Let me hustle

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by Zidiane, Jun 11, 2014.

?

What is a man?

  1. A miserable pile of secrets

    29.7%
  2. You thought it was a poll answer, but it was I, Dio!

    23.4%
  3. Fuck you

    46.9%
  1. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Not quite sure the entire purpose of these things, but I'll make one anyways.

    -Commit v3 and v2 TODs to memory. I keep doing MDE combos, I need to upgrade already.
    -Buy a new pad. I don't want to, but my current one is in unacceptable condition. This is the most important thing on this list.
    -Figure out what exactly is a Fukua.
    -Get more used to Big Band. Should remember that he has an AA grab. And that Cymbal bait thing I did to Peanuts was cool (tumble run to bait cymbals, lvl 3 cancel to punish followup), remember to do that more often.
    -Stop treating Squigly like she doesn't have any options. Should stop running at her and stop gliding. And stop getting hit by full screen sing>super when trying to hit an assist. Remember that her c.mk in a block string can be punished.
    -Stop pretending every Peacock is McPeanuts. Also remember to stop her teleport thing with 360.
    -Learn how to deal with Cerebella. I know most matchups in the original cast except vs Bella. New characters are iffy cause I haven't been able to play consistently.
    -Start paying attention to people. Playing for fun is fine and all, but should start actively making notes of everything they're doing and what they've figured out I'm doing. I don't think I can just rely on instinct anymore.
    -Get the 8k MGR combo down. Also, see how consistent I can get grab>Pummel Horse.
    -Figure out what exactly can beat air PBGC j.hp low to the ground. Is it even a thing I should be doing?
    -Stop gliding when they have Double assist. Either that, or learn to Super Jump glide.
    -Learn timing for PBGC lvl 3. I should be thrown in prison for not learning before now.
    -Remember that blocked lnl is (edit: relatively) safe. It's like I input the move knowing, but by the time they block I forget.
    -Get the Anti-Pushblock blockstrings down. Also see if I can TOD off of it should they not block (I doubt it, unless maybe I start with 3 bars).
    -Stop doing that really cool burst bait that only works mid screen in the corner. Seriously, when they're in the corner that's the only time I remember I can do it.
    -Stop fucking up that Devil Horns xx 360. Can't afford to miss that during an important moment.
    -Apply safe resets to figure out what they're doing.
    -Remember to do those cool mashing bait setups when someone is mashing. I never remember to do it in the heat of the moment.
    -Figure out exactly what is the deal with the fake corner crossup j.hk. It's guaranteed to work if they're smart. But why can't I recreate it in training mode? Character specific?

    That's all for now. I'm tired and I can't remember anything else I'm supposed to be doing.

    2015 edit: crossed out all the things that are outdated, or dumb.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  2. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    No Zidiane. Bad Zidiane.

    I suggest we make character improvement threads in each character sub forum so people can post videos of their play to be criticised. I think it is much more likely to get people involved and help people out than using Skullheart as their desktop notepad.

    I say this here because you are probably the best person to make the Cerebella one and we can get the ball rolling on this. Maybe some of the sub forums already have this? I haven't noticed if so.
     
    dragonos451 likes this.
  3. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Dead ass Tomo pressing me.

    There's a Self-Improvement and Critique thread in the Cerebella section designed for people to post vids of themselves and ask for help. No one uses it. Problem being that not everyone can record themselves. If it wasn't for other people being able to record, there would be zero footage of me online. I'd be more than happy to start a thread that Cerebella's benefit from, but I need the proper format so that everyone can participate and improve without any prerequisites like a recording device.
     
    Tomo009 likes this.
  4. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    I think you'd be surprised.

    Constructive criticism happens all the time in my thread when I post sets. While I get a lot of input from the same people I'd get help from in character specific forums, I also see a lot more new faces than I would otherwise that help a lot with more general or team-specific concepts.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  5. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    Hit confirm city in a block stun state.

    I played about 80 matches against Sev's Fukua + The Shell, and I didn't take a single game from him. It really feels like you just have to be super patient about getting in on her and/or backing her into a corner. Lots of dash + block, trying to duck/slide/armor/double-jump through and around things intelligently, aggressively pushblocking her into the corner, diligently touching her horizontal assist for lockout, and using any ranged tools you have to make her waste fireballs.

    The only character that's really comparable imo is Peacock, and there's some similarities that worked for me. If you think about her ground fireball covering a zone comparable to sHP/H-Bang, her air fireball having an arc comparable to planes, and her upward fireball + clones covering zones comparable to item drops, and that jHK occupies/challenges the same space as peacock's [jLP|jLK|airthrow] the spacing is easier to grasp.

    The similarities kind of end there though. The biggest thing that's different is her timing, because she doesn't just turret everything out from one place like Peacock, and she has really really really good buttons. I feel like she has to be more reactionary/aggressive about challenging you at midscreen than Peacock would be, A) to preserve space and B) she converts a lot from mid range with jHK.

    Also her mashes are great (drill on wakeup > throwable MP Bang, drill SRK super on bad jump-ins, BFF in general) and she can blow up bad assist calls with fireball supers relatively safely.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  6. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I have more stuff, I guess. Here's other notes I left for myself but forgot about until today.

    Filia resets: Find out the exact input of that pain in the ass setup that can overhead, low, crossup overhead, air grab, etc. FIND OUT HOW TO BEAT IT. Urgent. Can't leave this an unknown solution any longer.

    Getting reset while airborne: At GUTS3 Sage kept putting me in the air while Hornet Bomber went off beneath me and going for resets. I didn't like that. Find out what exactly I need to do to get out of that.

    Getting up: Figure out what to do on wakeup. Right now, I've honestly never thought about it before so I have no thought out options really.

    Air pushblock: When I pushblock in the air, figure out the safest way to land against characters like Filia and Val who like to jump at me and keep attacking.

    Safe resets: memorize the best ways of resetting each character. Detailed everything in the guide, but never memorized it. Double check the options to ensure characters can't mash normals/airdash/specials in the air even for character whose optimal pressure is on the ground.

    • Vs Cerebella: Reset with j.hp/DDrop/MGR if she's mashing. Remember, j.hp loses to BButt/Dynamo/Devil Horns, DDrop loses to Dynamo/Devil Horns, MGR loses to US/Devil Horns. If you really aren't sure what she's gonna do, go for s.hp, runstop, jump forward. You get around all mash options, and can go for crossup j.lk if they don't mash.
    • Vs Filia: Armor/MGR to beat anything she mashes. Use hp lnl, she can't jump back out of it cause of preblock, and nothing she mashes has enough hits to knock Bella out before she can super. MGR is a good option if you're more confident she won't mash, since it gets more damage than lnl, but perfecting s.lp, s.lp, /s.hp/, MGR is much better (even though it loses to delayed mashing (Record Bella doing it to me as Filia, see if mashing needs to be perfect to work).
    • Vs Peacock: Bella can basically do whatever as long as Peacock doesn't predict hit/grab. Even still, you can set up and beat whatever Peacock does. c.lk, c.mp, s.hp, runstop, jump forward j.hp, c.lp beats both reversals Peacock has. Another setup (for Peacock's taught to standblock your j.hp) is c.lk, c.mp, s.hk, runstop, c.lk, MGR (after any runstop, really, but s.hk makes it easier to not accidentally combo). The c.lk, MGR also beats every mashed option Peacok has. The c.lk will whiff on MP bang, normally meaning you get punished, but MGR protects you and grabs Peacock. The c.lk will also knock Peacock out of lp bang, and MGR will grab her after the hitstun ends. The only thing that'll beat this strategy is if Peacock actually mashes lp bang nonstop (which I've never seen a Peacock do, cause it's not good). Edit: Also, if she just hold up like a goon.
    • Vs Fortune:
    • Vs Parasoul: s.lp, s.lp, s.lk (never comes out), Titan Knuckle, MGR is the perfect timing to grab Parasoul out of Pillar. If she cancels into lvl 3 instead, if you have 3 bars you can cancel into lvl 3. If not, cancel into Devil Horns xx Super to punish. The super can be Dynamo or Showstopper. The best thing to do though is to reset Parasoul in the air, where she has no reversal options. Try c.mk, j.lp, j.lk, j.hk/grab reset. With j.hk (gets beat if the opponent mashes grab) it can hit them in the air if they mashed a normal for a HCH combo, or they could land and either block or get hit. If they pushblock, following up with c.mp will put you in a place to MGR. This is a great option, but need to check to see if they can mash after touching the ground. Also, c.mk, glide, j.hp beats every option she has. As a matter of fact, c.mk allows parasoul to move before she touches the ground, meaning Parasoul is essentially helpless for several extra frames until she touches the ground, and if she tried to mash anything before then she gets punished or pressured for free. An interesting pressure option is to do c.hp, j.lp, j.lp, j.mp. The combo will drop, and if she mashed anything she'll either get hit airborne by j.mp, or she'll land and do her reversal but the j.mp will whiff and you'll land safely.
    • Vs Valentine:
    • Vs Painwheel: Do c.lk, c.mp, s.hk, runstop, nj.hp. Beats everything she can mash. Hatred moves, Death Crawl, lvl 3, fly xx air super. The only thing she can do is mash install and block. But, if that's the case, she should have just blocked in the first place. You can also replace nj.hp with MGR to beat all the same options minus fly xx super, but beats install.
    • Vs Double:
    • Vs Squigly: You can devil horns after the super flash of Daisy Pusher to stay safe if she tried to catch one of your normals.
    • Vs Big Band:
    Need to get the other characters done at some point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
    Broseidon Rex likes this.
  7. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Didn't know exactly where to put this. Ripped from @SonicFox5000's stream. A little under an hour in length. Gonna put it here and in my Recorded Matches thread too. I don't get footage of me doing poorly in long sets very often, so anyone see anything they can point out about my play that isn't "you're playing a solo", please tell me. I'm not very good at being a tournament player, so I don't really know how to dissect my own play.

