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General Gameplay Discussion

I like how the conversation died down since the move to gameplay discussion. (I have nothing important to contribute)
 
Well id go into it at depth as to why things die in this thread... But people would just hate me more than they already do and not read my shit like they already do... Having said that.. The gist of it is that few to no sg peeps care to talk about gameplay. In a nutshell. And the few that DO want to talk about gameplay see it as a way to bludgeon others with there point of view rather than see it as a discourse for productive learning/dont know how to argue and use hyperbole/rhetoric/strawman arguments to get their point across... Much of which i myself have been guilty of at points in time as well.


But yeah, arguing with people rather than reasoning with them is a quick way to be unproductive and make others not want to bother.
 
Bingo, Dime. It sucks that you're right, but that's just how SH is. =/
 
Would you (directed to all) prefer this thread be removed and posters make threads that are more specific and focused on a topic?
 
I would prefer if posters used this thread instead of opening single topic threads like they do now, tbh. Maybe that way, we could see some activity here. Maybe if mods were more vigilant about locking/merging those types of threads with game play quickly, that habit can be broken.

Basically, it feels like posters would rather open their own topic-specific thread instead of add to game-play in order to gain attention. Stomp that out and they'll post here more often.
 
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I would prefer it if people got a clue. But since they dont... It really doesnt matter where shit gets posted.
 
I stopped posting because I seem to be alone in my opinion, and everyone thinks I want this change because I can't win without out it. Which clearly isn't true.
 
ThatOneOtherDude said:
I stopped posting because I seem to be alone in my opinion, and everyone thinks I want this change because I can't win without out it. Which clearly isn't true.

To be fair, there were people agreeing with you. They were just wondering why your list was lacking some of the more obvious options (anything Bella does, Fiber Upper). Also, it's pretty much impossible to remove the risk of invincible reversal into combos when you have Hatred Install, Cat Heads, Gregor, Lenny, etc as DHC options.

I'll agree that cases of one meter/meter-less reversals into combo sucks (when you get hit by it), but they're not too strong at all and you can do the same thing with invincible assists that hit already.
 
I agreed with him. But for me its primarily that "installs" of some kind or even peacock bomb... In my mind dont make sense to have invulnerable start up because in my mind that isnt really what they should be used for...

I get what he's saying. And even agree, but only half of what he's saying seems to be based on anything logical, and the other half seems made up/arbitrary (bella 360 not being there cause... Why?, fiber upper not being there cause why? invincible super dhc into install not being there cause why?)


And then other things seem to be there for little reason except to maybe give the impression of being fair.. Such as vals scalpels... I guess he meant air scalpels? But yeah.

I see what he's saying, its that i only really agreed with less than half of what he said. And i still think invincible assist into full confirm is 10 levels more bullshit than invincible supers giving full combo... One takes meter and is unsafe on block and not fully spammable cause of limited meter use, the other is spammable, much safer on block and gives near as many positives on hit.


In the end i just think that it is something that one has to tailor their game around the same way i have to tailor my game around bella 360 mash in resets so i dont get hit by that shit, and i have to tailor my neutral around updo so i dont get hit by that shit, and we have to tailor our air resets and pressure against painwheel to not get hit by thresher etc etc etc

The only thing i really agree on is that cats/install/bomb... Really shouldnt have invincibility. But imho thats just semantics. Actually trying to use them for the invincibility is crap. Also iirc neither cats nor install can be dhc OUT OF. So that in itself is also a good mechanic in my eyes.
 
Not sure if this was previously stated(I wont search through 9 pages of shit) But should players who only use one combo/avoid you until they get to use that combo be taken seriously, I'd like to filter out people like that. I understand you have a BnB but don't sit here and tell me you ONLY eat pizza,there's gotta be room for something different. I have like two bnb's per char but I generally wing it, or should I stop doing that and go on to Bnb only, which is 100% garunteed to happen on XBL, need a new corded pad.
 
