I'm McPeanuts I made a thread

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by mcpeanuts, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Short update. Ever since I started playing this game, any time I needed to do Double s.MKx2 in a combo I would press the button like 5 or 6 times. It probably doesn't matter since it's the same end result as hitting it twice but I've always felt like it was a bad habit. Anyways earlier this week while I was playing I noticed while doing my combos I was only pressing the MK button twice. Not something I've consciously tried to work on but apparently I got out of that habit at some point. Neato.
     
  2. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Practiced throw techs more. Picked Squigly as the dummy and set it up to do s.HK > j.LP j.LK j.MP j.HK xx L divekick, then either throw or c.LK c.MK. Practiced defending that 50/50 for half an hour (switched sides after the first 15 minutes). Honestly with Liam's suggestion this is actually not that hard to do. Most of the time when I messed it up I did the throw tech too early; it's kind of surprising how late you can push the buttons and still get a tech.

    I realize the other player could do something like instant divekick or stagger the c.LK or whatever to beat this but if I'm positive the mixup is either low or throw this is a pretty useful way to be able to counter it.
     
  3. cloudKing211

    cloudKing211 King of White Puffs

    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    Steam:
    akiraxion
    PSN:
    cloudKing211
    Valentine
    Unknown
    Double
    Are you talking about down back delay throw tech?
     
  4. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Ye
     
  5. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    There's a lot of words here. I plit them up into each match you played at Xeno.

    Also, the vid is a little confusing, since I got the timestamps right as things were happening. Sorry if that makes it harder for you to use what I wrote.
    vs Datagram (open)


    At this point, you call peacock bomb while inputting luger (I think), so the bomb is backing Double's advance on downed Val. You go for low. I feel like you go for low the majority of the time you're in this position. It might be a good plan to grab when you got the bomb behind you. Also, at this angle it seemed like you called assist too early. Was it to cover a forward tech? If you called it after dashing forward, it may have either kept Val on the ground, or gave you a free grab attempt.



    You jump back with j.hp and do luger again, but get hit. You were too close to be calling that version of luger, I think, especially against an airdasher like Val while she was in the air. Even if Bella didn't soak the hit, it looks like Val would have dashed over the shot and hit you anyway. I'm pretty sure I've seen H luger be effective for this situation, and you saw him air dash at you out of j.hk earlier in the set. Against Val, I try to watch for j.hk, cause it's almost always followed with an airdash (I try to catch it with Excellebella, but h luger should work).



    You avoid the crossup by holding up back, so I'm not sure if you would have gotten hit, but he air dashed out of j.hk again. He's airdashed on every j.hk he's been able to dash out of so far. Especially when characters are using a specific move to cancel out of, you gotta watch for it. Like when people always do luger after fugazi.



    You call Beat Extend way too early and get stuffed. If you had waited for the j.hk to call assist you probably would have stuffed the air dash he keeps doing. You start catching onto the j.hk gimmick after this, cause you jump grab him out of it. Then you tag to Peacock. Honestly, if you were just reading those j.hk airdashes, you wouldn't have even needed Peacock until Val was dead.

    After that you start your Peacock game. It is what it is, there's not much too say on your zoning.

    Nothing super important happens the second round.



    You call Big Band while next to copter? Copeter could have snatched Big Band, it was still active when you called assist. After that you get a hit and put Data into the vortex. It seems risky to me.



    You go for a couple hit resets then a grab, but it gets teched. I think you should go for uncombo resets at this point more often, usually as Double after j.lp you go for grab. The grab there is fairly telegraphed.



    You go for a jump in j.hp and miss when you cross him up. You were probably reading an upback, but you were so close when you jumped that you probably could have done like barrel/teacup. It would have crossed up if he stayed on the ground, and you'd be safe after landing cause of George. You could have also done maybe j.mp or j.lp to crossup/touch him without whiffing completely over him. Touching him with anything and getting the hit would have killed, and not let her get the next two chances she had to live.



    You H luger and I don't know why. Missinput? After Bella comes in, you pressure with Lugar. I think it's probably important to think about the fact that if Bella deflects, even if it doesn't connect it'll kill the little George you called and get rid of that pressure. You're essentially giving Bella a chance to nullify that little bit of an advantage you made for yourself.



