Indivisible question

Discussion in 'Indivisible' started by MelodyofE, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    Hello everyone! New to the forums here. I had to make an account to post a question.

    I've searched the net and the forums and haven't found an answer (I think maybe because I'm the only one this sort of thing matters to). I really want to like Indivisible and try it out but there is one big thing that bothers me about it and now that I've learned Shantae is part of the quest cast, I had to ask.

    In in the game, the main character gains power by absorbing people. Does that mean that they die? I know that they will be in her inner realm and etc, but that's not really much different than them just dying, when you consider they don't live their own lives anymore. It'd be too painful for me to have to get to know this wonderful and colorful cast just to have to watch them all die, especially characters that I really like such as Shantae. So are the characters she absorbs all going to be dead, or is there more to the absorb aspect of the protagonists powers than that?

    Thanks in advance for any insight into this topic. Have a great day everyone!
     
  2. Bucky Barkley

    Bucky Barkley Well-Known Member

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  3. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    Thank you very much for the link. I had not found that rather in depth post! I appreciate it much. I do have a question though, because a statement seems to contradict itself. In that section it says "Incarnations can go back to being normal people - not a permanent state, but cannot leave the inner realm without Ajna wanting them to."

    The not a permanent state, does that mean that them being absorbed is not a permanent state, or them going back to being normal people is not permanent?

    I'm guessing it means that being absorbed is not permanent, but they only get to go back to normal when Ajna allows it, essentially.

    Perhaps I should go ask that in the that thread?
     
  4. Meow-Professor

    Meow-Professor Getting back into the swing of things Beginner Mod

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    I believe I read somewhere that being absorbed is not permanent, but don't quote me on that.
    We're not quite sure yet how we're going to divert lore discussion, but for now it would probably be best to put your lore questions there, yeah.
     
  5. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    I won't quote you on it (except in the above quote :P), but I will decide that you are correct until proven otherwise. I say that because I really want to like this game. It's got an art style I love, the world is cool, I like metroidvania style stuff, etc. The only thing that holds me back is the absorption being permanent (in other words, the other characters are essentially dead.) That would just make the story too painful for me to be able to enjoy the game with the demise of so many characters. Story is the most important thing to me in games I play. I can enjoy a game if the game play is bad, but the story is amazing, but I can't enjoy the game if the story is something I don't like, no matter how good the game play is.

    But if it is true that it's not permanent, then I can really like this game. So, I will change my stance to looking forward to the games release for now! Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. That (possible) revelation actually made my day.

    And I will direct further questions to the other thread, if I have them. Good day sir! :)
     
    Meow-Professor likes this.
  6. chillbean

    chillbean wasting time

    Unknown
    @MelodyofE For the record, the question of whether Incarnations are dead was asked a lot during the crowdfunding (and still is apparently), mostly because that was generally the case for Valkyrie Profile as I understand it. Initially LabZero dodged questions asking for specifics about the plot, but I'm assuming because this question was getting asked so often and perhaps they were concerned about this type of thing happening, they eventually stated many many many times on twitter and other places that the Incarnations are not dead. This doesn't mean that characters won't die as a part of the story, especially if they're NPCs, but Mike Z has also stated in the past that he isn't a fan of games restricting who you can play with after they've been introduced (i'm paraphrasing). The fact that they are hoping to be able to fund a post game dungeon as well that seems to be canon also suggests to me that none of the Incarnations with a gameplay function are gonna croak.

    Also wrt the crossover incarnations, its been stated that the plan is for them to turn up directly in Ajna's Inner Realm, so I don't think they're getting absorbed in the typical way. I'm also not sure if LabZero would even get permission from the developers like Way Forward or Yacht Club Games to kill off their characters haha!
     
  7. The Dave

    The Dave Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, can you imagine if they introduce Annie with a brutal stab wound? And these are videogame protagonists, players thereof are practically guaranteed to have seen them die. It's part of playing.