    @mcpeanuts I see you looking at gameplay critically all the time, and I trust your opinion. You also have probably seen me play more than anyone. Do you think you can help here?


    He uses Fukua/Bella at first, switches to Fukua at 9:13, and finally switches to Filia/Bella at 19:40.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
    SonicFox5000 likes this.
  8. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    @Zidiane any time you tag me in threads it doesn't notify me. I don't know why. I get notifications when other people tag me. Anyways I'll take a look.

    e: Only watched the Fukua/Bella matches so far but it seems to me that in every game you lost, Sonic Fox whiff punished something and then reset you forever until you died. Some of them weren't really whiffs, you hit his assist but not the point. Since you play solo you can't counter call him and he's always protecting Bella in a way where he'll hit you if you try to punish her. As far as the resets go, no one's gonna guess right all the time but your rate of guessing is really low. Most of them were cross under/fake cross under resets or restand then command grab. As far as the left/right stuff goes you kinda just got to pick a side and hope for the best. For the grabs you could upback or you could 360, either one would have worked but you didn't go to either of those options very often.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  9. SonicFox5000

    SonicFox5000 The Furriest one here maybe CB/EVO Champ '15

    PSN:
    SonicFox5000
    XBL:
    SonicFox5000
    Filia
    Double
    Fukua
    Ayyy lmao whos that filia scrub
     
  10. Broseidon Rex

    Broseidon Rex POWER UP!

    Steam:
    Will Drop For Diamonds
    XBL:
    Broseidon Rex
    Cerebella
    Could throw in more empty jump throws or jLK to throw. It seemed then whenever jLK to cLK didn't chain, he was able to PB you away and start the neutral again, which seemed to work for him. Only based on 9 minutes at the moment tho, so take with salt.
     
  11. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Wow, I made this thing and then stopped trying to get better. My PS3 is dead now, so I kinda am SOL until PS4 version.

    Umm... the game changing has made ALL of that TOD talk invalid (well... except HCH stuff). Which makes me sad. But I've managed to get a 1-reset 1v2 TOD, which is great. Also, a lot of my strategies to beat the things people mash with MGR is GONE. Both of which probably contributed to me kinda dropping the game.

    But someone asked me some questions about my team, and I gave an answer I should probably post here.

    "What's your team?"
    Cerebella. But, what I really want to do is get several pocket characters and rotate to a duo when I run into a problem she can't solve. I can handle most people with Solobella, but for specific strategies and setups I have a really hard time. I think I can make a rotation that'll cover me for most of these situations.

    "Who's in the stable?"
    I'm looking at Eliza, Fukua, and Big Band as characters to learn, and I already use Peacock. I also REALLY need to learn more Peacock, but she does what she's supposed to. Solobella works best when they come to me or let me catch them, so Peacock/Bella shuts down people who never want to let me near. Bella/Fukua with M shadow is a fucking god if they like staying at mid range and not pressuring me (or, not pressuring me more than I could deal with as Solobella). Bella/Big Band with his BB's dp assist should shut down rushdown that I can't really deal with without risking myself as a solo, which is huge. Eliza/Bella with Cerecopter/butchers blade should give me great space control that'll help me deal with more careful players.

    "You would always put bella point or change depending on matchup?"
    Yeah. She has the highest chance of beating any given person I run into, and if they win I'll know exactly how to deal with them.
     
  12. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I sorta want to get better again. I hadn't really put much effort into improving lately, but I want to start again. Everyone else has improved a lot, I'm really behind. Here's the two matches I played at NEC that I lost.

    VS @keninblack


    Zidiane's Analysis (open)
    @00:45 I really thought the Devil Horns was going to hit. I nearly canceled into US, but stopped myself because I was sure it was going to hit. The following reset: I really am super weak to crossunder lows. I can never seem to block them, even when I know they're coming (I didn't see that one coming though: I saw the startup and thought it was an overhead).

    @00:54 I am happy with how I hit double, but I think I fell into an old pattern of mine, which is chicken blocking when the opponent jumps in. It keeps me safe from overheads and I can pushblock to stay in the air, but I never think about them grabbing me. If I hadn't been so predictable here, this would have been a very nice turn around for me with Double half dead.

    @01:00 I read the overhead and pushed for distance, which was the smart thing to do I think, but I fell into another old pattern of mine. I glided forward and got HCH j.hp'd out of it. Glide is a terrible neutral option that can be beat so many ways, I really need to stop doing this. I think I still had a good chance this match before the glide. While I didn't die from it, I think I panicked just a tad and my momentum suffered for it.

    @01:17 This is where the match falls into Ken's pace and I lose. I think I did a very good job of being patient and trying to find a good moment to break free, but at @01:33 I fuck up and get impatient. I really wanted a deflect, since there were like two shots that if I deflected would have won me the game with jump in combo into level 3, but I threw the last chance I had in the game for it. Trying to deflect with the opponent that close is dangerous anyway, I shouldn't have done it.

    @02:18 Round start: I wanted to see what he did. If he jumped back I was calling Fukua, if he dashed forward I was going to try Diamond Drop. May have gotten stuffed by a c.lk, but I thought he was going to grab. He did pretty much the same thing I did, sat there and waited, but his assist call was better than mine. I shouldn't be calling Fukua that close to the opponent anyway.

    @02:19 I land a deflect forcing him to jump back or block. He jumps back and I go in with j.mk. That was the wrong move, I wasn't thinking as clearly as the first match. A lot of Parasoul's air moves will beat mine, and she can confirm off of them much easier. I lost like 30% of my health for this mistake.

    @02:25 Ken messes up his grab reset and I try and jump up and grab him in return. I should have instead gone for a low or a s.lk, that may have hit him out of the recovery or caught him upbacking.

    @02:28 There were a lot of buttons being hit. The only part I want to pay attention to is the PBGC j.hp. I fucked up and held the button too long. It looks like he went to crouch block and saw the glide and blocked correctly. If I had hit it instantly, that would have been enough to turn the round in m favor, and with a reset possibly Parasoul.

    @02:29 What happens here isn't even nerves, it's just me being out of practice. I miss all of the potential confirms, and get hit trying to deflect the sniper shot. I should have just blocked and punished, he had no meter to DHC.

    @02:36 I predict a grab attempt, but get hit.

    @02:49 I remember I have an assist and jump in and safe DHC. Then I show just how terrible my Fukua is.

    The rest of the match is fairly sloppy. Not worth going over.