    The last thing that happens of note is you go for a delayed j.hp reset after j.lp against Bella. I'm not sure, but I think Bella could have been mashing and Dynamo'd you there. As far as I've figured, it's safer to reset characters who have no reversals in the air (like Bella, of course) by jumping back up at them rather than falling witha blockstring. If Bella blocks correctly, you are plus on block usually from about +4-9 depending on how it hits (noy sure how plus yours was, I can't get that string to work quite the same in training mode), but Bella recovers on the ground and can mash. I don't play Double, so I don't really know much, but I took her into training mode really quick to see if there was an alternative option and might have found something worth using.


    In the same situation you were in, if you made j.hp combo instead of going for the reset, you could jump at her and do some strange stuff. I was experimenting with j.mp, j.hp, but it wasn't super consistent. j.mp, j.hk works pretty well, you always seem to be around +8-12 after. Another thing was comboing j.lk (1), j.mk (2), j.hp (1), j.hk, then jump back up at her. Jumping up at her with j.hp, j.hk seems to be the best option. Getting her to block j.hk and the projectile in the air makes it +35, making her block the first hit of j.hk makes it +20, but it's usually around +11 with the projectile adding pressure afterwards. You can grab them after landing before the j.hk touches them.


    With that same setup I desrcribed, if you jump forward and do j.hp fast enough it'll combo. This activates IPS, which is actually a burst bait, and chaining j.hk after all the hits keeps them in the air so you can jump grab if they don't burst (crouch when you get on the ground to avoid the burst if it happens). If they aren't touching buttons, you can literally safely do this consistently forever. The only way they get out is by bursting the projectile, bursting after however many frames lets them block (I don't remember how many), or by bursting right before you jump at them. It looks super dumb, but I would use this if I played Double.


    vs Shade (open)


    Next match is vs Shade. At this point, you're peacock with a bomb and an item. I think maybe you were a little too cocky, you probably thought the item was going to hit the assist or something. I think in a situation like this, your assist is out and his is coming in, you should have upbacked and made space. He could have happy birthday'd you and killed double if he picked that up, the only reason Double didn't die was cause Shade fucked up.

    After getting knocked back, you wakeup with hk bomb, and you get punished for it. If you had done lk bomb maybe it would have come out in time to hit Parasoul, but she still was in a position to jumpforward j.hp and get a HCH.



    At this point, you I think learned he'll call assist when you're running at him, but you still get hit. First thing's first; you dropped the item on him while he was jumping at you. That was a good move, to prevent her from hitting you with any j.hk shenanigens. Afterwards when trying to get away, you airdash backwards and get hit. Fukua doesn't really have much she can do to you right here, so you didn't have to be in such a rush to get away. I think your assist was just about to come back, so you could have just jumped back and called big band if he came at you too hard. Another thing you might have been able to do after dropping the item was just dash back. I do that sometimes, and it gets me out of situations that jump back, dash back wouldn't have.



    I don't think you were paying attention here. As soon as you see Filia you should stop mashing. Parasoul could have also detonated those tears, or just made them expload with anything, which probably would have stuffed Tympany.



    This part was super unfortunate. Were you accidentally holding down instead of down back?



    I think Shade could have DHC'd to BFF and stuffed BB. I don't think he was super paying attention to his options.


    vs Cloud (open)
    Onto the cloud king matchup. You mentioned having trouble specifically with Double vs Val. We talked about potentially switching in Peacock when Val double jumped in the air and threw shuriken, but I think there's another option I hadn't considered until now. After the first match, you could have changed your team and put Big Band on point. Val was sitting at an angle your Double couldn't reach, so keeping Double on point is why there was so much awkwardness for you at neutral (leading to you getting frustrated). With Big Band on point, you can actually do m brass on reaction to val throwing shuriken and protect the bomb no matter where it is. Using this strategy, you could have slowly walked Val to the corner, a-training her if she tried to jump over you, with a bomb on the screen the whole time. The only things she could have done would be randomly calling out her assist to hit you, which you could punish with anything, or guessing you'll brass and throw scalpels. The super cancel period on shuriken isn't very lenient, as soon as the shuriken is in range for you to brass she can't super cancel, so she wouldn't catch you with that anyway. She would eventually get to the point where she's in the corner and can't even jump to avoid bomb or you'll grab her, and using l or m bomber instead of h could have helped Big Band not get bum rushed. There's an online set Sage played with Cloud where he used Big Band, but it's kinda old. Maybe looking at that can help think about this matchup, though.