    Could be "Game Over" is all in Ajna's head.
     
  8. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    Oh okay, that's cool to know. And I'm not completely opposed to characters dying, just the scale that would be required for ALL the incarnations is too much for me.

    I do hope that they are eventually able to be released though. If not, that's nearly the same thing as them being dead. They are forced to stay inside Ajna's realm unless she let's them out, they can't really do anything they were doing before, be with the people they care about, etc. It's only barely different then them actually dying, in my opinion. (Especially considering the lives they lead before, like that one "celestial" or whatever that was cleansing people of poison or whatever... I only read the bio of her once.)
     
  9. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

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    They aren't dead. It's not like Valkyrie Profile where they get killed and then Valkyrie absorbs their souls.
    They aren't free to go wherever they want whenever they want, but they are definitely not dead. And it's not because they're like, locked up or anything... More will be revealed by playing the game!™
    Also the guest characters aren't in the same uh, circumstances as the Incarnations, anyway.
     
    Flotilla likes this.
  10. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    Oh wow! I'm gonna assume based on the fact that a "Mike" was referenced when talking about the devs, and because you have lab zero under your name that you are indeed one of the developers. Thank you very much for talking the time to respond to my question. It's always awesome when the developers are involved in the community.

    It's great to hear you say that. I'm happy I posted here. Before I was very afraid of the game, but now I'm looking forward to it. Also, the way you phrased that last part spurs some ideas in my head and gives me hope for the ending of the game. But as you said "More will be revealed by playing the game!" so I will not ask any further. :)

    Good luck on the game project!

    P.S. I dig the quote in your signature. I'll have to remember that one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  11. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

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    Welcome to game dev by Lab Zero. :^)

    Oh, I just do that because it's cheesy.
    If you have further questions that I'm actually able to answer, by all means ask.
     
  12. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    But... I like the cheese!

    I just meant I wouldn’t ask any further about that. The only other concern I have regarding that topic is whether or not the absorption is permanent and I wouldn’t ask you that question. I wouldn’t want you to reveal such a major spoiler in a public forum. I needed to know whether or not the characters died by the absorption before I would play the game.

    Whether or not the absorption is permanent won’t stop me from playing the game, but it may stop me from playing it twice. (Though I admit if I knew in advance that this was the case, I'd consider not playing it, but I'm willing to take that risk at this point.) In my mind, if the absorption is permanent, the incarnations lives are ruined enough to the point that it’s little better than dying. I hope that Ajna figures out a way to release them from being bound to her, but if that’s not the case whether or not I can play the game a second time depends on how much I like the rest of story, but the absorption thing would be a major factor for me.

    (EDIT: I'd like to add that none of this is me saying that the permanent absorption would make the story bad, just it would add a layer of sadness for me that might prevent me from enjoying it.)

    But again, I wouldn’t ask for such a spoiler in such a public fashion. If I have any other questions, I certainly will ask though. Thanks for being willing to share! Not all developers are so awesome! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2015
  13. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

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    I'll never understand this. OOPS, thing happens, GUESS I HATE IT NOW.
     
  14. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    I... can't honestly tell if you are making fun of me or just expressing your confusion in a way that seems like you are. What's wrong with having things I do and don't like to see in a story? I mean character death is a pretty major thing so I'd think that would be on the list of things that's acceptable to make a person not like a story if it happens in a way they don't like, but I guess that's just me.

    Anyway, to try and explain it: It's not that I hate it because a bad thing happened. In the case of this game it was since there were so many incarnations it was going to be too much for me if it was death. But to more directly answer your confusion, I just have a high level of empathy. I feel the emotions of the characters (not I understand them or relate to them, I FEEL them. When they are sad, I am too), so when there are too many bad things in a story, I can't enjoy it because all I feel are negative emotions and everything reminds me of them. I go into a game/movie/anything with a story for fun and entertainment, not to become depressed. So it's not that I hate it, but I can't enjoy it.

