General Tactics Questions

[Xephyr]

So after participating in the online tournament hosted by Keninblack, a couple questions that I can't answer by myself came to mind regarding my play...

In my last match against SonicFox I was told that I could have jumped over a random Daisy Pusher when the match was down to the wire. This...has not always worked in the past. I remember quite a few times before this tournament holding up under similar circumstances and the Daisy Pusher still caught me. What the heck are the requirements to be able to jump this move?

Then I got absolutely bopped by a solo Valentine in losers. My team is Parasoul (Napalm Pillar) Filia (Updo H) and Squigs (C.HP Cremation) and I can't for the life of me ever shut down the air game of a Valentine who knows what they are doing and it gets me killed every single time. I'm getting used to when throws are coming, which helps a little bit, but I still can't dictate the match the way I want to and keep Val from jumping and bypassing wherever she wants.
I know that Val/Parasoul is kind of a weird matchup to begin with so simple stuff to help with this would be great.

I'll probably remember more once i rewatch my match if Kenin posts it...

 

[tilopud_rye]

For Daisy pusher I think you have to jump before the flash- also if you are in the air it is possible to fall in the hole when you land. The grave retains its hit box for a bit so if you're about to fall in it you can try double jumping or air dash to avoid that piece of ground.

For that Val match you can use Updo / Nap Pillar to try to force Val to block when she tries jumping then either setup or jump throw while she's blocking, but a skilled Valentine has many ways of surviving such thing like tech throw, mash air super... I don't play Parasoul but there may be a matchup thread in her subforum for how to deal with Valentine

 

[obregon]

I also find Val very difficult to deal with so I can't give much big tactical advice, but one thing to know is that air scalpels does not have any hitstop like ground supers do. That means a lot of characters can input a special or super during the air scalpel superflash to counter it; for example at the correct spacing Parasoul can napalm pillar through scalpels, Filia can updo, etc.

If you have an anti-air assist and blocked scalpels/bypass xx scalpels aren't risk free on you, Val has to play honest.

 

[alexpi]

When I have Parasoul vs Val, I tend to do a lot of empty jumps or pokes with jumping jabs, shorts, and strongs. All three of those can be chained into a jumping HP on hit and you can get an OTG from any height to get a full combo. If you hit with a raw HP, you can't always hit the ground fast enough to OTG. Parasoul's jumping pokes have huuuuuuuge range. The only real trick is knowing which poke to use as all 3 hit different angles. While it won't cover all situations, as a general rule use LP if you jump first, MP if you jump second, and LK if you jump about the same time.

With Squigly, my game plan is largely to use double jumps. Val doesn't seem to deal well with characters that are above her.

 

[Jason]

With regards to Daisy Pusher - You can always jump out after the flash unless

A) You pressed a button and got caught or it was used as a punish (watch for the red counterhit flash)
B) Squigly used Level 2 Center Stage to add extra hitstop to the move.

 

[Xephyr]

That means a lot of characters can input a special or super during the air scalpel superflash to counter it; for example at the correct spacing Parasoul can napalm pillar through scalpels, Filia can updo, etc..

Does this work if I call an assist during that time or will the assist get stuffed?

 

[Jason]

I also find Val very difficult to deal with so I can't give much big tactical advice, but one thing to know is that air scalpels does not have any hitstop like ground supers do. That means a lot of characters can input a special or super during the air scalpel superflash to counter it; for example at the correct spacing Parasoul can napalm pillar through scalpels, Filia can updo, etc.

If you have an anti-air assist and blocked scalpels/bypass xx scalpels aren't risk free on you, Val has to play honest.

Actually that's incorrect. Air Scalpels has 1 active frame that hits during hitstop unless you crossup your opponent with air Savage Bypass before you do it.

However, if you aren't close enough to be hit by the first active frame (IE - you're not right up in val's face) then you'll get to act after the hitstop ends before the scalpels hit you.

 

[GirlyStyle]

With regards to Daisy Pusher - You can always jump out after the flash unless

A) You pressed a button and got caught or it was used as a punish (watch for the red counterhit flash)
B) Squigly used Level 2 Center Stage to add extra hitstop to the move.

yo i didn;t know that. so you can empty jump to bait it?

 

[alexpi]

only if squigly doesn't have a punch charge. Level 2 sing into Daisy Pusher is either 0 or 1 frames (i can't remember)

 

[Jason]

yo i didn;t know that. so you can empty jump to bait it?

Yes. If you empty jump she can't anti-air you with it, as long as you keep holding up when you hit the ground.

If you're Valentine, PW or Filia and have meter, you can beat Daisy Pusher from the air even if you press a button. Just do an air super. Unfortunately for Fortune (heh), unless you're really high up in the air Daisy Pusher will beat Feral Edge.

 

[GirlyStyle]

empty jump -> lockdown assist call on decsent sounds like a blow up then

 

[Evilweevle]

thats kinda weird it doesnt work against empty jumps. youd think daisy pusher would catch the landing frames if it is active

 

[Jason]

thats kinda weird it doesnt work against empty jumps. youd think daisy pusher would catch the landing frames if it is active

Landing frames are throw invincible if you empty jump. You can set the CPU to jump constantly and try to Daisy Pusher all day but it will never work.