safe dhc's like fukua or pw or squigs. The idea would be to force a dilemma that they have to take a risk
     
  12. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Pick a character or 2 then put BB behind them. Turtle behind your assists and punish people for punishing them. Confirm assist hits into combo or blocked assists into mixups/pressure.


    Its my style, its everyones style out here in a nutshell. Some are more aggressive than others.
     
  13. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Is bb the essence of why "you" turtle?

    What does band offer you guys? Iirc beat extend is the preferred choice. Does that encourage turtling? If band happens to die then what happens to a typical aus team?
    @Dime_x what is the least used character? And is there a yt channel like amabane showcasing aus? I dont expect cm to show his matches and he's the only wellknown one unfortunately
     
  14. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    At various times people have tried to stream but it just isn't stable.

    Yoma can stream, I think, but not stream and play.

    Big Band is not as omnipotent as Dime makes him sound either.

    I'd say that trios are definitely more popular than duos, here, though. A lot of point/point/anchor. My team is kinda similar in that I don't want to ever play Robo last, but really I don't want to play my team when it is down to 1 at all, my team is about preserving life with pretty good synergy in any order. I often get my Eliza snapped in when I get her out on low life and that often leaves me in a weak position if she gets mixed up on incoming.

    I wouldn't say our meta is super turtley? We make a lot of use of defesnive mechanics though, most long strings will get PBGCd for example. Learning to deal with strong offense is very important in this game, I think, so I guess a lot of training mode team is spent on defensive situations rather than just finding more resets or whatever.
     
  15. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Band basically gives all of us a huge hitbox thatstops all aggression and gives us dead easy confirms and gives lots of lockout when called as a counter assist since he soundstuns. He also gives us a hugely damaging dhc qnd hugely damaging meter dump combos off of super easy and safe confirms.

    Least used character is probably a tie between mf and squigly.

    Yeah BB is the primary reason
    Why i and everyone elseturtles...well that and our terrible laggy defense. Its kinda a wrap out here once you lose your first character on a trio.

    All of our teams tend to fold once band is snapped in and killed.
     
  16. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Claws

    I love you but





    I use Beat Extend because it meshes extremely well with Robo-Fortune and helps her abare out, also really damaging dhc. I would also fit in the point/point/anchor, though my intended way is more like point/point/assist. If I had an assist as good for Robo conversions as BB and I actually enjoyed that character more (because unlike others I actually like Big Band :^) )I'd drop him in a heartbeat.

    Most teams I've seen that are made either don't require snapping because the original order is the best order to kill them (or they'll have Bella in the back in which case I'd rather leave her be as the last character and then run away from her like a little bitch), or they're shit so it doesn't matter lol (eg Val anchor teams, like lmfao why).

    Also PBAG and PBGC are gdlk you guys should do some of that.

    Also I can stream and I might as well just do that since I can't play anymore ;_; (give me back my internet you filthy aussies).
     
  17. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Cant you guys just record? Not strim. But record? Who is the least used character? And why? What are top tier assist in aus? Is it similar to us?
    @Yomabuddy
    Safe dhcs meaning from a distance. I can gregor from a distance into fireball and all you can do is parry. Same thing with squigs. No one dhcs upclose anymore :(
     
  18. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    No one uses SQ here because.... (EDIT: SnowedSmokey plays her but he doesn't play often and his SQ is wack) , a guy used to play MF but he dropped her because he thinks she sucks which is lmao, but he's picking up FU instead which is another character that's not as well represented, uh I think that's it? Outside of SQ and MF, everyone is played here, and there's two RF's (me and Tomo) and three BB's (me, CM and Shuffle), which makes those two the most popular.

    Outside of L Extend there's quite a bit of variety in assists here. They include L Tear Shot, H Beam, H Hairball, H Chair, H Spiral, Axe Your Head, SQ c.HP, I want to say the FU and DO assists used are H Drill and M Bomber but I'm not sure. All those assists are considered gdlk (EDIT: H Hairball is considered average by others but for my team it's neat so I'll say it's neat).
     
