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Silent Dolphin's Schizophrenia (Training Thread)

Sydoh

Sydoh

Silent Dolphin
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Sydoh
PSN
worldjem7
Ms. Fortune
Team History in order of main usage

Vanilla
Solo Fortune
Fortune/Double

SDE/MDE
Peacock/Filia/Fortune

Encore
Peacock/Fukua/Filia

2nd Encore
Fukua/Filia
OR
Filia/Fukua/??
Fukua/??/Filia
??/Fukua/Filia


Solid Mains
Fukua/Filia

Current characters I am dabbling/have dabbled in that I could potentially pick up fully:
Valentine
Cerebella
Robo Fortune
Ms. Fortune
Parasoul

Characters I'm not good with or am generally disinterested in, but might explore based on advice
Double
Eliza
Beowulf
Painwheel
Big Band

Characters I don't like or have dropped:
Squigly
Peacock

Some history/Reasoning:
No one really struck me when I first picked up the game. I tried everyone. Painwheel and Cerebella felt too slow, Double just seemed weird, I didn't like charge moves with Parasoul, I didn't like how slow Val's normals felt, Filia didn't really feel right, and Peacock was too stiff and ground-based, so I kind of "settled" on Fortune as the lesser of all evils, however, that's not to say I didn't find her fun. Also, because she was so much better then, it kind of mitigated my bad play and made her seem more fun. lol I picked up Double a little while later once I felt comfortable with Fortune for a similar reason but I had less genuine interest in her, so I ended up dropping her.

Peacock and Filia felt stiff and weird in Vanilla; the main reasons of which were: Peacock didn't have bomb cancels, Filia didn't have hairball cancels, and the hitstun hurtboxes were not standardized so combos were also a lot weirder. Once Peacock got the bomb cancels and Filia got hairball cancels, they seemed more fun so I picked them up for SDE and ran with Peacock/Filia/Fortune for the rest of SDE and MDE until Fortune got nerfed, and Fukua was released. Then I ran Peacock/Fukua/Filia up until now.

Fukua is the first character I genuinely fell in love with. I just find all her stuff so cool; she was the character I was looking for.
I grew to like Filia more as time went on also and by now I feel pretty comfortable with her and find her very fun.

Now, I think I want to finally drop Peacock because I feel like I have to rework my team to complement Peacock in order to use her well, and I don't want to give up Filia/Fukua, so instead I'm giving up Peacock and looking for a 3rd.



Duo Fil/Fuk is pretty good on its own, and I could probably get pretty far with that, but I like having 2 different assists to work with for different situations. I like having that versatility. I'm willing to go duo for comfort or match-up reasons, though.

I know I want to play Fukua/Filia in some order, so instead of building a team to revolve around a character, I'm looking for a character that can fit in my team and complement it. Recently, point Fukua feels pretty good, and I think I would like to keep it that way, so I'd prefer Filia on either mid or anchor, but I'm not entirely opposed to having Filia or the mystery 3rd on point if it ends up working out better.

Apparently, I am more of a rushdown style player, although I am not afraid to back off and lame it out when necessary (and sometimes for fun). I like harassing from a distance, but I don't think I'm cut out for full-on zoning.

I have been trying out different combinations like:

Fukua/Robo/Filia
Bella/Fukua/Filia
Fortune/Fukua/Filia

And more recently, Fukua/Valentine/Filia which I think Val is starting to grow on me in a way that has never happened before. Maybe it's just because the game is faster? I dunno. She has better shuriken angles now which was one of my main issues with her aside from slow normals, and counter got buffed.


I will accept any kind of advice, of course, but the main thing I'm looking at right now is solidifying who I want to play and work on.

For general things I need to improve on, this is what I know:
Execution in general
Not trying to reversal in PBGC early
Getting more used to Land Canceling and using it to punish things more
Matchup knowledge vs the DLC characters
Getting new/different mixups/setups/resets for each of my characters to use in more situations.
Bad habits/predictability
 
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I'm interested in how you feel about Robo, because,

"I like harassing from a distance, but I don't think I'm cut out for full-on zoning."

From what I know about Robo, or at least how I would want to play her, this sounds like Robo.
I'll post something more thought out next time, but it's late, so I thought I'd just drop this question/comment for now.

Good luck!
 
Fukua point: fukua/filia/bella.

Bella's assist complement both characters. Fukua's assist accomplishes good roles on their own. Copter for oki reasons and h lnl for a meatshield.

Drill for restands and horizontal pressure.
M shadow for neutral and resets.

Filia is best at 2nd. Anchor filia is why. Fukua with a shit ton of meter on anchor is fine. You just need to be slightly good on defense for incoming. Its better to have a character with actual neutral tools than a pixie fighting against a character with good neutral tools.

