Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by Skodial, Feb 24, 2016.
I did, and somewhere in here was that match with your dream comeback
I felt like I played great Saturday. I was much calmer, and finally stopped using MP to hit confirm. I'm comfortable with Val now... comfortable enough to stay calm to turn a match around. Now, to work on that with Bella
So, after watching your practice for salty here are a few things:
-Counter call with H LnL more. This was especially apparent vs Tom Ham since he called his assists a lot. If you had punished his Beat extend assist calls at neutral with H LnL then his Band would have been bleeding and he either can't call that assist until it recovers some health (so now you can approach from the air much more safely) or he risks his assist getting killed.
-When you call H LnL, take that as an opportunity to apply pressure to your opponent. Unless they grab you or hit both you and Bella with a multi-hit normal, they basically have to hold that pressure because of LnL's armour. This means pretty much free pressure for you but you usually just took that as an opportunity to back off instead.
-Less bypass in neutral or at least throw scalpels (save the meter you use on random scalpels for this).
-You do a good job of loading vials as Val but you get nothing off of them because you are just tossing them in neutral and they either get blocked or whiff. You can incorporate vials into your combos pretty easily, just change your final chain to LPx3, MPx2, cr.MK (2), HP, Vial Toss, EKG. This also won't use your otg unlike the HKx3, H Bypass ender. If you want to use a vial in neutral, use the green vial as it will let you hit confirm off of it if it hits due to increased hitstun.
-Go for low resets. You almost always go for throws in your resets as Val when low gives more damage. What you should do is look to see how your opponents react during your resets (do they downback, upback, mash a reversal or try to throw tech?) and then tailor how you reset around that. Low beats upback and attempted throw techs (if done right), throw will beat upback and downback + assist will beat reversal (unless it is a command grab reversal, then do up or up-forward + assist).
I have finally begun to call assists to punish something that an opponent does, and do it without needing to think about it and process that as an option. It really hurt his raw Double assist, a character that is a challenge for me. Its nice that I can look back at that and think "I knew to do that, and it worked. Do it more"
Something that I'm still working out. I keep on thinking that I should back off, then come in. But yes, I should try just staying on top of an opponent. Maybe at least call LnL assist on their wake up and block...or maybe c.LK or j.LK?
I got Bypass happy, and got lucky a lot...also got punished. Sometimes people just stopped blocking, and I would go for it. The barrage of Air Scalpels was to punish assists. This is something I'm trying this week to see what happens. I haven't assessed how successful it is yet, but a character at half health when they come out is a confidence boost mid-match.
Tons of whiffed vials. BUT...guess what most people do after they block or avoid a vial. They stop blocking and start coming in. Not all the time, but I've noticed people do this about 2/3 of the time. I saw that, and started using them as bait to get someone to come at me so I could bypass in. This probably isn't a great tactic, but I saw moderate success.
-Go for low resets. You almost always go for throws in your resets as Val when low gives more damage. What you should do is look to see how your opponents react during your resets (do they downback, upback, mash a reversal or try to throw tech?) and then tailor how you reset around that. Low beats upback and attempted throw techs (if done right), throw will beat upback and downback + assist will beat reversal (unless it is a command grab reversal, then do up or up-forward + assist).[/QUOTE]
Does c.LK beat upback? I thought I was trying that (maybe I wasnt...I'll need to look). But a lot of people have been upbacking. The grab is my go to reset. I know it scales horribly, but it does work. And I do use lows sometimes in the corners. But overall, definitely becoming a stronger player.
*MIKE Z USED MY FIGHTSTICK!*
...what? It ok to fangirl from time to time
After SALTY on Friday night, I took most of the weekend off from the game. I've been grinding a lot recently. I needed the break. Again, I was unable to progress at all in the brackets. But, I also found myself holding my own against players who used to trample me. Even got some revenge against someone who knocked me out of a previous SALTY in a casual set. I saw how competent I am with Val, and what I need to work on next with Bella (like holding a neutral game, how to get in with something beside tumble run and j.HK, and getting faster with using her commands).
