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I'm Just Going To Say Stuff (Ask Me Things Too <3)

Seriously, guys... Is Painwheel even good? I laugh when I hit people with Pinion Dash, but it's so frustrating to play as her! I guess my biggest gripe is how irritating it is to air block, because of flight.
(I'm actually VERY interested in what you can figure out, Keninblack)
 
Painwheel is pretty good.

But she is not Peacock/Filia/Fukua or Bella.

She can be good though if you just play Taludas team, and literally just do that.
 
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keninblack said:
Some guy. He's cute as fuck though.

Painwheel (Throw)/Fortune (HK Fiber)/Cerebella (Copter)

Its pretty good.

He's placed like in a couple of skullbats sometimes but he has a lot of potential etc.
Cool!
Wait... as in Lp+Lk Throw? or the claw one?
 
This thread is cool I get to ask good players relevant things.

OK so here's a situation. (I want @dekillsage input on this one too)

You just hit two characters of different weight classes with a confirm. A full combo that involves an air string is going to make one drop and allow the other character to block. Or, simpler yet, you just hit two characters with a confirm, but won't be able to corner carry. Do you:

1. Go for a reset anyway because you can't corner carry or do enough damage to happy birthday
2. Do a simple combo that maximizes damage and will 100% work and hurt both characters as bad as possible

Why? Which is better? What is your thought process?
 
That situation doesn't happen with my team except when the assist is like big band sometimes
People always mash super I just block when it drops and kill the point. The best thing to do is to do a reset that will catch both the point and assist if you have something like that, otherwise why wouldn't you go for damage. There is no right answer do w/e you think is going to win you that game
 
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keninblack said:
I haven't hit up training mode with her [Eliza] at all and don't plan on it, but from the few games i've played against her she just feels as gimmicky as all the other DLC characters. Her mixups don't seem super strong I guess if you know but her neutral tools and buttons are obnoxious, and once again just filled to the brim with gimmicks. Nothing wrong with that though I suppose.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to what makes her gimmicky, as well as the other DLC characters. Even more so, how is the original cast NOT gimmicky in comparison to the DLC chars? I have no real solidified opinion on this, I'm just curious to hear your reasoning.

Edit: should make it clear that Eliza is the original "her" in question
 
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FuLLBLeeD said:
This thread is cool I get to ask good players relevant things.

OK so here's a situation. (I want @dekillsage input on this one too)

You just hit two characters of different weight classes with a confirm. A full combo that involves an air string is going to make one drop and allow the other character to block. Or, simpler yet, you just hit two characters with a confirm, but won't be able to corner carry. Do you:

1. Go for a reset anyway because you can't corner carry or do enough damage to happy birthday
2. Do a simple combo that maximizes damage and will 100% work and hurt both characters as bad as possible

Why? Which is better? What is your thought process?
If I'm squigly and I have the resources to, I would center stage into double snap. If I'm anyone else, I'll either bait a reversal or go for a reset. That's just me though.
 
keninblack said:
I haven't hit up training mode with her at all and don't plan on it, but from the few games i've played against her she just feels as gimmicky as all the other DLC characters. Her mixups don't seem super strong I guess if you know but her neutral tools and buttons are obnoxious, and once again just filled to the brim with gimmicks. Nothing wrong with that though I suppose.

Her mixups are super strong. Her IAD jLK > jMP/jMK is at least as fast as Filia's and her lows reach really far, not to mention she can easily combo off her air/ground throws.
I agree that sehkmet is one giant gimmick though.
 
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Duckator said:
Her mixups are super strong. Her IAD jLK > jMP/jMK is at least as fast as Filia's and her lows reach really far, not to mention she can easily combo off her air/ground throws.
I agree that sehkmet is one giant gimmick though.
Wait, You're here, Duckator!? For an Evo champ, you're never on the site!
Still awesome, though!
 
SecretlyEngarde said:
duckator is a kyoo-tee
...ok, then!
But I respect the duck call he used, don't know if he still has it.

