Helping our Patients (Match Up Thread!)

Discussion in 'Valentine' started by Camail, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    What you need to do in the Big Band matchup is hover around in the air outside A-train range (you are Valentine, you know full well how easy it is to stay in the air with her)

    His (extremelty risky) "neutral game mixup" (which is more like pressure than mixup because you can react to every option other than A-train easily) just plain doesn't work in that space. Although you don't really have any annoying assists at that range, it does mean BB has to either approach or use his own assists to annoy you.

    You are only vulnerable when you are on the ground, watch out for BB's options and when he does something stupid like HK giant step, approach at the speed of Valentine and punish him, if not a straight up counterhit, then with pressure.

    Here's a little secret, Big Band actually doesn't like being pressured, not at all. He is so huge, he is susceptible to instant overheads and all kinds of stupid pressure that wouldn't work on any other character. He wants to get the jump on your approach, he is defensive in that he wants to counteract your offense with the correct defensive action, not that he wants you on top of him.

    When you are on top of BB, the momentum is heavily in your favour. SSJ is a threat if a good DHC is sitting behind him, but if not, on block he dies, on hit, you end up FULL SCREEN back where BB can't touch Val.

    EDIT: So basically, you want to slowly edge him towards the corner or make him use a stupid move/ approach you allowing you to punish/pressure him.
     
  2. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    What matchups does valentine lose?
     
  3. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Don't think she really loses any. Despite being rushdown she doesn't have that big of a problem with zoners that want to keep her out because she can punish people with Scalpels and she can jump over a lot of stuff.
     
  4. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Mirror match where the other Valentine counterpicks your assists
     
  5. Fedora_Ninja

    Fedora_Ninja Never asked for this.

    Steam:
    Fedora Ninja
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    She loses the ones where the the opponent has a dp assist and you don't :PUN:
     
  6. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    You mixed yourself up at the character select screen.
     
  7. joshb911

    joshb911 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steam:
    joshb911
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    What is the strategy against an aggressive parasol that keeps you in a vortex?
     
  8. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I don't like the MU either so I'd like a response too. What I try to do usually is stuff her normals with j.LP but it's usually a bait game for me.

    Almost every Parasoul I've fought has a terrible habit of autopiloting s.HP(2) which means they eat Scalpels all the time...


    Edit: Go take a look on the first page, I actually asked about the MU last year, lol.
     
  9. joshb911

    joshb911 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steam:
    joshb911
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Sorry I asked the same question. Thanks for the advice though I cant stand the guessing game lol
     
  10. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Dealing with anyone's reset vortex is difficult and you just have to adapt to what options your opponent likes to use. If you're eating low/throw/overhead mixup at the same timings, try using the downback->back->slightly delayd LP+MP+LK throw tech pushblock OS. Other than that, nothing other than to git gud, block and pushblock better.

    However, as far as neutral game goes, you MUST abuse the fact that Parasoul can only dash, backdash, jump, dashjump, superjump, and j.MK float as far as movemnt options goes. You have the ability to run, jump, dashjump, superjump, doublejump after all of those options, airdash after any of those options, and so on. This means if you're good at utilising all of Valentine's movement options, then you should be able to play keepaway from Parasoul to escape from j.HP swatting range. Why would you want to play keepaway? So that you can find a place where Parasoul overextends on one of her meagre movement options so that you can get directly above Parasoul, or whiff punish Parasoul as she tries for an ill-advised shot or whiffs a normal. Also,

    Parasoul cannot consistently anti-air Valentine with HK Pillar or anything really if you are directly ontop of Parasoul, so using your movement options to get right above her is very advantageous for Valentine, and using your neutral game assists to lock parasoul down to help you get to that position will go a long way.
     
  11. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Anyone got any advice on the Beowulf match up? I struggle quite a lot with him, especially his j.hp. I struggle with punishing/discouraging it and I don't really have any idea how to do anything about it when it is done from about mid range with an assist (I use lock n load on my Bella, but unless I time it so that it hits them in the air, they can usually just land and block or their assist catches her). I imagine using Val's superior mobility (both on the ground and in the air) would be a good idea against him along with dead crosses.
     
  12. JDbbx

    JDbbx Active Member

    Valentine
    Cerebella

    I'm having the same problem as a solo Val. I'm wondering if chp would punish it? Or maybe smp. I can't test this atm but I will soonish
     
  13. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Well, after trying a few things out in training mode against Beowulf's j.HP (haven't tried anything with an assist backing him) I found that cr.MP seems to be the best way to deal with it (though, unless you have great reactions, you'll have to know it is coming, especially online). j.HK seems to be a good aerial to use if you are in the air but this won't work as a reaction as its start up is too slow. sMP also works but it requires you to know it is coming and it is a bit harder to chain into cr.HP than cr.MP.

    As far as chickenblocking it goes, it seems to be really difficult to punish. You have to be just above the ground when you block it and then cr.LP and sLP should punish but I found that difficult to pull off (it might be worth going for a cr.LK for the low or use a throw if you can't get the true punish as you are at frame advantage if you chickenblock).
     
  14. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Anyone got any advice against Squigly? I really struggle vs her and I don't really know how I should be fighting her.
     
  15. Izzmo

    Izzmo EVO Champ 2014

    Location:
    Germany
    Steam:
    id/laserskirt
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    Eliza
    dash in and AA jHP/jLK with 2mp.
    prevent her from charging stances with shuriken or even catch her with bypass into a full punish.
    if you take to the air, try to stay above her
    use your assists to trade with/beat jHP, then confirm. the whole dragon is vulnerable
    reset her with jumping things, be in the air on her wakeup so you don't get caught by daisy pusher. you can shuriken/bypass on reaction to delay your landing and punish hard.
    super her when she uses raw sbo, getting rid of the orb and getting even just the super damage itself if you don't have a dhc that leads into a combo is more than worth it
    snap her out if you can deal more easily with one of the other chars. she's weak on incoming
     
  16. JDbbx

    JDbbx Active Member

    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Vs. Parasoul:

    clk cmk chp jlp jhp AD jmp(1) jhp clp chp:

    upback jlp (burst bait)
    neutral jump jlk continue combo (why?)

    all these crossups


    EDIT: for those who haven't found the timing:

    jlp jhp AD jmp jhp will cause you to crossup (without breaking combo) clp will hit Para behind Val and so will chp. From then on find your own damn combo/reset

    I like clp chp jlk(1) jmp(1) jhk(1) AD jhp crossup reset but it's up to you
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015

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