Peacock Neutral Game Thread: Tips and Strategies

Discussion in 'Peacock' started by Mr Peck, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Mr Peck

    Mr Peck that UK Peacock player Lab Zero

    Location:
    Guildford, UK
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    Here's a (well overdue) thread for talking about Peacock's neutral game! If you want to talk about general strategies or how to deal with certain characters or situations, this is the thread for it.

    I'll start with a couple of fairly specific tips:

    Peacock's j.LP is fast, safe, and can be converted into a full combo on hit. It's incredibly useful for beating out big slow air normals like Ms Fortune's j.HK, Cerebella's j.MP, Parasoul's j.HP and Double's j.HP. Here's a video I made for how to turn an air-to-air j.LP into a combo from a normal jump or a super jump:



    Also when playing against Filia, I used to have trouble trying to punish random air hairballs. Airballs are safe on block, can be dash cancelled on whiff, and move forward too fast for MP or HP item drops to hit her. After messing around in training mode, here are the best options I found:


    • Block it (on the ground or in the air) and call an assist that hits airbourne opponents. This is easy and completely safe, even if Filia cancels the airball into Gregor Samson.
    • Use a static LP item drop.
    • Counterhit during the hairball's active frames with a well-spaced j.LP or j.HP.
    • Dodge the hairball and punish with a fast j.LP.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
    Dhoppler, Shooon, Mao and 1 other person like this.
  2. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I have a neutral game question. How does everyone like to use item drops? I still tend to use the H one all the time out of habit, but M is probably a lot better most of the time. The issue I find when I charge an M item, though, is that people sit at full screen and wait for it to fall, then go in. I feel like if I've got M charging and they aren't approaching me, I need to rush down to get mileage out of it, which I don't always want to do, sometimes I want to keep the good positioning I've got.

    Also does anyone use L item for anything?
     
    Mr Peck likes this.
  3. Mao

    Mao Buttons 'R Fun

    Location:
    Auckland, NZ
    Steam:
    Mao
    PSN:
    sussex4lyf
    Peacock
    Double
    Big Band
    Some of the ways I personally like to use item drop in neutral is first of all just do it raw (m/h) to keep peoples approaches honest esp from the air, maybe charging it for a little bit if the positioning is off slightly but I don't really tend to charge them alot while zoning because tracking nerfs make it significantly easier to avoid. Also doing bang h (+ buttslam) is great for hitconfirms into argus (at some ranges with bang h + buttslam, after the first shot you have time to do h item xx argus on hit (which can lead to stuff like triple argus or lvl 3 item + teleport shenanigans) and bomb setups on block)

    However, as soon as the enter that slightly uncomfortable space I like to start charging m item. After this there are a few things you can do, with my personal favourite things being to jump directly into them and block before releasing the item (which will have reached lvl 2 by the time I've released it). A loooot of people (esp quick match people but not everyone) love pressing buttons when I do this and its an easy way for them to open themselves up). Alternatively you can do back airdash as a runaway tactic while holding the item, which can be effective with both m and l items (use l if you suspect they will pursue you with enough speed to negate the tracking of m, otherwise use m).

    TBH I see item drop as more of a 'trump card' kind of tool once it's prepared than anything but again doing it raw on reaction to jump ins at a distance can be a pretty good stalling tactic. idk play around with it.
     
  4. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    .... Weeeeeeelllllllll personally i think that if one charges mp item it is paramount to either rushdown OR save there gtfo assist for if the mp item is allowed to go to full charge and wiff. Other things are seeing the opponents back off strat and drop the mp item prematurely on wiff so as to try and take advantage of a level 2 cooldown rather than a huge lvl 3 cooldown.
    But. Dont really use charged items anymore. I just potshot with lvl1 mp and hp item as well as counter charge peacocks that charge hp items in the mirror.
     
    Mr Peck likes this.
  5. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    M and Rushdown even at fullscreen, you trade one good positioning (fullscreen) for another (in their face at +20)
    I utilize L sometimes to get distance back as it's unavoidable, eg midrange Updo~LDrop(charge), then backdash and let the Drop fall
    I almost never use H because anytime they're closer than absolute max distance they can do anything and avoid it completely? At least that was my impression.

