Indivisible Gameplay Discussion

Discussion in 'Indivisible' started by Aden, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. Evilagram

    Evilagram New Member

    Steam:
    evilagram
    Filia
    Big Band
    Sorry I haven't replied. You're right. I screwed up and jumped the gun when I knew there was information I didn't have. I should have done a bit more research. I still have some criticisms, but it's not worth pursuing this any further.
     
  2. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Fukua
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    I have a question about Incarnations. I know the crossover ones are going to be hidden so you have to find them, but the ones that are part of the story, you get them as the story goes on right?
     
  3. Nuuance

    Nuuance Level 51 Pastrymancer Beginner Mod

    Location:
    Toronto
    Steam:
    Nuuance
    Squigly
    Valentine
    Eliza
    STILL EDITING

    I know this is a pre-pre-alpha thing, but just some concerns or things I've noticed. I've played the demo like 2x a day at the very least and played a LOT of valkyrie profile 2 in high school so I do know a little bit of what i'm talking about:

    1. Break Mode/Flow: For the most part, things "feel" good, but I'm worried about the system being too "back and forth." The thing I LOVED about Valkyrie Profile 2 (VP2) was break mode. For those who don't know, break mode happened when a limb/part was broken/cut from an enemy. For a short period of time you have UNLIMITED AP meter. It was helllllaaaa fun. It also switched things up a lot. Since it's a 2d game, initiating a break mode would be quite different, but I think the game really needs something like this.



    2. Sense of Impact w/Zebei & Supers: Zebei feels incredibly weak. I hate using him & his arrows feel non-existent. In order of satisfaction, i'd say...Rasmy, Tungar, Ajna, then Zebei dead last. Not sure if we need screen shake, enemy staggering or other things, but he needs help. Additionally the supers just feel like a bunch of tiny moves strung together. This is just pre-alpha so i understand. But just something to think about. I think skippable cutscenes in the spirit of valentines level 3 is JUST right for level 3 supers.

    3. Controlling Meter: In the demo you can't
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  4. bossfight1

    bossfight1 New Member

    Steam:
    bossfight1
    PSN:
    bossfight1
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Beowulf
    I've only played for like fifteen minutes, but I got a little irritated in combat since I couldn't tell when it was the enemy's turn to attack; as a result, when they would rush forward I wouldn't react in time to get the targeted party member to block.

    Also, as an RPG, I'm hoping there will be character progression? EXP, level ups, all the good stuff?
     
  5. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    The character that they are going to attack flashes red and the screen has a yellow border while enemies are attacking.
     
  6. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    Uh. Lvls are not going to be a major thing. Levling up will most likely grant small health increases and slightly faster action bar recharge. No the main way you are going to progress is finding materials for upgrades just like in MegaMan X or Metroid. So you can upgrade Ajna's axe and it will gain a new ability like the axe climb or give you an extra tick in your action bar allowing you to attack more often with that weapon.

    This progression system will promote exploration and cut down on grinding which can be a problem for other RPGs.
     
  7. Solblade44

    Solblade44 Chumimi~n!

    Location:
    Washington
    Filia
    Valentine
    Alrighty, moved from here to the Indivisible Ideas thread. Wasn't really sure where to post that and didn't know that thread existed. Thanks for pointing it out Ninja! We definitely don't need any more Juju situations in the world.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  8. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    erm...... not to be a party pooper but there is a thread were ideas and quote on quote suggestions go. Because there is a policy were if you suggest something, it is then placed in danger of being shot down by the ghost of Ju-Ju.

    There is a thread where those ideas can be safe.
     
  9. LionOhDay

    LionOhDay New Member

    I think a lot of people's issues would be solved by character profiles that explain the moves. ( Though it's a prototype, so that's why they're not there! ).

    That Axe swing is PAINFUL. I tried getting out of the pit and kept failing. It was frustrating and not in a fun way, I always felt I failed not because my timing was off ( It probably was though ) but because I couldn't tell when the Axe would actually stick. Maybe with a legit intro to the Axe instead of the prototype just handing it to you that'll solve my issues. Or getting good.
     
  10. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    That section is pretty much just "get good". The intro for the axe wall cling in the intro is okay enough, and you get several places to use it and test it out yourself so its not like you won't have any idea how to do it by the end. But getting out of the pit is just a series of specific jumps and timings which is the kind of challenge that's always going to be impossible/difficult until you just learn the magic timing. Just a nature of the challenge, rather than any fault of the mechanic; the actual mechanic is easy and straightforward enough by itself.
     