If you run filia point you need m shadow. Drill doesnt cover the area that m shadow can provide. If you choose robo you can use drill then.

If you decide to use parasoul then

Parasoul/filia/fukua
or
fukua/filia/parasoul

The former can use drill or m shadow the latter obviously for zoning and stuff. Drill providing pressure and positioning.
bella point is like why. Tho it can work if you use bella/filia/ fukua
with using h drill since bella has huge air normals to combat air space. Theres more to this but i'm on my phone
 
worldjem said:
Characters I don't like or have dropped:
Peacock
You're dead to me



Nah for real though, I agree with gllt. Based on your description of what you like to do in video game I think Robo-Fortune (now with a hyphen as of this morning) is your character.

Whatever you end up going with though, even if long term you see your third character as middle or anchor, I'd recommend running them on point a lot. You get a better feel for a character that way, it'll be easier to figure out if you like them or not.
 
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Robo
Beams seem too committal for me. She is more of a zoner than people give her credit for and you would need to build a team around supporting her zoning. She has no reversal options outside of 5HP and can't really poke all that well with her normals. She has good pressure and offense, but then, who doesn't?

Parasoul
I'd rather have her on point because I hate her incoming. She has no options to use on incoming. I might have her anchor just so I can DHC into her if my point dies and I'm left with XX/Para.

Bella
Prefer her point because she is slow and would rather have the assist pressure for her. I'm not fond of the idea, but I guess I could try her anchor? I also seem to get beat out a lot whenever I try to space j.MP. It's not as good a jump-in as I thought it was.

Filia Anchor
- Threaten air gregor on incoming
- Threaten reversals in general as filia
- Updo assist helps first 2 characters who have poorer defense
- I feel comfortable with anchor filia
She doesn't have the amazing neutral pokes that other characters have, but she has a strong defensive presence that I appreciate and she can still manage in neutral by weaving through zoning and using footsies and ringlet poke to get in.

Fukua
Don't like how susceptible she is to throws in terms of being an anchor and would rather have her with updo or at least a neutral-supporting assist to help them not get in on Fukua.

Based on my reaction to your comments, I'm looking for one of 3 combinations, essentially:
Fil/Fuk/??
Fuk/??/Fil
??/Fuk/Fil

Filia Assist would be Updo, or Hairball if I have an alternative.
Fukua assist would generally be Drill H, but could be any shadow or dart depending on the team.
 
maybe try Val+Fil (updo) + Fuk (M shadow/drill) ?

Fukua aint the greatest anchor but you could get her in easily since her DHC's are great.
Also I always thought your Fortune was one of your better characters. And fortune is definitely more rushdown heavy than Val is. So Fort+Fil+Fuk ?

Duo is pretty strong in the meta right now but yeah, I don't really do well with duo's either.


Or you could just be a counterpicker. Play your Peacock team against everything, but switch if you're fighting a match you don't like peacock in.
 
Actually, I was trying out Val/Fuk/Fil and Fuk/Val/Fil this evening at my weekly and for some reason I am liking val now even though I never really liked her before.
 
I think your Val has potential and her assists make your Fukua/Filia scarier. Not sure about the order though but like we said yesterday you can just change it up depending on the MU, since all your chars are not bad at any position
 
I don't think it's abnormal at all to suddenly like a character you didn't like before. I've done it a lot. Val is definitely a lot of fun. I hope you have good luck with her. I like that team.
 
Thanks, gllt!

After playing yesterday at the newly revived TOSG monthlies, I've found that I need to pick low shadow specifically for armoured assists vs Peacock.

Having that assist beat the armoured move clean is just way too useful for getting in as it negates the effectiveness the Peacock is trying to use.

The only problem is deciding what assist Val should use. If I have low shadow on Fukua, I don't really need 2MK on Val and have 2 low assists. Not sure if I should go with Bypass H or throw.

Also, a good tip to know is to tap the assist while they are in recovery as it will force the assist to leave sooner and will stop acting like a wall. Generally while rising or falling, do a light to tap it.
 
2MK, low, lockdown, multihit
Throw, crumple, gimmicky but better than most gimmicks?

sMK, lockdown, multihit, might break some armor?
sHP, ???, I've actually seen more than one person use this in my life not counting me now, gimmicky? kara period from alpha counters?

Dead Cross, ehhh projectile? Dunno, maybe it'd be useful for Filia or Fukua somehow
Vial Load, resources, can never hit the opponent with it

sMP1, pseudo-lockdown?, might break some armor?
Mort Drop, command grab, decent range, decent startup, gimmicky?