(So, from what I've gathered, Sekmet is both the ultimate killing tool, and the cheapest gimmick ever, right?)

Would Eliza have been better if she used the Melty Blood thing? It would've been pretty cool. Better yet, That AND Sekmet!
 
Duckator said:
Her mixups are super strong. Her IAD jLK > jMP/jMK is at least as fast as Filia's and her lows reach really far, not to mention she can easily combo off her air/ground throws.
I agree that sehkmet is one giant gimmick though.

Yeah i'm referring to that little feller when I call her gimmicky. #smooch
 
keninblack said:
On the topic, i'm sick of not ACTUALLY having the best Painwheel. (eventhoughIdo)

Someone hit me with the viable midscreen and corners yo.

midscreen i just reset. if i absolutely have to do something midscreen to kill someone, oldschool flight carry combo or taluda's ground chain combo.

corner, this weird thing is like 8.5 for sMK sHP Buer ender, 1 meter no assist
or 9k 1bar + assist ender.

works on lights mediums and double, not sure about BB or Eliza yet

 
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This is like the last thread I expected from you Kenin and I can't believe I only found it now.

... I like it.

Oh. PW things, hm.
Always remember to call an assist if you go for FC JNormal reset because I think each character has a button that beats it clean! ^ ^

-Fukua 2MP-
[Voilent shaking]
 
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dMags said:
I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to what makes her gimmicky, as well as the other DLC characters. Even more so, how is the original cast NOT gimmicky in comparison to the DLC chars? I have no real solidified opinion on this, I'm just curious to hear your reasoning.

Edit: should make it clear that Eliza is the original "her" in question

Well every character in this game is gimmicky but I feel like the DLC characters have extra gimmicks idk its just a trend I feel.

Big Band and Fukua just in every sense of them as characters as a whole is just gimmicks.

Elizas Sehkment.

Squigly is kiiinda real but SBO is silly, she's also a gimmick in the sense that you can just mash out of pretty much eveeeery setup she kinda haaaaas???

So yeah, believe me Double, Bella, Filia to an extent, Peacock, and every other character in the original 8 (for the most part) have gimmicks but I mean BIG BAND AND FUKUA THOUGH?!

FuLLBLeeD said:
You just hit two characters of different weight classes with a confirm. A full combo that involves an air string is going to make one drop and allow the other character to block. Or, simpler yet, you just hit two characters with a confirm, but won't be able to corner carry. Do you:

1. Go for a reset anyway because you can't corner carry or do enough damage to happy birthday
2. Do a simple combo that maximizes damage and will 100% work and hurt both characters as bad as possible

Why? Which is better? What is your thought process?

I do the following situations personally, it all depends on...

-How I hit them
-When I hit them
-Where they are
etc

1. Going for a reset option is pretty good to an extent, but what Sage mentioned which over time I found better is that people forget what defense is all of a sudden when you're hitting both of there characters. If you can feel it, and you can tell the HB won't work. Just stop, they're BOUND to press something, than you dick on point. One thing that i'm actually mentally labbing with is the idea of reset setups in which BOTH characters stay if you do it right letting you setup an easy HB.

2. Due to my team I RARELY utilize this just because (ParaDub) has such overall low damage output that doing this isn't really beneficial anyway. To me this is kinda a "last resort" as I feel like most characters nowadays have ways of avoiding this way in most situations.

But yeah tl;dr...
Resets are dope, baiting mash is more dope.
Try to find resets that let you keep both characters in, they exist maybe with your chars I dunno.
http://www.twitch.tv/keninblack/b/578325550
2:09:00 is kinda lazy proof.
 
In other news, I think I can add Bella to my list of characters where "no matter how hard I try I won't be good enough with them" characters a long with Filia.

I noticed that with me personally in this game I need characters with "auto neutral winning buttons" so I can pretend I have "good neutral".

