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How do I Skullgirls

Doble:
  • Launch, j.LP|j.LK, j.MP, (delayed as long as possible but still combo) j.MK will cross-under on j.MK's second hit. Ends with you on the ground and them in the air. May be useful at the end of a combo to go for resets on characters with no air super.
  • Speaking of which, find more combos that use air string > j.HK and start playing with dash/fleshstep crossunders for characters that don't have air supers. With this there should be a way to get some of those nasty crossunders where you actually crossunder twice with forward dashes in both directions, if not, dash + fleshstep should work. This seems much more reset friendly than standard barrel loops.
  • Peanuts' resets: Launch, j.LP, j.MK, break combo and airthrow. Can mix in j.HP instead of airthrow.
  • Slide, dash buffered MK, MK, HK will convert. Pop'n'Locker says dash buffered (3)c.MP works best and is easier?
  • Just fucking flesh step all the time.
  • Stop forgetting to PBGC > LK Bomber xx Cat heads instead of PBGC > Car!
  • Watch more keninblack matches for better idea of neutral approaches and openings via cat heads
Carol:
  • st.HK will pull them out of the corner enough to go for a flight crossup/reset. j.HK is the easy one, but practice the more ambiguous j.MK xx fly j.MK ones that hit on both sides of their physical extent.
  • Practice j.MP xx fly, j.MK conversions. Not sure why this is still tough as it is. Every other Painwheel on earth has it.
  • Figure out when the fuck you're supposed to be using nails and nail cancels.
  • It's time to put lab work in on PBGC > armored moves. The CH undizzy bonus is just too good to not take advantage of.

Mala Suerte:
  • (9)j.HP, (4)IAD j.HP is pretty gross when they're trained for you to land on the other side of them after the first j.HP.
  • j.HK, (4)IAD j.HK is neat
  • Play with more tiger-knee axe-kick. Seems like there should be a way to use this as an IPS bait somewhere when considering how much of her jump intertia she keeps after the active frames of the kick.
 
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hlvn said:
Doble:

  • Speaking of which, find more combos that use air string > j.HK and start playing with dash/fleshstep crossunders for characters that don't have air supers. With this there should be a way to get some of those nasty crossunders where you actually crossunder twice with forward dashes in both directions, if not, dash + fleshstep should work. This seems much more reset friendly than standard barrel loops.
You can do launch-> j.lp j.mp j.hp, land,jump j.lk j.mp j,hk, land, flesh step crossup. lk mk xx Flesh step + assist for the double crossup

  • Practice j.MP xx fly, j.MK conversions. Not sure why this is still tough as it is. Every other Painwheel on earth has it.
Its j.mp xx Fly, 6/9j.LP j.MK
  • Figure out when the fuck you're supposed to be using nails and nail cancels.
Whenever you feel like it/Whenever it's safe to do so.
 
hlvn said:
  • Figure out when the fuck you're supposed to be using nails and nail cancels.
  • It's time to put lab work in on PBGC > armored moves. The CH undizzy bonus is just too good to not take advantage of.
When you have more than 1/2 screen distance. I'll throw 2-3 to stay in place, and if they don't react well to them, I'll charge hp nail and fly in with them. Be ready to convert off of them if they are close.

pbgc armor sucks, and is simply very hard at best. Armor startup is not instant unless it's j.hp and most of the time you're going to get CH'ed yourself. I might have not done enough to explore it, but that's my take.
 
konkrete said:
When you have more than 1/2 screen distance. I'll throw 2-3 to stay in place, and if they don't react well to them, I'll charge hp nail and fly in with them. Be ready to convert off of them if they are close.

Thanks.

pbgc armor sucks, and is simply very hard at best.

Armor startup is not instant unless it's j.hp and most of the time you're going to get CH'ed yourself.

Yeah, it's definitely hard.

You're probably right in that the risk:reward and difficulty may not be worth it but I do want to give it a go against certain characters' more obvious strings with slower single hit enders.
 
c.HK armour starts up pretty quickly (4 frames I think), so there may be something there with use of LK Buer. That's all theory, but I can't think of anything else on the ground for PBGC. It's definitely harder for PW though.
 
