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Indivisible PROTOTYPE Speedrunning & Secrets Discussion

17:36.26 clearest run. I think you might be able to get it in 16 minutes if you optimize it a bit more. Also does anyone how much longer the deadline was extended by?
 
Please don't tell me that all Zen runners also play Fortune
 
Hey guys, I think its about time to post something here.

First, my best runs so far.

Zen - 3:20.95 http://www.twitch.tv/senvy/v/24502373

Clearest - 15:19.52 http://www.twitch.tv/senvy/v/25423139

For Clearest time, I need to thanks few people: TheGamaniac and RemiKz - for doing test about different attacks for different characters, it helped a lot.
mpgame99 and thelaffingman1 - for also doing Clearest run and pushing each other time lower and lower.
And also Mike Z and Havic9 - for helping figuring some stuff on my stream this morning (for me it was morning)

Now little about what is new in this run. Like I said new route. How, when and what enemy we fight, and how. Now almost all fights we do, ends on first turn.
Here again shout out to Mike Z for figuring that, what we are doing is a bug, and finding out how it work ( It was really amazing )
Thanks to that bug, we can get "LVL Up" a lot sonner then normaly in few places.


Also, CaioLugon I would really like to see your 3:13.89 Zen run. I know where I lost few seconds on my run, but if you think that sub 3 is possible, I really liked to see what is new, or just what you do better. Same with [PME] , I would like to see what testing you have done to say 3:07 is possible.
 
My 3:24 run
I'm kinda kicking myself for pausing when I jumped over the 3 Hungry Ghosts, I could have sworn I was going to trigger a battle so my muscles were already preparing to restart the run, which, screwed up my timing falling down afterwards. At 0:57, it's really easy to get that next wall cling... but that pause, man... but getting that vine cut at 1:10 made me want to continue the run after all (I always go for it, since it's faster to wall jump there anyway). You can jump over the ghosts in the tunnel at 02:04... it's especially hard if the moonwalking bug happens. At 03:00, I could never get the single battle cycle for Rodney to get him over the edge in a run attempt. At the end is me trying to see if you get the speedboost even without killing Mr. Boss Man (I know you don't, but I still did in this attempt for some reason). From my screwups, and the fights I could have avoided, that adds up to 12.37 seconds lost, which would have been a 3:12.55 run (not including the triple attack at the end). I've gotten runs where they don't attack (most likely because I was standing when they hit me), if they hadn't in this run, and if I hadn't screwed up the run so much, I would have been around 19.86 seconds faster, resulting in a 3:05.06 run.

I'm not exactly sure what Caio has that is that fast to be sub 3, but I'm sure he's not bluffing.
 
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Getting a perfect rodney can save a LOT of time, if you don't get hit in battle and manage to push him down the pit first try it can probably save about 10 seconds over what I got in my run just from that. My sum of best was 2:58 (before I fucked up the splits...).

My previous PB was a shit run, I even failed the ogre skip and got hit, but I got perfect rodney so it was still 3:21.
 
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Thanks both CaioLugon and [PME]. I'm glad that my assumptions that just my execution was bad and thats why my time is slower, but then again I was kinda hoping for some new skip or trick hehehe.

[PME] - That vine jump / cut is really nice. Someone at my chat pointed that you can do that, but its really close to fail, I think I will try and see for my self.
Also you skip that 2 Ahp (white ghost) at the end of shrine 1 little faster then I.

CaioLugon - That jump after getting axe, nice. I will see if its faster then using axe, I'm curious about that ( But from what I found so far, little differents in movement like that usually are the same, like after skipping 2 ogrs, and going up to the vine, going left or right wall take the same ammount of time, at least to my testing, I can be wrong on that )
Using axe, for getting pass the enemy just before the end, that was nice. I wasn't sure if using axe to dmg / kill enemies is good, because I was worried I could kill them, but now I see its save. So instead of jumping over them and hoping I will get pass, I can do that.
Still if you could get pass them without using a axe, it would save few sec I think.

Also I see both of you had to push twice enemy to make him fall. That is what I hate. I was doing some testing to see where you have to stand / what kind of jump you have to do or another things, but still this one seems a little random to me. Either it take me 2 try or at first try he fall down and get de spawn.

On my 3:20 I did get him on first try, and on boss I only hitted 1 or twice, so that was really lucky.
 