  19. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    The intent of your post was fucking stupid. Telling me off for swearing is also a massive waste of everyone's time. The only reason I'm not putting you on my ignore list for your insistence on stupid shit that doesn't matter, is also because of your actual desire to talk about the game and not be dumb about that part.

    My view on SG is the most developed in AU, and most core players default to my assessment of SG. Positioning is extremely important, baiting assists and playing safe is important, managing and using your assist/meter resources wisely is important, defensive mechanics are extremely important to master when the offense of this game is so strong. I would say that the biggest thing that causes a player to start taking more games off of me is if they bother to learn all of the universal defensive mechanics, use better defensive technology, and learn how my offense works.

    Making sure you don't kill yourself on pressure to L Extend and PBGCs is important so you better have a rock solid safe hitconfirm game, beating your opponent at neutral is a great way to avoid making pressure mistakes or getting reversaled.
    The best DP assist is L Extend, and it opens up so many options that you may as well just use it if you want a competitive team. Chair toss is a runner up that is under-explored here, which probably will mean that if you want a baseline playable team you require BB or Beowulf on it.

    Because Big Band is so played, snapping him in is very important because L Extend throws a huge wrench in basically every characters works. I am not exaggerating when I say that, because of how large of an amount of screen space it covers in conjunction with how fast it comes out and how easy the followup combo is for everyone, that it makes your life FAR FAR SIMPLER to have L Extend on your team, and your opponent must take that incredibly large consideration into account when trying to open you up. L Extend is also extremely good for frametrapping on offense, and dash jump crossup.

    Otherwise, because of our low amount and generally low skill playerbase, we don't have a large amount of exploration of the whole cast. Peacock & Valentine I think are top tier because of Val's ability to use assists the best and to avoid everyone's spacing all day, and Peacock is top tier because of her ability to control so much space and run multiple safe mixups and be generally extremely difficult to safely deal with once she has projectile advantage.

    Robo fortune is regarded as strong. Beowulf is seen as strong, PW is seen as strong, Double is seen as solidly strong, Filia is simple and strong. Big Band is strong with assist backup like MK Butt, alone he has some horrible matchups against some of the cast(Robo Fortune, Bella, less bad is Peacock & Fukua). Including him for L Extend is very very worth the bad matchups though. Fukua is seen as easy and solid but not particularly strong. Nuewt has impressed me with his Parasoul growth and I no longer think she's weak. I'm not satisfied with our standard of Eliza play though. Other characters are mostly under-explored and so proper evaluations can't really be made.

    Overall, the general idea in AU is to have a really well-constructed team that causes a lot of problems for your opponents and solves a lot of problems for yourself. L Extend is one very obvious route to team optimisation, and so I think that exploring X/X/Big Band or X/Big Band/X teams... or even Big Band/X/X teams is the most useful current expenditure of game learning and meta analysis.

    There will be a lot more viable teams than L Extend teams in the long run, yes, but L Extend teams are the "Vanilla" of SG as we see it. All teams should be tested against how L Extend contributes to a team. I personally think a viable team without L Extend would be Filia(H Updo)/Bella(H LNL)/Big Band(H Brass) because of just bridging into your opponents face far away with H Brass, at mid range with H LNL, and running filia mixups in their face. But that kind of team gameplan optimisation we do not really get to see in foreign teams. H Brass also sucks for characters that don't have terrifying up-close mixup game since it's too punishable and if the on-block mixup isn't bs then like why bother

    A well-constructed team won't prevent you from having to learn how to actually play fighting games well, but if two players are very good at fighting games and one player has a clearly superior team, the superior team will of course more consistently win. We believe we have a better idea of what makes a superior team than most regions.

    SG is a very hard nerd game that rewards lab time and hard thinking about it, which honestly we do not see the US at large do, at all. The US tends to believe that easy characters = top tier characters but when US players don't even evaluate, learn and optimise their basic options or play to make the most theoretically bullshit possible teams it's like we're not even playing the same game.
     