    I'm a horrendously bad Peacock though so uuuuh.
     
  6. Mr Peck

    Mr Peck that UK Peacock player Lab Zero

    Location:
    Guildford, UK
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    If this happens and you really don't want to rush them down, I find it's often better to let go of the item before it hits level 3 so you don't have to wait as long before you can start charging another one.

    edit: Oops, Dime already said this...
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
    Beamsprouts and Dime like this.
  7. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Sooo... Im pretty stupid when picking up on certain VERY obvious things. The latest thing i picked up on that top players do is jumpin and call an assist on their descent. I always called assists before i jumped in or after i jumped in, during a blockstring. (Note that I'm talking about, any character with an anti air assist here not specifically peacock)

    The reason that tops do this is so that if they get the jumpin to make contact, it does good things... On block it allows for for run in pressure, on hit it will combo into the assist and then the point will confirm via dash up otg. On wiff it protects the point from being pressured while being on the ground against an opposing character that most likely is airborn and now has a spacial advantage if not for the assist protecting the lower character... And it also protects jumpins that wiff over grounded characters... So its an incredible option select type of assist calling.

    I only noticed it when watching some konkrete versus duck matches and konkrete was using the pattern so obviously that is was extremely hard to miss.

    So it applies to peacock as well. I found a pattern that i really like with her and is kinda what i would call a "bnb" pattern:

    1. Wiff J.mp or j.hp (back or forward or neutral doesnt matter, they are all useful) xx airdash forward, j.lk plus assist (best seems to be copter and lk bomber though im sure AA assists are super useful as well.

    This pattern is great against people trying to rushdown peacock and part of its greatness is its ability to be mixed up and changed to suit peacocks needs. She can start with jumpjng backwards into airdash backwards if she wants to be defensive, or she can jump forward then airdash forward if she wants to be offensive, or she can neutral jump j.hp and cancel that into an airdash forward j.lk to maintain her spacing.

    Before i knew how good calling assists while landing from a jumpin was, these patterns were weak because i would try them without cover of an assist and peacocks j.lk had less hitstun. Whereas now they are really good as alternative movement pattterns when the threat of an assist can protect her..

    So sorry if thats obvious but most neutral game stuff is obvious when its pointed out.
    Also, im of course not saying that people dont already use or abuse this (though i havent seen any peacocks abusing this, perhaps because i was never aware to look for it) and i figured if i could play this long and have a decent cock and not know these things, then it might apply to others as well. Hope you guys find the pattern good, its pretty awesome footsies when shes starts combining it with m item holds, super jumps, j.mk, double jumps... Etc etc etc
     
  8. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    About using new M Item drop, I don't have PC version yet but I figure you would want to throw out H Bang and a George, then drop it during the lock-down, call it again and repeat. It seems really good for protecting yourself and getting more Bangs off. H Item just seems useless outside of combos maybe? Nobody is going to sit full screen with nothing on top of them long enough to allow you to do anything useful with H Item.

    I never really had a problem with Hairball, I just j.hk the super jump hair balls and shoot Filia in the face with j.hp.

    j.lp is amazing air to air, and even better now with the ability to air grab into full combos. Jumping vs Peacock is always a risk now, I love it.
     
  9. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Peacock with center stage assist is "interesting"

    St.hp plus center stage xx hk bomb xx lk bomb

    Pattern to be used from far end of screen, if the opponent was in the air, the center stage will pull them into peacocks hk bomb, if they were on the ground then it would pull the opponent into lk bomb so that clears up one of center stages biggest weaknesses... It does weird stuff depending on the opponent being in the air on the ground. Now peacock will have a pretty big advantage here once the bombs hit or get blocked. Use smartly when the opponent is off assist so that there assist cant meatshield the lk george and free up the sucked in point character.

    There are lots of other cool things that can be done with center stage assist that peacock particularly loves, but this pattern is pretty good. Also note that because of the suction effect and the opponent being pulled into peacocks bombs, peacock can many times get off what feels like a triple bombs. Also, when the opponent is pulled in and blocking her bombs, an mp or hp lvl 1 item drop is perfect to set up an offense behind.

