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Me bitching and moaning mostly

Spencer

Spencer

Painwheel
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Painwheel Squigly
Or maybe a training diary? Anyways:

This is all pertaining to PW:
Why am I so damn inconsistent. I'll do well one day, really feeling like I'm getting good at this game. Next day, I'm jumping in a corner trying desperately to fly. It's a fireball motion for fuck's sake... yet, here I am jumping like an asshole.

I have been spending more time in lab. There are just somethings that I don't think you can learn efficiently running through match after match. Of course, I have a hard time translating lab to matches having to fight against habit.

j.lp > j.lk > s.hk ... fuck that link. Is it necessary? For some reason I'm determined to keep it in my combo.

I'm thinking about picking up a second. Probably Squigs. She'll at least be fun, but we all know PW/Squigs is going to be a disaster. If I pick up a serious team, I'm thinking Parasoul though I'm new enough to FG that charge characters are daunting for me.

Been trying to do less forum bitching (though admittedly most of my opinions haven't changed too dramatically. I still think solo PW is asking for a headache.) and "git gud".

Working with Elda and Elky has been improving my blocking dramatically.

Anyway, finals week isn't over yet, so I'm going to take a break and recharge. I think that is mostly responsible for the absurd number of dropped combos lately.
 
Spencer said:
j.lp > j.lk > s.hk ... fuck that link. Is it necessary? For some reason I'm determined to keep it in my combo.

If I need to launch after a few flight chains, I generally use (3)j.LP sMP or jLP jLK sHK but you could just as easily use jLP jLK sMP. Another consideration for ease of execution is L-Nail x Fly jMK sMP or L-Nail sMP.

jLP sHK is the one to avoid. I've put enough work into it to know it's just stupid to rely on it for a tournament setting.
 
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Hilary said:
If I need to launch after a few flight chains, I generally use (3)j.LP sMP or jLP jLK sHK but you could just as easily use jLP jLK sMP. Another consideration for ease of execution is L-Nail x Fly jMK sMP or L-Nail sMP.

jLP sHK is the one to avoid. I've put enough work into it to know it's just stupid to rely on it for a tournament setting.

I can see that. j.lp > j.lk > s.hk is already unreliable enough. I seem to drop it right when I need it.
 
Spencer said:
I can see that. j.lp > j.lk > s.hk is already unreliable enough. I seem to drop it right when I need it.

jLP jLK sHK isn't that bad at all.

you can probably grind it out in the training room and it'll be perfectly reliable.
 
Spencer said:
I'm thinking about picking up a second. Probably Squigs. She'll at least be fun, but we all know PW/Squigs is going to be a disaster. If I pick up a serious team, I'm thinking Parasoul though I'm new enough to FG that charge characters are daunting for me.
If you want Painwheel/Squigly to not be a disaster, then try to make them viable as possible. More specifically, learn about Squigly on her own to learn how to make your team work well, then pair the two up, but I'm definitely not against Parasoul for an assist, and to use her charging application, all you have to do is hold back during a combo, then press P while holding forward at the same time for a few frames, then if you can, continue the combo.
 
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Spencer said:
I'm thinking about picking up a second. Probably Squigs. She'll at least be fun, but we all know PW/Squigs is going to be a disaster. If I pick up a serious team, I'm thinking Parasoul though I'm new enough to FG that charge characters are daunting for me.

 
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Spencer said:
I'm thinking about picking up PW/Squigs

3664528-5059441657-78793.gif
 
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Believe in yourself and do the best you can with these two. I swear to GOD you can find a great setup! Nothing's impossible, Solococks, Solowheels, Solo Vals, Parasoul vs Peacock and Double/BB/whatever, they have been done, and you can do this too!
 
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I don't disagree. That said, I live in a small town in a small state not located all that close to much, so I've almost zero tourney ambitions for the time being. Because of that, I get to pick mostly for fun these days.

If I play seriously, I'll definitely end up running PW/Parasoul/3rd, but for the time being...

Here's hoping Eliza has a DP so she can complement PW.
 
I seem to have found the Solowheels Anonymous thread...

Hello, I'm Elky. *Hi, Elky* And it's been 1 day since my last Solowheel.

This may seem daunting, but full immersion may be the best solution. Trust me, if you've been running a lone PW, you are no stranger to the deep end.

If Parasoul on your team is the goal, don't tap dance around it. Just goes balls deep right now. Solo Parasoul for a few days. Yes, solo. She may be the most viable solo in the cast, and all those charge inputs may be a welcome reprieve from those quarter circle woes. She's kinda fun to play, you'll fall in love with having a reversal option, and her mixup game will satisfy those grimey PW reset withdrawls.

