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Idea for a Valentine buff.

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Alstein

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Yeah- I know Val is top tier and doesn't need buffs, but I had this idea.

Val's assists are generally considered to be crap, so why not do this.

give Valentine an assist that heals the point character like a few assists do in Marvel? Might make her more useful in back.
 
If you want an assist that doesn't do anything for the point character use poison load.
 
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Duckator said:
If you want an assist that doesn't do anything for the point character use poison load.
I once accidentally made Peacock's assist her teleport, sounds about just as useful, at least her load has a hitbox

I don't think this is a bad idea but the problem is it would have to be a move added to her moveset...which seems kind of useless in Skullgirls in my opinion
 
It makes sense for her character, adds another assist element and I would like it/use it because I don't really like her current moves as an assist that much, but yeah... new move and all that.
 
What needs to be done with Valentine, both based on her character, and it's practical uses, without making Valentine players mad: Decrease her defense or health, by about 30% but add a not-so-potent healing move. Decrease the damage of projectiles by about 25% but increase the range of her aerial projectiles. Move her tier 2 counter skill to tier 3, but make it so that it doesn't blow all your energy if you misread it.

That's my two cents, but meh.
 
One of the core design philosophies in this game is keeping all characters' health the same (in the respective ratio). As well as keeping all damage the same, which in practice is identical to changing health. So those are immediately off the table.

She doesn't get her damage from projectiles and with her air mobility she doesn't need a shallower air fireball, doesn't make any sense.

Making counter cost one more meter in exchange for not burning it on whiff is impossibly imbalanced. There would be know reason to stop using it.

Valentine does not need any buffs or nerfs.
 
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Alstein said:
Val's assists are generally considered to be crap, so why not do this.

give Valentine an assist that heals the point character like a few assists do in Marvel? Might make her more useful in back.

Not a BAD idea, but probably too much work and I don't think it would be that usefull on the end. I also think that if you have Valentine on the back and don't care for her assists, poison load can be quite cool, especially now that it stacks up to 3 times.

When I use Valentine on point (disclaimer: I do not use Valentine at all) I like to use Shuriken Toss as an assist, which is not extremely horrible and if you manage to load a vial before tagging her out it becomes an AMAZING assist for extending combo damage or resets (depending on the vial).
 
Camail said:
One of the core design philosophies in this game is keeping all characters' health the same (in the respective ratio). As well as keeping all damage the same, which in practice is identical to changing health. So those are immediately off the table.
Ah, I see. I was mainly poking at the ninja concept in fighting games, good speed, lots of hits, but no particular defense.

Camail said:
She doesn't get her damage from projectiles and with her air mobility she doesn't need a shallower air fireball, doesn't make any sense.
Right, I didn't really think about her mobility in that sense. I, myself, am still getting air combos down, so that didn't particularly come to mind, just yet.

Camail said:
Making counter cost one more meter in exchange for not burning it on whiff is impossibly imbalanced. There would be know reason to stop using it.
Well just about any other counter in a fighting game works that way. And it's not like her counter does much without being loaded, and it's not like you'll get four meters very quickly, unless the fight is already in the bag for you.

Camail said:
Valentine does not need any buffs or nerfs.
I'll give you that. I just noticed some people moaning about certain things being off with her, and wanted to attempt to satisfy everyone.
 
I do really like the idea of having a healing assist, but part of the appeal of the game is having moves you can use in battle be assists l, in this game it feels weird to have an assist only ability
 
DeathArcana said:
I do really like the idea of having a healing assist, but part of the appeal of the game is having moves you can use in battle be assists l, in this game it feels weird to have an assist only ability
It's not without precedence, though. Painwheel already has the assist-only pinion dashes.
 
Muro said:
It's not without precedence, though. Painwheel already has the assist-only pinion dashes.
To be fair pinion dash used to be a special before being converted to a lvl 3
 
re: counter not taking meter on whiff

LunaBlack said:
Well just about any other counter in a fighting game works that way.
Point me out some super counters that don't take any meter on whiff.
 
LunaBlack said:
What needs to be done with Valentine, both based on her character, and it's practical uses, without making Valentine players mad: Decrease her defense or health, by about 30% but add a not-so-potent healing move. Decrease the damage of projectiles by about 25% but increase the range of her aerial projectiles. Move her tier 2 counter skill to tier 3, but make it so that it doesn't blow all your energy if you misread it.

