Painwheel MU Thread

Discussion in 'Painwheel' started by Spencer, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Just a place to get some match-up (MU) advice.

    I've been having a hell of a time lately vs Filia and Parasoul.

    Specifically, Filia's iad spam and Para's disgusting airpriority.
     
  2. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Filia


    I'll just go into the basics to not make heads swim:

    If its 1v1 which it will rarely be, painwheel has some good options for stopping filia iad stuff... Primarily it is st.mk. It hits at the perfect angle to completely wipeout filias iad. The problem being wiffing it, but painwheel can wiff it then cancel the wiff into flight then "cancel" flight into up forward plus charged jumping hard punch.

    Other things pw can do are to make or gain space (use st.mk threat to gain space) then throw lvl1 stinger to cover the ground or air. And flight cancel it to apply pressure, thus turning the tables.

    If it isn't 1v1, then painwheel can have serious problems cause her st.mk is much less safe to just spam because of the threat of an assist. Generally speaking filia seems to win it slightly at 1v1 and somewhat easily when both characters are assisted.


    Parasoul:

    Dealing with j.lp is a bitch. 1v1 the matchup seems to be slightly in parasouls favor, and about the same with assists... If not better for painwheel since pw can use assists to get through parasouls oppressive jumping normals.

    This changes if parasoul is using updo, at which point the matchup seems to be pretty bad cause at that point parasoul beats painwheel from far and beats her upclose with updo... Painwheel grabbing her own updo doesn't help her break through the shot spam, so double hornet bomber is generally the assist of choice for her, which gets beaten by updo when both are called at the same time and even on reaction.


    The primary thing painwheel has going for her in the matchup is her defensive footsies with flight, her damage output and corner carry, her resets especially the aerial ones. But with the exception of her flight, all of those are in combo, where just about every character is good.

    So basically if you want to beat parasoul you are going to have to be able to consistently out footsie her when you have the superior mobility and she has the superior buttons and range.

    Parasoul is somewhat weak to painwheels ground armor, and painwheel can and should use her j.hp armor to get through parasouls mp shot.
     
    jam1220 and Spencer like this.
  3. WarpedEcho

    WarpedEcho Meh

    Location:
    CT
    Steam:
    Warped Echo
    Big Band
    Painwheel
    Dime has touched on this, but the hp nail(1) xx Fly is important in many matchups (although it is space dependent, so be vigilant in knowing whats going on in the match) It's really good in the squigly and double match, because they think they can walk all over you with j hp and j hk, instead you can preemptively aa them AND get a combo
     
  4. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Interestingly, due to charged j.hp, I have little problem with zoning. I also love when Para tries to snipershot me out of fly. One charged j.hp and I am in. Really the Parasouls that don't zone are the problem for me. Her air priority is horrifying.

    Squigs, I don't love charged j.hp when they are j.hp spamming. I get hit far too often. I prefer j.hk for that lovely shield. It doesn't move you closer, but I can generally inch up and end up better out of the exchanges.
     
  5. NOX

    NOX You die in the game, you die for real

    Steam:
    /id/kuzu-nox/
    Filia
    Painwheel
    Double
    Anyone got any advice against Bella? I struggle with her way more than I should.
     
  6. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Bella solo is rough.

    She is designed to hurt PW, I'm convinced.

    Her anti-air throw is super annoying and has deceptive range, but it isn't scary unless you are cornered (see also: don't get cornered) as she needs meter to do anything out of it.

    At the start, jump back and chickenblock. Unless something has changed, you have no other safe options. Be careful, some Bellas know this and jump forward to airthrow you.

    j.mp is sexy. Bella's armor is useless against it. You get a full combo.

    Watch out for dropped combos and ground resets. She is, without a doubt, spamming her throw super, and it will without a doubt hurt.

    I also find that going toe-to-toe with Bella in a throw based game usually goes well (though I've no idea what makes Bella more prone to throws).
     
    jam1220 likes this.
  7. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I can give advice on Bella, some of it may work ok depending on who you are. The best Bella player I've played is age, he's hands down better than any other Bella I've played against.