    Anyway, onto what actually happened in the match.



    j.hp with Double is bad to use so high up when the opponent has a dp assist. I think you were a little unprepared for what to do with Double after you couldn't call assist as often, but you committed too hard here and got scooped for it. You should have backed up a little after you drop your link and kept him in the corner. He can't really air dash over you too high up cause you have hp luger to sniper



    You get grabbed. This is just Cloud specific, but he LOVES grabbing. If you aren't sure what he'll do, assume grab. If he hits you low, it's to make you block low so next time he can grab. At least, that's been my experience with him.



    This part was tragic. It's kinda hard to know what to do in this situation. I think the thing you did wrong was throw bombs. After he blocked the assist he landed, so he was free to do whatever he wanted. He could have even jumped and did bypass, probably. Another option, instead of throwing bombs, would have been to wait to see if BB hit. If he didn't, which he didn't, you could have jumped and hit maybe j.hp and kept item protecting you. If he tried to hit BB, you drop the item and super. If you really wanted to throw bombs, you needed to let go of item after you saw him touch the ground. If you did that, nothing he could have done at that point would have mattered. If he tried to hit BB, you would have just beamed him away after he ate a bomb. If he just blocked, BB would have left and been ready to call after the block string. Also, you almost always do hk, lk bomb. If you did lk, mk then the second bomb would have protected you. You should consider lk, mk bombs, especially when you're hitting buttons with your back to the corner and your assist out.



    Round start is c.hp, m luger with george assist. Maybe you should try h luger with this same setup. It'll cover people who jump over it, like Val did, while still making them block c.hp and have to deal with george if they stay on the ground.


    After Val blocks George you don't do anything. After doing nothing, you jump back j.hp and get hit. If you had applied pressure with c.lk string, you would have either caught the upback, or simply made her eat a blockstring. You just hit the assist, so Val has nothing protecting her.



    Some crazy stuff here. Cloud has established a pattern of calling Filia after blocking j.hp. I would have tried to do j.hp and call BB. Idk if that works, but that looks like a move that would have kept you safe. You could have called BB and did c.lk to get the low and confirm if it hit.


    The next bit is Double mirror. I don't know a whole lot about Double, so idk what to tell you here. There is one thing, though.





    Those two points, I'm pretty sure you could have Alpha Countered to BB and scooped Double out of j.hp. That's an important tool to keep in mind against another Double, especially since j.hp is such a popular move.



    Here you get hit out of a grab attempt. You saw her in j.hk startup, from that she literally can't block at all so you're mostly free to do j.hp. Every time against Val you've done j.hp vs her j.hk you've won, there wasn't any need to try to grab.



    At this point, you're just holding upback without payign attention to what's happening. You seem kinda burnt out. Filia did c.hk and called a low assist, there was no possible overhead or even grab that was coming at you, so you should be holding downback in this situation.

    Nothing particularly noteworthy happened the rest of the match. Some nerves coming into play.



    vs Mattlock (open)


    Everything is good up until this point. When I'm zoning and they're suddenly a lot closer than I'd like, I try to get that mk bomb out there to protect me.



    Just curious, why didn't you airdahs backwards after jumping away?



    bad alpha counter. You should be trying to alpha counter the j.mp's, or the j.hk's against Robo. Pretty sure those two get blown up by alpha counter beat extend.


    Not much else to say on the Matlock match.


    vs Lazy (open)
    Final match vs Lazy. He makes the most out of your mistakes, even more so than cloud, so there is collectively less to say than other matches.



    Not much you can do about skeleton assist, but if you had pushblocked you could have blocked both directions. That's what I do when blocking skeleton.