    Ryin, KaboomKid and mcpeanuts like this.
  11. Redstar

    Redstar New Member

    PSN:
    Redstar-2613
    XBL:
    Redstar2613
    Squigly
    Fukua
    Beowulf
    I just turned off my PS4 because that first axe wall climbing part where you just have to go straight up for a while was way too annoying. I figured there must be a right timing for it but just hitting square only worked occasionally even when I'm sure I'm hitting it at the same moment as the times it has worked. So, what, it has to be the EXACT right timing? If so, that's just stupid. As LionOhDay said, it is not fun.
    The game needs to tell you, just once, when the right time to hit it is so people don't swing the axe and watch it go straight "through" the wall. But hitting jump when the character jumped up a bit after each succesful swing actually helped me with the timing, even though I know it doesn't actually do anything. I stopped when I reached the platform on the right, got in a fight and died. I was not going through that again.
     
  12. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    you hold the button. super simple.

    besides the game does tell you. Ajan will flash bright gold when she will do an axe cling.
     
  13. Shadowfury333

    Shadowfury333 Active Member

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Steam:
    Shadowfury333
    Fukua
    I'm intrigued that people can get to the end with the impression that they need to release the attack button to swing the axe, not realizing it will do the charged swing while the button is held. I mean, I'm not completely surprised since the uncharged swing is on release; it's just that it's the less lazy option, since you would pretty much have to just-frame the button release on the gold flash to do it, rather than just keeping the button held.
     
  14. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    I'm just surprised that there are players that think to release the button while leaping towards a wall that they want to hang on to for dear life. It makes sense that I'd wanna hold the button down as hard as Ajna should be holding that axe, right?

    Actually, I've noticed in some playthroughs where people are struggling with the axe-cling, that they tend to have the most trouble with the first couple clings, but then they hit it more consistently at greater heights. This is probably because a lot of people naturally feel more desperate to hang on as they climb higher, and so they're instinctively pressing the button down longer to nail those clings. It's interesting to see those emotions conveyed through gameplay.

    In any case, all that stuff is mentioned in the How to Play section of the Pause menu anyway. Oh man, if only every game I rented back in the day had an in-game How to Play section...
     
  15. Redstar

    Redstar New Member

    PSN:
    Redstar-2613
    XBL:
    Redstar2613
    Squigly
    Fukua
    Beowulf
    Thank you!
    But the glowing doesn't actually help, it seems like she's only flashing after I've hit the button.

    I can't speak for anyone else of course but I wasn't holding it in because it made sense that I'd tap the button to swing the axe at the wall, then hit x to jump, then swing the axe again. Or something like that anyway
    But the worst part for me is that before I came here I did check the How To Play but somehow I missed the part that would have helped me...
     
  16. LionOhDay

    LionOhDay New Member

    Okay... so I didn't realize you had to HOLD it. Actually I thought you weren't suppose to and should instead focus on the jump.... I'm a bit silly.

    On attacking monsters, I feel making the attacked character stand out a bit more would be helpful. They do flash red, but spotting the red can be pretty difficult. Maybe having the character cry out in preparation? Often times I end up spamming a few other characters before settling on the correct target. ( I usually guard pretty well honestly. It's just that I can get a little twitchy ).

    Yooooo side note! Did you know Ajna can crouch and swing her axe in the over world? This might be used in her down axe, but It's cool that she can do that in the over world. ( Speaking of now I want clones of various characters... so I can double up with the combos. Ajna knocks the enemy up and then clone Ajna knocks em back down. )
     
  17. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double

    You can use her crouching attack to juggle the rice monsters and dead bodies (side note: the attack is also jump cancelable so if you finish an encounter with it then you can jump cancel to skip her end battle recovery).

    Mike Z discussed the possibility of having more than one of a particular character in your party but he said that if he did it then it would be post-game and would be difficult to unlock.
     
  18. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    I think one of the nice things about Indivisible right now, is that it doesn't unduly punish this sort of behavior for defense. If you want to hold All-Block first to be safe, and then quickly switch to blocking with the targeted character, you're free to do so (You just have to make sure you build enough meter to accommodate that strategy). With this amount of flexibility, I think requiring players to be more observant is a fair trade off, but we'll see what the team decides to do based on everyone's feedback.