The only pbgc I use with painwheel is deathcrawl. It's actually not "that" bad against predictable ground pressure.

Her armor is still a big ol question mark. Magic man is the only pw armor user worth a damn, but he tends to spam it and seems to get it wrong as much as he gets it right.

One thing I've now been experimenting with as far as armor is concerned is faking a jump armor j.hp, flight canceling it, then letting it rip with an assist as a protection on it like hairball.

I'm finding it decent because the first fake lowers painwheel to the ground, and the second charge is then close to the ground and can act as an airdash against a grounded opponent.

This seems to also open up doing instant full charge j.hp... Which doesn't seem to work well against opponent that haven't been trained to try and see the fake.

But I digress, it's still hard to apply.

Nail cancels unfortunately are best at full screen or near to there... They are super slow startup so they aren't great upclose.

Personally though, I don't bother with fully charging them that much, the simple lvl 1 hp stinger cancel is pretty good if you can find spots for it. It allows painwheel to go offensive up to around fullscreen.

The lvl2 version is also good. But the lvl 3 version is generally a waste of frames if you know what you are doing.

Lvl 1 mp stinger is good for inducing the opponent to jump at painwheel predictably... But that's about it.

Lvl2 mp stinger is really fast and will beat out just about any projectile thrown at pw... But it's super weak to jumpins and fast projectiles that beat it in startup.. Which is about everything so finding useful spots for it is a huge problem, all in all a weak move with what is known at this time.

Lvl 3 mp stinger is a weaker version of lvl2 mp stinger, but with a bigger spread.

Probably the best use of all her stingers with the exception of lvl1 and 2 hp stingers, is as jump bait.

All in all the problem with painwheels stingers is that they have both terrible damage, and super slow startup. Which is a bad combo.

The good things about nails is that multiple ones can be thrown on screen (like two lvl1 mp nails are possible) and they cover a big chunk of space.
 
Painwheel:
  1. Practice MP/HP Nail xx Fly at fullscreen.
  2. Practice challenging air to air with j.LP, j.LK, j.MK.
  3. Training room combo time.
 
jt3YB4j.jpg
 
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Fortune:
j.HP (above them) + PW cr.MP assist, IAD (backwards) j.HP/j.HK seems kind of stupid.
j.HK good for reach, j.HK IAD j.HK good for filling space against characters without good disjointed hitboxes on their air buttons.
DP like you don't give a fuck. This is not painwheel.
 
Casual with Peanuts:

Armoring through planes and medium item drops with j.HP is not terrible, but not good.

st.HP (and sometimes j.HP if in the midscreen sweet spot) is at least a gimmicky answer to BB rush punch when considering how much damage it does, but may be safer. Maybe worth using LP-Nail as well to keep him in place for as long as possible; may stack with the assist lockout.

No luck with c.MP armoring through a teleport crossup/feint, st.HP charging is always on the wrong side and peacock's st.LP or throw will beat the auto-correct buer. Was hoping the cr.MP's hitbox's habit of hitting both sides of painwheel would work, but doesn't seem to. May need to test more in training.

If you get a hit on Peacock, don't ever let it go. Getting in is just too fucking hard.

Flesh-stepping past bombs and under planes is not terrible, but not great.

Most of the teleport crossups seem to stem from racecar george and/or item drop as opposed to walking george.

Calling BB rush punch and teleporting for the crossup is like the slowest, most-reactable unreactable thing ever. Choked on it 100%. May be easier in the future when BB's coloring is finished and peacock's a little easier to see, but for now it was just.. wtf.

GGs Peanuts, thanks for the help.
 
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First games after two week break.

Not sure if there's legitimately something wrong with netplay or if ISP is to blame, but connection seems super terrible even against people I normally have great connections with.

Despite that, went 3-7 with konkrete. I was comfortable defensively, and didn't feel very rushed/terrified or like I was eating too many obvious things in neutral or in the corner. I played a bit more patient/intelligent than usual and didn't feel like I was making a lot of wasted movements. Nails usage (ironically stolen mostly from konkrete himself) seemed better and helps a lot more than I thought it would against Parasoul/PW. I think the total number of pillars I ran into was probably less than the number of pillars baited/punished, so I'm not too bad off there. There were a few combo > tear explosion resets where I was actually blocking but they still hit; not sure if this is a netplay issue or if he had some interesting tech going on.