    Mike Z's Analysis (open)

    Game 1
    You can combo j.LP->j.MP OTG c.LP, or at least j.LK?
    Random Horns should be cancelled to 360, since you can still combo even if the Horns hit. It would have worked there.
    You do stagger pressure into sweep a lot, like enough for your opponent to notice. But if you think they're gonna reversal just do run and armor it...
    Game 2
    You dropped every combo you started, two runstops and one spacing on c.MK. You go for hard things TOO MUCH, if you aren't SURE then go for easier things! Damage is damage. You never do that in this whole set, though. It's kinda a downside for you.
    skipped the Fukua section
    You combo off reflects well, but you guess them often.


    VS BandoNamcai


    Zidiane's Analysis (open)
    Looking at this match, I didn't do nearly as bad as I felt I did during the match. I think if I had shifted my mindset a bit, I could have come out on top.

    @0:53 start of the round jump forward. I thought he was either going to jump back or throw a shadow while calling an assist, and jump forward was a strong choice over both options.

    @0:55 I glide again. This is incredibly dangerous, especially against Fukua. I think if he hit j.hk, I would have eaten a full combo. Just because he didn't doesn't mean I did the right thing in that situation.

    @0:57 Fukua zoning starts. I'm just not very used to dealing with Fukua zoning. What I should have done, thinking back on it, was hold the distance where only m shadow and Double would have reached, and tagged Double with c.hk every time she reached me. It would have worked @0:58 (especially if I did c.hk into Deflector), and @1:01.

    @1:03 Bando seems to get frustrated with his own zoning and rushes me. I jump back and block Big Band while he rushes forward. I should have pushblocked in the air and came down with j.lk. That would have avoided the low and got me first hit of the game.

    @1:09 I realize he's going to keep calling Double, so I try and go for it, backing up to give him space to call it, but I use the wrong button. I should have just used c.hk.

    @1:13 I get a BIG deflector, but follow up wrong. I felt terrible about how the match was going, but if I had kept a calm head I would have done a j.hk and took both characters for the ride. It would have reached the corner and I would have double snapped, taking Big Band with me and leaving Fukua with a bleeding Double (had I been tagging her) behind her. I forgot the entire way I'm supposed to play because I got frustrated.

    @1:16 I used glide again. While Fukua of all characters was above me. I should have been punished much harder than I was.

    @1:17 I get hit by another low. I haven't blocked any lows this game. After that, a bunch of buttons are hit.

    @1:23 After a flurry of buttons, I react to an overhead, only to jump forward glide into Double butt. I don't know what I was thinking. I think I wanted to get away, but I did it all wrong. I really need to stop gliding. He jumps back though, instead of capitalizing on Double. I don't know why he did that.

    @1:28 I did the right thing by teching away. I wanted him to make space so I could cripple double, but I didn't do that. Instead I run face first into a shadow. I'm thoroughly shaken at this point.

    @1:32 I properly block the assist and Pushblock to defend against mixups, but I stop blocking low for some reason. There's nothing Fuckua can do after c.lk that isn't a low or a grab. I might have been trying to jump away, but I should have blocked the ground string and pushed her away to give myself space again. I then get hit by another low.

    @1:35 I block and push Big Band in mid air, protecting me from lows. I should have come down with j.lk like I usually do, that would have gotten me a full combo on Fukua. He jumps away after I don't, like he's been doing. I tag Big Band, but I shouldn't have tried to combo him. Just a c.lp would have worked well enough.

    @1:42 this is the moment I was waiting for in the moment. I was waiting for him to call shadow too late after Double so I could jump in and punish. It worked.

    @1:48 I hadn't hit him before so I didn't know how he would block, but I know he's been consistently jumping away from me so I went low.

    @1:51 I tried to bait something. I thought she was going to hit a button. I should have just done my combo and killed.

    @1:55 I didn't commit one way or the other. I wanted to bait a air super, but I also wanted to grab, so I delayed the grab super late. I am still unfamiliar with how to deal with incoming Big Band. I probably should have treated him like Painwheel, double jump while blocking.

    @1:57 I'm all the way fucked up by this point. The buttons I'm hitting are nonsense. I go for a burst bait, but completely mixup the one I want. I should have done something else anyway, I already saw he wasn't mashing air super on incoming.

    @2:04 I should have pushblocked the first hit of Big Band's super. I was on tilt so I didn't realize he had all the meter to DHC into anythin, I could have punished with PBGC US.

    @2:17 I make distance. I made too much distance, though. I think I was in that same "I'm fighting Fukua" mindset.

    @2:20 I get hit trying to pushblock in the middle of Double's j.hp. I think I should try pushblocking the latter hits of that from now on. It seems like it would save me from grab after while still letting me block, and if Double fast falls before it's over I can still just upback away.

    @2:26 I get hit by another crossunder low. I need to stop getting hit by those. The followup flash step reset I was not ready for at all. How do I see that coming?

    @2:33 this was my last chance to make a turn around, and I messed up. This was the point in the match that I realized he was using Big Band's medium step instead of heavy step.

    As the second match started, I thought about switching characters again, but I didn't think any of them could genuinely help me. Fukua would have helped, but I just figured I'd try to muscle through again. It didn't work.

    @3:03 I really wanted to hit Double, but I should have played it safe and blocked her instead.

    @3:07 I react to h shadow with chicken pushblock, protecting me from anything Fukua can try at that range. She jumps above me and I glide again, getting punished for it for the third time that night, the second time this set.

    After that I just am desperately mashing buttons in an attempt to hit Fukua, when I should have been using the strategy of hanging back and crippling Double instead. One c.hk and one lvl 3 would have killed Double would have been a strategy that he would not have been able to contest at all, greatly tipping the game in my favor. It would have forced Fukua to come in, and let me move around more freely. I could have won this fight, but my drive to hit the point really ruined this game for me.


    Mike Z's Analysis (open)

    Game 1
    You tech backward! Why the hell do you tech backward?
    You don't armor, at neutral, at all. No run, no LnL...and as a result you're kept pretty far out.
    Runstop-reset...dropped combo. You didn't drop the simple combo, but you dropped after the reset (I know you were baiting something in the air, but why bother?) Gotta work on the consistency! You also mistimed the incoming.
    Dropped runstop combo, ran too early for the Fierce.
    Burst bait on Big Band instead of either snapping or spending meter to kill? WHY?! You left him alive, and that lost you the match.
    When trying to get in, you never did run, just dash/jump.
    Game 2
    You don't hit assists, even with a launcher? Why not? You're a solo!
    No 360 at several opportune times. No throw during the staredown. You know, I don't think you ground-threw at all in either set.
    Finally, some armor use.
    No reflect on the super obvious fireball super?


    Overal NEC play summary (open)

    Zidiane (open)

    Against Ken I switch to Fukua. I feel like my general strategy that I talked about in the above post worked the way it was supposed to, so I'm happy with that. I lost, but the switch nearly turned the tables for me. If I had been putting more work into Fukua I think I would have had a good chance of winning that match. I think this set gave me confirmation that pivoting my team around Bella can work, which actually I think boosted my confidence a bit despite my losing.

    I need to be more willing in the future to take assists. Both Ken and Bando were offering their assists up to me, and I did very little to capitalize.

    Mike Z (open)

    Summary:
    - You're very cautious, especially once you've already got them, which doesn't really suit solo Bella.
    - You let characters live, rather than snapping for health or spending meter. This is bad decision making. :^S See above.
    - You dropped hella combos, mostly runstops. I think you completed (counting going into resets as "complete", too) maybe 2-3 combos. K.I.S.S. You're very addicted to "optimal", which is completely the wrong thing to be. Going for 70% damage, then dropping it and getting 25% is OBJECTIVELY WORSE than going for 50% and getting it.
    - No armor to approach, no Titan Knuckle, lots of baits instead of spending meter or snapping for health.
    - And NO THROWS?! How do you play a grappler and not throw? 360 does like 60% as a solo!
    (Throws must be done so they get scared of them and remember them as an option. Otherwise they are not a factor in your opponent's mindset. It's the threat of throws that lets you do other things.)
    - You don't reversal much, even to scare them. I think you only did one Dynamo, and that was in a combo...
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  13. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I've been asking for help improving from everyone I can. Mike Z commented on the above matches.