    Using center stage with peacock is dubious at this time because its not the only assist one would want on a team. And in order to use it you need another character to use it well or an assist that squigly could use well. So imho the trio teams to try with this are:

    Pea/squigs/double
    Pea/fortune/squigs

    The fortune team is complete theory fighter but fortune generally has people running away from her and her head and is also pretty capable of playing on her own plus squigly center stage can actually call the head closer... So yeah, peacock uses fortunes fiber pretty well of course as a gtfo.
     
  10. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Since L Bang is no longer useful on defense, how safe is M Bang xx Lenny on block? Can somebody run some tests to punish it with Fenrir on block and get the results? I'm thinking about making it a defensive option similar to Pillar xx Bikes, if meter is available.
     
  11. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    M.Bang by itself is already -3, no Lenny necessary.
    E: Oh he increased recovery. Let me actually test this.

    E:
    #1: Raw M.Bang is -9, but has so much pushback and range that it can't be punished by much in most circumstances
    #2: M.Bang xx Lenny is -12, so not exactly helping out here :E
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  12. Mr Peck

    Mr Peck that UK Peacock player Lab Zero

    Location:
    Guildford, UK
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    The last time I tried it, M Bang xx Lenny was pretty much equally as unsafe as M Bang by itself.

    edit: what Vulpes said
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  13. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    =(

    Thanks for checking.
     
  14. ninja-nutria

    ninja-nutria Solopeacock is legit.

    Location:
    Tampico, Mexico.
    Steam:
    ninja-nutria
    PSN:
    ninja-nutria
    Peacock
    Peacock
    Peacock
    yeah most of the time i use mp shadow. either i j.hk then let item drop or j.mk

    also lp item drop is useful since they my dash an avoid mp shadow it is more for predicting when the opponent its getting close and mp wont hit.
     
  15. ninja-nutria

    ninja-nutria Solopeacock is legit.

    Location:
    Tampico, Mexico.
    Steam:
    ninja-nutria
    PSN:
    ninja-nutria
    Peacock
    Peacock
    Peacock
    mmm hp shadow, maybe in the corners for pressure, i do it because i use a pad though.
     
  16. Shooon

    Shooon just here

    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Steam:
    Shooon
    PSN:
    MagiclManlCooker
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    Big Band
    Oh here's an interesting tidbit I just figured out.
    When using your Lvl 3 to detonate Lenny, Lenny's location doesn't matter at all.
    Lenny doesn't even have to be on screen to be detonated by her Lvl 3.
     
  17. ninja-nutria

    ninja-nutria Solopeacock is legit.

    Location:
    Tampico, Mexico.
    Steam:
    ninja-nutria
    PSN:
    ninja-nutria
    Peacock
    Peacock
    Peacock
    yeah its more like it waits until your lvl 3 finish so he can explode.
     
  18. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Been playing more peacock lately... My newest thing is to constantly setup crossups via assists... I was doing this before of course, but not basing my game on it.

    What I'm basically doing now is using lvl1 or 2 mp item drop, immediately call assist and then teleport crossup... The item drop holds them in place for the crossup. I'm using mk bomber for this atm.

    A reset that I've been using don't know how gimmicky it is... But here goes:


    Standard bnb into restand st.mk xx lvl 1 mp item drop: the item drop either combos, or gets blocked, or gets pushblocked... Just as your item drop cools, call your bomber or copter and then teleport crossup.

    Can also be done with st.mk plus assist into teleport, but less consistent and allows the opponent more time to mash something out.

    My general neutral game strat has been to airdash back j.hk and call out Bomber right after my j.hk. As I'm still in the air. Avery covers the bomber startup and bomber will hit people that make the Avery miss. When I land and call out hk george xx lk George (then bang x3 or lvl1 hp item drop or charge in with charged mp item drop, all with the intent to protect double)

    Depending on what happens, I'm usually at fullscreen after that series and double has recovered or I've argued the opponent, so I'll have time to charge mp item drop and rush in looking for the item drop assist teleport crossup.

    Also, I've been using single hk bomb alot for better neutral recovery then I charge mp item, double jump around and stuff and try to come down on their head with an assist or something...


    Also been using a HELLUVA LOT of pbgc mp bang... So good.
     
  19. ninja-nutria

    ninja-nutria Solopeacock is legit.