Double needs work. I feel like I forgot 100% of her stuff that isn't jump around aimlessly and look for airthrows/j.HP. Defended well, but was actually too patient and got brought down every time. Can't block PW forever, and need to LK bomber and PBGC LK Bomber my way out of the corner more often.

Still missing j.MP, Flight, j.MK conversions.
 
Notes from quick set with Satan:

+ His double fleshstep crossup + painwheel assist
+ His Painwheel's judicious use of j.MK for pressure
+ Hovering over someone and rapidly changing sides while calling Bomber is kind of hilarious

- My offense really sucks. Spacing/Movement is predictable, offense is transparent with relatively few real mixups presented.
 
- Filia airball spam (vs. Painwheel) and random airdash shenanigans. Mixed results with tiger knee buers, would like more rewarding option. Trying to use the time to get into position for her landing or cross under her seems like the way to go, but never actually pays off.

- Filia is unblockable 100% of the time on wakeup. Spend a day playing solo Filia and get better eyes for the low/IAD shit.

= Throwing more seems like a decent interim fix for having poor offense, but I'd like more high risk/reward left/right crossup things from blocked flight approaches (see Negus vs. Sev, st.LP > Flight j.HK crossup)

+ The Skyking flight > midscreen airthrow from a pushblocked jump-in is working really well against Parasouls, albeit online. Maybe the rigidness of her jump/mobility makes it open? Other characters that may have similar problems?

+ the (corner) cr.HP, HK Buer, fly x LK Buer, fly x j.MK, LK Buer combo is sloppy/fun, but I think there may actually be a low/throw reset opportunity if you can restand with the j.MK and land cancel it, and it may be possible to preserve the OTG by falling with j.LP on the last buer much as you would for Krackatoa's combo with falling j.MK after the raw air buers. Needs some lab time in both directions.

+ Negus' technique with Double: empty jump (crossover), empty double jump (second crossover) while calling PW assist is working really well. I think integrating it with Satan's idea of fleshstepping for the crossup + PW assist is a good way to have two presentations of the same idea in case they get used to one or the other.

+ Continually amazed at the amount of people that get hit with raw tag to Painwheel when jumping/airdashing at Double in the corner. It's like the most budget/risky/pre-emptive Alpha Counter ever.
 
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Krackatoa also mentioned that (1)j.HP or (2)j.HP were the missing links for those j.MP, Buer, Fly x, j.HP, Buer air chains that are a problem on not-Parasoul/Valentine.
 
- Spending too much time trying to move out of the way of things in neutral/footsies rather than just putting jabs out.

- Spending too much time trying to block and not enough time trying to PBGC, mash super, or otherwise punch your way out. There were millions of point-blank parasoul dashes that could've been jabbed/armored, or crossups that could've been armor c.MP'd.

- Double needs a lot of work. Still feel like I have no approach outside of jump around aimlessly and j.HP.

- Absolute guards aside, there is no point in pushblocking someone away just to force yourself to run up to them again.

- Tech throws. Tech throws. Tech throws. Tech throws.

- Find something to respond to PS j.LP with.

- Sitting too close to the screen. Watching these matches on the laptop/youtube as opposd to the full screen I can see some of these approaches better than what seemed really confusing/invisible last night.

- FUCKING. CAT HEADS.

= Decent defense on some things did force safety bikes and other concessions, but it's not enough. Painwheel/Double is too momentum heavy to lose it and needs bolder momentum swings.

+ Missing two key chunks, but almost there on the Krackatoa corner route. Even without them, still better than what was being used before because of how front-loaded the damage is.

+ Consider how Noah uses his PW assist; he generally opted to use the lockdown for a crossup/reset rather than apply pressure/conversion directly after it. Smarter Damage/Positioning > Trying to apply pressure in a direction they're already blocking or chomping damage immediately.

+ Don't get discouraged. Noah is really good.
 
