Discussion in 'Indivisible' started by Tank, Nov 14, 2015.
Woah, that would be like Wham Bam Jewel 3.0!
IIRC At some point Mike mentioned he'd like characters to put sort of delayed attacks in the battle area to stop incoming attacks, interrupting the turn.
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the romper (wolf monster thing) made me think it'd be neat if the way characters and enemies walked affected how turn interuptions work in battle. Some enemies could walk around these attacks. Or maybe flying enemies fly over these attacks. I'm thinking of the interuptors being like landmines but they could be anything.
Vice versa the enemies could have turn interruptors too. This would make the player choose attacks that avoid or get rid of those interruptions. Like a zombie, narssus, can just tank through the interuptor. Or a shield weilder can move through it. Magic users attack from a far. Kushi could fly over. Stuff like that will make things not be a button mash fest.
You could also make it so if a character doesn't move from their spot they get hit by the interuptor. this way magic users who stay stationary have to move/use different moves. Looking at you razmi.
I think that's already built into the engine- characters have hitboxes. So, if an attack hits, it hits. If a character moves, that moves what'll hit and what won't.
Hm... I wonder if a range-grappler (Spider-Man, anyone with ropes or chains) could pull enemies into their own interruption attacks?
How would you guys feel about "Juggling puzzles". You get an indestructible enemy or object and you have to hit it into a goal area that's in the stage. You can solve the puzzle in "battle mode" or in free roam mode but some puzzles may require you to do one or the other. Its kinda like the Rodney final boss skip but instead of mostly baiting Rodney to walk somewhere you actually have to juggle the object to the goal while it's in the comboed state.
Of course you can have the standard hit McGuffin A into relic holder B type stuff too but Since there are elemental attacks in the game maybe a certain element must hit the object/enemy before it goes into the goal. For example. Before Ajna gets bomb arrows maybe she can fight enemies that explode shortly after getting hit by fire. She could use those enemies to open routes early. And since she doesn't have fire she'd need to be in battle mode with an incarnation that does use fire to solve the "puzzle".
Earth attacks could "stone" enemies and turn them into platforms or barriers. water attacks could maybe make plants grow or something. A mission from Honey could be to hit a seed onto a stoned enemy and water it so the enemy becomes nutrients for the plant that grows.
Good idea! I've long had a thing for knockback puzzles, ever since you could spin an enemy into a bottomless pit in Crash Bandicoot and hear him scream. Knocking enemies into hazards, clever tricks to use the world against itself are lots of fun. I also love blasting enemies off the map in Paladins. Funnily enough, I can't think of many 2D instances of it.
I've been playing a ton of Darksiders 2, and there are similar puzzles with bombs you can throw and statues that get knocked back by the bombs. Something similar could easily apply to Indivisible, especially if combined with Valkyrie Profile style frozen enemy platforms.
Playing FE Echoes and I do love the fact you can talk with your party members in villages and stuff. They even have fully voiced conversations and it often gives them a bunch of characterization.
The dialogue changes at every chapter and they spawn randomly, so let's say at one moment you can talk to Lukas or Clair... Next time it might be two different party members you can speak to.
I wonder if Indivisible could get something to that... Maybe in the Inner Realm you can meet some of the characters and they speak to Ajna about their life or their dreams or such.
Moving here to avoid Lab Zero...
Ooh! What if they pull a Crisis Core and we control Ajna's dad during the assault, fighting endless enemies until we die- this way you get a tutorial showing all the combat mechanics and abilities, and a good explanation for why Ajna starts from zero. Heart-wrenching and practical.
that would be interesting.
That's all up to Lab Zero to do. just as long as you didn't suggest it, it's up to fair play.
If the labzero team is serious about keeping both Vasco's in the game they could treat it like the dread pirate Roberts from the Princess diaries where one Vasco is replaced by another at some point in the story.
How I want old Vasco to appear if he does:
I want wanted posters all over town with Vasco on it.
And at some point you, like, initiate a side quest where you go ask people about this guy and slowly build up clues.
Then you go looking for him and it seems like a wild goose chase.
But at the end of the quest you have an encounter with him.
I'd want you to fight him but maybe that's stretching it.
I think if old Vasco appears he'd be perfect as a rival figure of sort.
Maybe a drifter you find every now and then at the local bar (is Ajna even allowed to visit a bar? ) getting his drink and he could tell you stuff and maybe not fight you if he finds out you happen to share the same goal as him.