Parasoul J.LP
Double J.HP/J.HK
Fukua
Painwheel J.MP
Peacock Zoning

But since Filia and Cerebella have neutrals that actually require processing thought I literally have nooo chance. I can do all the nasty shit, my Filia is actually lowkey fucking nasty but how I hit with her is embarrassing.

Working on Painwheel (C.MP)/Fukua (C.MK)/Double (MK Bomber) though, due to the fact that my Bella is garbage. My Fukua is less garbage I suppose and it hides all my various flaws better than Bella does.

It just sucks, because I REALLY need to learn Bella because LNL is sooooooo important right now.

Also, I touched up on it just now, but a couple months ago I actually made a "offline player tier list".. its pretty interesting and kinda shows pretty well how small are truly skilled playerbase is imho, but obviously ego's would get hurt/stroked so I will never dare put it out. Its an interesting project though.
 
keninblack said:
Squigly is kiiinda real but SBO is silly, she's also a gimmick in the sense that you can just mash out of pretty much eveeeery setup she kinda haaaaas???
By silly do you mean ridiculously good, or do you mean gimmicky? I also question your second statement
 
zeknife said:
By silly do you mean ridiculously good, or do you mean gimmicky? I also question your second statement

Definitely the 2nd one over the first one.
 
Stupid question, what exactly is your definition for gimmicky?
 
Things that don't feel like they're an optimal thing to do but they actually are, or things that give you a reward that just completely out weighs the risk, but getting to this reward>risk formula takes little to no effort.

But overall yeah its pretty hazy and broad and its just my personal opinion, but I am REALLY stupid.

When I call something gimmicky though its potentially not a bad/negative thing though.
 
Bella isn't hard to play if you'd just slow it down and your peacock is too freestyle which is why people mash you out all the time. Your painwheel is the same, except everyone on quickmatch was apparently scared out of their mind to just reversal inbetween your pressure that had nothing to back it really.
 
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What do you consider players to have to be able to do, to be "truly skilled"? You mention that you aren't "good" by your own standards anymore, what are those standards exactly? I want to know your opinion on what traits constitute a good player, or at least what you think is most important, especially gameplay-wise.

I've been hitting a real ceiling lately in my quest to git gud, and it would be nice just to have some idea of what makes someone an advanced player in this game, and what I should be aiming to do or be, rather than just "I want to play just like tournament-winner senpai".

I'm not here to derail your thread, so I don't expect an essay or anything, it's just been on my mind a lot lately. I'm simply jumping at the chance to ask someone who understands the game better than I do, awareness is the most important thing to me.
 
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keninblack said:
In other news, I think I can add Bella to my list of characters where "no matter how hard I try I won't be good enough with them" characters a long with Filia.

I noticed that with me personally in this game I need characters with "auto neutral winning buttons" so I can pretend I have "good neutral".

Parasoul J.LP
Double J.HP/J.HK
Fukua
Painwheel J.MP
Peacock Zoning

But since Filia and Cerebella have neutrals that actually require processing thought I literally have nooo chance. I can do all the nasty shit, my Filia is actually lowkey fucking nasty but how I hit with her is embarrassing.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about both these characters lol. I'm so glad I stopped trying to play Filia.
 
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tell me dumb gimmicks with catheads besides h. giant step and h. osiris spiral
 
I want your real opinion.
Is Val a strong character?
Why?
Do you think she needs changes?
 
@keninblack my main question is in regards to what you said in domo's stream.

you were saying the game is about how well your point is with H LNL.

that's literally any character can mesh with H LNL. and if so what is your opinion on the best assist in the game in your honest opinion.
 
Keninbae bust out your wallet and give me about 30 Parasoul burst baits.

Shit I know kinda:
- 2MP* after LP MP [Tear ignite] Egret, or MP [Tear ignite] 4HK.
- JLP JLK JMK JMP, land, J7, JLP*. +JHP* if corner.

Both of these are only going to catch like Uzu or QM scrubs only.
(Uzu has a second arcade stick with all eight buttons set to raw tag and he just slides his face along it when he gets hit until he hears "NICE OF ME TO DROP BY.")
 