    Also had a set with @Dreamepitaph, and he commented on it extensively. He'll be uploading the set, so I'll add that here when it's up.

    Twerk (open)
    Cadenza: you focus too much on jumping, way too much. If you're getting clipped by lows then maybe you could stand to try actually blocking instead of jumping out of my resets. i do them on purpose to see what you do, and you jump A LOOOOOOOOOOT. you also press the wrong buttons to hit assist. majority of the time i deploy assist and you go an hit it with all you got. that's not good if someone is just baiting you on purpose. you're also OD passive with solo bella and play her like it was bella backed by M shadow. not once did i feel exceptionally scared in neutral by solo bella. i deployed tears and you went to reflect things

    work on your roundstarts man. usually my roundstart is s.lp s.lp because its safe and what not. your roundstart is either sweep, jump. neutral jump mind you. your roundstart is vital to how the pace of the game will play out. you also got caught by way too many day 1 burst baits. don't get button happy, think about my options as well as yours.

    Zidiane: When you say I jump too much, do you mean just on defense or in neutral too?

    Cadenza: defense, its clearly noticeable in defense, but you jump a lot in neutral as well becuase your approach is insanely one dimensional. there weren't any dash jumps, but mainly glide and double jumps

    Zidiane: Was there anything else you noticed?

    Cadenza: umm i was interested in your bella/M clone team so i'll speak mostly on that. the team is good however it has some flaws. you didn't safe guard your assist properly so all i had to do was rush down bella AND the clone at the same time and it pretty much died, either that or snap in fukua. that's mainly because you don't know her well yet. if you did then i would prolly rushdown bella more since you didn't advance until she got on the screen and didn't put much fear on me in neutral for M shadow to take efffect. M shadow should be called from a distance but you need to advance immediately after you call it, that way no one can scoop you and your assist up for a double snap. i would also recommend on staggering your lows better. you would do blockstrings that gave me PBGC opportunities. it was almost scary that i got those PBGC opportunies

    Zidiane: Which string, c.lk, c.mp, c.hk?

    Cadenza: yes. by the time you get to c.mp i can get the pbgc successfully. so in short. you need to work on your defense. jumping too much is bad for you. you need to work on your offense, its too passive in neutral and too committed in blockstrings. actually, too committed when hitting assist as well when you could just c.hp and then upback away

    Zidiane: what would be a better blockstring?

    Cadenza: c.lk,c.lk. that's all you need. so to speak. if you must autopilot then c.lk c.mp, m.lnl, but c.lk c.lk is literally all you need. your c.lk is what makes your grappler so scary, a max range c.lk that can convert, and then from that c.lk you can also mgr without warning.

    Zidiane: What about my Fukua? She's pretty under my Bella. What was I doing wrong, or not doing?

    Cadenza: pretty much you ran away as fukua. she's a jack of all trades, but you spent all day just double jumping away and pestering me with fireballs and buttons on the way down. you dont reset me enough to be scary of fukua as well. after j.hk you got alot of stuff, just cmd grab or delay low. there's a bunch just right there for you. you never ran up low either. the thing is, you never challenged me in neutral with fukua despite her having great run speed, a low that can be chained twice and a cmd throw that is fairly fast
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  14. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

    Location:
    West Canada
    Steam:
    Skarmand
    PSN:
    Skarmand
    Robo Fortune
    Double
    I was originally going to do this as a video, and this was basically my script.
    However my mic is broken and makes awful noises like bones crunching so I've just touched up the script a bit and I'll post that.

    This was still meant as a script so sorry if it's hard to follow or there's mistakes.

    A lot of mistakes are very easy to point out and talk about when you're watching a video.
    You're never going to play perfectly and make all the right choices, but sometimes it's helpful to know what the right choices are.

    That being said:

    ....

    Match advice for Zidiane vs Bando and Keninblack.

    Vs Keninblack (open)


    Game 1 (open)

    Your round start is fine.
    It's okay to be cautious and see what your opponent does.
    The block string into cHK was good and the standard tech chase is awesome.

    You're playing it perfectly so far.

    When you block the Double assist, it looks like you made a choice.
    You wanted to show Kenin that you weren't afraid to use reversals.
    Even though you got punished for this, it isn't so bad because you have now shown Kenin that he needs to be ready for reversals.
    The problem is that you did Horns which does not beat low shorts which is what Kenin will mainly be poking with.

    If you did Dynamo here, you would have hit Double and Parasoul both and carried them to the corner.

    --0:52--

    One thing to note is that any Parasoul that does jLP jLK jMP then cross under or fake cross under must use sLP if they want to counter hit you out of a falling jab.

    If you were to hit jLK/jLP/j2MP that would have been a counter hit if he did 6MP/2LK/6LP, and he did use 6MP.
    Also don't assume that your opponent is going to go for the fourth layer of mix up the first time, which would be doing that cross under and then going for 6LP/4Hk.
    You should be blocking cross unders low not high.
    Also any time Parasoul goes for anything that isn't 5LP/5MP etc after jLP jLK jMP, you can usually double jump out of it.

    --0:58--

    Hitting the assist was fine.

    Hitting the assist for a long time builds good damage but you have to be ready for the opponent to shoot you or out space you then move in once you're in hitstun/blockstun.
    Since you're stuck doing committed strings to the assist it's very easy to space a normal or fireball which is what lost you neutral and let him get close enough to read your up-back and get the air grab.

    --1:10--

    As soon as you get Parasoul in the corner and she has two meter she will be looking for every opportunity to Pillar Bikes Safe DHC.
    Because you don't have an assist to alpha counter with, or a DP assist to bait pillar, sometimes you will have to gamble on M/H LNL to absorb Pillar and then 360.

    --1:15--

    After the DHC, Kenin begins his Double pressure.
    Every time that Kenin does cHP he cancels it into gun.
    You can pick up on that pattern and go for reflects because at max range cHP > Gun is not a blockstring.

    I also think that when Kenin is using Gun + Pillar at the same time, he stays on the floor to protect his assist, and that's a good opportunity to super jump out of the corner.

    Eventually after waiting in the corner you get hit.
    The problem wasn't how you got hit in the corner or how he opened you up it's that his pressure was just standing in front of you waiting for you to make a mistake.

    If you were to pretend that you were mid-screen and Double was in front of you, you would get to do a lot of things.
    Titan Knuckle would have been perfect at that spacing.
    Jumping in with jHK/jMP after double jumps would have been difficult to deal with after Pillar was used.
    H LNL could have been used to absorb both cHP and Luger and do things, etc.

    When you get put in the corner like that and you have any room to breath, you gotta start looking for ways to get under or over the opponent and on the other side.
    If not, then you need to look for good ways to approach them so that you can carry them away with a corner carry or throw them in the corner, etc.

    You waited for an opportunity that wasn't coming.
    There is no better 'Green Light' for "Okay you need to try something" than being at about titan knuckle distance away from your opponent while your back is to the corner and they don't want to approach.
    It won't get any better.



    Game 2 (open)


    Patient round start again.
    That's fine.
    I usually run away so I understand the need to do nothing risky at the start in a tournament.

    Because of the way you are using Shadow, you should make sure that you are out of immediate range of Parasoul's pokes and Doubles LK Bomber assist range /before/ you call your assist.
    Otherwise you are going to just get her hit and that's when Double Snaps happen.

    At round start, Double is basically a projectile that goes the perfect distance to hit the point and an immediate assist call.
    Double is faster than M Shadow, so you'd want to back dash, then call, THEN move in.
    That's what I do with H Beam.

    --2:21--

    Poking the assist with 2LK is tempting but this is basically just a bait.
    The way the tear is set up, Parasoul can detonate it with jHP and hit you from even further away and more spaced than normal.
    It also lines the explosion up right beside the assist.

    You would have gotten corner carried if he dashed after the detonation.

    Be aware that jHP smack distance is basically doubled when you're beside a tear, so sometimes it's better just to move out of the way when one is placed on you.

    After the reflect, your assist is still locked out and you decide to challenge Parasoul air to air / air to ground with a jump in jMK.