    After that you have an unfortunate fumble on a crossunder, which is super unfortunate cause you guessed right and he is upbacking. That landing and maybe one reset could have killed Fortune and started off the set in your favor. I don't think Eliza by herself could have beat your team if you tagged in Peacock immediately if you killed Fortune here.



    Eliza was out, so any armor thing you do, any thing you do in general, would get stuffed. Nothing else do do but block.



    You do l luger, but Fortune can run/crouch/c.lk/whatever under those. I think m luger would have been better. After you make her block j.hp, you jump in again. You might have been better off jumping away with j.hk or j.hp until your assist came back up (you use beat to get a clean hit like 5 seconds later anyway, so it is a strategy that worked against him).



    After Peacock comes in you do a really good job up until you fumble another reset. Landing this would have killed Fortune. It's the second chance you have at killing Fortune that doesn't go your way, it really sucks. Killing her either time would have secured you that game.



    I can't tell if the first hit of sekhmet was a crossup, honestly, but after s.mp sekhmet is always the next thing people throw out. s.mp never gets used in combos unless for this purpose.



    I think at this point you're just calling things. Double doesn't have any invincibility, but you called her against a Fortune backed by Eliza assist. I think you want mp bang before Peacock gets hit, idk what happened or what you hit instead of that.



    Against this assist in the air, I wouldn't pushblock. Well... sometimes I do out of habit. But it doesn't do anything for you, just keeps you in the air longer. Afterwards, you get happy birthday'd. It seems like you thought he was going to stay in front of you. If he did, what you did would have worked, or at least not gotten you killed.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  6. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    0_0 goddam Zid. You said you were gonna look over these but I didn't think you'd write this much. My browser actually crashed at one point cause I had too many of the videos up simultaneously. There's some good tips here. I do always go for that Double plink grab after my assist hits and I think everyone other than Tommer has figured it out so I really should start doing another reset there. M Luger is probably a good idea against Fortune since she can low profile the gun. I really should have tried to grab Cloud more... I'm always the one telling people to grab players who are using DP assists but here I am not following my own advice. And there's a bunch of other good suggestions in there too, I don't have time to quote everything but I do appreciate the tips.

    Some of this is kind of results oriented though? Like "you got hit with this thing so you shouldn't have done it." I don't really agree with that in general, I think sometimes you do the right thing and it doesn't work, or you do the wrong thing and it does. What I want is to be always doing the thing that gives me the highest probability of success, not necessarily the thing that would work right there. Also I think you're overestimating my reactions in some of these, like "why'd you H luger when he was nowhere near you" man IDK I thought maybe he'd jump

    Few other random things:

    I was trying to SSJ. I'm not very good at reversals so stuff like this happens all the time. If Big Band gets hit and it doesn't make any sense why, that's usually why.

    Alpha counter Beat Extend punishes Robo c.MP, I just timed it wrong. It punishes every c.MP, c.MK, s.MP and s.MK in the game, actually, or at least all the ones I checked which was a lot. You never want to alpha counter against a jump-in though, it just turns whatever they're doing into a safe jump.

    I'll explain it when I do the video analysis, it's actually wild.

    Speaking of the video analysis. I meant to have it done by now, at least the Cloud and Diablos matches, but I haven't gotten to it. My goal was to practice Skullgirls for at least 3 hours every day until Combo Breaker, and I've actually stuck to that, but even though I'm dedicating 3 hours to Skullgirls I still haven't found the time for video analysis. Yesterday was Geno's tournament, the day after that I played you in a long set, Monday... on Monday I actually started to record the analysis, but I noticed something in Cloud's match, and I spent the whole day labbing it.