I'm serious about the solo thing. I find that I keep Bella on the back end without really learning her, just utilizing her assists and DHCs. "I swear, baby, you're more than just copters and rocks to me! I'll change!"

Squigly is fun. Squigly is usable. But her and PDubs are oil and water.
 
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ElkyDori said:
She may be the most viable solo in the cast
Nnnnnnnnope

If you pick up Squigs -which is perfectly fine- I'd advise to also pick up a 3rd. Like BBand with either Beat Extend or Brass, or Double, or Bella, or whatever. All of those are gonna form decent enough teams.
If it's a Duo and Squigly is set then I'd swap the order to Squigly/PW, but it's still.. mmmmmeh.
 
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How do we think PW/Squigs/Para would do?

Squigs can provide a lock down and Para the every so important DP.

Still a disaster?
 
I hate Parasoul anywhere but point if it's not for Tearshot, but that team would probably work somewhat. How 'bout Fukua?

E: And yeah this would probably fit better into the Training Diary subforum I think.
 
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I got bodied by her pretty badly in the one real match up I've had vs her. I've definitely considered her, but I know very little about her.
 
Do you have any matches streamed on Twitch or Youtube?
 
IsaVulpes said:
Nnnnnnnnope
Assuming you don't drop the majority of your combos.

IsaVulpes said:
I'd advise to also pick up a 3rd.
There's jumping into the deep end and then there's jumping off a cliff.

Going from solo straight to trio is a one-way ticket to rage and frustration. The dramatic shift in health/damage is its own learning curve apart from just learning the new characters. Add one character at a time, add each for a reason, and you'll save yourself from bursting too many blood vessels.

Spencer said:
I got bodied by her pretty badly in the one real match up I've had vs her. I've definitely considered her, but I know very little about her.
She's as close to a hard counter to PW as it gets. Meaning that she has the tools that PW lacks and complements her on a team. The Peacock team matchups will still be trying, though. IsaVulpes does bring up a good point with BB. I see potential with BigWheel. She's got the mixup, while he's got the power and reach. PW's supers are nothing to write home about, but he's a meter machine. He also has great options to cover her approach with Brass and Giant Step. Also, more delicious armor.
 
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Spencer said:
j.lp > j.lk > s.hk ... fuck that link.

@Spencer
Indeed. There is no literal reason to do that link for a combo in my opinion. It only adds 105 damage opposed to using s.mp which is TONS easier to do. That said if you MUST use it the secret is to delay the j.lk after the j.lp so that PW is much lower to the ground making her recovery alot shorter and the link (much?) easier.

I'm assuming the combo you are doing midscreen goes something like this.

c.lk,c.mk,s.hp, L Buer
fly 6 j.lk, c.lk,c.mk,s.hp, L Buer
fly 9 j.lp,j.lk,s.hk
j.mp,j.hp fly 9 j.mk, j.hp, Thresher

If so you are getting 6502 damage. Replacing the s.hk with s.mp as the launcher nets you 6397 damage. In my opinion it's best to go with what's easier to execute especially if we are only talking a few hundred (100-300) points of damage. Dropping a combo and getting smacked with a reversal will always put you in a bad mood and possibly affect the rest of the match.

Also I feel that PWs launcher combos aren't worth doing UNLESS you are going for some sort of reset. Her grounded combos do more damage and are ton easier to do consistently IMO. Here is my midscreen BNB solo PW combo for comparison. Works on the entire cast aside of PW and Bella thanks to how short they are.

c.lk,c.mk,s.hp, L Buer
fly 6 j.lk, c.lk,c.mk,s.hp, L Buer
fly 3 j.lp, c.mp, s.hp, L Nails
9 Jump, j.mp 2 hits, j.hp 4 hits / *on PW/Bella* use fly 9 j.mk instead
s.lp, s.lk, c.mk, s.hp, L Buer, Deathcrawl

This gets you 7389 (7152 on PW/Bella) damage! Almost *900 more damage than her usual BNB I see people using. Not to mention the RESET OPTIONS... I seriously need to put a PW video together. After UFGTX perhaps lmao (need to keep some stuff secret until then XD).

Still! I'm more than happy to help anyone that wants PW advice! Hit me up on steam and we'll go from there.
 
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WrestlerGuile said:
Believe in yourself and do the best you can with these two. I swear to GOD you can find a great setup! Nothing's impossible, Solococks, Solowheels, Solo Vals, Parasoul vs Peacock and Double/BB/whatever, they have been done, and you can do this too!