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Caio, do you go for the vine cut at 1:10?

Funny thing too, if the sliding bug affects Ahps in that run, you can simply skip the 2 white Ahps without having to lure one away. I've had runs where that bug ONLY affected Ahps, so I tried it, and skipped them... but I always miss the Belu skip cause I suck at that jump.
 
The contests are all extended, btw. Until 3 days before the new campaign end, I think.

And if someone can find me a REASONABLY CONSISTENT case of the sliding AI, I will look at fixing it.
 
It says it ends on december 1st on the contest page.

Caio, do you go for the vine cut at 1:10?
Just learned you could do that from your video, will look into it.
 
Well, it's true, easily you can finish a Zen Run under 3:00.

I did a lot of mistakes in this run and still did a decent time.

And one of the motives that I didn't get a better time was because I did a mistake in something that supposedly I already domiated.

 

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I was also able to do that skip few times MysticSpirit, but most of the times, I had bug with this guys, or bad luck and well they screw with me.

Mike, about sliding AI. I had first time run game, and first enemy you getting that bug, but only that one time and only that one.
But what I found little more strange is that during Clearest run, after getting the axe and cutting first vine, there is enemy that we used to kill (now I'm skipping it) on the left, and during my runs, I think 3 times in a row, that one enemy was sliding away, but again only that one.
 
Yeah, those Rodneys are very tricky.



BTW, I did a better time, barely, but I swear that before this one I had the opportunity to make like 3:09.
 

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if someone can find me a REASONABLY CONSISTENT case of the sliding AI, I will look at fixing it.
My attempts to recreate it only proved to me how inconsistent it is, it just happens sometimes when you jump over the enemies (especially short hops). Last night, I decided to see if I could trigger it fast enough, and it worked the first time. I then decided to try and record it... the next 50 attempts were not as successful...

But uhh...

Sliding Manote can be done every time though, but you probably already know about it and the multiplying Ahps
 
Sliding Manote can be done every time though, but you probably already know about it and the multiplying Ahps
Yeah, that's not a bug. He doesn't have a walk animation, so I just picked a frame, because if you see it you're already doing something nonstanard. :^P
Multiplying Ahps I didn't know about but that's a good one.
 
grrrrrrr, I need help. Yesterdat and today, was practicing Zen run. Most of the thing are going nice, but I have huge problem with ogrs / Belu skip in shrine 2. I just can't get it, can't find any visual or audio reference to when do jump, I just can't. How you doing it ?
 
I noticed that too, sometimes when I jump those Ogres the last one hits me, but sometimes even when I jump in the wrong moment I can pass them and when I think that I jump in the right spot the first one hits me with the sword, is weird.

I don't know if this helps but normally I try to jump when I'm front of this plant:
 

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To tell truth I was trying different things. Like the brick Ajna is steping on your picuter, I was even trying to get that as a cue, but well not luck hahaha. Other then that, both of the flower you can see there, was trying looking at Belus . . .

Will try with this when I practice Zen tomorrow probably, so thanks.

Other then that, get new Clearest - 15:05.66 - http://www.twitch.tv/senvy/v/25810144
 
Also I noticed now, that there is new version 11-13. Are we allowed to switch the version, or we still play on 10-23 ?
 
From the contest rules:

  • Submitted runs must be on builds from 10-23 or after as shown on the title screen. Runs made on earlier builds will NOT be accepted.
 
I know but that was before new version was made, so that why I ask, and also it says about earlier build not newest.

Also the bug with moonwalk was fixed (at least changelog say it was) so it could only improve the gameplay.

EDIT: Nvm, I didn't read that OR AFTER for some reason . . . Thanks for answer, and sorry for missunderstanding.
 
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Hey guys, how it is going ? First, did anyone get better Zen time ? I was trying couple of times in past few days, but nothing new.

So I switched back to Clearest, and treid to improve it, and I did improve it.

I spend last 2 days, routing both boss fights, so I would know more what to do according to what bosses did. After many tries, I improved my PB twice.
First it was 15:02.XX, but it still wasn't sub 15, and that was my goal. After another 1 h, I finnaly did it, new Clearest run PB is 14:42.84 http://www.twitch.tv/senvy/v/26605804

If you are watching that, becareful on last 20 sec, I kinda let it go with voice, and it can be loud.