    Location:
    Tampico, Mexico.
    Steam:
    ninja-nutria
    PSN:
    ninja-nutria
    Peacock
    Peacock
    Peacock
    just be careful in the corners with pressure they can easily jump mp bang im looning at you filia
     
  20. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    Qft.

    I just think it works so well because people don't really expect peacock to be pbgcing anything... But I find that when the chips are down, this definitely comes in handy.
     
  21. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Here's a few questions concerning certain teams.

    Which is worse in your opinion?

    Filia with hornet bomber or Double with hairball?
    Cerebella with hairball or Filia with Lock'n'load/Cerecopter?
    Filia with napalm pillar/shot or Parasoul with updo/hairball?
    Painwheel with Peacock s.hp/george/bang bang bang or Peacock with pinion dash?
    Painwheel with hairball or Fillia with pinion dash?


    In essence, a snap in scenario.
     
  22. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

    Location:
    West Canada
    Steam:
    Skarmand
    PSN:
    Skarmand
    Robo Fortune
    Double
  23. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Well considering the thread I thought everyone would realize I meant facing those teams with Peacock. Who would you prioritize killing? It's very relevant to the discussion because the order heavily affects how you would play the neutral game.
     
  24. Liam

    Liam ... Administrator

    Location:
    West Canada
    Steam:
    Skarmand
    PSN:
    Skarmand
    Robo Fortune
    Double
    I really didn't get that impression at all. If you're going to go for a snap though, I'd get Doubles Hornet Bomber out of the picture as fast as possible, then Updo, and Napalm pillar last since you have time act before the explosion sometimes. So if I had to put it in an order, Snap in Double, then Filia, and lastly Parasoul.
    With those 3 out of the way there aren't too many assists that you need to watch for besides maybe Lock N Load.

    As a Peacock player though, answering your set of scenarios, how I would personally do it if I really wanted to snap for some reason:
    1: Snap in Double, Play against Double with Hairball
    2: Don't snap, fight Cerebella with Hairball
    3: Depends on who you're best at fighting. Getting Filia out of the way early prevents her from coming in with lots of meter for Fenrir and Gregor.
    4: I wouldn't snap, Peacock shouldn't be hard to kill if she has no assist. Even though Painwheel isn't a good assist for her anyways. Peacock anchor (Second character) isn't so great since she doesn't have anything to deal with pressure and resets. (Low hitstop supers, and bad reversal options, MPGun can get baited pretty hard)
    5: I don't think Hairball is enough of a threat to snap in and waste the meter on. So don't snap?

    Both 1, 2, 5, could be different if it was Updo instead of Hairball, Hairball doesn't give me much trouble as an assist when I'm playing Peacock.

    You might find it's better a different way though if you're more fond of Zoning as Peacock
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  25. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    One thing I think is important to make note of is the different zones on the screen.

    Range 1: In your face. From about jab range to Parasoul's cr mk range. IMO this is Peacock's second best position to be in neutral because she can force opponents out with a well timed push block and/or bomb or escape from them the easiest when they do something that's negative with the exception of Valentine, Fillia, and Painwheel. With those 3, it's hard to fight them off because they have a lot of safe anti-push block strings (esp with lock down or forward moving assists) and tight high low mixups/pressure. However, since you don't have to move forward too much to attack your opponent, a gdo (george's day out) will give you an edge to start a pressure game and long as you keep ending your strings with it you can keep the pressure up. They won't think to even dp you until you're on your third block string (usually). So study up on Mr. Pecks rush down videos to take advantage of everything available to you. Gdo is +2 and won't push your opponent too far so won't have to chase them far enough to lose your advantage as long as your strings move you forward a few inches. Throws need to be mixed in here somewhere.

    Range 2: Just outside of normal range, right around where the round starts. A hop, skip and instant airdash away. IMO Peacock's absolute worst range. Airshow is worthless, George's day out is easily jumpable, Bang Bang Bang is lulz worthy. If your opponent has any air footsies they'll be hard to air grab, which I feel is your best option at this point, but only if you set them up while at range 3. Most opponents feel compelled to jump at you from this range, especially if you toss out George while they're in range 3. They'll learn not to jump at you after one or two air grabs unless you have something in their way. Expect a titan knuckle from opportunistic Cerebella players. If your opponent likes jumping or airdashing in with heavy attacks, a well placed j. lp will keep them honest (j. mp if it's Cerebella, practice your confirms off of both attacks). If they jump or airdash with light attacks...rip rip rip. Let's hope they didn't call an assist so you can teleport out.