SaltedIce said:
Not sure if this was previously stated(I wont search through 9 pages of shit) But should players who only use one combo/avoid you until they get to use that combo be taken seriously, I'd like to filter out people like that. I understand you have a BnB but don't sit here and tell me you ONLY eat pizza,there's gotta be room for something different. I have like two bnb's per char but I generally wing it, or should I stop doing that and go on to Bnb only, which is 100% garunteed to happen on XBL, need a new corded pad.


im not quite sure whether i should take this post seriously in all honesty.
 
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SaltedIce said:
Not sure if this was previously stated(I wont search through 9 pages of shit) But should players who only use one combo/avoid you until they get to use that combo be taken seriously, I'd like to filter out people like that. I understand you have a BnB but don't sit here and tell me you ONLY eat pizza,there's gotta be room for something different. I have like two bnb's per char but I generally wing it, or should I stop doing that and go on to Bnb only, which is 100% garunteed to happen on XBL, need a new corded pad.

Thanks for adding to the shit. I suggest a mod deletes this thread now, tbh. It's pretty useless. Or maybe clear it and we can start anew?
 
SaltedIce said:
Not sure if this was previously stated(I wont search through 9 pages of shit) But should players who only use one combo/avoid you until they get to use that combo be taken seriously, I'd like to filter out people like that. I understand you have a BnB but don't sit here and tell me you ONLY eat pizza,there's gotta be room for something different. I have like two bnb's per char but I generally wing it, or should I stop doing that and go on to Bnb only, which is 100% garunteed to happen on XBL, need a new corded pad.
OK, say there was a food shortage. People are killing each other for fucking cans of soup. Every grocery store in your state is raided, and all agriculture has been tapped clean of anything. Your friend who went out for food days ago reaches your house and hands you a burger he found.

Are you going to fucking complain about it having pickles too?

There aren't enough Skullgirls players for you to be picky. Play whoever and don't complain. Come on, now.
 
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I seriously doubt that was meant to be offensive as much as a stoop into informality (refer to the term "that's some tight-ass shit" or other such examples of slang uses of the word 'shit'), which is perfectly fine since this is, in fact, not a formal environment (I hope).

As for the actual question: Your BnB should be the best, most damaging combo you are easily able to pull off on all characters. If you're using another combo just for variety then you are probably limiting yourself (unless you are using an alternative that does a very similar damage amount, although once you pick up an optimised combo you won't be likely to find something so similar in damage), it's also not worth remembering more combos than necessary with all the other things you're going to have to take into account beyond "what combo shall I use today", so I'd say stick to a single BnB and focus on things that are more important than combos (which you can read up on if you plow through all the shit in this thread, yo, innit... uh... bruv).
 
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IsaVulpes said:
I have no idea what you're asking for? "I hate people who don't have 15 different combos"? Can't follow you at all.

P.S. Who are you that you think you're in a position to state this thread is 9 pages of 'shit'?
wasn't refering to it as fecal matter more so as a large mass of stuff i choose not to sort through.
 
@guitalex2007

I agree a ton. There is an element of exclusion at all levels in this game, and it is absurd. Instead of coming together, we often times have a "cool kids" type of clique which drives me crazy.

Though sometimes I do worry that being a little bit exclusive might be good with for the community. Not everyone likes getting smoked brutally their 3rd match in... of course, maybe we don't want the quitters anyway?
 
Decline matches if they're a laggy mess or the opponent has no manners/common courtesy whatsoever. Otherwise, play whoever.
 
I suppose I'll go ahead and use one combo, forever, instead of complaining
 
SaltedIce said:
I suppose I'll go ahead and use one combo, forever, instead of complaining

What you should stop doing is treating combos with so much importance. There's a problem if a player complains more about an opponent hitting them with the same combo than they do about getting hit in the first place. =/

Why are we talking about this though, let's talk about waifu's and which characters we want to see in SG2! Let's put some life back into this thread!
 
View619 said:
Why are we talking about this though, let's talk about waifu's and which characters we want to see in SG2! Let's put some life back into this thread!
there's gonna be an SG 2...why are we talking about that when this games still getting characters? speaking of characters, Eliza anyone.
 