    Now that you're using an assist which purpose in neutral as far as I'm concerned is to cover your approach and put trades into your favour and also save you in case you get hit, there is NO REASON for your to approach while your assist is locked out.

    When I don't have H Beam up, which serves the same purpose as far as jumping in goes but does a little more, I simply wait or backdash and stall for time until it's ready.
    I have fireballs to use until my assist is up.
    You have anti-fireball things to use until your assist is up as well as a double jump to create a wall below you and bait approaches.

    If you're going to be patient, make sure you always make things happen on your own terms.

    Anyway, moving in and calling M Shadow would have won you that air to air trade that you lost vs Parasoul's

    --2:27--

    Almost immediately after gaining control of your character, you call your assist.
    I don't think M Shadow is the correct assist for that kind of call.
    That was more of a Beat Extend call.

    Even if it was a DP assist, you immediately jump and air grab which was either a late reaction to the grab reset that whiffed, which is fine!
    ... Or it was you actually jumping forward to air grab on a read WHILE calling an assist behind you that hasn't even touched the floor yet.
    If you were hit out of the air by jLP or Hornet L, this would have killed Fukua due to her proximity to the corner.

    Basically, be more careful with your assist calls and really think about what you want the assist to do before you hit the button.
    If you're hitting an assist because 'assist' that's not good.
    You should be hitting M Shadow because you want it to cover you while you do something, and you want to give it time to activate so that Fukua doesn't just taunt when she lands and refuse to save you, getting you double snapped.

    --2:30--

    Beautiful chicken block!
    Terrible land cancel : (

    (If you don't know what this is, ask me)

    Make sure to pay attention to when you're up-backing air normals that you can counter hit with a land cancel jab.
    Because you push-blocked you didn't get to punish that.

    Also because the assist is out there is no way for him to make that hit safe.

    But, good 2LK to get the pick up.

    I'm not sure if the 2MK was supposed to be some sort of pillar bait and you failed to capitalized, but next time when you see Silent Scope or Motor Bikes at that range just always 360.
    Looking at it again it looks like you just missed the 2LK link.

    I think you even tried to 360 after Scope and just messed up the timing, which is fine, don't beat yourself up over that.

    This is also your first time hitting Parasoul this entire game, and you either you chose to bait after not even 5 hits, or you went for a fancy run stop combo and dropped it.
    Early resets are good, but sometimes if you're not confident in your reads you should take the guaranteed damage.
    At least for a little bit longer than 5 hits, because you are a solo character.

    If this was a drop, then that's because you probably should have done a simpler combo in tournament.

    Everyone has a lot of crazy specific neat combo stuff, but in tournaments you see a lot of the same BnB and simple conversions, and that's because it prevents stuff like this from happening when you're nervous.

    --2:39--

    PBGC Air Throw!

    Sometimes you don't have to commit to such a defensive read when your opponent hasn't shown you they will air throw you like this after low to the ground push blocks.
    Even if he did air throw you here, you would have taken a scaled 50% combo that builds you a lot of meter for not a lot of damage and forced a reset if he didn't want to donate the meter to you.

    --2:49--

    Okay this part is really important.
    The entire round while I'm watching your health get dwindled down by Parasoul, the thing I am focusing the most on is "When are you getting two meters so you can get Cerebella out and alive safely."

    If you have two meters for a safe DHC, even if you are fullscreen.
    Do it immediately when it is safe.

    Every second you spend playing that character you are giving your opponent more chances to kill you.
    You are very lucky that you weren't hit by a fireball because you chose to approach her while you have 1px of health.

    If you just waited for Parasoul to jump, or hit any button / performed any move, you could have immediately done 360/Dynamo > Fireball right away.
    (That's only punishable at that distance by a super jump done on reaction, hence why you wait for her to do something.)

    The most important part of playing a team is obviously the assist, but also the ability to heal and play your team backwards and give the OTHER character the point characters assist and DHC's as well.
    But all of that is lost if you lose a character.

    Basically as soon as you regain control of your character like that you should be looking for the safest and fastest method of saving Cerebella.
    I mean, not that getting within touch range and doing Dynamo is bad but I think it was a little bit risky.

    --2:57--

    Walk forward after BFF :P
    You have more time than you think.
    Also the optimal conversion from that is 2MP 5HP for the most damage.

    --3:08--

    So if you watch Sage and Sonic play Fukua you will notice they would never ever do something like this.
    If you're ever going to not kill a character and you need a reset to kill, your best bet is M Shadow.
    When you put ESPECIALLY Parasoul in the air like that, she has no double jump or air dash to get out after recovering, and he air jabs are rather slow.
    She also is a fast faller so she has a hard time even getting an air jab out in time since she's almost touching you.

    She is completely helpless falling down on to you and you have the option for cross unders, fake cross unders, jabs, tick throws on landing, assist shenanigans, etc.

    But you went with L Drill, and put Parasoul on the floor in front of you where she has access to Pillar, Assists, Bikes, Tag, Throw, etc...
    You also went for L Shadow after which only really works if they upback, but even then it's very reactable and they can block in time, or just neutral jump and counter hit you like shown.

    So look into learning M Shadow vortex if you want to play Fukua.
    It's really important for her game, and you can basically see what it's all about by watching any of SonicFox or Sage's matches.

    --3:17--

    Air Fireball > M Shadow > Air Fireball > M Shadow is really good vs Parasoul, so that was a good pick up.
    Also note that after you land M Shadow, you can jump and go straight into jHK instead of jLP jHK which scales your combo more.

    --3:22--

    Double jabs when you are on the floor and the camera is panning to see the character above you.

    This is mainly just nerves but try extra hard to keep track of your opponents movement because it will stop you from doing this like this.
    This jHP counter hit definitely did not need to happen.

    --3:26--
    Just so you know jLP jMP[2] jHP[3] is Doubles set up vs light characters for a frame trap left/right with sLP.
    (jLP jMK[1] jHP[3] is her set up vs Heavy and Medium characters.)
    You should never mash jab in a sitaution like this unless you are like 6 layers deep inside your opponents head and expect them to do something insanely wack.

    You will always just get counter hit by 5LP because this reset is so tight that if you do it as fast as possible it will actually combo.

    --3:45--
    Again, your next Bella combo is dropped immediately because I assume you wanted sHP runstop combos.
    You should be really doing something simpler for a tournament match unless you're very confident in your ability to do that stuff while under severe pressure.
    It also just lost you the round.


    Vs Bando (open)

    Game 1 (open)

    This entire set you are not punishing his assists calls.
    You're solo and you hit like a truck.
    When you counter hit assists you do x1.5 damage on top of the bonus damage that assists take. (I forget the other ratio)

    Consider Bando actually just 'throwing' his assist at you for you to punch in the face with LNL H or Titan Knuckle.
    You could even retract Titan Knuckle right away into reflector to reflect an air fireball.

    The important part about hitting assists with Titan Knuckle is not only the damage but the sliding knock-down you get from it.
    It locks out assists for the sliding duration, the knock-down duration, and the wake up animation duration on top of the 'assist hit' lock out duration + leaving duration.
    That's a lot of time the opponent can't use their assist, and it's hurt and can't heal until after lock out period ends.

    He throws it at you so much.

    Also the very first reflect you do after 12 Skullseconds of zoning that you get, gets you a happy birthday.
    So maybe you should focus on getting those reflects more than just jumping over fireballs taking chip damage.
    There is a lot of dancing around fullscreen you do in this set instead of getting reflects.

    Almost every reflect you do get this set vs Bando with the exception of one (which was simply avoided) gives you a reward like a combo or a happy birthday!

    --1:17--

    Starting from the first time you get hit low, you are only upbacking.
    You get hit by a dropped combo beacuse you are defaulting to upback.
    You get hit by a fireball and upback, and jump away and land on L Shadow because you continue to only upback.
    After upbacking and landing + blocking another L Fireball you do the exact same upback but this time he does cHP so you get out.

    There's a big pattern there vs Fukua and I'm not sure where your fear of blocking low comes from.
    If she does command grab you she has to spend a bar to confirm from it and this guy has not gone for a throw once at this point in the set, and you reacted very quickly to his first overhead shadow.
    Trust your reaction times and trust in your reads when you're going to be thrown.