I remember he was in it for the money right, what if let's say... Someone hires him to kill Ravannavar and since it is Ajna's goal too he ends up *in a very cowboy voice* "well kid you leave me no choice..." and he fights Ajna (maybe with some mooks with him to make it more even)
Ooor he could be yeah some outlaw researched by the Iron Kingdom for what they see as treachery if that pre-production backstory of that guy being an old soldier from that empire still holds... (Even though the whole thing could still fit new Vasco maybe? It's just our new Vasco looks more... honorable? I don't know.)
For extra bonus if he's still here and current Vasco interact that'd be funny dfhjsd
Real talk you know what Indivisible needs? A cat collecting sidequest like in Chrono Trigger.
After playing so many bosses in so many rpgs I was just thinking what do I dislike most about fighting them. I came up with their immunity to the majority of status effects. The prototype showed that the boss can be affected by slow but i hope that translates to they aren't immune to most things. If they can buff themselves during battle or if i can remove their buffs its fine if they have it at the start of battle but i don't like when my debuff things just become useless in boss fights.
Oh yeah! Totally. This is why Etrian Odyssey is the only RPG I play for the combat.
For example, in Persona 5, the best status effect character is also the best magic attacker with debuffs and heals, and with only 8 skill slots I don't keep any status moves on her. So I never learned that regular enemies with no weaknesses are actually best dealt with using status effects, because she's really good in bossfights but every status move on her would limit her.
In Etrian Odyssey, bosses aren't immune to status effects and it really adds another layer with both the status system AND the bind system. Using binds to disable enemy skills is absolutely crucial.
I like how Etrian Odyssey handles status effects on bosses. All status effects are temporary, and once a status wears off the foe gains partial resistance so it's harder to apply it again. But nothing is ever immune, and for many fights they're actually crucial for survival. Get binds up for some breathing room and do as much as you can while they last.
I assume Indivisible isn't going to have much probabilistic mechanics like that though. But Scribble Cat had an interesting alternative way to handle resistance, Razmi's Slow works but the effect is simply weaker. That seems like an even better way to selectively nerf statuses in fights where they might otherwise be too good, without killing the option entirely.
ninja edit: wow
I feel bad for anyone who missed the LANSHI BUSTAAA!!!
Oh shit wrong thread, lol
Now that we know Latigo is a legit gunslinger I hope one of his supers involves him throwing his gun sword impaling the enemy then he teleports to the gun to pull the trigger for a point blank shot.
Well, that came out of nowhere.
"Nothin personel........ kid...."
"Master forgive me..."
I mean, I kind of appreciate his fighting style because of how down-to-earth it is. I'd pin an attack like that on another more magic-focused character.
Of course the meaning is kind of ambiguous anyway because he could have meant shiny magical teleport (magic people do this) or flash-step speed teleport (Which normies do constantly in animoo games).
I also really how somber Latigo's general combat demeanor is. Almost every newcomer save for Dhar is smiling/grinning in combat, but Latigo's out here because he has to be.
The other day I was reading a discussion about games where harder difficulties actually change the mechanics in some way rather than merely increasing numbers or whatnot. The attack indicators shown in today's update got me thinking back to that, since they kinda look like they'll make things a bit too easy to react to. What if hard mode turned them off, so you had to play it like the prototype again?
This is what I was thinking of but couldn't remember the name.
Looking at Leilani in the stream and was thinking what type of attacks would fit her. When ever i think of a chainsaw attack i think of constant grinding multi hitting attacks. So maybe she does more chip damage to blocking enemies if you mash her attack button and when she blocks enemies attacks they get hurt if you mash her block button. She would be good at breaking the enemies guard. she would be good for building the combo counter on hit. Her attacks would be kinda slow and hard to time with airborne enemies so she would be better as the combo starter.
We only saw her block animation so I really have nothing to go off of.
Yeah, I've always figured the utility of characters with good multi-hitting attacks like Leilani and Tungar could be the ability to do Guard Break combos on enemies. That would certainly give them an edge over teams that focused on single heavy hits. We haven't actually seen blocking enemies yet, but I hope that's the case based on what Mike's said before.
I'm still really curious to see what Sangmu can do. Her sand powers have so much versatility that boiling down her moveset must have been hard. I hope she has something that lets the player get a little artsy, like maybe a sand stroke you can manipulate during an attack, or a series of moves that create a unique mandala pattern in the end or something. She's the artist of the group after all!