    There's a point in the Cloud match where I L Hornet Bomber xx Monster, and it hits, and I still feel like it was a mistake. I felt like it was a mistake at the time. It means I didn't have the two bars I need to mash super and DHC to Peacock if I dropped the combo and Double immediately died (which is actually what happened). That got me thinking though, what if I can tag in Peacock after Monster hits and keep the combo going? Normally if I'm doing L Bomber, it means Double is hurt and I want to get her out, and if would be great if I could do that. After spending all night on it, it turns out, yeah, you can totally do that. There's a few things you can do after L Bomber xx Monster > Peacock tag that'll work:

    j.LP j.LK j.MP - this seems like the most consistent way to combo after the Monster then tag. The issue is, you've used your OTG and both of your light buttons, so you can't really do much of a combo. You can't use your assist either. Omitting the j.LK doesn't work either, I tried that, you really do need both light air normals. I can do this and then just go for an immediate reset or burst bait but it still feels like I should be able to do better. It's also hard on Bella for some reason.
    s.MK - This works and probably leads to a better combo but it's too hard for me to do consistently. Caio probably would have no problem with it though.
    c.MP - 2 frames faster than s.MK so the link is a lot easier, I can get this most of the time. I don't think you can do anything after though. c.MP s.MK doesn't combo if they're airborne, the c.MP pushes them too far away for that or anything else to combo. This is probably useless.
    dash s.LP - this feels like it should work but it doesn't! Ahhh! So frustrating.
    L Bomb - Relatively easy to get this link but like c.MP you can't get anything after.

    Tagging in Big Band is way easier, you just L Beat Extend. It's extremely easy. It's unusual I'd want to tag to Big Band there, though. Tagging in Peacock is where the money is.

    That's about what I got... I guess I'll go with the j.LP thing but I wanted to put this out there to see if anyone had any suggestions on what to do after L Bomber xx Monster > Peacock tag. Gonna tag my favorite combo wizard @CaioLugon to see if he's got any input.
     
  7. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    lol. I was serious about wanting us to get better, so I put all the effort I could into this.

    When I go through my stuff, I always look for what in a specific situation would have worked instead. Even if I don't do it every time, if I know it works in x situation then in the future, in that situation, I'll think of it as an option to try. I didn't mean to say "you should have done this thing in that match", I meant more like "in that situation this other thing could have worked". idk. It's helpful for me to have information like that.

    Didn't know about the punishing mediums. Can't Robo cancel into s.hp tho? Though in that situation you had enough to alpha counter into super immediately, that probably would have worked. I also remember you trying to punish my c.mp in one set with alpha counter, but I kept Devil Horning on reaction. It'd probably be good to check who does and doesn't have answers to it from mediums. Can't people just raw tag too? Fukua raw tag probably would catch you, I think.

    As for alpha counter against jump ins, I tried it in training mode to be sure before I suggested doing it and it worked for me. Trying it again, it looks like there are specific hits you can alpha counter to be certain to scoop. Alpha counter the third hit of Double's j.hp and it always scoops, unless she does it so slow she's basically on the floor. There might be specific points you can AC Robo, too. Also, while testing that out, it seems like maybe a good option vs Double in that same situation would have been j.lp, j.hp backed by beat extend. j.lp would beat out her j.hp, and if she did it super early it'd get snatched by beat extend. idk tho, I don't play Double.


    Alright, looking forward to it.

    I am curious about one thing. What do you think about my suggestion for switching to Big Band vs cloud? Do you think it would have worked out better, or nah?
     
  8. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Haha nope, Beat Extend is two hits and breaks the armor before the active frames. It's actually really good against Robo as long as you don't fuck up and mistime it like I did.

    Right, so, I've gone over this in training mode. It's free on Robo, unless she has 3 bars. It's free on Peacock no matter how much bar she has as long as you alpha counter a special move. It's free on Eliza and Parasoul as long as you alpha counter a special move and they don't have 3 bars (or, for Parasoul, you can go for it any time if you know for a fact they don't have a down charge). Everyone else can super cancel on reaction to beat it, but sometimes I'll still go for it just to see if they're paying attention.

    Not sure about raw tags. I think I tested that but maybe I didn't. I'll check again.

    Interesting... I'll admit I only tried a few jump ins and tried it a few times in matches and was like "well I guess it doesn't work", but maybe there are some jump ins where it's consistent and reliable. If you have time some night I'd like to lab this in online training mode; alpha counters are one of the things that are hard to test on your own, so it'd be a lot easier with another person. Not tonight though I really cannot keep putting off this video analysis.