Also I will now focus on improving Zen run, I don't hope for much but who knows.
 
Hey, nice work, that's a nice record.

I'll try to improve the time maybe today or tomorrow. Sunday I'll try to do some Clearest runs to know if I can make some good records.

Cheers.
 
Like I said, I wanted to go back to focusing on Skullgirls for NEC. Once the date nears the 1st though, I might decide to try for a new record.
 
Congratulations Senvy! I know you've been working hard for that one! Thanks for streaming the game so much too.
 
Thanks guys, and yeah I was working hard on that time.
The routing I did for both bosses was worth looks like.

I really wanted to get sub 15 becasue I know that both thelaffingman1 and mpgame99 had really close time.
When I had 15:19 or 15:06 I know that both of them had best time around 15:36 or something, so they were really close.

I don't want to say that I'm 100% sure that this will be the best time to the end, there is always a slim chance that someone will get really lucky and get lower then my time. It's very unlikely but still possible.


Also thanks to all who watched me, and well cheered for that time ^^ it was really hype after that first PB, and then 14:42 happened. Thanks once again.
 
The routing I did for both bosses was worth looks like.
LOOKS LIKE indeed!
GS! I'll tweet this tomorrow, because it's diggity dope.
 
LOOKS LIKE indeed!
GS! I'll tweet this tomorrow, because it's diggity dope.

Wow, did not expected that hahaha, guess I need to make tweet account.

I said earlier on my stream that I would write a guide so more peoeple would start doing Clearest run, or just understnad what I'm doing, more or less.


It took me around 1h to write this on the fly so here it is, a guide to Clearest.
So you want to start doing Clearest ? Let me help you, because its dangerous out there.

Based on my run - http://www.twitch.tv/senvy/v/26605804

First we need 2 exp to get Ajna second attack (Ajna 2). Jump over first Rodney, and do pre emptive strike on 2 Rodney. Doing attack+down make it easier to atack both of them.
Do down+attack on both of them, then aim the one top and do Up+attack to kill both of them at once. Now you have Ajna 2.

Now we need 3 exp to get Zebei. So get back to that 1 Rodney we skipped, and kill it. Again pre emptive, and down+attack twice. Now go again right and kill 2 Rodney that spawned again, the same way as you did before.

Now when we have Zebei, its place where we start using the exp bug. I won't explain it because its long story. Just lets say there is a way during a fight to get almost twice exp you normaly gain.

So go again and kill that 1 rodney on the left, then again the 2 at the right. BUT this time it will be different. This time first use Ajna Up+attack twice, and then do Zebei down+attack. Thanks to this setup ( THANKS mpgame99 ) now you have Zebei 2 little earlier. Now go right, get down and do pre emptive attack on 3 Rodney. Here you will always only pre attack 2 of 3 Rodney, so first find the one Rodney that is at full hp, dmg him once, then aim the middle on, Ajna Up+attack twice, and Zebei down+attack once.
And now you have Tungar a lot earlier.

Now go down, make the floor crumble, and kill Ahp down there. Wall jump to the next room. Here you have to be fast, or you will miss the timing for next fight. You want to fight 2 Ahps, 2 little and 1 medium Rodney. If you miss timing, some of them won't join fight.
Thanks to this setup ( Again thanks to mpgame99 ) you can almost always get them all together. Get on first platform and keep jumping on them. After 4th platform, when you fall down to the 5th one, you have to stand still for short period of time, then walk left, and when you get donw attack one of ahp. If you get timing nice you will get all of them.
From here fight is rng, depending on enemy place. The idea is to aim this one guy
OJHdLr4.png

( NO not ahp, the enemy who stand in this place ) who stand there, using Tungar and Ajna Up+attack, once and Zebei down+attack. After that combo, see how many of them survive, if you are lucky you can try and do the same combo Ajna Up and Zebei Down and maybe all of them will die. If not try to kill them on next turn.

Now we got Tungar 2, now go right and down. After that left and again pre emptive attack. Here is next place where we will do exp bug and get Razmi a lot faster. Aim the middle back Rodney. Try to time this attack, go Tungar Up and Zebei Down, then keep smashing Tungar Up because you have to interupt his last attack that deals 425 or you will not get Razmi.