    I don't enjoy negative emotions en mass, but I don't mind stories that have some negative emotions in them. In fact a story is usually enriched by having a rainbow of emotions in it and still enjoyable. But when it's on the level that would be come from thirty characters meeting their ends (or their lives being irrevocably ruined), that's too much for me.
     
  15. Fumako

    Fumako Jimbob

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    B-but... character death that makes sense with sensible character reactions are probably my favourite bit from anything ever...
    I know how you feel though, except that I enjoy feeling the sadness ^-^"
    IF I remember correctly there was some sort of war or empire expansion or rebellion going on? Better prepare them tissues.
     
  16. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    Er... I won't deny that a character death scene well written can be moving, but it's nothing compared to the feeling of relief when everything works out. At least for me anyway.

    I'm not completely opposed to character death. It has it's place and can certainly do well in a story and part of what makes it good is how the characters react and deal. But, if it happens a lot then it ruins the story, in my opinion.

    I'm aware. But you can have war stories where the main characters of your plot still make it through it while running the emotional gambit. Take most any final fantasy game, pre-FF 13. My favorite is final fantasy 9 and in that one at least 2 kingdoms get decimated by half way through the game. But the story ends so fantastically and a lot of the details along the way make up for it, with the character growth. So just because there is a war and a rebellion going on doesn't mean that it will be too much.
     
  17. Kawalorn

    Kawalorn Aka Oni

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    The second, definitely. That's just how Mike expresses himself.
     
  18. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

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    Nothing. But deciding you don't like something, without having experienced it, on the basis of an occurrence is strange to me. It just feels very Comic Book Guy.

    en masse
     
  19. K.Radical

    K.Radical Ultimate stranger

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    Time to put out the sarcasm detector!
     
  20. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    I think you misunderstand. I know myself very well and know how I react to certain things, so I avoid those things. If the absorption equaled death, that wouldn't be an occurrence, would it? It be many, many occurrences. I know me, and there is no way I would like such a story (do in part because I HAVE seen such stories, and I can't stand them). Character death is something I have some very strong feelings on, and stories that use it a lot I think misuse it. Just my opinion, of course. An opinion I think is correct, :P, but I still acknowledge it is my opinion.

    Additionally, I was saying that in the case that the absorption was permanent, it would add a layer of sadness to the story that I don't like. That it is to say, it would make me feel sad at what those characters have lost. Such a thing would be very hard for me to see past, but I acknowledge in that case it's still possible that I would enjoy the story, depending on how it goes. I'm just at a point in my life where I really don't need that sadness from my entertainment, but that one I'm willing to take a chance on because the rest of the game seems that good.

    I hope you can understand that I'm not dismissing or looking down on stories simply because they don't fit into the mold I think they should be in, like that insulting Comic Book Guy. My reasons for not liking them ahead of time due to certain aspects are heavily based in emotion and experience. Bad things happening in stories have a way of sticking with me sometimes, so I avoid certain ones. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say.

    That was an honest typo and not an ignorant misspelling.
     
  21. ChimericalBeast

    ChimericalBeast New Member

    Ah, I think I get you. It's like when my friends invite me to a horror movie, and I want to know how much gore is in it before making a decision.

    You want to know if something is going to be too upsetting for you to enjoy it.

    As I understand it, absorption isn't permanent and (most) incarnations voluntarily join Ajna because they believe in her cause.
     
  22. CranialRectosis

    CranialRectosis Cool cats, alley cats, fat cats,

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    To be fair, most of the time you can just look at the cover or poster of a movie and answer that question yourself pretty quick. Blood soaking a thing is common.

    Wonder how the odd ones out feel about getting absorbed.
     
  23. ChimericalBeast

    ChimericalBeast New Member

    That was an example. Let me try again.

    Some people, due to psychological or emotional or just personal reasons, need to avoid certain things to protect their emotional health. I think MelodyofE wants to avoid an emotional experience they know they don't enjoy.
     

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