I have a set lined up for this evening, but if anyone would like to play some matches with me this week just let me know. If you do run a set with me this week, I will most likely be recording. Figure it would be polite to let people know ahead of time.
You free tomorrow for some matches? I gotta start working on my comeback. Watching how vastly you have improved should provide the necessary motivation.
I am free tomorrow afternoon. I want to say around the 4 o'clock hour (PST). Would somewhere around there work for you?
I gotta get back to you tomorrow. I'm free mostly but I am meeting a shady contact downtown sometime during the day, but I don't know exactly when yet. Should be OK though, it'll likely happen early afternoon, which is noon for you.
Solo Bella for Get GR8? Yep. Screw it. Get GR8 is a place to see where you are at, and people chime in on directions they recommend you take next. As I'm sure many people do, I find myself so focused on winning instead of learning. My Val play is in a place where I think I can place her as secondary to Cerebella. There are countless matches where I fall apart because I'm nowhere near as decent with Bella as I am with Val.
I have all the tools I need to not be a potato with Bella, but I don't see it translating into my gameplay yet. My lasting challenges with her is changing up from a neutral game to offense, and becoming confident and efficient in her commands. Its a good thing I like Cerebella (still haven't figured out why yet...i just really like this character in the same way I enjoy playing Valentine).
Luck. The word of the day is luck.
Also patience. I'm not exactly patient at times, but I have become a much more patient player than i used to be. After putting the hard grind in on Cerebella this past week (and ignoring Val), it paid off. I finally felt fairly confident with her.
It's interesting to see your opponent become impatient, which leads to you seeing their mistakes. Even if you believe that he or she is more "skilled" than you are, losing your cool seems to instantly consume any perceived advantage. Maybe just staying patient is actually a legitimate and valuable skill to have in this game...
Matches from today's Get GR8 are incoming.
I had two hours of sets recorded. Two full hours I set aside for SG sets...
And it's all a laggy, borderline unplayable mess. Looks like I figured out why I was dropping combos mid-air
So...that's means more recording time today. And I have a Cerebella question, relating to tumble run and her Kancho move. Sometimes, it doesn't happen. I will do the run, and go around the opponent...and then nothing happens. Sometimes, though, I'll do it and it works perfectly. is there a timing thing to it? Or could I just be doing something derpy? I'll record and show my issue in the lab.
Holding Kancho input(MK/MP during run) will allow you to do the asspoke.
Otherwise, you'll do a crossup feint.
Welp. My issue is a derpy one. I filmed myself on the stick to see what I was doing. Turns out, I was hitting MP more than once, causing Kancho to not happen; a feint. Mashing buttons because mashing buttons has been a long-term issue of mine that I continue to work on. Calming down on the stick did wonders for Val, and I'm sure it will help my Bella game.
Thanks for the post. Just reading your response made me think 'Wait...i wonder what I *am* doing?'
Consistency like a moldy potato. But, when I'm on mai game I pull off big first time wins. This one felt really good.
The new patch must be making me better
The Beverly Hillbilly learns patience.
It's super effective!
There's a secret, and I'll let y'all in on it: Be patient. Be very patient. Ignore the clock, and only press one button at a time (unless your doing something that requires multiple buttons). I would say that I'm now beating people I shouldn't be...but I guess if I am improving on things, then I should be able to beat people I couldn't before.
I start at 1:23. Yea, dropped combos from hype. But...dat patience doe. Never panicked, and beat effing LSF
If you have nothing planned, there a new tourney this evening! It's been put together by N0837. It starts at 8pm EST / 5pm PST
Signup page if you would like to join: http://challonge.com/thisisaskullgirlstournamentithink
After a week of big firsts, i'm feeling really good about this one. May even win a set in the winners' bracket for the first time!
It's been a while since I've recorded. Life gets busy sometimes, and recordings like to corrupt themselves...and computers like to be moody. But it's been a week of ups and downs, like many people have. But there have been a couple more first time wins. That has been one of the biggest motivators.
The firsts have come from learning new things. Being able to place, and pull off, resets and burst baits in different spots of Val combos has made a huge difference. I'm learning how to pull off the guessing game with Valentine. I'm not Duckator, but I have now entered a higher level of game play.