    Your first default option should be blocking low, and you should be trying to react or predict overheads and command grabs.

    --1:26--

    I'm not very fond of this block something, pushblock, then glide jHP thing that you've done a few times now.
    I think that if someone hits you and makes you pushblock, you're putting yourself in an ice cube for 25frames minimum (Pushblock time + Hitstop) so they can position themselves to be in a good spot to just hit you trying that anyway unless they run up and poke you low.

    However if they do run up low, then you would have glided over them and jHP would probably whiff because you're not doing it instantly?
    Just my 2C, I'm not a Cerebella player so maybe this glide stuff works for you at other times.


    --1:33--

    Again, you pushblock high, and then you try and upback again.
    You're going to be getting put into pre-block as soon as pushblock ends because of these strings and there's no way to upback.

    Since you pushblocked high you should really be looking for the absolute guard on the next string.
    (If you don't know what Absolute Guard is, ask me!)

    Again, this player hasn't thrown you once, and Fukua's only overhead is very very slow.
    You get opened up by the low, again, and then he drops his combo by accident, again, in to L Shadow, which hits you low, again, because you are still upbacking.

    --1:39--

    At this range I think a simple cLK would have been your best option.
    Hits the assist, makes it leave and lock out, and you don't get hit by a cHP or fireball from Fukua while you do it.

    --1:49--

    Good low reset, now you can kill Fukua since you are a solo and you will have 3 bars.
    Fukua is giving you a lot of trouble, and she has brought you down to one third of your life before you've gotten a solid hit on her.

    Instead you reset!

    It's okay to not look at your meter and know when you can kill.
    I do it sometimes too, but that would have been a very good kill.
    You also could have done a snap back to heal and bounced Fukua back towards you and continued the combo and ended in something else.

    Looking for heals when you have lots of red health is a part of playing Solo now.

    --1:57--

    Okay that timing is wack but I think this is just lack of practice so you're not 100% on the timing.
    Don't worry about it.

    You get the hit but it's another dropped run stop combo with two american resets.
    You should be picking up on your inability to complete those run stop combos and switch to something else when you're having a hard time on the first strings.

    --2:04--

    You have Ben Birdland in the corner and now you have FOUR meter and can easily kill him, and you chose to burst bait.
    You have to spend the meter to kill people

    --2:09--

    There's some pretty big gaps here in this cathead pressure that I think you could have reflected.
    If you weren't confident in your reflects and DP's under pressure, that's fine.
    But I think it would have hit him for sure so it might be worth practicing and looking into in training mode.

    At the end here he hits you and hits you again with the fast reset.
    That's fine and not really anything to do with you as a player.
    Just know that if most doubles call assists in combos it's usually to set up flesh step, not extend the combo in a certain way.

    Game 2 (open)


    --3:05--

    You have to try and react to assist calls that are invincible coming in on the stage during your pressure strings and jump ins.
    Try watching for movement at the edges of the screen when you're next to your oppponent.
    You can also assume that people, especially Bando so far, will be downbacking until the assist starts up.
    The assist entering the stage is basically the green light for a tick throw or 360.

    --3:10--

    Fukuas confirm from L Shadow on hit is jHK.
    This Fukua doesn't bother confirming L Shadows at any time she just does the jHK anyway.

    2LK is not a good button to hit after this because it's just going to get counter hit by the follow up jHK.

    --3:11--

    I think this is the first grab he's done!
    Now you can factor those grabs into your play.

    He did it after L Air Fireball so that's something to remember for next time.
    Now that he's seen his one grab work and remembered that grabs exist, it makes a bit more sense to potentially upback in some situations.
    Since it was a normal throw, you can probably still just focus on trying to tech his grabs and it should still be safe to downback during pressure and react to H Shadow.

    This is the kind of information you need to gather during that short exchange.

    --3:16--

    These shadows are slow and if you wait for them to be used you can just super jump out of the corner or reflect them.
    This Fukua has shown you how much he likes using Shadows as pokes, so you shouldn't be getting bullied by Shadows because you can turn those into projectile combos with reflects.

    --3:19--

    Good on the land cancel but 2LK was the move that needed to be used there at that range.

    --3:24--

    That MGR input mistake really sucks, but you had the read so your heart was in the right place.

    Zoning...
    Zoning...
    Zoning...

    --3:45--

    Still being bullied by telegraphed slow zoning with an easy pattern for way to long before you reflected it.
    Also again he was throwing his assists at you like they are fireballs.
    You gotta punch em in the face with Titan Knuckle.

    Every single shadow reflect has gotten you a combo.
    You should practice this MU more with someone to get more used to reflecting Shadows on reaction.


    --3:58--

    Not sure what the sHP is supposed to do but maybe it was a mistake.
    It would make sense if you wanted him to land cancel and then do MGR, but...

    --4:03--

    You'll notice that as soon as the scramble starts you start to upback again right away.
    You really really like to upback.
    If I were to play you, I would be air throwing you as 90% of my hits probably.

    That's also why he jumps towards you with a multi-hitting normal that's so unsafe.
    He doesn't think he's going to whiff because he subconsciously is picking up on where you're going to move next since you've chosen to upback so much.

    Don't get me wrong, upbacking puts you in a good position but only if you can get off the ground.
    If you're getting off the ground and your opponent is chasing you with a jump forward, you have to be ready for air throws and also the 'chasing pressure.'

    --4:15--

    Two risks with H LNL vs Shadows that would have counter-hit you and ended the round if they were L Shadows!
    Again, reflector should be making her scared to throw shadows out at that range.

    --4:18--

    You get put into blockstun for a split second, and instantly upback and get hit low.
    If you were blocking low or pushblocked that 2LK you would have been fine.

    You at least reacted to getting hit low and though about blocking low.
    The one time it was not a good idea because this is the first tick throw I've seen.

    So don't feel bad about getting thrown once, and her getting a 50% scaled combo, even though she can end the round and eliminate you from the tournament right here.

    Fukua doesn't do BFF > Level 3 after the throw!
    Yay!

    You get to keep playing.

    --4:21--

    You're armoring Shadows which doesn't get you much since you're doing it so late.
    Again you could be reflecting them at the range that you're always standing in.

    I know you were trying to do the Zid, but I think if you wanted to do the Zid you should have waited for a better time.
    You should wait for a time where you are at a very safe distance waiting for him to randomly call his assist so that you can really focus on reacting to it.

    (He does randomly call his assist out so you can smack it which I talked about before.)

    --4:26--

    Aww you had so much time to reflect that fireball and then kill the assist but that's sort of an afterthought spectator thing.

    Air throw, GG.


    Main points!

    - Always always always upbacking in almost every situation.
    Like I said earlier, upbacking is a good tool because it puts you into the air into a state where you can land cancel moves, and can't be hit high or low.
    It's also hard to cross up a jumping opponent and do a lot of other mix up.
    However, it's not good if you can't actually get off the floor.
    If you're opponent is getting that many pick ups off upbacks you really have to notice those !? signs and start to block low and wait for opportunities to jump.

    - Lots and lots of hits were lost to dropped fancy run-stop combos.
    If you were playing against crazy trigger happy Big Band you would be flying across the stage all the time.

    - I feel like most of the time you were forgetting about all the tools you have access to.
    You have half screen punch, armor for baiting things, a reflector to deal with obvious zoning...
    A lot of these tools were flat out ignored and sparsely used.

    - A lot of your up close game could be refined if you were reacting to assists entering the screen when they approach from the side of the stage.
    Those should be used as queues to tell you what your opponent is thinking.
    You just have to be using your head and collecting data on what they do when they call assists.
    This also applies to dealing with opponents from a far.
    Many people will have patterns they do when they mean to be unpredictable, such as using a certain strength of a projectile special when an assist is called.
    Those kind of things you have to pick up on when you play Cerebella and don't have an assist to boss people around.

    ...

    I also felt like even though you were playing as a Solo you never took any risks.
    You were playing so patiently, afraid to do things.

    It's easy to chip away at a solo health bar if they're not being active in the neutral game or doing anything to stop their opponent from controlling the match.
    You have to spook them with things so that you can set the pace of the match.