    Oh, yeah, I had an idea about that too, I think I came up with a pretty good solution. Like the Diablos thing I was planning on covering it in the video analysis which hopefully I should get up tonight.
     
  9. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    just lmk when you're ready.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  10. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    D,DF,F,DB+buttons!
    (Where in BB's case buttons is LP+LK+MP+MK for the sickness.)
     
  11. ShadeMoneh

    ShadeMoneh We have a h8r

    Steam:
    ShadeMoneh
    PSN:
    ShadeMoneh
    Valentine
    Filia
    Parasoul
    BFF would've lost.
     
  12. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Oh yeah, I should really get in the habit of ending in block after the motion.

    Is the idea behind LP+LK+MP+MK that you get air super in the air and ground super on the ground?
    Are you sure? SSJ has no invincibility and only 1 hit of armor post flash. Sniper plus BFF is 2 hits, which should break my armor.
     
  13. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    SSJ has only one hit of armor, right? Sniper shot eats the one hit of armor, BFF connects. Or am I missing something?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  14. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    YEP. Basics.

    Okay so here's the full deal: It's SSJ, Timpani, and throw tech. BUT ONLY if you do it as a reversal. If you do it regularly, it's just a throw whiff.
    [edit] It's also cymbals if they cross you up, but you can't win 'em all. If you could, I would have removed it...
     
  15. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    What the fuuuuuuuuuuck that's cheap. Ok I need to learn that. Thanks for the tip!
     
  16. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Stealing this tech

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
  17. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Steam:
    fullbleed
    PSN:
    nFuLLBLeeD
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I, too, have trouble doing reversals with mr band, and this tech will surely help me.
     
  18. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Could have sworn I posted it in the Band thread? Guess not.
    It's valid for BB and PW.
     
    gllt and TheCrankMachine like this.
  19. ShadeMoneh

    ShadeMoneh We have a h8r

    Steam:
    ShadeMoneh
    PSN:
    ShadeMoneh
    Valentine
    Filia
    Parasoul
    actually nvm yeah you're right. im thinking of the times i saw counter BFF in response to SSJ lose
     
  20. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    k got some match analyseseseses for ya. I'm not sure if I'm going to look at every set from XenoEncore but I definitely wanted to look at these two cause I got smoked, wowee. If you see something here that I missed, please let me know, it would really help me out.




    I also wanna post this one, it's Sage vs LazyDiablos. I keep talking about how I want to play more patient as Double, the way Sage plays this matchup is what I mean. If you compare it to my play it's totally different. Most of the time when he does something and it's blocked, he just backs off and does jump back j.HK or jump back j.HP. He does go a bit nuts when he has Diablos cornered but otherwise he's content to back up and zone when one of his pokes gets blocked. I want to try to start playing Double like that.

     
  21. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Would you like me to go over my thoughts in that set? It might help you figure out how to play that way.

    Edit: Also, its important to know that if you ever play diablos in 3v2, if you get happy birthday'd your assist is guaranteed to die. Fortune always builds a second bar and the dhc always kills the assist. Point usually dies too, or comes very close to dying. So you need to just let your point hold the mix ups and try to block everything correctly, or you risk losing the entire game off one read. That's the safest thing to do, not always the best, but the safest most of the time.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
    TheCrankMachine likes this.
  22. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Yes, please! This would be a huge help.
     
  23. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    okay I did the thing. I'm not great at these kinda things so I hope whatever I said made sense
     
    Mr Peck likes this.
  24. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    @dekillsage ty for taking the time to record that, it was super helpful. I know you've told me in the past some of this stuff like do neutral jump j.HP as Double more, but it's a lot easier when you break it down like that and I can just see like oh yeah that's controlling the space so good
     
  25. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    So in my set with Lazy Diablos I go for Peacock s.MK > j.LK j.HK, but instead of going for the air grab I normally do there I go for a left/right, and it hits weird and I get hit and lose the game. I mentioned there, man I really need a better reset here so I don't mess it up get hit and lose the game. I only go for this reset when Big Band assist hits, but I just realized he recovers in time to call again after the j.HK projectile hits. If the projectile hits, Big Band hits after the projectile so he doesn't scale your damage. You can hit confirm it and charge an item and go for the big combo or the big reset. Since you hit confirm off a projectile that's already on the screen and an assist, you can block the whole time you're doing it. If the projectile hits them airborne, Big Band assist gives you the same easy conversion no matter what.