I like this approach to picking your characters. I've always just played who I like or wanted to play and tried to make it work as best I could opposed to just picking what does. There is a ton of room for experimentation with assist and team orders in SG. It's one of the reasons I like it so much.
 
Do PW/Parasol, learn that then add Squiggly somewhere for a trio.
 
@Elda Taluda

Have you tried painwheel mid super combos? Mine does like 7.5k AT THE RESET POINT, midscreen and is pretty universal.

Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp fly 3 j.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lk buer, fly 3j.lp, j.mk xx mk buer, xx airsuper, fly 7j.mp otg, cr.lk,cr.mk xx lp stinger, st.lp,st.lk,cr.mp,st.hp xx lk buer xx deathcrawl (reset basically anywhere, but a good spot is right after the lp stinger)

The strat does suck up meter, but it also kills characters dead... Can dhc at the first airsuper to get pw out, or dhc after deathcrawl, or do lvl 3 instead of deathcrawl.

@Spencer, this would probably be a good route for you to learn midscreen as well, can dhc to squigly at the air super and get another combo via otg followup from squigs.
 
Elda Taluda said:
I like this approach to picking your characters. I've always just played who I like or wanted to play and tried to make it work as best I could opposed to just picking what does. There is a ton of room for experimentation with assist and team orders in SG. It's one of the reasons I like it so much.
Shoutouts to @WrestlerGuile and @Elda Taluda bringing watering cans to the garden of your imagination.
 
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ElkyDori said:
Assuming you don't drop the majority of your combos.
I don't drop any of my combos, but a char with bad defence, no air options, no use for meter, a load of bad-horrible matchups and no real gameplan against half the cast doesn't exactly qualify as 'top solo'.
Good solo characters are common anchor characters who don't require bordloads of meter (meaning: Double is rather shaky) - Fortune, Filia, Bella, BigBand.

Parasoul is a good solo when playing against solo Filia. And loses against roughly every team, most notably Peacock/Anything and fighting vs assist backed Parasouls.

I have been playing a bunch of Solo Parasoul in Quickmatch lately, and it is most definitely not good. She's hardly good in 1v1, let alone efficient at taking on assist backed anything.

Going from solo straight to trio is a one-way ticket to rage and frustration.
It's not a "pick this up now" but a "In the long run I'd pick this up". If he decides to learn Squigly now, I'd heavily recommend to run solo Squigly for a while anyways (rather than playing his Duo).

She's as close to a hard counter to PW as it gets.
How is Fukua a hard counter to PW at all?.?

PW's supers are nothing to write home about
Death Crawl is a true grounded Reversal (something that you don't have access to meterlessly)
Thresher is a hardly punisheable invincible Air Super
Install is good
?.?

But yeah @Spencer, if you're considering Parasoul, I'd also consider Fukua. And something like Pw/CenterStage/H.Drill sounds *to me* like it covers both v Pea/Para matchups with CStage and Drill for offence (lockdown) + defence (invinc). Also, you'd be using Center Stage assist which instantly makes you 1600% cooler.
 
Dime_x said:
@Elda Taluda

...lk buer, fly 3j.lp, j.mk xx mk buer...

Is this right?? After testing it out of curiosity I can't get it to work on anyone mid screen or in the corner. Assuming there is a typo somewhere.

But to answer your question @Dime_x , Yes I have played around with the idea of using thresher mid combo... and unless I'm going for a kill, I can't see myself using the meter to do so.
Resetting after using a mid combo Thresher seems like a waste of meter to me. While I'm sure that there are applicable times to do so, you won't see me doing it.
I'd rather do a full combo into deathcrawl, let my opponent tech and reset their undizzy meter so I can get another full combo. Not to mention there is no guarantee my after-thresher-reset is going to work...

That said, against Valentine and Filia you can do c.lk,c.mk,c.hp, H buer, thresher, fly 6j.mk, etc... to do a side swap if you want to get your opponent in the corner. I do find this useful despite using a meter.

Mostly though, I'm just saving my meter for DHCs. Can't really recommend people use multiple supers in one combo AS PW unless they know they are getting a kill from it.
 
@Elda Taluda
Shit thats my bad.

Its supposed to read:

Fly 3j.lp,st.mp, j.mk xx mk buer xx airsuper...


Also though its mostly universal, outside the corner the mk buer has to be omitted against parasoul.

And should be for painwheel as well, though it is possible to hit painwheel with the super, its hard and finnicky and not worth it... Just do j.mk xx airsuper midscreen versus them.
 
Spencer said:
How do we think PW/Squigs/Para would do?

Squigs can provide a lock down and Para the every so important DP.

Still a disaster?