Ravendeth said:
What do you consider players to have to be able to do, to be "truly skilled"? You mention that you aren't "good" by your own standards anymore, what are those standards exactly? I want to know your opinion on what traits constitute a good player, or at least what you think is most important, especially gameplay-wise.

I've been hitting a real ceiling lately in my quest to git gud, and it would be nice just to have some idea of what makes someone an advanced player in this game, and what I should be aiming to do or be, rather than just "I want to play just like tournament-winner senpai".

I'm not here to derail your thread, so I don't expect an essay or anything, it's just been on my mind a lot lately. I'm simply jumping at the chance to ask someone who understands the game better than I do, awareness is the most important thing to me.

I'm really hard on myself and on this definition but to me its someone who can make top 8 at EVO, has the skill to do it, and arguably i'd say top 4.

Colossi said:
I want your real opinion.
Is Val a strong character?
Why?
Do you think she needs changes?

She is becoming more outdated the less neutral matters. She doesn't really have an overly silly gimmick except good battery but Peacock does the same thing just better.

Probably needs changes I don't know what they would be though, hell she might not even need them.

agent13 said:
tell me dumb gimmicks with catheads besides h. giant step and h. osiris spiral

Uh tea cup. J.HP into J.HK whiff make them guess. Uh yeah, catheads is not really a good way to open up an opponent its just a good way to demand that YOU are in control of the match. Its 2 meters and you get control of neutral for a brief period of time, which can open up to you playing your set play if you do it right.

Dreamepitaph said:
@keninblack my main question is in regards to what you said in domo's stream.

you were saying the game is about how well your point is with H LNL.

that's literally any character can mesh with H LNL. and if so what is your opinion on the best assist in the game in your honest opinion.

Not everyone, just Peacock, Fukua, and Filia get sooo much benefits from it.

Parasoul can too, but she also needs some type of bomber.

Painwheel and Squigly imho are better with Copter but i'm probably bias/dumb.

Big Band/LNL is cool I guess but BB belongs as the last spot.

Val is better with Copter I think but I dunno.

Double/LNL yeh but you're playing Double ;__;7

Eliza LNL is probably great.

Fortune is probably better with copter but yeah.

Lem said:
Keninbae bust out your wallet and give me about 30 Parasoul burst baits.

Shit I know kinda:
- 2MP* after LP MP [Tear ignite] Egret, or MP [Tear ignite] 4HK.
- JLP JLK JMK JMP, land, J7, JLP*. +JHP* if corner.

Both of these are only going to catch like Uzu or QM scrubs only.
(Uzu has a second arcade stick with all eight buttons set to raw tag and he just slides his face along it when he gets hit until he hears "NICE OF ME TO DROP BY.")

I've never had burst baits that I consistently use with Parasoul, i've been working on it kinda in the past week but right now I literally have nothing to share. My Parasoul has not elevated or gotten any better since about the middle of SDE's life span.
 
Set play. I'll make a little chart to showcase what I think the game is to illustrate it better.

But a really weird setplay "is he gonna reversal, is he not?" type thing.

Also the characters that can get the MOST damage before that green bar fills are going to end up being the strongest ones.
 
Also hi similar to me asking for Painwheel combos because i'm a lazy bitch.

Could I get some Fukua combos?

Midscreen/corner etc. GOOD ONES pls I know her dmg is real af I neeed dat.

Also is she gonna need to spend her otg to do damage? Or can we avoid that out here? My Fukua combo is STILL day 1.
 
keninblack said:
Also hi similar to me asking for Painwheel combos because i'm a lazy bitch.

Could I get some Fukua combos?

Midscreen/corner etc. GOOD ONES pls I know her dmg is real af I neeed dat.

Also is she gonna need to spend her otg to do damage? Or can we avoid that out here? My Fukua combo is STILL day 1.

here's the combos listed in the compendium i'm still making.

midscreen you can get 8k. enjoy.
 
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