    In the long run I think it's going to be good that I found this but right now I'm pretty mad. How did I not know this earlier!? I have been playing these two characters together for TWO










    YEARS











    !
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
    FuLLBLeeD, Pickles and gllt like this.
  26. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    *reads that beat extend can be called after the item drop reset*
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    gllt and Pickles like this.
  27. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    No I'm talking about a different reset. But yes I can do that too.
     
  28. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    So this is the thread that FuLLBLeeD got the Big Band option select from...that's where the DB input came from.
     
  29. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Steam:
    fullbleed
    PSN:
    nFuLLBLeeD
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I still have a hell of a time doing it correctly. I still get tag and super most of the time.
     
  30. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    !!!!!!!!!!!
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  31. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    One of the tricky things about this team is finding a way for H Hornet Bomber to be useful for Big Band. Outside of extending Big Band's corner combos I've been having trouble finding anything. Cloud recommending using the assist for crossunders, but I wasn't able to find a setup where they couldn't double jump out. I also thought about maybe using calling it at the same time I do j.HK, but if the j.HK hits you can't actually convert.

    I think I have found something decent though. You can call it and L Beat Extend at the same time. I tried this a while back and didn't think it was useful since if they duck the assist they still get to punish you. However I realized recently that if you Beat Extend while they're in the air, they don't have that option, they have to block the assist if they block the DP. If Beat Extend hits it pulls them up so Hornet Bomber doesn't mess up your follow up combo.

    It seems practical but I'm going to need to get used to it. I tried it on Zid a few times last night at locals and got happy birthday'd every time. Need to make sure I'm doing it early so that I don't get hit during Beat Extend's startup.
     
  32. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    this isn't related to beat extend shenanigans but the one piece of BB/H bomber tech i have is something cloud told me a while ago. afaik with no assists the best way to get a taunt is hard knockdown into taunt, which leaves the opponent at fullscreen but you're like -25 or so, its mostly safe but not great. however with H bomber you can do c.hp and call bomber, then cancel c.hp into taunt, and you will finish taunting before they tech. i tried to do this with m bomber when i played band but you aren't nearly plus enough for it to be practical if they tech forward, with h bomber tho its nice to have if you really want taunt for something. idk if you already knew this or have other ways with your team to get taunt but i figured i'd drop this here
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  33. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Does H bomber not make brass safe?
     
  34. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    No. You'd have to call it at the same time and it'll just a happy birthday waiting to happen.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  35. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    it actually does make brass safe (well m bomber does at least, i ASSUME there's nothing that could punish brass + h bomber but not brass + m bomber and i tested brass + m bomber pretty rigorously against pbgc) but l bomb is much better for making brass safe since it doesnt endanger the assist at all (bomber has a lot of recovery) and peanuts' team already has that assist
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  36. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Can I see your extensions somewhere
     
  37. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I mean, it's nothing fancy. I just do like

    c.LK c.MK s.HK + call Double xx M Brass,
    c.MK s.HK xx M Brass,
    OTG c.MPx2 s.HK xx H Beat Extend,
    j.LK j.MK,
    c.LPx2 s.HP,
    j.LP j.LK j.MKx2 j.HK xx Timpani
     
    gllt likes this.
  38. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    if you do brass with [4]6 hp+lk you can do the same with H brass, and after that c.lp you can still fit a s.lk before the s.hp to fully optimize it.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  39. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    Have you tried out the crossunders that Heropon does, i.e. some sort of combo setup with launch -> a train (that whiffs) + assist? I tried some setups like that and while they had heavy flaws for several reasons, I thought they seemed to have tight enough timing against double jumps.
     
  40. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I haven't seen the way Heropon does it, but what I was trying was whatever into s.HP + assist xx emergency brake. Maybe I could do it with s.MK instead, I know there are setups where you can get under them with a s.MK. Should I bother though, what are these heavy flaws, how heavy are we talking?
     

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