    Here's how to take on the matchup:

    In general you want to back up and treat her like shes zangief. If you space it right, it's hard for Bella or just about any character for that matter to contend with a painwheel that spaces their dash j.mp well.

    Unfortunately this implies backing up, and if painwheel backs up to much she corners herself. But it is what it is, painwheel can't really contend with Bella's air normals so painwheel is forced to back up or take unsafe risks such as raw airsupers or raw air lk buers.

    Upclose Bella also destroys painwheel easily cause Bella's upclose cr.lk is faster than painwheels best pokes. And if painwheel tries to jump out of command grabs she can easily be hit low, but if she stays on the ground she can be thrown. A very bad look indeed.

    Painwheel generally has a slight advantage at range and painwheel has a big advantage upclose if she has frame advantage. Other than that Bella is very susceptible to mid air resets.


    The perfect way to play against Bella is to zone her out, make her run into an assist, confirm off the assist into full combo, air reset her into another full combo and then end with a super and a dhc for the kill...


    Unfortunately things don't go as planned much of the time. Cause while painwheels optimal plan is to keep space, Bella's optimal plan is to corner the opponent... So painwheels plan coincides with Bella's but Bella's has more priority, more damage, longer ranged pokes and faster ground mobility as well as the ability to jump higher than painwheel.

    So yeah, its a hard matchup.
     
    Spencer likes this.
  8. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    Take this with a grain of salt; I'm still pretty new.

    Against Parasouls, I generally focus on slowly advancing and pushblocking her bit by bit into the corner. The only way she can really get into you is either dashing in, dashing behind an assist, jumping in honest, or jumping in with a j.LK/j.MK crossup. The first three can be turned into a bad spacing play for her with judicious pushblocking (i.e., slowly walk her into the corner) and the last one is pretty uncommon/hail-mary if they don't set it up well.

    Parasoul's j.LP, j.MP string is usually enough to discourage air-to-air play for painwheel, but if you're really confident they'll do it, tiger-knee a LK buer (2367+lk or 2369+LK depending on her angle/approach) and you'll catch them. For whatever reason, air buers seem to work better in priority fights than standing HK-Buer. Just don't be wrong or do too many, as it's a quick way to get airthrown.

    Corner Bella is corner Bella; I think you really need to know her and how to defend against her more than trying to create an opening with aggression or counters/reversals that Painwheel really doesn't have. The reward for reading a throw should at best be a j.MK/j.HK into combo, or at worst a jump/fly into crossup guess attempt. The reward for reading an AAthrow is pretty much anything; anti-air throw whiff lasts forever.

    I think most Painwheel players (and really, most Skullgirls players) tend to be overly focused on aggression and forcing their game on to all characters they fight. In our case, fly cancel rushdown is probably the single worst possible idea against a character with an invincible AA/Reversal and high-priority air to air conversions. Similarly, it's a pretty bad idea against a good Bella player that can see the flight approaches well enough to either judiciously AA-throw or reversal Dynamo when we're overextending pressure.

    That said, in both of these matchups, we can fly circles around both characters and get a lot of rewards for pushblocking/reading, which is fine by me. Painwheel does a lot of damage and is really mobile, but not all of her damage has to start by exploiting her mobility. If it's shut down, look to make reads and punish.
     
    Spencer likes this.
  9. Zomgief

    Zomgief hey.

    Location:
    SoCal
    XBL:
    theseveredtoe
    Painwheel
    Filia
    Painwheel/fillia vs. "Cock Copter" (peacock/cerrecopter)

    For the life of me I don't know to deal with this match up. I'm stuck on Xbox so I don't have that assist lockout thing I've been hearing so much about. I know snapping in Cerrebella is a good option but that requires me to land a hit first which is what I'm having troubles with. I know hairball is a good assist to use but i often find that fillia gets pegged by one of the 600 thousand projectiles on the screen.

    I would consider myself a high intermediate to low advanced player, any advice would be great.
     