Why is everyone getting so angry...?

I say have at least one combo for different situations. One for typical starters, one for ground grabs, one for air grabs, one for air-to-air stuff, one for that one move that hits a lot but doesn't lead into your usual BnB, one off of your reversal (if possible), one that leads into several different resets, etc.
 
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I mostly don't want to sit around watching the same thing on repeat, if I lose honestly fine, but if I lose due to repetition, not fine.
 
I personally have 144 different combos per character, and I choose which ones to use before each game by rolling 2d6 and multiplying by what hour it is. After all, the purpose of the game is to entertain my opponent, and not at all to reduce their HP to 0 using available ingame methods and resources.
 
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Yeah it's boring to watch Barrel Loop into Reset into Barrel Loop into Reset into Barrel Loop into Reset, and EVERYTHING Valentine does. But why would people do suboptimal things to please you?
If that's a thing, I'd like all Parasoul mains to not play the shit version of the mirror. Can we get a tacit agreement on that? I'm sure we'd all be happier this way?!

Honestly, the solution is to PUNISH them for doing something that annoys you. If they do the same combo with no variation, after 5 matches you have learned where they are gonna reset and then you got a huge upside compared to him who can't recognize any patterns in what you're doing.
But don't try to force people who prefer learning other parts of the game to abide by your rules. What if they're pissed off that they're fighting some guy who has no idea of any neutral game, but put the hours into training mode to know 50 different routes sprinkled with resets? I get really annoyed when fighting these people!
 
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IsaVulpes said:
some guy who has no idea of any neutral game, but put the hours into training mode to know 50 different routes sprinkled with resets? I get really annoyed when fighting these people!
did someone just summoned me or something? :p
 
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Kill myself, got it.
IsaVulpes said:
Honestly, the solution is to PUNISH them for doing something that annoys you. If they do the same combo with no variation, after 5 matches you have learned where they are gonna reset and then you got a huge upside compared to him who can't recognize any patterns in what you're doing.
But don't try to force people who prefer learning other parts of the game to abide by your rules. What if they're pissed off that they're fighting some guy who has no idea of any neutral game, but put the hours into training mode to know 50 different routes sprinkled with resets? I get really annoyed when fighting these people!
I've never played the same guy more than 2 times, but everyone does it.
 
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I'm still confused as to how anybody can be upset that their opponent only uses one combo. There are so many other things to be concerned with (damage taken, meter gained, how you're being hit in the first, etc) that this should be the last thing you care about. I'm going to chalk it up to beginners ranting in the wrong thread. =/

The aim of the game isn't to wow your opponent with your impressive execution skills, it's to win, even if all you do is abc super for every conversion. If you want a combo video, check youtube.
 
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View619 said:
The aim of the game isn't to wow your opponent with your impressive execution skills
that's the exact point of every game! :D
 
I'm with View619 here. The one combo is infinitely less important than the reversal/confirm/spacing/whatever that it takes to get into that combo.

Once you get better, worry about mixing up reset points and getting a corner combo to maximize damage, but until then, worry about your spacing, confirms, and defense which is what separates bad from good and good from great.

You can memorize all of Duck's combos, but that sure as hell doesn't mean you'll play like him.

Combos have been pared down to a meaningful and good length/damage, worry less about them.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
But why would people do suboptimal things to please you?
If that's a thing, I'd like all Parasoul mains to not play the shit version of the mirror. Can we get a tacit agreement on that? I'm sure we'd all be happier this way?!

What do you mean by "Shit version of the mirror"? If there's something silly or stupid about how you think other Parasouls play the mirror match, I'd like to hear what you mean.
 
Vulpes is talking the endless barrage of NAPALM SHOT NAPALM SHOT NAPALM SHOT NAPALM SHOT.

Which Parasoul wins is determined almost entirely by who gets off the first Shot.
 