I still suck with Cerebella. Still working on figuring out her neutral game.
Shiny new ball top! Maybe the aluminum ones are heavy...but it looks cool. And we all know that the most important thing ever, is to be cool. Also tried out a heavier spring. For anyone wondering, the Hori hayabusa stick is super light. And it feels wrong when it isn't
Would there be any information on how to learn about Cerebella's neutral game? I think, a big think, that one of my cores problems with her is that I am clueless when it comes to anything besides her combo...
Also fest did a Bella tutorial with Dekillsage, try looking at that if you haven't already.
Does this video start from "what the **** am I doing"?
I'm kinda looking for that
Like, the combo and resets I have aren't awful, and they work. But, that is ALL I have
I've told many people who start out in SG "In some cases, if you really want to improve, you probably will have to do quite a bit of reading"
It's time to read up on Cerebella's frame data along with watching tutorial videos.
If I want Cerebella to be at the level my Val play is at, I will need to add some intermediate tech and combos.
And here's the combo
I've read this several times, but it still does not sound clear: The instant Runstop thing with Cerebella. I read it as " hold back to charge, then Forward + LP and LK to do the Runstop". Is that right? Up to now, I've been mashing the LK button to do this, but it doesn't look as clean as how other Bella players do it. Im assuming that they are doing something like this.
For runstops I use LK+HK (though LK+MK also works). You don't want to use LP+LK because this is 1f slower than doing it with 2 kick buttons (don't ask me why). Sure, it ain't much but anything to make those run stop links easier.
I'm assuming everything above the combo are the resets you want to learn. Just some notes:
-For the first reset: cr.LK, cr.MK, RS, airgrab/j.HP. Don't use j.HP unless it is in the corner because you get nothing off of it as it will just toss them away. The reason you would use j.HP instead of airgrab is to catch the tech attempt, instead use LK, MP. This keeps you grounded and sets up a land cancel reset opportunity if they block (LK, MP, MGR) and leads into a full combo if it hits since you can hitconfirm after the LK, MP. You can also do left right mixups from this setup by either doing cr.LK or dash cr.LK (cr.MP on Band and this won't crossunder vs Double).
-What is the second reset supposed to be? If you are trying to setup a left right from your launcher using bypass then this isn't a good mixup because bypass has very little range. This sort of setup works with tall assists as they are forced to block the left right and guess + whatever mixup you do on the ground.
-The third one is a reset with pummel horse? If so, don't reset with pummel horse, if it is blocked then you are punishable for ages. Instead do RS, cr.LK/Cmd throw/instant j.HP/kanchou. This is much safer (apart from kanchou) and gives you more options.
-For a midscreen combo this is the best one I know of:
If you add a titan knuckle on the end then it does 8.8k which is crazy and if you finish in the corner you can either do another dynamo or battle butt (more damage than TK) or cr.HK, Battle butt/RS (battle butt/RS will armour through any burst giving you a mixup). This combo is pretty hard if you aren't used to run stop links though, so a combo that you could do to work up to it is: cr.LK, cr.MP, HP, Kanchou, cr.MK, j.MP, j.HK, HP, PH, cr.MP, cr.HP, j.LPxN, j.HP, cr.LK, cr.MP, HK, Cerecopter, Dynamo. This one doesn't have any run stop links but still teaches you to use kanchou and pummel horse. I don't know what damage it does but it should be pretty good. Once you learn run stop links you can transition to the full combo. It is important for this combo that you input kanchou as <-, -> MK+HK as otherwise you the kanchou can be blocked vs Band (because he's fat). Vs double you have to do dash, cr.MK or it will whiff (this is quite tight so you might want to learn either a Double specific bnb or just use your normal bnb vs her).
Is Cerebella's HP > Pummel Horse still possible? I've been trying to run it in beta, and it appears that the HP's hitstun is not long enough to make PH possible. Is there something I'm missing?
its hard to do. hold lp + lk, forward + hk
So I do the HP. Then hold back and LP + LK. Then do Forward +HK while still holding the LP + LK? Im still a little confused as what to do with my hands.