  10. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    @Zomgief
    Age, one of my playing buddies plays this team. Its extremely difficult to deal with, and i tend to use hornet bomber against it which is much better than updo... So, first things first, dont use updo..
    Thats a terrible assist for taking on peacock of you run point painwheel. Use hairball which is marginally better and functions perfectly as a meatshield. To toss a stinger or something at peacock. But really past that its ALL ABOUT knowing your jumpin ranges. Try to jump in against peacock with your j.lk,your j.mk, and your j.mp... But try not to hit her on the head... She covers that area very well. Try to clip her toes/midsection... When doing that correctly you should jump under her hk bomb, but over her lk and mk bomb... Its a blind spot she has against almost every character.

    But yeah this matchup is so hard that i just started using my own peacock to deal with it... I can win it as painwheel, but its super tough and the odds just arent there to try and maintain a 50% ratio against it.
     
  11. Zomgief

    Zomgief hey.

    Location:
    SoCal
    XBL:
    theseveredtoe
    Painwheel
    Filia
    Yeah I usually pick hairball against this team, but playing quick matches online I don't know what team I'm going up against until after its too late and It always seems like they disappear after one game so I can't try hairball on them.

    I really have no problem dealing with Peacock solo or with different assists. My biggest problem is the cerrecopter assist, Its just too good against painwheel. I feel like the best thing to do is just learn new characters or something lol
     
  12. Zomgief

    Zomgief hey.

    Location:
    SoCal
    XBL:
    theseveredtoe
    Painwheel
    Filia
    I know this is a painwheel thread but what would be some good characters to pick up that deal with this team better than painwheel?
     
  13. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    Peacock with hairball and peacock with bomber destroys bella with copter, cause peacock has ranged assist against a peacock that doesnt is in the player that has the ranged assists advantage. Usually the copter user will start trying to teleport in and stuff which shows how bad the matchup can be when both players are equal.
     
  14. Zomgief

    Zomgief hey.

    Location:
    SoCal
    XBL:
    theseveredtoe
    Painwheel
    Filia
    looks like I might need to pick up a pocket cock. (I have way too much fun making those "cock" puns)
     
    NCV likes this.
  15. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Just make sure that your pocket cock is double cocked at all times... Cause you wouldnt want people to catch you using feelyacock... Thats just embarrassing :)
     
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  16. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Alright, I went vs a good Squiggly last night probably 10 times. I am pretty freaking convinced that this MU is borderline impossible for PW.

    I've been on tilt, and I don't know Squigs enough to avoid all of her moves, but the ones I do know are rough as hell to deal with.

    j.hp if done well is nigh impossible to stop meaning the terms of the fight are up to Squigs.
    Her sing super is made to deal with flight it seems. Center stage into sing super is an instant combo.
    Squigs is always above you (which illustrated to me how little we have to counter anything above us).
    Her damage is strong when she does combo.
    Everything she has is multihit which makes armor borderline worthless.

    Halp!
     
  17. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    Unfortunately i have yet to face a really good squigly. I do have a decent amount of squiglys to fight, but they arent the best imho... They all have super ridiculous combos though...

    But i dont find j.hp to be that big of a deal... Yet. Yesterday i was destroying the best squigly out here... His footsies are good, his combos are excellent, but his mindgames at this point are weak (and he spams the shit out of j.hp "but in a good way"). Anyways... I just baited out his j.hp in as many ways as possible i would simply block it (yes thats an option especially if the j.hp is spaced very far away.. Remember this is 1v1 so there is no assist lockdown to be afraid of)

    I hit it with my outstretched j.mp many times... My best overall counter. A couple of times when i knew he was getting a bit liberal with it as far as doing it early in his jump on the way up, i dashed toward it underneath it and got a full combo on him.

    I dont think the matchup is good for painwheel at all, but unfortunately im a little to good at it ATM to give any real advice... Maybe i can get age to use her against me... Hes the only squigly that beats me, but he hasn't used her in forever.