  20. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    So in short you think AUS is better than US? Because you make use of the system's mechanics, yes? These are my last questions. I will not bother you at all next time i have a question for the AUS.
     
  21. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    THE AUS

    edit:

    THE OCE
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
    Cadenza likes this.
  22. Dean[SG]

    Dean[SG] Skullgirls Numbskull

    Location:
    Australia
    Steam:
    Dean[SG]
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Ok this is starting to become an OCE/USA clash that i would rather not like, i would like to travel to the states on my SG pilgrimage without getting tomato'd and egg'd because ya'll can't get along :/

    When i get the equipment, that's ALL i will be doing. The lack off said equipment and software along with study is stunting that :'(.

    It's been a while since i have kept track but i rarely see Fortune or Val since so many drop out [or don't like playing me].
    Apart from, it's very well rounded.

    Show Spoiler
    Excuse you! 4 BB's, thank you!


    He is my Band Bae. A lot of people play him for the BE, i'll play him for the brass now, just to break the mold.

    As for turtle'in, maybe it's because a lot of us don't like getting close or just prefer playing the game "No you come over ere!"


    The "OCE". You're throwing the great players of New Zealand away by just saying AUS. :)
     
    gllt likes this.
  23. Mao

    Mao Buttons 'R Fun

    Location:
    Auckland, NZ
    Steam:
    Mao
    PSN:
    sussex4lyf
    Peacock
    Double
    Big Band
    Off topic but its probably better to count the people who don't play big band in OCE rather than the ones that do lmao
     
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  24. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    There are 6 bb users in OCEANIC out of around 8 players:

    Me, cm, dean, shuff, yoma, mao

    Only tomo and newt dont use him on their main teams. I dont know what tomo is on about but, this is the land of band, extended beat version.

    Also @Dreamepitaph

    There is current vid of cm up, destroying mao in like a first to something or other.

    -edit

    Its on maos youtube but i cant link for whatever reason.

    -edit 2
    I dont share cm's feels about oce versus the states. We including him would get horribly bopped by the states best players imo. I am however interested in seeing how far he could get in a tournament in the states.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  25. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
  26. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
  27. Vadsamoht

    Vadsamoht Well-Known Member Administrator

    Steam:
    Vadsamoht
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
    Looks like I got here after the drama finished, so I don't get to make jokes about turning the car around. I'll say this, though: if you find that you're spending entire posts arguing with/insulting/whatever another member without touching on the thread topic then you've probably gone too far, no matter how justified you think you are. Please don't do that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
    Dean[SG] likes this.
  28. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    No comment. just... no comment...

    I would say something about how Big Band is tough but rewarding once you get a read, but then again my whole team is made around the stupid fact that I get a combo go into Excellebella assist and taunt. I'm too shit tier to even be part of a useful conversation on the character I play.
     
  29. joshb911

    joshb911 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steam:
    joshb911
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    So here is a general question and something I've been concerned about for a while now. What are people's opinions of oki in this game. I was screwing around with double more last night and off Fugazi knuckle you get so many options on wake up. I don't know if it's just me but I don't feel that oki is being fully utilized at this stage. What are the disadvantages of utilizing oki in SG?
     
  30. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Well there is this


    CM also had some Fugazi > j.LK stuff that was really annoying to deal with.


    I think Double has plenty of other options too, but going for oki allows you to get a lot of guaranteed meterless damage.
     
  31. obregon

    obregon Active Member

    Hard knockdown oki has the same problem as most simple grounded resets: it gives the opponent easy access to all their reversals, including stuff like full 8 frame hitstop super -> safe DHCs.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  32. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    I've been trying to look into.. things. Mostly off sweeps but not always. I like the first one there with double because of the cross through but you actively have to guess which way to chase them (doing work, yawn) rather than gimmicking your way through (heck yeah) with some auto-correct nonsense.