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Bella why do you have to be so fat

j.MK restands, why do you have to be so hard

 
Notes from QM:

- peacock/worldjem is still fucking untouchable for PDubs. Focus on dashing under HK George and blocking, consider/test assist calls to eat up projectiles mid screen.

+ general spacing/defense/patience are pretty good against online guys.

Negus Stream notes:

+ Flight may as well be an air-tech when Parasoul's doing the dash under high/low/throw thing from an air chain. Thresher if you're sure they're committed, maybe even falling j.LK into combo.

Apex match notes:

+ With Double on point, if you're pushblocking something in the air and your hang-time is extended, j.MP seems to be a good option on the way down. (see: Ken vs. Sage)

+ Apparently you can get both an absolute guard and a PBGC? I thought these were mutually exclusive, but it would seem they're not. (see: Peanuts vs. Painsley)

+ If you PBGC/Panic super with your back to the corner and it hits both characters, DHC to cat-heads. Sage/Ken both did this in various matches, and when used well with fleshsteps, it presents a chance to get out of the corner and turn momentum around. It may even be a means to convert an otherwise unconverted happy birthday into an assist kill.

This could be really tricky with aerial PBGC threshers since the assist only gets hit by the first 1-2 active barbs before the "throw" part activates and the assist hops out, but it may still be possible if the DHC happens early enough. Should work just fine with Deathcrawl.
 
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hlvn said:
+ Apparently you can get both an absolute guard and a PBGC? I thought these were mutually exclusive, but it would seem they're not. (see: Peanuts vs. Painsley)
Thanks for pointing out that I did this, I didn't realize how cool that was.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Thanks for pointing out that I did this, I didn't realize how cool that was.

It was pretty rad.

I love defensive/neutral tech, and if that works the way I hope it does, it'll be fucking incredible.
 
Taluda resets:

string > st.MP, st.HK (misses first two hits, connects third) xx Fly (6|9?)j.HK (Xunder)
  • Parasoul, looks pretty simple from any Buer, j.LP, j.LK touch
string > st.MP, j.MP, j.HK (very few hits, 1-2 for restand only), fly, j.HK (Xup)
  • Parasoul, will probably work with more hits of the first j.HK on shorter characters
  • good for midscreen, good for changing sides on the way out of a corner
string > st.HK, 9j.HK (Xunder), fly, j.MK
  • j.HK may be a super jump, or it may be Bella specific.
  • not sure if j.HK, fly, j.MK combos. it looks super wonky and is hard to see where the actual combo ends, but follow up with c.LK once everyone's landed from the j.MK
 
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Notes from quick set with @Choose Goose
  • Chasing Valentine feels like the wrong move, but so compelling.
  • Dropped staggering amount of combos [shoutouts to diphenhydramine and melatonin]
  • Nails are surprisingly annoying, but slowly lose ground. Need to get better at reading/watching the point character and trusting that my nails are stopping approach assists, and then keeping a mental timer on when the assist will be available. Especially for runaways like Val and Painwheel.
  • Generally losing hornet bomber call war. LK Bomber counter calls were stuffing my Double a majority of the time.
  • Generally happy with spacing against Double.
  • Need an assist kill combo that doesn't take forever and give them a thousand meters.
 
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Notes from FT5 w/ Skarmand:
  • Teleport + Pillar crossup is so fast. I dunno if this is something I should be able to see or at least read with enough practice, or if it really is just that good.
  • Attack above Peacock when flying in. If she has no options left but MP Bang, j.HK or j.MK need to come down from higher up.
  • If it's laggy, don't do buers in your midscreen combos. Even if it sucks, there's no point in taking mash damage for getting a hit and you can at least look to bait an assist call and armor/countercall for a carry/birthday.
Notes from QM:
  • Get wrecked when Fuzzy_Snugs goes ham with Squigly
General Notes:
  • Build an offense. Brute-forcing people doesn't seem to be working well unless it's obscured by hornet bomber. There needs to be more reads/confirms.
  • Be conscious of corner distance. There were so many possible max damage corner combos that were turned into something sub-optimal due to lazy hit confirms.
  • Get better hit confirms and take space more often. This full screen nail game is more solid than it feels.
  • Anchor Double can do anything. #nevergiveup
  • For some matchups, it's time to start putting some real thought/practice into Double/PW instead of PW/Double. PBGC LK Bomber > Car > Install, Luger > Car > Install, or raw Car > Install will solve a lot of problems PW is having with the characters that can transition from fullscreen to rushdown well, i.e. Fortune, Para, and Peacock.
 