    A further tip against her is to not use flight as much, and when you do use it, use it for short amounts of time. Use a good amount of dash j.mp and empty jump and simply waiting for a bit. After that, just destroy her with your resets once you get a hit.
     
  18. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    @Dime_x

    If you are blocking it, are you not flying? Yeah I'm likely flying too much. I know I also have a habit of using j.mp out of pure instinct way too close which is the source of a lot of damage put on me.

    The Squigs beating me was @guitalex2007 I'm pretty sure (or someone using his/her name).
     
  19. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    There is your problem right there... Guitalex is probably the best squigly out there right now. Im sure he'd more than likely give me a beating if we were to play as well... Though perhaps not... I have my anti squigly tech.

    And yes dont fly that much. Not flying alot is a style i and all painwheels will have to develop to handle certain matchups better... For instance. You dont really want to fly predictably against val, because savage bypass into super owns flight for free.

    Same against squigly... I tend to keep the flying to a either a minimum amount of time in the air, or i use it for fine positioning... OR i use it when i know the squigly is looking for alternative ways in.

    But like i said, i dont have a squigly to play against that is on his level and playing against good people completely changes matchups.

    If you want to see the not flying much style, in action... Just watch negus eyoels painwheel matches... He mostly just jumps with j.mp and dash j.mp and calls assists... He uses flight more to setup mixups or to avoid things... Not so much as an all around movement.

    I tend to use both styles of heavy flying and not so heavy flying.

    Duckator has a much of him versus negus on his channel. I suggest you look at it cause negus use the non flight style a lot in that matchup.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  20. guitalex2007

    guitalex2007 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    guitalex2007
    PSN:
    guitalex2007
    XBL:
    guitalex2010
    Oh hai.

    Yes, that would be me, and I remember you. While normally flying and ysing armor j.HP would be a decent way to stay in the air, Squigly's j.HP hits multiple times and has insane range, so against her it's not the best idea. Her air throw can also lead to full combo and it gets pretty nasty.

    I don't play PW but I'm just going by what I saw.

    Maybe... you can catch her j.HP with air super or one of the air command grabs and go from there? I always laugh when I get caught by full screen Excellebella.

    Here's an excerpt from my Squigly guide:

    "Painwheel - Keep Dragon charged, and use j.HP and j.MP to control the air. j.HP should be your number one priority, as j.MP has very little range and priority against Painwheel's ridiculous aerial priority. Be advised that Painwheel can do Buer Thresher in the air and catch j.HP, dragging her in for the rest of the super and the fly canceled followup combo, so be judicious in its use. Draugen Punch is your reversal of priority in order to create your space again."
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  21. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Thresher is hard to make work. You were bringing j.hp on top of my head. I'll have to double check hitboxes, but I think it would miss you unless you use it at equal height.

    I think the next key is to try and stay grounded more (which is a hard habit to get into) and use ground to air buer and block to inch my way in if possible. I also need to break my habit of j.mp at close range. You caught me mid startup frame way more than a few times. Anyway, good games and well played. I hope to run into you a bit more. I need some Squigs practice.
     
  22. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    This is good but i think one of the other things youve got to start doing is is not thinking that you have to get in... Squigly has just as much problem getting in against painwheel as painwheel does getting in against her. Also, i dont think staying on the ground is great. I mean definitely go there more in this matchup than others just to make sure that she cant time her j.hp as well as if you were always in the air. But what you "should" be doing imho is hopping around constantly and using fly to adjust your landing timings... You dont want to always be landing at the same times after jumping... Makes it easier to make you block something close range and thusly easier to put you in some sort of mixup... In fact, as ive played the matchup, one of the biggest points of contention in the matchup is to take advantage of the other character landing. Squigly can only double jump. So her landing is fairly predictable as far as timing is concerned... You just have to read the squigly and figure out what her jump patterns are... Does she love to double jump? Or does she single jump? Does she double jump and press j.hp? Does she double jump empty? Does she double or single jump and throw out j.hp then cancel it into a wiffed divekick to get back to the ground faster in order to be able to jump again?