    Show Spoiler





    or uh

    Show Spoiler




    fortune's hitboxez

    Show Spoiler


     
  33. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I have some tech chase stuff with Peacock where you can left/right them after they tech forward after c.HK. If they tech back there's no mixup, but if they're teching backwards away from Peacock you're sort of okay with that too, so, whatever. Uh, I have no idea how viable any of this is because I never remember to do it during an actual match.

    In general I think oki is pretty ok in this game as long as you have some way to beat their reversal attempt. Like obregon says a couple posts up it's super easy to reversal after a sliding knockdown, relative to traditional resets. If the mixup is left/right that's probably good enough since it'll reverse their controls which will screw up the inputs for their reversal (unless they're Parasoul). Otherwise you need like safe jumps or make the setup safe with LnL assist or something.
     
  34. Jason

    Jason Not JasonD

    Squigly
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    I do feel like safe-jumps have their place in SG off of sliding knockdowns and people aren't really exploring safe-jump OSes (as much as I dislike them). That said, if your opponent sees you doing your whiffed normals to set up a safe-jump timing they'll probably just block and pushblock, thankfully most reversals in SG aren't fast enough for you to need frame-perfect timing to safe jump them.

    Meaty assists are also a good way to keep your opponent honest on their wakeup and you already see Fukua and Peacock going for meaty projectiles off of sliding knockdowns. Robo Fortune and Squigly make good use of knockdowns to charge up their head drones / stances respectively without losing momentum, so I think it really depends on your character. Some character's can't even reversal out of disjointed meaty normals like Squigly's cr.HP.

    Somebody like Filia or Fortune who has great air-resets probably has no need for hard knockdown setups but other characters make much better use of them.
     
  35. obregon

    obregon Active Member

    It's not really feasible to safejump a pretty large % of SG ground supers because they're 3-4 frame reversals up close due to hitstop, and I believe there are two frames of landing recovery on a land-cancelled air normal in SG. In a game running 70 FPS under the hood... figure out a different mixup :P
     
  36. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    A lot of characters don't have real reversal supers. Even among the characters who do, I might be willing to take the risk. Like even if my setup isn't safe from Double's car, I might still attempt it if it's safe from Hornet Bomber xx Monster into full combo.

    I would never try to safe jump Bella though shit's not worth it
     
  37. Merlock

    Merlock Best skullgirl splayer mn

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Steam:
    EldritchVon
    PSN:
    VonEldritch
    Valentine
    Double
    Parasoul
    hitstop doesn't always apply because if you combo into a sliding knockdown they're going to have some undizzy bar when they get up

    if you hit a sliding knockdown raw then it matters
     
  38. obregon

    obregon Active Member

    Undizzy prevents hitstop completely? I thought it only made it so you could block their super if you were at neutral instead of already blocking. I was not in the loop when that got patched in so I dunno.

    Wait, can that be right anyway? If that's right I should be able to do stuff like DP out of a meaty c.LK on reaction to the flash if they super on wakeup.
     
  39. Merlock

    Merlock Best skullgirl splayer mn

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Steam:
    EldritchVon
    PSN:
    VonEldritch
    Valentine
    Double
    Parasoul
    if the person using a lv1 super has any undizzy bar, then their supers do not cause any hitstop

    other supers work normally, so you can still reversal with something like a lv3 or 5

    you can't hit filia out of fenrir or bella out of dynamo because they have startup invincibility, which is why you use a safejump so you land a meaty attack that whiffs in time for you to block if they reversal
     
  40. obregon

    obregon Active Member

    Uhhhhh

    Why can't I DP or reaction super out of my oki c.lk if someone does a level 1 on wakeup out of a hard knockdown while they have undizzy then? I'm pretty sure you have something incorrect.

    Like as a specific example, why can't Double cancel her oki c.lk into car in reaction to Filia doing wakeup Gregor if Filia's super has no hitstop?
     

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