    Range 3: Outside of airdash range until the screen starts to zoom out. A relatively safe range, but this is the most critical. You can react to anything an opponent does and vice versa. Parasoul can dash jump at you from here and will go right between airshow and gdo, even with the buff. She's not the only one either, but other characters move in with other options. A smart Cerebella will use reflector if you're getting reckless with projectiles here so be ready to fake teleport. Light teleport will get you out of a few tricky situations in between the short and long end of this range. It's kind of hard to spell out the exact situations though. It usually involves you being plus but there's an assist flying at you. If you're back is against the wall, now's a good time to toss a couple of bombs and teleport. Fore safety I recommend gdo and boxcar since your opponent will most likely jump or aridash forward and won't have time to punish the teleport. Otherwise, I say go for gdo -> airshow so if they block airshow and fall on your teleport, gdo will be coming to bail you out. If you time it well, however, you'll be at advantage and start either a combo or pressure until gdo gives you an opportunity to back off and start zoning some more. I need a bomb pattern to use at this range so I can get where I want and keep the advantage without having to go in first.

    Range 4: Full screen zoomed out. Peacock's obvious dominant range. Go ham. Don't miss inputs and the match is yours. Exceptions, Valentine and Painwheel. Heavy shadow if your opponent sucks at movement. Medium shadow if they don't and hold them for ransom at range 2 or 3, however far they can get with the bombs you already put on screen.


    As many opponents end up in different zones of the screen how do you guys like to change your strategy? What two bomb strategies work at whet ranges?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  26. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    You think Peacock is worst at round start?
     
  27. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Round start is Peacock's worst range. If you're not trying to make space at this point, something is wrong.
     
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  28. POS Industries

    POS Industries Starring Glenn Close as POS Industries

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    Something Something POS Industries
    PSN:
    POSIndustries
    XBL:
    EG Wazzler #Coppa
    It's definitely why I feel Peacock is strongest as a second character in a trio. Start the round with a good point character and then DHC into Argus at the right opportunity, and now Peacock is in her ideal position to control the rest of the match.
     
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  29. RemiKz

    RemiKz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Norcal
    Steam:
    remikz_
    PSN:
    RemiKz_
    Peacock
    Filia
    Cerebella
    My problem with not having peacock on point is that I feel like she gets smothered into a mixup too easily on incoming if the point character gets taken out. With Filia second, I at least have air gregor that the opponent has to respect.

    That and, with Filia second, I can pretty much always get some space by throwing out updo at the start lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  30. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band

    Oh my god, yes. The only reason your opponent won't start trying to maul you from the get go is if you have a dp assist or they know you'll throw george in their face if they come in too low. Once the match has started and they're already moving, nothing good comes from that range.

    Incoming mixups can be a pain, but if they don't pan out you can usually fall on them with j.lk. It's a nightmare against Fillia, Painwheel, and Valentine though. The best way to decide if you want to deal with the mixup or deal with round start is to check their assist and plan accordingly. I'll put point Peacock against Fillia and Painwheel any day of the week because Painwheel is slow and Fillia's iad can be stuffed any number of ways. Valentine though? Unless she's using Cerecopter, I'd rather take the mixup and hope she does something unsafe or at least a bit minus, though tbh I'd rather just kill her with somebody else and avoid the matchup entirely.
     
  31. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Round start spacing and being cornered are by far peacocks worst spacings. Peacock second has to deal with terrible incoming mixups... Which funnily enough she handles pretty easily with the threat of double jump..

    It's when she lands after the first incoming mixup occurs, that makes her incoming so shit. Cause then, she is at her worst spacing generally which is opponent in front of her point blank, with her back to the corner. ...she's going to get opened up.

    I used peacock second all throughout sde so i have experience with her in that position.

    In sde, I wouldn't say that her best position was absolute fullscreen... More like one step closer than that cause at fullscreen her hk George wouldn't hit grounded opponents... But in encore that is no longer a problem with homing George, so she's better in that respect.