    Most people have movement patterns that they use. Everyone switches them up, but the predictability generally comes in at what range they do things at. Also, its paramount to know what it is that your opponent is "looking for" many people are looking for some sort of overextension of jumping so that they can jump at you as you land. If you know this though you can easily bait them by overextending, then as they jump at you you can anticipate their jump and air to air super them... Thats a very basic bait. Its used with AA assists all the time instead of an airsuper.


    But you can take it even further and seem to overextend, then at the last minute pull back and watch as the opponent jumps in to where they thought you would be...

    Lol... Thats probably super redundant for me to say... But i got off on a tangent... And now here we are.
     
  23. WarpedEcho

    WarpedEcho Meh

    Location:
    CT
    Steam:
    Warped Echo
    Big Band
    Painwheel
    If you want to fight squigs, its not as bad as you may think. You do have to play much more of a ground game, and only use flight when you're above her at closer ranges. hk buer is good if they like to spam her j h buttons haphazardly, and hp nails if they are more on point. Ground dash is actually decent in this match. Squig's best options are her hard buttons in the air against pw, and if you can get then to be misspaced by keeping your ground position mixed up, then the matchup becomes a lot easier. If they're divekick happy once she does get in at close range (don't try to armor at ranges where she can j hk xx divekick), obviously armor through with cr lp.

    edit: watch out for tremolo full screen if she has a charge. try to bait it out before using nails if that's the case
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  24. guitalex2007

    guitalex2007 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    guitalex2007
    PSN:
    guitalex2007
    XBL:
    guitalex2010
    Well, if it helps, air super DOES hit above her now on frame 1. You could give that a try.

    And to add to @WarpedEcho's post, also don't toss out nails if she has dragon charged and a meter. Seria Sing xx Opera is 0f post flash.
     
    WarpedEcho likes this.
  25. NCV

    NCV Community Person

    Steam:
    ncv
    Painwheel
    Parasoul
    Painwheel
    hk buer will beat it, if you see it. and at 1/2-full screen SQ can't do much to you whiffing it without good reactions, unless you do it every time.
     
  26. TrulyAmiracle

    TrulyAmiracle Mobility Spammer~

    Location:
    Oregon
    Steam:
    TrulyAmiracle
    PSN:
    TrulyAmiracle
    XBL:
    TrulyAmiracle
    Painwheel
    Cerebella
    Parasoul
    Any advice vs Peacock? This bitch has been manhandling me lately lol.
     
  27. NCV

    NCV Community Person

    Steam:
    ncv
    Painwheel
    Parasoul
    Painwheel
    Use ground dash + block to close space. when flying, do so just above hp/hp bang range. Flying forward at this range escapes lvl item and allows you to dodge bombs. Take every opportunity to hit an assist to lock them out. Having just a moment longer where you don't have to worry about double or updo is huge.
     
  28. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    @StripeyBoosh

    This is the place to ask your question. There is already a lot of general parasoul info in this thread... After having read that and you still have questions feel free to ask.
     
  29. StripeyBoosh

    StripeyBoosh "You're a wheel pain!"

    Steam:
    Matticus
    Painwheel
    Painwheel
    Painwheel
    I am actually struggling against solo peacocks. I've figured a few things out here and there.

    So far I just try to lure her in. Waiting for her to roll a bomb at me so that she will teleport over to me.
    At this point I get her into a combo, but if I mess up at all she comes at me with that knife of hers and it's all over.

    The process repeats.

    Also, what should I do in the corner vs Bella and Parasoul?
    Seems like if I find myself there, I'm toast depending on the tactics of the other player.
    I feel like the reset window is really small against a good Parasoul.
    I held my blocks while waiting for the reset, and when it came PW didn't block.

    I made sure I was blocking appropriately for the chain, but it just didn't happen for some reason?
    Maybe the lag or something caused this?

    Anyway, solo Squigly is a pretty 50/50 matchup for me.

    But any team with Double in it really messes me up.
    I have no idea have to approach double since she has PW's j.MP and uses it quite well.
    She's also all over me with those grabs.
    I tried implementing some grabs into my defense but she beats me to it every time.