    You just never really scared them or hit the opponent, and when you did hit them, everything you did was very tame and mild IF you didn't drop the combo.
    This extremely safe style of play is very similar to how I like to play, but the difference is I play a mid ranged spacing footsie character with fireballs and assists to built around that.

    Even though your Fukua is still very new and silly, you're a lot more active with her.
    Part of that comes from her having a lot of good tools to use at different ranges, but part of that also just comes from her suiting the way you were trying to play Cerebella at those ranges.

    You're playing a grappler with an oversized tool box and I mainly see cLK, cMK, jHK, jMP and barely anything else.
    Actually come to think of it I don't think you landed a single command grab :S

    ...

    If you're going to stick with Solo, you're going to have to get way more comfortable with your neutral.
    It feels too stiff to look at, and you're not sure what you should be doing.

    This just comes with experience, so take all the advice I've given you and keep practicing and grinding out matches.

    If you have any other questions just ask!
     
    Pickles and Zidiane like this.
  15. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I've learned a lot from this one tournament. Thanks again @Skarmand. I'm waiting on just one other person I've asked for help on my play, then I'm going to try and make a more condensed list of things I need to work on for easier reference. I also think I'm already seeing improvements in my play in the past few days, so that's a good sign.

    Also, here's a set I played with @Muro.
     
  16. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

    Location:
    West Canada
    Steam:
    Skarmand
    PSN:
    Skarmand
    Robo Fortune
    Double
    Posting this here for others and yourself, for later.

     
    Sparties and Zidiane like this.
  17. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    tbh, I'm watching the set with Kenin and thinking about what I would say in a match analysis video, and then I'm comparing that with what Liam already wrote, and like... I don't think I have a ton to add in addition to what's been covered. Actually Liam wrote some really smart shit I hadn't considered that I'm gonna start applying to my own game. I guess I would add that in game 1 against Kenin you got knocked down in the corner and teched backwards. You should probably tech forwards so that you wouldn't be in the corner anymore. That's all I got lol

    ...well, I guess more generally speaking, both these sets look very different than when you play me or another GU regular. I think the difference is that like, you play me a lot and you're used to my characters and tendencies and stuff, and when we play I usually see a ton of really confident reads that are frequently correct. I don't really see that in these sets. Rewatching these sets it feels like you're not really confident about what to do so you go for a ton of safe stuff, which I don't think suits you. Honestly I think what may help most is just play the game a ton more, play against as many people and as many characters and playstyles as you can. I mean that's tough on console cause it's a ghost town but I think if you can somehow do that it would help a lot.
     
  18. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Okay. Thanks again, everyone. Here's a condensed list of the things everyone told me, mainly for my reference but anyone can read it. I need to work on all of this.

    Me Specifics:
    - try to make hard read less often.
    - tech forward more often, especially when knocked down in the corner and when against zoning.
    - pay attention to when I'm not being consistent. Dial my combos back to basic bnb's if I can't land my shit.
    - focus assists more often. Tag them with launcher/Titan Knuckle/something when I can. Eating a fireball is worth, especially solo.
    - watch the point while hitting assists. React accordingly.
    - try blocking crossunder low by default on characters that like to do it.
    - avoid upbacking vs jumpins as often.
    - try landcancelling instead of pushblocking when possible. pushblock: when blocking assist anywhere, or point on the ground. Landcancel: when blocking point in air.
    - block low by default, stop trying to jump out of resets. Trust myself to block overheads on reaction.
    - remember opponent's options: Assist, reversal, reset potential.
    - when in the corner: when both the assist and the point is doing something, that's my opprotunity to superjump out.
    - throw is the weaker option as far as resets go. It's okay to get hit by a grab reset sometimes if it means more consistently defending the hit resets.
    - get better at reacting to assist calls while I'm hitting buttons. Don't keep hitting buttons, or instead cancel a blockstring into a command grab if it's too late to not hit buttons.

    Data gathering:
    - pay attention to what people do before a grab. If there's a specific setup, don't let it work twice.
    - watch people's habits when calling assists. If they downback, grab them.
    - try not to read too far into resets too early. People go for the standard stuff early to test the waters.- don't commit to defending against resets that the opponent hasn't shown me. Don't try to tech or jump out of grabs when they haven't grabbed me yet, and don't keep holding down back expecting them to stop throwing.
    - try harder to switch my blocking. Even if I can't see it coming, if they're doing the same reset over and over, block that way.

    Matchup Specifics:
    - Double: Try seeing how pushblocking the last hit of j.hp works.
    - Double: If grounded double calls assist, block the other way. She's probably going to flash step.
    - Double: Max range c.hp, luger is not a blockstring. Deflect if the opponent is trying it.
    - Double: Try hitting j.hp with Titan Knuckle.
    - Double (l bomber): at roundstart, be careful of immediate assist calls.
    - Fukua: Deflect more obvious shadows.
    - Fukua: pokes will get beat by j.hk.
    - Fukua: Be careful armoring against her when she could call l shadow.
    - Parasoul: for crossunders, the only button she can hit to knock you out of hitting a button is s.lp. Double jump out, and if she isn't hitting that button then next time hit buttons on the way down.
    - Parasoul: she wants to Pillar, Bikes, DHC. When opportunities for her to do so arise, especially during blockstrings/after pushblock/on reset/on wakeup, try reading it and going for lnl into super.
    - Parasoul: j.hp range is essentially doubled when hitting a tear. Stay away from them, or at least don't do anything risky when near them.

    Fukua (assist call) specifics:
    - keep in mind: call this assist to cover me while I'm going in. Don't call it just to call it.
    - don't call Fukua within c.hk range. Titan Knuckle range is better.
    - move in as soon as assist is called, don't wait for shadow. I ca do whatever I want as long as I'm not grabbed while it's out.
    - when assist is down, wait for it to come back up before moving in.
    - when bella is in trouble, dynamo into fireball at the first opprotunity, even fullscreen.
    - be mindful of the opponent's assist before calling. Don't call randomly when they have Brass Knuckles, H Bomber, Theonite Beam, etc.

    Bella Specifics:
    - check which character's pokes will not get hit by Devil Horns. Most of them I think, but should make certain so I'm confident what's going to happen when I whiff it.
    - if I'm going to gamble on Devil Horns, cancel into US instantly. If Horns hits, still get the pick up. Be careful against airdashers like Filia.
    - mashing Horns -> US (vs ground pressure) or Dynamo (vs air pressure) as a solo is a good option to show the opponent I'm not afraid to do it. It'll slow their pressure.
    - be mindful of whether or not the opponent is immediately resetting me in the air to shut down my reversals.
    - try not to hard read deflect as often. Does not scare the opponent, leaves me open.
    - be ready to command grab, dynamo, or deflect what the point is doing after hitting the assist.
    - don't be afraid to approach on the ground. Try running and simply dashing more often.
    - command grab in neutral more. Try to grab every time they're in range to make them afraid to be on the ground. Force them to make more predictable choices.
    - be more aggressive when solo. Letting Bella backed by Fukua neutral influence solo Bella neutral is a mistake.
    - remember my other options. Poke with Titan Knuckle, lnl, and c.hk, as well as use Kanchou and s.hk overhead more often. Keep these options in my opponents mind so they're less focused on other things I'm doing.
    - stop gliding.
    - don't always do the same block string. Try to c.lk, c.mp, runstop or c.lk, c.mp, h lnl more often, and throw in some c.lk, c.lk rather than defaulting to c.lk, c.mp, c.hk every time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  19. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I've been trying to put in work on all of my problems. I'm noticing some improvement. Not much, but enough to know I'm adapting.

    One major problem I noticed is that I have a hard time maintaining multiple playstyles. Keeping my SoloBella playstyle separate from my Bella/Fukua or my Eliza/Bella or whatever else is hard. The more characters I try to pick up with her, the more apparent it becomes. Even if I only work on them one at a time, it is still affecting me. Also, sometimes I play duo and forget I have a second character behind Bella (which was normal before), and sometimes I play solo and forget I don't have an assist/dhc (which is new; this happened earlier yesterday). It's really annoying.