Bypasses (Usually H), strong combo extenders, high damage, good at spacing out on block for zoning (Fukua?), no idea how to incorporate them into Filia/Fukua routes, might open up a slew of reset setups though? Stays in the opponent's face and pushes herself and the opponent fullscreen, meaning you must protect her from that range if you choose to do that (Darts? Ringlet at the right spacing?)

That's all that comes to mind. I've ran two low assists before if one of them was my point character's.
 
gllt said:
sHP, ???, I've actually seen more than one person use this in my life not counting me now, gimmicky? kara period from alpha counters?

people always laugh at me for using it :(
but i like it tho :^P
 
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The cool thing about Vial Load is that because it never hits, you can use it infinite times in a combo.
So you can get Val in with a level 3 vial.

5MK sounds interesting for lockdown. It does have pretty decent range.

Preferably, I'd want to help cover the air a bit because low shadow is replacing the medium shadow. Closest thing I can think of is Val 5HK. It doesn't have the same kind of range, but it could work?

Filia with 2 low assists is the main issue.
 
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I also figure alpha counter into countervenom might be worth three meters at some point? Also, it would only require one vial load.

I'm not sure about 5HK, I mean, I tossed it away a long time ago, as I do with a lot of moves that hit multiple times, but not as an assist, yet I mentioned 5MP above..
But 5HK hitboxes are -insane- so if that first hit is really good, why the hell not?

Okay according to the val hitboxes thr- YEAH THATS KINDA NICE.

..YEAH.
 
After playing Pet, I am convinced that Eliza is god tier in SG. I tried to gregor his air reset and eliza was too high to get hit, but low enough for the throw to hit if I didn't.

Her ridiculous air presence makes me want to land cancel her stuff, but then because her throw range is ridiculous, I become predictable and she just airthrows me.

Staying on the ground lets her pressure you with assist call + IAD w/e.

Feels like she has a 3-way mixup at any point in time she's not at full screen vs you and is pretty much safe on everything she does and it's all auto-frametraps.

Someone help me.
 
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For eliza you may want an assist that covers the air space. Which m shadow provides.

The key to beating eliza is to beat her at neutral. When she's blocking she pretty much loses.

Iad grab is rough tho
 
People just suck at playing against her; once people have figured out how to handle her stuff she will drop down to Top5-7

Real answer: Her IAD stuff is honestly the lesser evil; it has hurtboxes everywhere and you "just" need a read on it and act accordingly.

With Filia, I found sHK to be very useful in neutral against ad happy Elizas. It covers both her relatively slow ad approaches and cLK attempts

Her offence is obviously insane but I mean you play Filia~

It comes down to taking questionable guesses in neutral (as her neutral is superior to yours, so you have to take risks to beat it), landing a hit, and then never letting go (her defence after being hit once is rather awful)

Without more specific questions than "She does all the things and everything is safe and unbeatable", helping is pretty hard
 
worldjem said:
After playing Pet, I am convinced that Eliza is god tier in SG. I tried to gregor his air reset and eliza was too high to get hit, but low enough for the throw to hit if I didn't.

Her ridiculous air presence makes me want to land cancel her stuff, but then because her throw range is ridiculous, I become predictable and she just airthrows me.

Staying on the ground lets her pressure you with assist call + IAD w/e.

Feels like she has a 3-way mixup at any point in time she's not at full screen vs you and is pretty much safe on everything she does and it's all auto-frametraps.

Someone help me.


You may have different experiences and I really hate Eliza personally, but I've had some good success against her by controlling the ground with long range yet high hitting threats (specifically hornet bomber assist) it covers her angles well and she doesn't easily get over it. Of course she has ways of dealing with it but I find that that assist can make her predictable and give me counterplay as per the places she has to be to deal with it.

If you don't use hornet bomber at all, then a different assist or point move that controls around about the same space can probably work well.

Armor also works well against her. So robo fortune st.hp can be of use. Especially with the built in option select that it grants (upback plus HP does a jhp if Eliza did a ground throw, but If Eliza does a ground string then the armor attack comes out instead cause of the fact that ground normals force grounded)


Eliza's a tough nut to crack any way it goes :(
 
IsaVulpes said:
People just suck at playing against her; once people have figured out how to handle her stuff she will drop down to Top5-7

No she wont. She will always be top 3
 
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IsaVulpes said:
People just suck at playing against her; once people have figured out how to handle her stuff she will drop down to Top5-7
Peacock ain't got shit on Eliza, get outta here. Either way, snark is not helping.

IsaVulpes said:
Real answer: Her IAD stuff is honestly the lesser evil; it has hurtboxes everywhere and you "just" need a read on it and act accordingly.