    Should I just go grab a pudding when I'm cornered or is there hope?
     
  30. NCV

    NCV Community Person

    Steam:
    ncv
    Painwheel
    Parasoul
    Painwheel
    Uh any halfway decent peacock will be more than happy to stay away if your gameplan is to "lure her in." Solo PC is pretty easy IMO, as flight can get you around all of her projectiles, and coupled with ground dash you should not have trouble catching up to her. + updo or butt or knuckles and then it starts.
     
  31. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    @StripeyBoosh

    I'm running out of time before I have to close up at work, so this might be brief.

    Peacock throws that bomb and teleports behind you. You read here tele and can confirm. The problem is that bomb slowly walking to you is going to knock you out of a combo. For that, I find a hg s.hp often takes her by surprise. In any case, this is a timing thing, but you are going to have to reset some how. If you can't confirm out of the teleport, fly forward (now backwards) over the bomb, and you've a more favorable position. As for her knife, be less predictable with your jump-ins, and be cautious with your resets. Many Peas mash it like Filias mash Gregor.

    I don't have a lot of advice vs Double. She can be tough, but I'd say it is 50/50. Her j.mp (which has better start up than ours I believe) is just as prone to pushblock. Be cautious of the angle on her ground shoot as it can make flying and jump-ins rough. Know that you can fly over car and punish hard.
     
  32. StripeyBoosh

    StripeyBoosh "You're a wheel pain!"

    Steam:
    Matticus
    Painwheel
    Painwheel
    Painwheel
    Believe it or not, for whatever reason they have been tempted to come close so that they could actually combo.

    But as far as getting around projectiles go, that's easier said than done against the particular 2 Peacocks that I fight regularly.
    They seem to know when I'm baiting them to let go of their "Look out below" attack.
    So I proceed thinking I can hatred guard j.HP to block it and attack her. The result is either the variant with the series of spike balls,
    or she delays the release and tricks me instead.

    Catching up to her without Lenny messing everything up is challenging.
    Any time I go for a ground dash, it's met by her magnum, which happens consistently.
    So I know the players are both well aware of it.

    I will say I have yet to find out what happens when you push-block her projectiles.

    Here's the usual Peacock setup:
    Show Spoiler
    I bait her planes, proceed, bait her Elephant dropping shenanigans, go low to dodge her 2nd plane, get in close, open up the first phase of my combo, and as I proceed to the next phase, she knifes me and fires her lasers. I've also tried meeting her at the ground and immediately going for a Buer>combo. Never really get solid results. But I don't really expect to get how to beat those two any time soon.


    Bella:
    Show Spoiler
    I couldn't help but notice some of Bella's move are off-the-chain. I didn't realize she had so much armor, plus her specials really help her in a tight spot.
    Maybe in the past I just played bad Bella's that didn't use her very well.

    I don't feel safe in the air against her. But at a distance on the ground I feel more confident.
    (lololol cuz she can't hit me)

    I always meet her charge with a Buer. But the trouble is that she's never solo when I fight her anymore.
    Bella can really do some interesting stuff with the right assists. I was surprised a few times.
    (I'm not too familiar with all of the assists yet; I play solo, so this is troublesome.)
    So there's always something extra waiting for me when I try something new.

    Then eventually she's up in my grill and I'm cornered.
    I meet a sad end every time; her level 3 with her teammate's special laid on top. I've seen it so many times it's like a bad commercial.
     
  33. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    How's everyone handling BB?

    I find at full range (which is where I like to be while planning my approach) he is a nightmare, but up close he is much more manageable. I'm having to readjust and go almost full rushdown, but it seems to work.
     
  34. Krackatoa

    Krackatoa Painwizard

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Painwheel
    Beowulf
    Double
    Played some last night at my locals. Up close, the threat of Instant Overheads is really noticeable. This is a situation where Painwheel wrecks house, because j.LP,j.LK,j.MK is an optimal starter.