    I'm excited to see how these systems change as more dynamics to gaining and using meter are added. Sounds like everyone will eventually be able to find a playstyle that suits them, whether it's with a certain team, or certain weapons. Your twitchy mindset will probably find its groove somewhere.
     
  19. Kalaner

    Kalaner Whipped Cream Dog

    Peacock
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    Has anyone discussed the framerate limit of 60 carrying over to Indivisible? frame perfect timing isn't as important in this type of game, so it would be nice to have the option of having a higher framerate.
     
  20. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    heh, Mike's gonna make it important. He's planning in having perfect blocking and other fighting game stuff so the whole thing about the frame rate staying at 60 will be super helpful for him and to the game it self.
     
    Kalaner likes this.
  21. Aden

    Aden Beep Boop Meow

    Steam:
    AdenPhoenix
    PSN:
    AdenPhoenix13
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Parasoul
    I'm not so sure.
    indivisiblegame.com/blog/building-on-the-indivisible-prototype/
     
  22. @J-Boogie

    @J-Boogie Super Fighting ServOp IRC Super Op

    Location:
    C'Burg
    Steam:
    JBoogieG
    PSN:
    JBoogieG
    XBL:
    JBoogieG
    Mike's also acknowledged that the prototype boss' kick attack is barely reactable. So 'perfect timing' might be more akin to Mario RPG blocking and not SF4 one frame links.

    EDIT: and re-reading the thing shows he mentions Mario RPG specifically so hey.
     
  23. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    Since the main topic has been discussing a lot of gameplay related stuff, how 'bout we open up some more Gameplay specific talk here too? Obviously there isn't much new material to play yet, but maybe as more updates come in, we can gradually shift some of those interesting gameplay topics back over to here.

    So I guess I'll share a bit. For a while now, I've actually been having a lot of fun doing periodic low-level runs in the Prototype, and even managed to do a couple No-Razmi Boss fights without dying (huge improvement over the several hours it took me to do it the first time). If you haven't tried beating the Boss this way before, I definitely recommend giving it a whirl. I think those limitations really showcase a lot of the deeper strategy already found in the current battle system.

    I've also been trying to do 1-Action Razmi Cat Boss, but that one's totally kicking my butt. Was anyone ever able to pull this off? I've managed to damage the Cat on its final stage, so it seems possible, but the course of those last two stages feel completely dependent on the Cat's behavior. It's crazy how much of a difference it makes just to have that one extra Action for Razmi.

    And now that Mike's also mentioned the likelihood of a new Action Button to use for each weapon's special trait, I figured I'd play around with switching up my Attack button to see how it felt with the Axe-Climb. At first I thought it'd be a good fit for my "X" Button (SNES squaaad), but it ended up feeling way more comfortable for me set as my "A" button, or a shoulder button. Hopefully when these new controls are implemented, we'll be able to set the Exploration and Battle functions of each button independently.

    But yeah man, that next playable build is gonna be so dope.
     
  24. Shadowfury333

    Shadowfury333 Active Member

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Steam:
    Shadowfury333
    Fukua
    Best I've managed is 2-action Razmi. Granted it was because I didn't actually bother to get the 3rd action, but I still won.
     
  25. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    Yeah 2-Action is way more manageable. With 1-Action, if Razmi ever casts a Super and then gets killed, she's pretty much out of the fight for good. I'm trying to find ways to push Ajna as long as she can go, but once we get to those last two Cat Forms, it doesn't seem like enough.

    I just feel so close to pulling it off sometimes, that I really want to go all the way. The Cat's such an expert at killing your hopes though.
     
  26. superj3

    superj3 Active Member

    PSN:
    THEMEXICANKNIGHT
    Big Band
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Did Lab 0 say anything about Boss fights?
     
  27. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    Yes, there will be Boss fights. Boss fights confirmed!

    But hey, if you haven't seen it, Mike actually wrote a nice blog post a while back talking about changes being made from the Prototype (some of which we've already been seeing). Things to note are that some enemies will be able to block/dodge/counter your offense, and your damage/meter is going to be more dependent on the types of combos you do.