Now with Razmi, next to fight are normal, nothing big and complicated, just kill them fast with Up attack.

After you get axe do wall jump and start fight with white ahp ( wall jump isn't necessary but it faster then walking) here is next place where you will do exp bug.
Setup is easy so don't worry about this one ( Thanks to havick9, me, Jason, and other person from my chat for getting this setup ). Razmi Ajna Zebeihave to use their neutral / normal attack and Tungar Up on White Ahp, then do that again Razmi Ajna Zebei normal and Tungar Up. After the fight you will get Ajna 3. Thanks to that you can skip all fights in Shrine 1.


Go to the exit, at the end you will see 2 whit Ahps, there is a way to avoid fight with them. After wall jump press and hold right, and when Ajna land, one of the Ahp should get lured. Go back a little, then dash, jump over Ahp, land dash again and jump over next one. Depending on how much you get back after luring first Ahp, the second one can start moving or not, so be aware of that.



Shrine 2 - Here is where everything get serious.

First we want to get all 3 bar of action, so we will do some fight. But here is where you will see new enemy Bel, but we won't fight them.
First 3 rodney, when fight start, I'm doing this combo Tungar Up -> Ajna neutral -> Zebei down, repeat it, and at the end after Zebei down I add Razmi Up. The reason Ramzmi is last, is because her neutral and Up attack knockback enemy a lot, and this can cause other to miss their hit.
When you end your turn, wait for Ajna 2 bars of action and then do one neutral and then super attack na follow with Zebei Down and maybe Tungar Up. If you are lucky you should kill all and get Zebei 3.

Now comes tricky part. Depending on how fast you kill Rodneys, next enemy Belu can be in different place, and skipping him can be easy or not. If you get caught by him, getting pass him can be hard, for many reasons. When you get pass him, get up, then left through the vine. On next room with 3 Ahps, jump to the right wall, and either wall jump to the other site or first use axe and then jump to the left. From here get up.

When you get to the top, there will be 2 Belu waiting for you. There is a "pixel perfect" ( Not sure about pixel perfect, but looks like it ) skip you can try to get pass this 2, but it's really hard, so don't worry if you get caught.

When you get pass them, you can do wall jump either by jumping of the egde and then wall jumping, or just by walking and then wall jumping. You should land on last or one before last step, from there you jump on platform, turn left and axe jump to the top.

After cutting the vine, you will fight Rodneys. It's a fast and easy fight. Just aim the grey - middle Rodney in the middle and use only Tungar and Razmi Up. You SHOULD get Tungar 3 but I had runs when I didn't get that lvl up. If that happends, you will fight next enemy instead of getting pass them.

So after you get Tungar 3 ( Or not ) dash, and fall once on the platforms, on second platform jump to the next one, from there wall jump twice and axe jump to the other site. Get up, cut vine, and get down.
Here you can try doing jump-cut vine. If you do that without stopping you can try and get skip next fight. You have to get really close before jumping or you will get caught by one Rodney on the back. IF you didn't get Tungar 3, just kill them.

Get down, make floor crumble and when you land, attack 3 Rodney. Again next setup make this fight easy ( Thanks thelaffingman1 for other setup ) Either aim the middle big Rodney, then Ajna neutral 3 times, then Razmi + Tungar Up twice, and Zebei Down 3 times, then at the end Tungar lvl 3 super. The idea of this fight is to end the fight with Tungar lvl 3 super instead of waiting for next turn.
Other setup is - Zebei neutral once on first Rodney, then Ajna neutral 3 times, and then Tungar + Razmi up twice and Zebei down 3 times, and finish with Tungar super.

Now you should get all characters on 3 acction bars, go right, through the vines jump over the black Belu, and get down. Try to jump to the left after you start the fight. Thanks to this you should not get hit by boss.


Boss fight
Well keep in mind few things.
1) SLOW SLOW SLOW, Razmi Down attack slow enemies, and it really help A LOT, so try and keep at least one bar of her action just to slow him. BUT only slow him AFTER boss turn. If you do that right before his turn, the slow will be useless.
2) Get to know boss. With slow and the dmg you can deal to him its quite easy to predict what he will do next.
3) Using Iddhr meter. You won't know when and how to use Iddhr meter if you don't know boss pattern, but using Iddhr meter effective can speed up things.