This is quite a good team, here's the gist of why:


For painwheel, she really needs no other assist other than pillar, however if you throw in squiglys drag and bite, Center stage, and cr.hp in at opportune moments for the matchup, you have a solution to just about every team formation. Painwheel with pillar is only countered by peacock, painwheel with center stage isnt even countered by peacock.


Squigly is at her best spot (second) here and that is all good. Also squigly gives painwheel a safe dhc from airsuper.

Squigly plays well with dp assists so shes set to go with pillar. Parasoul at anchor is the biggest drawback to this team... Parasoul is actually a good anchor, and has great use for meter and her level 3 can straight kill assists. Meaning that a metered parasoul will get assists called against her less.


It isnt the strongest team out there, but you could do a whole lot worse and i personally feel like if you really like squigly and painwheel, then parasoul or bella at anchor is close to the best team to run.

Dint for the love of god play painwheel/squigly or squigly/painwheel as a duo though... You need another character with a really good assist to fully synergize the team.
 
So I'm going to start to lab a new toon, in the meantime I want to tighten up my PW. I definitely need to make sure my confirms are sitting at close to 100%, which they are decidedly not (especially regarding j.mp).

I'm also looking to get a few rounds in vs people that would be willing to give me some critical advice (Thanks hlvn). So anyone interested, post her or look me up on steam.
 
Spencer said:
So I'm going to start to lab a new toon, in the meantime I want to tighten up my PW. I definitely need to make sure my confirms are sitting at close to 100%, which they are decidedly not (especially regarding j.mp).

I'm also looking to get a few rounds in vs people that would be willing to give me some critical advice (Thanks hlvn). So anyone interested, post her or look me up on steam.

Your confirms seemed great, I would focus on thinking more about how you and your opponent respond to situations. Character/Matchup knowledge is great, but I'm worried you may take a very prescribed approach to the match at hand instead of thinking about how the other player (as a player, not their character) is thinking.

Judging from the matches we played I'd suggest:
  • stray air-to-air hits not automatically forcing a Thresher
  • close proximity situations on whiff not being a throw (namely airthrow > ground throw)
  • not upbacking out of pressure
  • jHP and jMP usage in neutral
That's not to say you can't do those things, quite the opposite, but be really mindful about doing them, and recognize when they'll work and when something else (as well as recognizing/deciding what that something is) is a better option so you can adjust to the other player.
 
@Erreip199

I'm going to pick up Squigs solo. It is an MU I need to learn as PW anyway (she is easily one of my hardest MU). I likely won't ever put her on a team until I learn a third though. My third, I'm leaning Fukua or Parasoul, so still no news on that front.

@Hilary

Yeah, out of that list, the first is an old habit that I'm actively trying to break. Upbacking is the one that is really killing me. I don't even know when or how it started. I've never been an up-back'er... and then I was.
 
So I think the worst of the burnout has passed. My PW feels at least mostly up to par again. I've been working a lot more in training which has been fun.

I decided to pick up Squigs as a second for now, though I've admittedly only played her solo. She's got a long, long way to go.

What I'm hoping to do fairly shortly is get some games recorded and get some criticism on them. Anyone want to help?
 
Spencer said:
So I think the worst of the burnout has passed. My PW feels at least mostly up to par again. I've been working a lot more in training which has been fun.

I decided to pick up Squigs as a second for now, though I've admittedly only played her solo. She's got a long, long way to go.

What I'm hoping to do fairly shortly is get some games recorded and get some criticism on them. Anyone want to help?

I'd go over the matches and give you an overview if you'd like. Or even play if you want me to.
 
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Spencer said:
I decided to pick up Squigs as a second for now, though I've admittedly only played her solo. She's got a long, long way to go.

What I'm hoping to do fairly shortly is get some games recorded and get some criticism on them. Anyone want to help?

I'm sure just by posting videos of yourself playing, a bunch of people will go and watch and give some criticism if they have it. So go ahead dude!

As mentioned before though by Elky Dori, if you're gonna add a character to your team, I'd definitely would recommend just adding the character to your team instead of trying to play them solo first. From personal experience, I like to mess around with Big Band even though I like playing solo, and while I like to think my Big Band isn't the worst, it becomes very clear very fast why I'm not good with teams: I have no team synergy in my play. Things like knowing when to DHC properly, how and when to Alpha Counter, using your assist and consequently protecting them; these are all important and basic skills that will make you play WORSE if you don't do them properly. You'll end up causing harm to both your assist and your point play, and take more damage than before since you are on a team. I know that feeling when your secondary character comes in and you feel like "Oh crap, I'm gonna die because I'm not nearly as good with this character", but it's a necessary part of playing teams so you need to get into it if you are serious about teams. Don't be like me and half ass your team play because you don't commit to a team!