    Since enemy tactics are going to be more complex, my guess is that difficult battles in the finished game will be less centered around perfect blocking and chip damage, and more about reacting to the enemies' behavior. So now a "Cat Boss" might not kill you in 2 unblocked hits, but it could dodge a lot, and require you to think smarter in order to deal damage in return. That's all speculative though.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  28. SweetShark

    SweetShark Member

    For me I wish there will be an option to make the game plays like a turn-base RPG.
    A great example which I believe also heavily borrows, is Septerra Core: Legacy of the Creator. It is like Indivisible, but it let you stop the time when you want an plan tour next moves more "relaxing".
     
  29. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    "Battle Speed" option probably, "Wait" no way. Get on your toes. :^)
     
    KaboomKid likes this.
  30. SweetShark

    SweetShark Member

    AAAAaaaaa....
    Fine, Turtle Battle Speed for me then.
     
  31. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    Yeah ATB meter recovery plays too big of a role in move balancing and strategy for it be completely thrown out. Without that aspect, you'd basically be playing a different game. It's one of the big things that makes moves like Tungar's Up+Attack risky to use sometimes.

    I'd like to try out different battle speeds though. I'm sure a lot of people might assume playing at higher speeds would be the better option, but the Prototype felt like it went at a very natural speed, so I wonder if playing faster might actually feel less enjoyable for me. That's like how I felt with speed options in Tetris Attack, where playing at Max-Speed just felt more limited and less fun in some ways.
     
  32. SweetShark

    SweetShark Member

    The thing is for me because I am not so quickly thinking for strategy while I fighting an enemy, I don't enjoy the presentation of a difht properly.
    So much work the developers will put in their awesome animarion which sadly for me I miss most of them because I will looking at the bars to fill so I start as soon as possible an attack/move....
     
  33. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Much like in fighting games, as you play you will probably develop a sense for when your actions are filled. Plus, most of the animations will happen during attacks and you will know how many actions you have so you can watch the characters.
     
  34. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid Sure would be nice. ...TUNA FISH!

    You definitely build muscle memory the more you play. At this point my eyes hover more around the characters than the meters so I can watch for Blocks, and I can mostly just gauge the Action meters in my periphery. I do need to keep a sharp eye on that Iddhi when I know it's getting low though, so I don't keep a lead finger on that All-Block.

    Characters will probably have radically varied Acton meter recoveries in the full game, based on their equipment or whatever, so that'll be something to adjust to. I think that'll be a fun aspect of breaking in a new team.
     
  35. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    The HUD won't necessarily be so separate from the characters! We do realize that new players tended just to look at the bars.
    Though, as people said, the more you play the better you get at knowing when things are ready...we still want to put that information on the characters.

    Also, different battle speeds are only for bar filling, the actual action takes place at the same speed.
     
  36. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    i was going to say you actually don't really need to have the hud on...

    i mean characters flash white when they have a bar of action meter to them [so you can always be on the look out for that]

    you flash red when you're getting attacked. and if you're on low health you character changes animations [which is super cool I always love that in an RPG]

    the enemy you have targeted next will flash green so you know who is next on the chopping block [ and thanks to the new change where you auto attack the next enemy if you killed one and you are still doing attacks.]

    honestly the only part of the hud that you would still need around would be the Iddhi bar. and even that can be changed where if you gain a lvl of Iddhi you will have this sparkle effect around you and your team and it would grow stronger each lvl of Iddhi you gain.

    in short I think Mike has made a fighting system where you don't NEED the hud, that all of the information is presented to you in a digestible way. So mad props to him.
     
  37. SweetShark

    SweetShark Member

    I don't remember if it was in the Prototype, but maybe a good idea would be if you put a "alarm" noise made by the bars when they got filled.
     
  38. Shadowfury333

    Shadowfury333 Active Member

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Steam:
    Shadowfury333
    Fukua
    If a short, low-frequency tone played when bars were ready it probably wouldn't get annoying fast (and would be very useful for blind players). Bear in mind that each character gets up to 3 bars to fill in the prototype, so that's a lot of alert tones per battle.
     
  39. SweetShark

    SweetShark Member

    Then maybe numbers?
    Numbers that stay near the characters and represent how much filled are the bars?
    I think this will help greatly the players who don't pay attention the flashes.
     
  40. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    okay so this is super dumb to brag about, but I found a way to skip past the boss's first goonie summon phase by using Razmi's slow effect and well timed supers/ combos.

    so yeah I somehow managed to bring his health all the way down to a little below half [48% i think from the looks of it] so it would jump straight to summoning the Ogres

    yay me i guess.
     
    havick9 and KaboomKid like this.

Share This Page

Facebook:

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)