    Imo
     
  32. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Eh, Peacock second on a trio backed by an invincible assist is definitely her best position. When your main goal at the start of the round vs everybody is to make space, you have no business starting the round imo. You need a character who can pressure at the start, then get Peacock in on a tag/DHC to control the match.

    I like putting her third though, behind a character with a strong reversal super. That way if I have the advantage and get a kill, I can tag in Peacock and play with two assists. If I lose the point, I have strong super into safe DHC for a reversal. Also, giving her s.hp or George's Day Out as both strong assists and strong alpha counters helps too.

    Honestly, I think her absolute best positions are:
    1. Long range, where she can set up items and force you to work around them, potentially leading to greater damage (zoning game).
    2. Close range, backed by at least one George and a held M SOID. Here, she can work behind a projectile for cover, and also has another projectile that she can use for additional pressure. Bonus points if you have an assist that lets you keep the opponent locked down while you call another George/SOID.
    Absolute worst range is mid with no tools available (like at the start of a round) or close range on defense, with tools available (like getting rushed down).
     
  33. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I disagree. Peacock in the second position is way to easily mixed up with incoming mixups. And she's terrible in the corner as well. That HAS to be taken into account.

    However, its... Situational. If she is able to come in at second, with frame advantage. Then it's a great position for her... Cause it doesn't have any weaknesses.

    But that is an objective strategy. And as an objective strategy, it is no better than starting out at the beginning of the round on point, which is also an objective: to gain space safely and charge an item. Once she's done that her objective can be said to have been accomplished. She's established neutral and has threats on the screen via charging items and/or bombs.


    And also remember that if she's so bad at starting cause of having no projectiles out... Well the same thing happens if she gets snapped in or if (much more likely) she gets brought in via the first character dying.

    As it is right now, peacock doesn't really have a perfect/best position. It largely relies upon the players preferences, she has huge holes to film in her game no matter which position no matter the size, team she plays on.


    Also remember that the primary reason to bring peacock in from second is to dhc to kill, or to dhc somewhat safely into bomb.

    The dhc into kill is good, as is the dhc into bomb. But a question remains that I was never able to satisfactorily answer:


    When is a good time to dhc her in if my current character is comboing the opponent, then that character can said to be doing good, and switching them out doesn't make much sense. If they are doing bad, then dhc into peacock is good... But has to be engineered... And isn't always successful and doesn't leave peacock at anywhere near prefferred ranges... Usually.

    The way the team generally tends to work is point gets killed, peacock gets mixed up and killed on incoming, double or filia now have to try to do it all on there own, hopefully with the opponent having a smaller amount of meter for using it to kill my first2 characters.... OR:


    Point character goes on rampage, peacock isn't ever really needed to come into the game except as a late game dhc to finish off or bridge to another dhc...

    Generally speaking the primary way this team does well while peacock sees actual point play, is to dhc to peacock at not needed times, simply to get her in the game... Which can be dubious cause why dhc her out if the point character doing well?


    All in all I just found peacock second to be a great team on paper... Not so much at the board. Her weakness to incoming was way to glaring for me.


    -edit

    I will however say that this is with painwheel point.. Point painwheel my be uniquely situated as a very bad lead in for peacock second. Cause if point painwheel hits she's not going to generally worry about dhcing... She's just going to reset into kills or blocked into trying to get hits...

    It with other characters in from such as fortune... Then perhaps peacock second does make sense
    Since many of fortunes combos don't do the greatest of damage depending on starter, plus a character like fortune can play the take your time at neutral game much better than painwheel, and painwheel not having the best early game neutral, might be a bad lead in for peacock.... Kind of an all or nothing team like I described. And fortune having much better reversals in the air and on the ground most of which are super easy to hitconfirm into bomb on block or argus on hit... Yeah I can see this team being good.


    But yeah I was talking about the pw I front team... So I guess maybe I'm just wrong cause I'm looking at it from the wrong character on point, point of view.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  34. POS Industries

    POS Industries Starring Glenn Close as POS Industries

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    Something Something POS Industries
    PSN:
    POSIndustries
    XBL:
    EG Wazzler #Coppa
    The way I look at it as far as my team goes, I have Val on point to be an expendable opener who has better tools at the start of the match so that I can either ideallyDHC into Argus to get Peacock the positioning she needs to really go to work or, if things go south, have Peacock come in with meter if Val gets killed without Val's death crippling my usual gameplan.