That's my two cents, but meh.
Lol, pretty sure that all of these changes would do nothing but make everyone mad. And if you decrease her "defense" or health, then she'd be th eonly character in the game without the same "defense" and health as everyone else.
 
Valentine's Counter is already much better than most counters in other games, because it doesn't have that "Hey I'm using my counter so could you be so nice and hit me please?"-flash thing.

Also "not doing much without a load"; if having a free very damaging combo you can setup however you want for possible resets, okizemes and what-nots isn't much then I dunno what is. In some situations it can be actually better than the loaded one.
 
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Domo said:
If Val didn't lose meter on counter whiff, she could just do it over and over and over again and win from time out lmao

Uh... there's a recovery period near the end where it can't counter anything and Val can't move.
 
Still I for example would be hella afraid to attack a Valentine. Reminds me of the nightmare of fighting Unlimited Hakumen on highest difficulty settings... that AI just cheated with it's counters. :P
 
This thread is stupid. Valentine is too strong of a character too be buffed. I personally believe changing the counter from 4 frames to 1 (or what ever number it is now) was slightly too much but eh im not complaining.
 
Mike_Z said:
Point me out some super counters that don't take any meter on whiff.
I'm fairly certain it "doesn't count" but in GGXX#Reload (not sure if it's the same in AC+), EX Dizzy has a counter super that only costs meter when it connects. But yeah, outdated version and "lol EX characters".
It's "fun" to toss them out without a care in the world but not something I think should be implemented. Only thing counter supers need IMHO is not having the glaring alarm like other supers...as is the case of Val's.

Anyway, just to entertain the healing idea even if I do agree Val doesn't need it: it could be done by using the vaccine throw animation. And I'm gonna add this little nuance - it can also heal the opponent if he manages to "intercept it" (though I imagine the chances of stealing the shot might be very slim).
 
Dawn111 said:
I don't think it's a bad idea to buff Valentine, considering that she is terrible when played as a solo character. She is fine when she has assists, but she is one of the worst characters to be played on solo.

it doesn't really make sense to balance something for 1/3 of the character dynamic that would possibly make her super OP in the other 2/3rds
 
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If you're wanting to give Valentine a buff, then give her an extra air dash. lol
 
I think that a whiffed level two taking a full meter, but still giving back one, would be nice. But Valentine doesn't need any buffs or nerfs. The healing assist would be something give Valentine something interesting and nice. I could see it only healing about a third or less of health or red life, but something is better than nothing.

But a good question to ask would be, "As an assist but would it need new frames?" Does Lab Zero want to do any more work on Valentine frame wise? I see it on a scale of probably not (Fortune getting Wheel of Fortune) to a straight no. It would only add more work to an already tight schedule.
 
Domo said:
If Val didn't lose meter on counter whiff, she could just do it over and over and over again and win from time out lmao

I've actually had dreams/nightmares where I'm playing SG and this situation exists and the whoever I'm playing (in my dream) keeps doing the counter and I keep falling for it because I'm bad (in my dream)
 
I don't know if this is a good idea, but personally I'd like to see some of the healing/power up/support assists from MVC2 actually find a way to be useful and cool here. Maybe an outright heal would be silly though. Maybe if you had a vampiric character down the road you could funnel some health to the point character from assist damage?

Dawn111 said:
I don't think it's a bad idea to buff Valentine, considering that she is terrible when played as a solo character.

All characters are terrible solo IMO.
 
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Squire Grooktook said:
All characters are terrible solo IMO.
I'd have to disagree (see: Zidiane's Bella).

But Val getting a heal assist buff? I'll pass. The vamp character concept's not too shabby, though.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
All characters are terrible solo IMO.

Against teams, I agree. Solo character fighting against teams doesn't seem like a good idea to me anyway. If I want to play a solo character, then I'll play against a solo character. Teams will play against teams.
 
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THIS IS NOT THE SOLO VS TEAMS THREAD. GO TO THE SOLO VS TEAMS THREAD.


=/
 
If you want to buff Counter, have her regain the 2 bars / gain 3 / whatever upon hitting it.
Make it better for people who use it correctly, not for those who whiff it.
 
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