I don't know, she seems rough and course and gets everywhere.
From the one picture I've seen so far of Sangmu it seems like she'd be some sort of puppet character?
I'd love her to send out her puppet then have it just stay there on the enemy's side, maybe use it to disrupt them mid-turn?
I was looking at overwatch's self healing characters, Like roadhog, reaper, Bastion, and other characters that heal themselves but not the team. So far in indivisible we just have team healers that heal the entire party. It'd be neat to be able to build a party of self healers. I'd think it'd make you have to micro manage health more but that has it's own sort of fun.
You know what we would need? A character like Amaranth from FF9: a monk with high HP who either throws stuff at enemies dealing a lottadaamidge or uses some minor magic techs to restore some mana to one party member or building some Iddhi.
How about this;
A combination of Smeargle from Pokemon and Blue Mage from FF. Steal enemies' moves and build your own moveset from the strongest enemies' attacks and spells!!! (with Iddhi attacks being fixed of course)
Despite what you might think, there are plenty of ways to do this without extra animation. She could summon forth a sandy, phantasmal image of a foe for copied physical attacks. (Crowd-control Belu roll would be so good to have on your side) And for enemy spells she could have two or three 'generic' spell animations play depending on the type of spell stolen (A support spell and a nuke spell would obviously have different hand-waving, for example). Think of the Pokemon Stadium-series' Pokemon animation sets, different animations for different situations, but still keeping it economical.
But given how we have only seen one "Spell" type attack (The Treant's root-trap), it's ambiguous as to how well this would work. Bosses attacks could even be stolen, but require an Iddhi level to use, or take up their own Iddhi attack "slot", so only one stolen boss attack can be carried at a time.
I loved keeping him with my mages when Kuja made me split my party. Felt really clever at guessing the narrative and bringing Quina instead of Amarant to the anti-magic field.
Oh, I love Blue Mages! Gives you an extra incentive to get into fights and try to get hit by attacks. Plus, you can recycle animations just by having Sangmu wave her hands and then loading the entire animation with a filter via Mike Z's fancy shadow engine. Only trouble is, we aren't menu based, so Sangmu would be limited to learning a certain number of attacks.
Of course, if only certain moves are learnable, you can skip the Pokemon-style "Sangmu wants to learn X, but can only know 4 moves. Forget a move?" prompt at the end of a battle.
For self-healers, I remember seeing that Lanshi self-heals when he sleeps. Razmi's new Drain might also be a self-heal, since she's no longer a proper Healer class, but we haven't seen how it works yet. It'd be cool if one of Latigo's ammo types might offer him some unique draining abilities too, but we'll have to see.
Yeah, that could be the case. I bet a character like Kushi will have some puppet elements if she makes it in too.
So in Kampan's gameplay and animation spotlight the L0 team said they are thinking about letting her do damage while defending. This is great. I wan't to see other characters be able to do stuff when they defend. Then that made me think the defensive option basically comes in at random since you can't control who the enemy is going to attack so now we need a character who can tamper with the enemies targeting system. Kind of like the Decoy status effect in final fantasy XII. It would be a really niche ability that would probably need a specific team set up to be damaging but it would be another way to enjoy the game.
Zahra came to mind as a character who could probably use decoy. Tatanka could kind of do this too but his attack would be like "taunt" instead of decoy. He would make himself the target.
So characters have an up and down attack. Maybe they should have up and down blocks too. The up and down blocks might not be used for blocking actual high and low attacks but maybe it can mitigate what resources are used or gained or they could have specific uses for different characters. So like an up block might use more idhi but make you take less damage while down blocking uses up your idhi and you gain actions faster. Stuff like that.
I could see someone like Quadira having that, but maybe not everybody. I'm probably one of the most eager to see the full, 'intended' depth of the combat system reach the Beta, but even I think that's a little overwrought. It's a great idea for a single defense-oriented Incarnation though.
A related idea, though, is the whole guardbreak system. Mike has mentioned repeatedly that he wants enemies blocking and evading attacks, and that we will need to break their guard somehow. I'm thinking this might come in the form of all-new 'forward' guard-break attacks that use "+Button" as the input. Extra-powerful attacks (some of which could resemble BlazBlue's new guard break attack animations introduced in CP) that deal extra damage and smash the defense of blocking enemies, therefore letting you attack and combo with ease. Also, let's face it, the party needs some 6S/6H/6C-esque attacks to really beat the shi-stuffing out of those filthy demons with. Or maaaaaaaybe I'm just violent....