If you want to level up your squiggly, I think what you should do is Play Squiggly Point with an assist. It will help you better get into team play, and having the assist help you in the neutral game or setups or just covering your ass will cover holes in your game while you adjust to her. For Squiggly/Painwheel, I've seen SoupySwan do some cool things using Pinion Dash assist to cover Squiggly, so maybe that's where you'd want to go?
 
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I have no idea why so many people out there think that learning a character solo is of benefit to putting that character on a team... It isnt... it is like 90% useless.

Learning a solo means you arent learning how to use assists with that character which is ATLEAST Half the game play of any character that has an assist available to call.

Even learning a solo to get used to anchor position isnt perfect. Solo starts out with 1 meter. Anchor comes in with 3-5 meters at times. Thats a big difference.


Learn them at the same time imho. Its the best way.
 
So I've added Squigly just yesterday and have been playing as 2s. She's still clearly the weakest link and there is a high chance I'm going to lose once my PW gets deaded, but I'm learning (can reliably do non-charged combos!).

I keep thinking to myself, "why in God's name didn't I do this before". I don't love that I'm not playing solo, but even having one assist (and I think we all agree that PW/Squig isn't optimal) forces my opponent to play a bit more honest. I don't get rushed quite as hard. I don't get punished for my mistakes quite as hard (usually). I don't feel quite as exposed like I'm constantly waiting for my opponent to fuck up so I can score a hit.

Anyway... I'm still looking to upload a few videos for criticism. Blame Wildstar and/or the wife.
 
Spencer said:
How do we think PW/Squigs/Para would do?

Squigs can provide a lock down and Para the every so important DP.

Still a disaster?
It could.. kinda work.

Just understand, making PW and Squigs work on the same team, it is suffering. Pure suffering.

Get used to never having meter and craving it like a starving hyena.

EDIT: Woh this is old, but you are still trying the same thing I see?
 
So I've found that Squigs c.hp compliments PWs hardcore air approach. That it is a lockdown helps too and it allows me to bait and lockout DP assists that are usually the bane of my existence. But yes... meter is a problem. I'd love to see a meter buff to buer (hell... even if it is just mk/hk).
 
Spencer said:
So I've found that Squigs c.hp compliments PWs hardcore air approach. That it is a lockdown helps too and it allows me to bait and lockout DP assists that are usually the bane of my existence. But yes... meter is a problem. I'd love to see a meter buff to buer (hell... even if it is just mk/hk).
Yeah 2HP is such a fantastic assist for PW and is part of the reason I initially tried the team (along with PW and Squigs just being my 2 favourite characters in the game).

You will come up with some serious problems when you try to play against better teams though. PW and Squigs have ok DHC synergy, but you will never have the meter to actually use it unless you are trouncing your opponent... which is hard when you play 2 characters that really struggle on defence and neither of them helps the other with said defence issues.

You can make it work but you are going to need a realy solid 3rd assist, the only things I would say that would be satisfactory would be
Pillar: most balanced overall, slightly favours PW as the star, you are running a point/second/point team so it is very win-moreish and if one character dies you are at a pretty big disadvantage.
HP Brass: runs like a pretty typical Squigly team, just you have much less meter than usual... so as far as Squigly teams go it is pretty bad. Squigly/BB is a really solid duo though so you aren't dead if PW is gone.
Updo/Hornet Bomber/Fiber Upper: I'd say these assists would also work, just your overall team synergy will be a bit whack. These characters either need a lot of meter as well, which doesn't work with your meter devouring PW/Squig shell or just don't allow the initial 2 characters to both run their gameplan as well as they could.
 
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Yeah, I am already feeling that to some extent. I've never felt flush with meter with PW solo or in a team.

Out of curiosity, do you know what it is that makes PW so shitty at gaining meter(and Squigly? I don't play her well enough to know shit all about her meter gain)?

I'm guessing it is her reliance on normals and gimped buers (gimped in the meter gaining sense as per Mr. Z) as opposed to say Pea and Bella who use specials all of the time and have phenomenal meter gain?
 
I'm not sure specifically what it is. I think meter actually builds through damage dealt, but whiffing specials also builds meter. Whiffing specials is something PW does not do very often and she DOES use specials a lot during combos, so with Buer's low meter gain she overall builds little.

Squigly's meter gain actually isn't too bad, really. It is just that she USES it like a demon. All over the place meter is being spent. She needs to come in with a meter which doesn't help matters because a Squigly without meter or at LEAST a full charge is gonna struggle during the neutral game and well, she has pretty poor defence, better than PW though.
 
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