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Midscreen LK Butt > Car > Install:

LK Buer xx Fly xx (TK9)HK Buer
j.MK, HK Buer,
j.LP, j.LK, *j.MK, HK Buer,
c.MP, st.HK,
j.MP, j.HP*, [HK Buer | Thresher if meter]

*thinking the j.MK can be flight cancelled for that weird MMDS blocked j.MKx2 crossup for characters that need to be reset on the ground

*thinking the j.HP can be swapped out for the j.HK > crossup j.HK Taluda reset since it's so high up for characters that need to be reset in the air

Damage is not excellent for the 2-3 meters spent, but it works for now and is at least 9k for a PBGC LK Butt.
 
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Thing you forgot to write down before you went to sleep:

Find greedy resets for Install combos
 
[salt]
 
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Hey, you're not awful. You slaughtered me pretty handily the few times we played last night. (That might not be saying much, but still...)
 
Tanarus Asamiya said:
Hey, you're not awful. You slaughtered me pretty handily the few times we played last night. (That might not be saying much, but still...)

Good games.

Don't worry about it, I was/am just frustrated with some things I feel I should be better at than I really am.
 
  • Do not try to raw Car on reaction unless you see an item drop or other special. Peacock can teleport, MP bang, and other options if she still has a special cancel left when you bite on a s.HP cannonball.
 
hlvn said:
  • Do not try to raw Car on reaction unless you see an item drop or other special. Peacock can teleport, MP bang, and other options if she still has a special cancel left when you bite on a s.HP cannonball.
By the same token I need to use s.HP more against Doubles rather than just always starting off my projectile patterns with bombs.
 
mcpeanuts said:
By the same token I need to use s.HP more against Doubles rather than just always starting off my projectile patterns with bombs.

Yeah, it was an expensive lesson learned from Worldjem.

Is there a particular special I should watch for in the full screen zoning pattern or that smarter peacocks know they don't get to do if I have a Car?

I know HP-Bang is totally off limits, but less certain about SoiD or Georges.
 
  • Practice corner carry: c.LK, c.MK, s.HP, fly j.LK, c.MK, s.HP, LK-Buer, fly (3)j.LP, s.MP, Air LK-Buer, fly j.MK, Air LK-Buer, fly j.MP, Air LK-Buer, OTG s.LP, s.LK, [s.MK, s.HP, LK Buer | c.MP, 6HKx4 + Bomber + HP Nails]
  • Max corner is up to about 50% consistency, still needs lots of rote practice.
  • Practice Double, Squigly, and Bella corner variations
  • Practice low/throw followup on max damage
  • Make complete list of characters you want reset on the ground, and characters you want reset in the air.
 
hlvn said:
Yeah, it was an expensive lesson learned from Worldjem.

Is there a particular special I should watch for in the full screen zoning pattern or that smarter peacocks know they don't get to do if I have a Car?

I know HP-Bang is totally off limits, but less certain about SoiD or Georges.
Any bomb or item you should be able to Car on reaction. You can definitely Car those moves on prediction. You should be able to Car HP Bang too, just not on block (gotta see it and Car before the shots make contact).
 
hlvn said:
  • Make complete list of characters you want reset on the ground, and characters you want reset in the air.
Ground: Valentine, Painwheel
Air: Cerebella, Parasoul, Double, Squigly
Neither: Filia, Fortune, Big Band
Either: Peacock
 
mcpeanuts said:
Air: .. Double

You wouldn't believe how many times I've caught someone with the air Moai after getting beat up for the entire match.
 
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hlvn said:
You wouldn't believe how many times I've caught someone with the air Moai after getting beat up for the entire match.
Oh well sure if she's got 5 bars she moves to the "neither" category.
 
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