    If I can OCV a whole team with Val, so be it, but there's going to be a lot of opportunities to just scalpels into argus when I need to, so I've definitely been finding it a much more comfortable arrangement than point Peacock.
     
  35. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band

    Have you tried using j.hk and air dash canceling it after that double jump on incoming? I forget to use j.k so often, but when I remember to use it, things just go so well.

    As far as your team building dilemma, just because you have a combo doesn't mean that your point character is doing well. Sometimes your point character is getting mauled so you just need to confirm a simple combo into super so you can dhc. Every combo doesn't lead to a reset and even then, there are risks involved when going for a reset. Then there's alpha counters in to super and the likes. There's plenty of ways and reasons to get Peacock in from position 2.
     
  36. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    On incoming, you don't have an invincible air super. Meaning, you will get slapped out of the air if you try any of this. Good incoming mix-ups involve a mix of cross-ups with invincible assist/move you have to block, air throws and air-to-air to tag you if you hit any buttons. Peacock has no good answers for incoming.

    Yeah, I agree with Dime that Peacock is weak second if you lose the point, which is why I run her third for the safe DHC/raw tag in. But in an ideal world where your point never dies, Peacock second is best. If you're planning for every possible scenario though, Peacock third behind a second character with a strong super is best. Starting first is pretty much starting at an immediate disadvantage, even with an invincible assist.
     
  37. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    None of those strategies that you are pointing to are any kind of "solid" they are objective, situational and mainly may not come up but once very 3 games or even less.

    Ac to argus is kinda bad cause argus has no hitstop invincibilty and the opponent can just super your super on reaction. Also, you have to block to ac... Can't count on blocking cause blocking is bad... And if you try to setup a block... That's even more dubious... Put your character in harms way for no good reason.

    As far as dhc out when the point is wounded... Yes obviously. But every character has that. That isn't a pint in peacocks favor... It's like saying that peacock has normals and specials so that's a point in her favor for her to be ..... Anchor. Or second. Or point.

    In real sg those times where your character is gravely wounded, and hits a combo and can dhc out... Are kinda few and far between. But yes in the situations that they happen... Then always dhc out.

    This applies to every character in the game though.

    And your last point "every combo doesn't lead to a reset"

    Yes, actually, they all do. For every character if you know what you are doing. No not every combo ENDS in a reset. But not every combo ends in a dhc either so... Idk.

    But as I've stated, many/most of my points are based on pw point where many of these secondary character weaknesses may well be exacerbated.
     
  38. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    PW -> Peacock is pretty bad, yeah. Peacock -> PW is actually really good now though.
     
  39. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    Im not disagreeing to disagree, I'm just not seeing it so could you enlighten me why peacock>pw is good?

    There is little to no dhc synergy save for maybe pw lvl 3 after argus? Haven't checked that out actually.

    Or there is perhaps bomb>install?

    Painwheels assist don't seem to do anything particularly great for peacock either. Mp stinger is a good tertiary assist... But sucks as a standalone assist. Hk buer is just... Idk I don't like it and then there maybe pinion dash? Meh don't like any of those either.

    So I don't know where that team would be good with the exception of some overhyped install combo... Which is meh to me as well since characters like Bella and double do it so much better...
     
  40. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    C.mp is good as an alpha counter and lock-down for Peacock pressure, two meter and you have MP Bang xx Argus Beam Only xx Install as a solid reversal on block (I want to try raw Lenny and see if that has enough hit-stop to go directly into Install) which is second only to Cat Heads imo of great on-block DHC options, Argus xx Level 3 as possibly the best DHC out of zoning Argus I've ever seen (from zoning Peacock directly into PW damage & pressure). It's not amazing compared to some teams, but it has good points and is easily better than PW -> Peacock imo (No on block DHC is really safe, nothing too amazing with the dhc synergy, PW can already put projectiles on screen and move behind them).

    So, if you have them in a team of three, you want Peacock -> PW over PW -> Peacock.
     
    Dime likes this.

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