    At range, I'm not too bothered. You can't just fly at him, but you can fly low to the ground and land with Unfly to avoid general Giant Step/A-Train stuff. Armor works wonders on him. You can armor Giant Step.

    Also, Gatling into Sweep on Reaction + Counter Assist Call on H Brass Calls seems really good. The Peacock/BigBand combo is still a tough nut to crack.

    Beat Extend is a better counterpick assist in some matchups. Obviously H Brass is go-to for zoners

    Big Band is pretty good overall, but his size and moveset allow you to stuff a lot of things on reaction. His bigness also puts you practically off screen when he takes to the air.
     
  35. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    Yeah, the "don't fly high" advice is something you learn pretty fast. I don't generally fly low either preferring to dash in though I'll have to try it.

    You figure out any good mixups? He's too damn big to fly over, so I've been relying on high/low.

    Also, run a few tests to see if they are mashing. I've found his supers make for solid reversals.
     
  36. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    BB is still new and weird, so take this with a grain of salt, but I don't find him especially scary if you take the same patient "if I catch you, I'm gonna fuck you" mentality into the matchup that you would with Peacock. Most BBs seem to want to do this fullscreen thing and you can just play safe and go in patiently.

    Icky is probably the only point BB (and the only aggressive BB) I've seen/played and it still seems really high risk high reward for both parties.

    On offense, you can mix him up to death with instant overheads and lows until he feels compelled to mash BE/SSJ, and bait/punish pretty hard.
     
  37. AceZTeller

    AceZTeller The Spooniest Bard

    Location:
    Detroit
    Steam:
    acezteller
    Robo Fortune
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Unfly is pretty fun against Big Band. :P
     
  38. StripeyBoosh

    StripeyBoosh "You're a wheel pain!"

    Steam:
    Matticus
    Painwheel
    Painwheel
    Painwheel
    Peacock BB kind of broke the game for me. It's like rocket science.
    It's so hard I feel like I'm playing battle toads.

    I never played the beta much, so I didn't know Big Band too well.
    I was devastated 1v1, but soon figured him out.
    Is that ground smack move of his blockable? Is it a low or something? I couldn't block it regularly.
    His solo play isn't so bad, but when he's backing up peacock it's tough.

    His body works like a curtain over her on the assist, next thing I know she's teleported to me.
    It's like naruto up in here at this point. I bravely block her assault and get punched by BB again.
    At this point she's got me where she wants me and unloads little bombs and magnum shots.
    I start shivering as her meter is on the rise.
    If I approach her like I normally would, I get met with a huge painful BB fist to the face followed by lazors.

    I'm not sure if it's possible to beat her solo when she's got BB. I broke through once and took 3/4s of her health.
    But lucky for her BB came to the rescue and played a one-man-ensemble of victory. After 3 matches I had to throw in the towel.
     
  39. Krackatoa

    Krackatoa Painwizard

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Painwheel
    Beowulf
    Double
    Giant Step is unblockable when you're out of range, but doesn't hit airborn opponents. It can be armored.

    When you're in range, it's an overhead. This is a throwback to Potemkin's Slidehead.

    If you want to deal with BB, try using cr.HK through the assist on reaction. Not optimal, but it will stop it in startup. Nothing else you can do besides that.

    I highly recommend picking up an assist to deal with the matchup.
     
  40. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I dont find BB particularly hard at all... Especially pea band if the peacock uses brass knuckles assist. Beat extend might be a different story. But i heard it doesnt hit air or something.much more annoying to me is pea/filia.

    BB tends to get beaten hard by painwheels j.mp from what ive seen. It stops his armor punches flatout and forces BB cancel into ssj... Which never happens to me, or simply get gacked on. Not that the matchup cant be bad... but BB seems to lack most of the things that give pw problems which is extreme range and keepaway, or super high priority air to air or really good ground to air... Getting scooped by his ground to air special doesnt seem like a huge threat to me when he cant combo off of it, but if he gets blocked air or wiffs ground pw gets a fatty combo... Maybe i just havent played against a solid enough BB, but he feels super tame in comparison to bella or peacock.
     

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