Yes, I get that that is what he and a lot of people mean when they talk about how bad or boring the mirror match is, what I mean is what is it that people should be doing that they currently do not do to avoid that? Dealing with each other's momentum from Napalm shots isn't exactly a dumb gimmick if they aren't using meter (or assists, but that depends on the assist). Techniques like using M Soldier to briefly halt the zoning momentum or super jumping/super jump jMK floating do work a bit in countering Napalm Spam, but from full screen they are too slow to REALLY change all of the momentum because the recovery on Napalm shots are fast enough that the Spamming Parasoul can reasonably react by altering position and using a different shot timing/pattern or go in with their own offense at that point. There are definitely ways like the above to fight against zoning so it doesn't exactly turn into "2 People napalm shot and whoever has better charge timing wins until the other guy gives up and blocks", but I definintely feel that zoning really IS strong in the parasoul mirror so that it's something that you can't avoid (assuming the initial scramble or incoming mixup doesn't already keep the MU up close or in combos). Unless there is something big I'm missing (because I admit I'm cretainly not an expert player!) that completely neutralizes this? This is what I thought IsaVulpes was referring to.

Again, I'm only a solo player, so I'm not considering here how the MU would change with assists, as well as super meter which definitely changes the matchup but I feel like I see enough Parasoul players trying to do this that I'd have to inform them to play it differently. The biggest immediate thing that I see some Parasoul players do that I'd tell them not to is, if they are full screen, don't Super Jump->Float because it's so slow that they can just react and use MP Shot and they'll still get hit (I feel like closer than Fullscreen is fine, since at closer ranges MP Shot becomes riskier and you'd be closer to a range to land a jHP out of float).
 
No, I was talking about how [Napalm Shot]xN is really good to do, but completely boring to play.
So I thought I could just ask other Parasoul players to stop doing it, promise I won't be doing it either, and everyone will be happier!
This guy is asking other people to do suboptimal things purely for the sake of pleasing him, so I figured I can do that as well.

[I was not being serious]
 
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Is there a way to get training mode to call assists as reversal? I'm trying on ps3 and it wont call assist as reversal... Only as repeat or once.

I'm trying to find ways to beat mashed reversals/hit those 2-3 vulnerable frames, but the training mode wont play as reversal for assists... Is there some sort of trick?
 
Dime_x said:
Is there a way to get training mode to call assists as reversal? I'm trying on ps3 and it wont call assist as reversal... Only as repeat or once.

I'm trying to find ways to beat mashed reversals/hit those 2-3 vulnerable frames, but the training mode wont play as reversal for assists... Is there some sort of trick?

You can do what I do to test tech baits. Mash the ever living hell out of it for like 5 seconds and then put on repeat.

Though I'm admittedly the wrong person to give advice on training mode. About 90% of it is wasted on me.
 
Dime_x said:
Is there a way to get training mode to call assists as reversal? I'm trying on ps3 and it wont call assist as reversal... Only as repeat or once.

I'm trying to find ways to beat mashed reversals/hit those 2-3 vulnerable frames, but the training mode wont play as reversal for assists... Is there some sort of trick?

If you actually mash the assist in the recording it should come out as a reversal. It doesn't work if you only do it once for some reason.
 
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So I'm playing around with meaty setups, and I came across this intersting situation.

Against Fortune this timing is perfect since the grab hits meaty and the assist hits before she leave prejump.

The other characters are also interesting though. Double recovers too slowly for the grab's active frames to connect, letting her block mid/low against the assist. Filia recovers too quickly for the assist to hit before she leaves prejump and thus can block in the air.

Unless I'm mistaken, this gives a clue about the different timings for sliding knockdowns.
Double+Big Band+Peacock is slow
Fortune+Cerebella+Valentine is medium
Filia+Squigly+Painwheel is fast
Eliza+Parasoul is fastest? or just hitboxes make the assist whiff

I would interested to see more comparisons or even calculations that could improve safejump and meaty setups like this across the cast.

Edit: Tested the setup on the rest of the cast making sure it worked on fortune first for comparison.
 
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