    As for things I've noticed improvement on... there's bee varying success. Green means noticeable improvement, Yellow means inconsistent or low improvement, and Red means no improvement despite actively keeping in mind this problem. Anything not color coded are things I haven't really gotten a chance to try to improve on yet.

    - try to make hard read less often.
    - focus assists more often. Tag them with launcher/Titan Knuckle/something when I can. Eating a fireball is worth, especially solo.
    - watch the point while hitting assists. React accordingly.

    - try blocking crossunder low by default on characters that like to do it.
    - avoid upbacking vs jumpins as often.
    - try landcancelling instead of pushblocking when possible. pushblock: when blocking assist anywhere, or point on the ground. Landcancel: when blocking point in air.

    - block low by default, stop trying to jump out of resets. Trust myself to block overheads on reaction.
    - remember opponent's options: Assist, reversal, reset potential.
    - throw is the weaker option as far as resets go. It's okay to get hit by a grab reset sometimes if it means more consistently defending the hit resets.
    - watch people's habits when calling assists. If they downback, grab them.


    Fukua (assist call) specifics:
    - keep in mind: call this assist to cover me while I'm going in. Don't call it just to call it.
    - don't call Fukua within c.hk range. Titan Knuckle range is better.

    - move in as soon as assist is called, don't wait for shadow. I ca do whatever I want as long as I'm not grabbed while it's out.
    - when assist is down, wait for it to come back up before moving in.
    - when bella is in trouble, dynamo into fireball at the first opprotunity, even fullscreen.
    - be mindful of the opponent's assist before calling. Don't call randomly when they have Brass Knuckles, H Bomber, Theonite Beam, etc.

    Bella Specifics:
    - if I'm going to gamble on Devil Horns, cancel into US instantly. If Horns hits, still get the pick up. Be careful against airdashers like Filia.
    - try not to hard read deflect as often. Does not scare the opponent, leaves me open.
    - be ready to command grab, dynamo, or deflect what the point is doing after hitting the assist.

    - don't be afraid to approach on the ground. Try running and simply dashing more often.
    - command grab in neutral more. Try to grab every time they're in range to make them afraid to be on the ground. Force them to make more predictable choices.
    - be more aggressive when solo. Letting Bella backed by Fukua neutral influence solo Bella neutral is a mistake.
    - remember my other options. Poke with Titan Knuckle, lnl, and c.hk, as well as use Kanchou and s.hk overhead more often. Keep these options in my opponents mind so they're less focused on other things I'm doing.

    - stop gliding.
    - don't always do the same block string. Try to c.lk, c.mp, runstop or c.lk, c.mp, h lnl more often, and throw in some c.lk, c.lk rather than defaulting to c.lk, c.mp, c.hk every time.
     
    Liam likes this.
  20. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    If you want a bit more advice - this thing from the first post still applies. :^) There was SOMETHING you did enough when we played that I said "it's obvious you learned to play SG before SDE".
     
  21. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Double: Try hitting j.hp with Titan Knuckle.

    have you tried hitting j.hp with dynamo instead?
     
  22. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    What was it I did?

    Also, should probably go through the couple earlier posts to remember what I was thinking back then. Some if it must still apply. I definitely deleted the TOD post like a week ago, though, since that was actually outdated. It had, like, measurements of the stage and where exactly on the stage I could be and be confident that landing my combo would end with a dead character. And also the post talking about beating reversal options with MGR's invincibility. That's gone.
    I always get hit out of doing the input for that. But hitting that move with Titan Knuckle is more for Double's that try and stay away from me while throwing out j.hp, either just neutral jumping or jumping away from me.
     
  23. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Just checked this out.
    Painwheel, Big Band, Peacock, and Beowulf's c.lk's are hittable by Devil Horns, though they need to be practically ontop of you to get hit. Big Band's other poke, s.lk, will completely dodge it. Still overall safer, even on these guys, to just cancel into US.

    It's pretty inconsistent. Sometimes it'll beat j.hp, sometimes' it'll trade, sometimes it'll lose. It's because of the way her active frames on j.hp work, with little gaps in when it's active.

    Also, starting to try and learn Beo and Big Band.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  24. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Yo get gud at the input.
     
  25. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Dude that's mad work
     
    Zidiane likes this.
  26. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    It's more my reactions than anything. But yeah.
     
  27. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Oh. Well its pretty reactable if you're trying to punish j.hp. For example

    This was IIRC button dash -> down back -> reaction dynamo. If you see double jump and hear an attack that's usually a sign that its time to dynamo.

    Button Dash -> block is very good with bella I feel... it lets you block and super things on reaction.
     
    Pickles, mcpeanuts and Zidiane like this.
  28. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I'll try that. I do tend to have trouble rapidly switching which direction I'm holding (I actually hold down back for most of my combo even when I'm not charging anything to help me not get messed up), so going from back to neutral macro to downback to qcf might take some getting used to. I'll definitely try it, cause another approach is something I do desperately need to iron out.
     
  29. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    played a FT10 with @WingZero. A lot of REALLY close matches here. I don't think I've ever had the timer get so close to running out so many times in a set. This set was a lot of fun.

     
  30. Kai

    Kai Go Home And Be A Family Man! Beowulf

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Steam:
    Kai
    PSN:
    Night_Phyre
    Parasoul
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    I had some moments, here, but really, with my knowing less than half of what Zid knows about Cerebella, he's almost always able to stuff whatever basic stuff I do with her. The whole tone of the set can be summed up by the weird assist call + snap I do in round 2 or 3. Like, I have zero clue what happened. I think I wanted a super? No idea.

     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
    Zidiane likes this.
  31. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I need to go through both of those sets more in-depth.

    One important thing o remember happening vs Kia that round was I felt like I was playing Bella like I had an assist. I noticed after like 3 games or so. I don't know what part of my play/mindset really changed, but the first game I win w as after I realized this and tried to change. I can't watch it to get a better idea atm, but I think this could be important for me figuring out how to actively play multiple styles, and do that thing where I'm scary on command. This could also be the key to playing confidently at tournaments, like @mcpeanuts said, and going on tilt less often.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
  32. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    This is still happening lol
     
    Zidiane likes this.
  33. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    lmao
     
  34. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    Consolodated the couple of earlier posts with relevant information for easier access.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  35. Kai

    Kai Go Home And Be A Family Man! Beowulf

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Steam:
    Kai
    PSN:
    Night_Phyre
    Parasoul
    Cerebella
    Big Band
     
    Zidiane and Liam like this.
  36. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    I feel like I'm falling off a bit in my determination. I don't know. It's hard to improve. For like two weeks I was serious about improving and kept things in mind, but when I try to play now I just go back to old patterns and do whatever. I'm going to keep trying, though. I still want to improve.
     
  37. Sparties

    Sparties SUPERSOAKER

    preach ;_;7
    do you know why you might be feeling this way?
     
  38. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    @Zidiane

    One thing that would prolly benefit you alot is prolly playing vs. someone while talking with them or having voice on for better phrasing.

    This Honestly helps me out from time to time since i get less frustrated and i can ask questions about certain things before hitting play again. This could also give you In real time advice and what not and hopefully motivate you.
     
  39. Zidiane

    Zidiane Doing my best

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Steam:
    Zidiane
    PSN:
    zidiane5
    XBL:
    Zidiane
    Cerebella
    The times I'm on, not many other people really are, and the people I run into on quick match are not at the level I need them to be at to learn. Doing that a few times, I just... lose focus I guess? That on top of just me generally not being a very focused person, and I tend to lose sight of what I'm doing quicker than I'd like.
    I don't know... all the times I ever play offline, I NEVER ask for advice or whatever. I'm... not super talkative to begin with, and I don't really like talking over skype or anything. It's weird. I can try it sometime, but I don't know if it'll help me.
     
  40. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Zid are you still stuck on console? If you are you should probably be playing @Adeveis @ShakyFingers and @PME as much as possible since they're the best players on console atm (if there's someone obvious I'm missing there don't shoot me, I'm kind of out of the loop as far as console players go). If you're on PC hit me up, I'm not a fan of sets but I'd be willing to bite the bullet on that to get you back up to full power. I know you don't talk a lot but I could give you all sorts of unsolicited advice.
     
    PME and Zidiane like this.

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