I feel like Ricky Bobby driving a car with an automatic transmission.
Yup. Charge that before hand
A little tips that you should keep note of and little important things to keep your damage optimized, or at least get more damage off a combo.
1. Doing c.MP after Pummel Horse can be a sort of hard link at first, or online in general. You can mash out Stagger to make the link at least a 5 frame link, which can actually be difficult online.
2. This can be tough to time on some characters, but you should probably learn the ender, s.LPx2 > c.MK > f.HP xx Cerecopter/or/Excellebella. Just practice it on the whole cast so you can time it consistently.
3. Try to keep note or learn mid/heavy weight combos. Links like c.HP > j.MP > j.HK, c.HP > j.MP > j.MK > j.HP, and j.LP/K > j.MP > j.HK on the tall characters.
You can do things like Excellabella or Cerecopter after doing Titan Hammer?
After titan knuckle yes! Not the tentstake hammer s.hp. cr.mk lifts them into the air and from there you can punch them.
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Another thing is that you can use Cerecopter for more damage when a combo ends or use Excellabella for mroe meter at the end.
By the way, Cerecopter after titan knuckle midscreen only works with assists. Bypass/c.MK isnt one of them.
It's time to get back into using this thread the way I used to. I have forgotten about how much it has helped me.
I have train wreckage to look through:
The train wreck begins at 1 hour, 43 minutes.
Myself is a really good player, obviously a much more competent player than me. I look at the matches. I listen to the commentary. I see panic, and a one sided match that I probably made worse. While some mistakes I do see (old mistakes that come back when I panic), I see myself on a new plateau. It's a higher one than the previous one, at least. While there is a level of frustration, i'm kinda just sitting here with a giant question mark above my head. i'm missing something vital...something that isn't a combo or magical gameplan.
I have a new Cerebella combo that is almost ready for matches, and I'm better at using runstops. also, i'm finally learning about how to use her commands better. I have finally been able to work out some reset idea in the training room for Val that aren't super obvious. So there's something positive. Looking back on it, I should have skipped today's Get GR8. It wasn't the best idea to play when I am changing so much. It was all I could think about, things I want to be able to do...
Following the advice that fenster gave:
-Val block strings should honestly just end at c.mk. It's -2, but in the amount of time where you do a full block string into heavies, you're going to be pushblocked. c.hp > dead cross is punishable by jab, and the pushback of s.hk x3 > dead cross makes it safe, but if you get pushblocked during a s.hk string your options are super limited if they jump afterwards. You're going to be stuck in the recovery of s.hk, and you can continue whiffing the rest of the s.hk, but only the first hit anti-airs. You can cancel into dead cross, but that's going to whiff against jumpers and will give them more time to land a counter hit. L bypass gives a similar effect. Your only options in this situation to stop a jump in would be to super, and that's super risky.
Also, block strings are where copter assist shines. As soon as you get them to block, call copter. It can't be pushblocked, and during this time you have the opportunity to open them up with a low/high/crossup while they are locked down.
-Painwheel is a weird matchup for Val. As soon as you block painwheel, you let them make you guess when they are going to go for an overhead/low/throw. At the same time, if you get painwheel to block, she doesn't have good reversal options. So keep the pressure. Painwheel's main reversal is her air super, so reset when she's grounded. Also air grabs work great against painwheel.
-Eliza blockstring into divekick bird. Punishable by grab. Bird servant completely whiffs.
So for the whole block string thing: So I'm going for my combo starter, and it's blocked. Um...I go through my buttons and end on the HP. I really thought dead crosses were a decent end to a block string. I'm hitting the buttons so fast, I get to the HP before I know it. Then I watch the painful punish. I'm not sure where to start with fixing this.
I never see a Painwheel, so that matchup was bound to be a mess.
Eliza is giving me as much trouble as Painwheel and Beowulf does. The giant question mark appears above me when I see her.
Copter as an assist baffles me. In casual matches, I kinda mash it. I'm still figuring out when to use it
So this isn't a review of Get GR8. This was more of a 'licking wounds' day in the game.
And yes, I know the lag was awful in this set. But maybe there is useful information that will help me in here.
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