They'd obviously have some kind of huge drawback like spending a chunk of iddhi, having super-long Razmi-tier cooldowns, or Mike could even take a page from SMT's book and have you sacrifice health to whip them out. Any combination of gating mechanics could be implemented to make deciding whether or not to break an enemies' guard an actually difficult choice in the heat of battle.
Then again, all of this is a pipe dream at the moment because if every Incarnation were getting an new attack to deal with blocking enemies, we probably would have seen one by now. I remember reading/hearing a rumor that a few enemies have had complete, cleaned-up blocking animations since the Prototype, they're just unused at the moment. I'd be nice if someone could do some digging to verify that, since I actually have no earthly idea if i misheard/misread/dreamed/hallucinated that somehow, lol. Either they are being animated and L0 is hiding them because they want to make the new gameplay upgrades a hype-as-fuck reveal sort of thing (which I would be hype as fuck for), or the team is sort of playing it by ear, so to speak, and will animate these attacks when the time comes that they actually need them. Obviously, I find the second idea kind of preposterous just typing it out, so i'm going to assume the first situation may be the one we're dealing with. Or it's something else entirely, who knows? I actually like their current ivory tower policy because I end up hyping myself up with all of the crazy speculation. There's also the simple fact that unlike other developers, L0 are godlike video game artist-magicians that actually belong in ivory towers, free from community interference, because no matter what I speculate, what they give us is usually 1000x better than anything I could have ever dreamed of. God I'm in Love....
Holy crap this wall of text, i'm so sorry. This is why I don't post after drinking a can of Monster Coffee.
TL;DR: up-down blocks are a good idea for one Incarnation, wondering if characters will have a new Forward+Button attacks to deal with cowardly blocking baddies, however they might not because we have no clue what L0 is up to, kinda praying for more gameplay updates/information soon.
If you press forward or backward it'll make you change targets by accident. I think the devs have said Incarnations with grab attacks are going to be the go to characters against blocking enemies. Guard breaking moves would probably be character specific too.
Yeah, the big ogres/Belu. I think Persona streamed drawing it. Lab Zero's probably still working on enemy AI, which is why everything in the Beta just tanks everything.
I rather miss Mike Z's snarky code streams. At least he's still on Twitter.
As for added defense options, I tried placing Qadira in the front of my party thinking she'd passively mitigate damage done to whoever's behind her. It didn't work, but seemed like a good idea at the time and I'd love to see something like that added. Placing hazards that block enemy movement could also be fun. Then again, I just played a bunch of Overwatch during the free weekend, so I probably still have some Mei in my system.
Kind of reminds me of Georgios' skill in FGO, Guardian Knight, where he draws the attention of all enemies for some turns... Something like that could be a good niche to fill indeed.
Aaah i do wish Tatanka makes it, i love his design a lot.
Just a thought that'd been on my mind for a while but anyone else finds Ajna's up attack with the axe kind of... underwhelming? It's just her normal attack but with an additionnal hit. Idk each time i expect her to jump in the air and use a vertical slice like she does in the overworld...
I was playing disgaea and nuna came to mind while i was playing the Alarune and Priest. Apparently the alarune is genderless due to it being a plant. The priest is a boy who is annoyed when confused with being a girl. Then i thought about the 3 sisters in Nuna's back story. Three sisters from paper mario with vivian being a trans-girl. These rpg characters seem to echo The new nuna alot in design (long thin clothes) motif (plant) and story (3 sisters) not to mention they all don't show feet and nuna's cheeks, not that that's important. Since the L0 team likes to reference stuff i wouldn't be surprised if these came up during Nuna's redesign.
Then i thought about were have i seen Nuna's clothing design from besides native american clothes. And i remembered Egypt and their wigs which both sexes wore. Indivisible characters seem to have at least 2 cultures mixed together so. Nuna may be an Egyptian and native american mix trans-girl with a wig? We haven't gotten a trans character yet so my bet is on Nuna and/or Thorani filling that roll. It's usually the cutest girl or the sexy woman in games that are the trans characters.
I brain is telling me "no...", but......you know the rest. The longer I think about it the more I friggin want it!
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