Ok now lets get to the fight.
Main idea is to use Iddhr meter every 2 turns, It would be a lot easier without boss summon but oh well.
The numbers, represend your turn.


1 - When fight start, wait for all character to get their 3 bar, then go Razmi Down, AND while she moves, attack with other characters, just use neutral. Second bar of action is the same, razmi slow other dmg. On last bar all attacks.
2 - Don't wait for Razmi 3 bar of action. When all expect Razmi have 3 bar of action use this setup - Ajna Up + Tungar Zebei Razmi Neutral -> Ajna Up + Tungar Razmi Zebei neutral. On 3 bar of action, use Ajna super and other neutral.
2.5 - Right before Ajna recharge her bar boss will attack.
3 -Wait for Ajna 1 bar to recharge, after that Razmi Down twice, and while she slow attack with other.
4 - Same us turn 2. Wait for all expect razmi 3 bars, then attack Ajna up, other neutral and at the end Ajna super
5 - Same as 3. Wait for 1 bar to recharge on Ajna then attack.
Now there are 2 things that can happend. Either boss will summon rodneys and ahps, or you will get turn before that.
Now when I rewatch the fight I can say that if you get the turn before boss, its better to attack him BUT left 1 bar of action on all your characters.
6 - So if you get turn before boss summon, attack him with all you got, no fancy work, but save 1 bar of action on all characters
7 - After boss summon enemies, slow him first, and while you are doing that attack him with Ajna axe neutral 2-3 times to kill rodney in front of him, or try using Zebei to kill them.
8 - With tungar aim for the Ahp, the farthest one, and use Up twice slowly, without canceling dmg.
9 - If you get lucky you killed all summons, if not around 2 rodneys should be alive, kill them and focus on boss all your other dmg. You should have around 3 Iddhr meter, so use them.
10 - Now again, either boss can summon on next his move, or attack, depending on how much dmg you did to him, and how fast he got a turn. But nonetheless you should get one turn before him. Wait for Ajna bar to recharge and then attack normaly with all characters + keep in mind the boss can summon, before you get next turn.
11 - I got lucky / unlucky ( depends on how you look at it ) and got turn before he summon Belu, and again I went all on, and I didn't saved turn ( I even used Iddhr meter )
The best thing you could do is attack him, but again save at least 1 bar on all character expect Razmi, she should have 2 for slow. You don't want to spend that 2 sec for the second bar.
12 - When boss summon Belu, slow the boss, and you will also slow other one belu. Focus on that one without the slow. If you saved bars, and Iddhr meter, use that combo
Ajna Up twice, others attack neutral, and at the end Ajna super lvl 3. This SHOULD kill boss, or make him very close to death.
During my fight, I waited for full bars on all, then I went full on on the boss - Ajna Up twice, other neutral and then Ajna super. This left belu with almost no hp
13 - I just wanted to get that belu killed
14 - I went little too fast - Try and kill second belu before he get un slow. I should wait for full on all, but went with Ajna 2 bars.
So the idea would be Ajna up twice, other neutral and then Super to finish off / make him clsoe to dead.
15 - Before my turn, boss got a turn. Always focus slow on boss first, over killing belu. I was lucky and I killed the belu while attacking the boss
16 - From now on, its only you and boss. Ajna up twice, other neutral and at the end Ajna super
17 - Wait for Ajna to recharge 1 bar and then attack.
18 - Boss should get turn soon so save razmi, but other Ajna up twice, other attack and Ajna super at the end
19 - Wait for Ajna bar to recharge, and then slow with razmi and other attack.
20 - Again Ajna up twice other attack and at the end Ajna super
21 - Boss was close to death, so just finish him.

If you look closely, what I found during my routing, is to repeat the same action - All attack to get Iddhr meter - next turn - Use that meter.
But how I use the meter its important. thanks to this http://skullheart.com/index.php?thr...ng-secrets-discussion.8255/page-5#post-322586
We know that if you use Up Ajna attack which usually have the longest recharge bar, and then use super, the recharge bar will not be longer. It wil just recharge at the speed after you use super. BUT if you use Super then Up twice, the recharge bar will take longer. With that knowledge instead of 950 (axe neutral) I was doing 1500 from Up (700+800)

Other then that, it was just knowing what boss will do next.