With Filia, I found sHK to be very useful in neutral against ad happy Elizas. It covers both her relatively slow ad approaches and cLK attempts

Her offence is obviously insane but I mean you play Filia~

It comes down to taking questionable guesses in neutral (as her neutral is superior to yours, so you have to take risks to beat it), landing a hit, and then never letting go (her defence after being hit once is rather awful)
How is her IAD stuff the "lesser" evil? What does she have that's better?
It's her IAD stuff that is the most trouble.

However, the 5HK comment did help, and I think I have an idea on how to fight her a bit better in neutral.

All 3 of my characters have a move that moves them backward a bit before hitting. I'm thinking of doing Val 5HP, Fil/Fuk 5HK when I think she will IAD to step back and use Assist + Projectile.

I also might want to change my assists a bit. I already have Shadow M, but Dart H has longer range and I might try filia hairball and Val 5HK or Val 5MK.
If I can at least trade with Fil/Fuk 5HK, I will be able to contest her neutral and get in a bit easier.

Also, Filia's offense is way less safe than Eliza's.

I think the way to play neutral vs Eliza is to not jump because her IAD j.MK is ridiculous, and her air throw is ridiculous. Her ground normals are much less scary by comparison, so if I can force her to the ground, it will be a lot easier to fight her.

@Dime_x I'm not using any of the characters you mentioned, so I can't use any of that, but thanks anyway.
 
worldjem said:
Peacock ain't got shit on Eliza, get outta here.
Ye she does

How is her IAD stuff the "lesser" evil? What does she have that's better?
Dominating neutral control with DP, Couch, Horus, Sekhmet, sHP, sMP which stops you from ever pressing anything (including assists)

If she was just "IAD jMK the character", you could handle her the same way one handles Filia:
- Read she is going in, push a basic decently fast button, beat out whatever she pressed, combo; Or block+assistcall delay move in; or whatever really
Instead, Upperkhat alone shuts down all of this - it's an invincible Ringlet, with meterless conversions, that is safe if it hits an assist, can(and will) lead to happy birthdays, and got a much bigger hitbox.

Similarly, if her offensive pressure was just IAD jLK, it wouldn't be too scary; but it's rising jLK/jHP ad jLK/jHP/Airthrow with Sekhmet Couch Horus and DP+Assist thrown in

use Assist + Projectile.
I don't feel any of Dart/Ringlet/Shadow do much to Liza; dunno about Shuriken but I doubt that too

I was referring to hitting with the sHK, which is simple to confirm into Gregor.. and then you have to win right there.

Dart H
I feel this assist is super shit but shrug

I think the way to play neutral vs Eliza is to not jump because her IAD j.MK is ridiculous, and her air throw is ridiculous. Her ground normals are much less scary by comparison, so if I can force her to the ground, it will be a lot easier to fight her.
The way I play against Eliza is to stick at midrange, block/jumpblock until she either does a thing that puts her at frame disadvantage (eg DP) or I have a read and then go in hard
This has some issues with handling sHP and a bunch of assists + of course puts out a certain risk of being airthrown, but that is to me the least evil
 
Played a big set vs @mcpeanuts. Final score overall was 24-21 for him.


I think I know what I need to do, but am welcome to critique.
 
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I did a set with SwiftFox-Dash and managed to scrape some wins.


I need to get into the habit of blocking his obvious stuff like

2LK > throw
j.HP + assist
one other thing I forget right now

He did those pretty much every time.
 
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How do I beat runaway with rushdown characters?
 
you push them to the corner and wait for them to make a mistake
 
Savage. I don't think I ever did scratch my last post don't listen to me
6897.jpg
 
What if it's parasoul/Peacock/Bella and he just spaces things and makes a wall?
 
Walls are meant to be broken and every wall has a hole in it. And if your talking about lawnba you need to bait pillar and bait m bang and bait throw
 
how does baiting a reversal help with getting past a wall lol
 
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The only way I can beat runaway is with zoning because it then forces them to come to me.
 
Then you should learn to rush down correctly. baiting beats a wall because once you reach the source what can you do?
 
@worldjem

Simple. when you land the hit on lawnba snap in bella, Succesfully kill bella. and you kill the wall essentially.

Lnl has a ton of start up but combined with the tears you need to be careful. Super jump at the right time and land your hits.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
@worldjem

Simple. when you land the hit on lawnba snap in bella, Succesfully kill bella. and you kill the wall essentially.

Lnl has a ton of start up but combined with the tears you need to be careful. Super jump at the right time and land your hits.
Well, that's what I tried doing, also, but easier said than done.
 
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