OK boss is dead, now its time to get out of pit. I won't help you with this. Everyone have their one cue on when to jump, so just try for yourself.

When you get out of the pit, lets get back almost to the begining. With new super dash, getting pass enemies will be easier. Just run to the left all the time until you fall down on the platform. From here dash few times and jump to the wall to brake it. When you do that, get down and go again left.
When you get back to shrine 1, get down cut vine, and move left. When you get pass this room, get down. Hug the wall and either try super dash or just dash once to the left. I usually get super dash right before starting the fight with Ahp. With super dash, you will get pass the wall. Go all the way to the end, get the trigger, and get back to the first wall you destroyed.


Ok guys it's almost over, but if you think that everything until now was hard, you are wrong.
The Hidden Boss, again some tips
1) You have to fight him 9 times, yes Nine times, and each time he have more health and he do more dmg, AND he gets new moves.
2) Slow doesn't work on him
3) Always try to save little Iddhr meter to defend, and save Razmi action bar to heal.

The fight is ( at least for me ) divided in two
From 1 to 6/7 form - easy fight
7-9 form - hard and rng

So when you start the fight, try to hit the boss with axe, that additional 950 dmg will help you getting faster through first form

1 - Boss will get his turn before Razmi get her 1 bar. After that just use all 1 bar of action to kill the first form. Use normal attack
2 - Wait for all characters to get 3 bar of actions, expect Razmi, she only need 2 ( Yes again ) then all attack with normal attack. Keep in mind that Razmi attack kick enemies in the air, so getting all hit in combo can be hard. After that combo second form is done.
IF you are low on health, which probably you are, instead of using Ajna super, use Razmi Super to heal.
3 - You should get around 2 Iddhr meter, so again wait for all bar 3, expect Razmi, and go Ajna Up twice, while other attack, at the end Ajna super 3, and other neutral to finish the third form.
4 - Wait for Ajna 1 bar then attack
4 - Wait for full bar expect Razmi, then attack
5 - Again, almost 2 or more iddhr meter so Ajna up twice, other attack, and at the end Ajna super
5 - Wait for Ajna 1 bar and then attack
6 - Yet again, Ajna up twice, other attack, then Ajna super lvl 3
6 - Wait for all to get full, and Ajna 2 bar of action, then attack.
7 - Now is where the hard part begins. From now on, boss should get all of his move. Firebreath and earthquake are 2 most of the dangerous move. First attack with all, try to get Iddhr meter to 3 and the heal.
7 - Don't wait for Razmi bar to recharge, when other have full bars, just attack.
7 - Depending on boss, heal or finish him off.

From that point onward, I don't have any notes. Everything you do is related to what boss does. If you are lucky, you can focus more on offensive then on defensive. Just try to always have more then 2000 hp on all characters. Also if your reflex is bad, try always defending with Ajna. One of the boss move, Claw is very fast, and at the 7-8-9 forms, can one shot Ajna, even at full hp. At 8-9 form I think the dmg is around 4900 - 5500

So gl on 8 and 9 form. When you are done with boss just go to the place where you fought first boss and end the game / prototype.
 
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how the hell do I get a perfect Rodney...
he keeps falling off the ledge without me ;__;
 
It's hard. I just go for it, somehow close to the egde and pray. Most of the time either he fall down or I have to go with 2 cycles. Rarely I got first try.

Dunno what make him 1 cycle.
 
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As far I know Is very random, thanks to that I wasted good times for Zen runs.
 
I tested it a bit further, it really is just a very very tight spacing
 
I tested it a bit further, it really is just a very very tight spacing
Really ? did you maybe made some pictures to have some cue ? That would really help us.
 
Really ? did you maybe made some pictures to have some cue ? That would really help us.
well, I can't get it consistently myself, but I try to find some cue from the tiles on the ground
I'll post here if I do find something
 
My cue was to start fight somewhere between last 2 brick on the floor.

Thats like my only cue I was using. Not good, but well sometimes it worked.

It was hard to me to test that because of the enemy not co-oping with me to make testing easier.
 
I try to get him to stop just before the end of that tile, when his face aligns with the middle of this line:

b09b92c783bd1d9bae6270a692c0521e.png



I'm not sure if it's dependant on his walking pattern, but probably not, it's just hard to get him in the right place...
 
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