Sinclairs Training Diary

[Sinclair]

Hello, this is going to be my training diary.
I really want to get better, and I have been playing super casual ever since I got the game, until a few months ago.

I want to improve and feel comfortable with the way I play. i sometimes get frustrated by the stupid shit I do, which ends up with me losing a match.

If I had to put it short: I have horrible habits that I want to unlearn, and I only know a handful about the mechanics of the game.
With this I mean, I never knew that Eliza's Throne of Isis went through projectiles, or that Rfortunes landmines break armor.

I'd love to get better, ive met a lot of very nice people in this community who helped me A LOT.

Characters I play and why:

• Rfortune: I feel comfortable with her zoning, I feel most confident playing her. I know some burst baits and resets. People say I play her correctly.
• Eliza: I picked her up recently and despite playing Valentine since I got the game, i feel more in control during a match when I play Eliza. Sekhmet and her HUGE air throw hit box help me an awful lot. Since i'm an awful jumper (I jump so much, its a horrible habit) using her special overheads and big hit boxes tend to save my match.
• Valentine: I played her since the beginning. I enjoy playing her sometimes but i don't feel like i'll go far with her. People said my pressure with her is okay (Mixed with H beam and H osiris.) I'm honestly thinking of dropping her. I hate getting into people faces and since my defense sucks, it makes me feel uncomfortable to get this close to opponents.
• Double: I find her resets and all super easy, only thing i hate about her is how slow she is. I feel very unsafe playing her, but she goes great with my H beam assist. (H hornet bomber goes well with my robo)

Yes:

• I think I have a nice neutral overal, esp with Robo.
• My pressure is pretty good
• I adapt pretty fast against players, altho with defensive players (Usually Painwheel players and zoning Fukuas/RFortunes) this gets kinda hard for me.
• ????
• yeah

NO:

• I jump an awful lot
• I always air-dash when its unsafe to do, My brain is telling me "this is the fastest way to beat them up" this also adds to #3
• I'm Impatient as fuck, if i'm not playing Rfortune (or i play against a super defensive player) I go head on trying to punch their ass. Later on I find out it would perhaps been better to just stay patient and do as much neutral as possible
• Dead ass not pbgcing....

Some matches:

I'll try to update this with more matches where i'm getting my ass handed to me so people can critique me.

Do note, i'm dropping val. Her play style doesn't fit me and i hate getting really close to people :( So i'll probably not update my progress with her!
I've taken a huge liking in Double. She fits very well with Rfortunes H beam assist (As you can see, cool h beam and cilia slide starter in the video if my opponent wants to jump towards me) And Double's H hornet Bomber goes great with my Rfortune!


I still have no idea HOW to use eliza's H osiris Spiral when im playing r fortune..idk when to use it unless its as an anti-air or corner pressure @__@

Idk what to add more, i'll update this later :p

 

[Sinclair]

I didn't add which resets I use, would be cool if you guys could help me!
With eliza i use MP into L sekhmet, Sometimes i do this after horus riiight before they hit the ground. I still dont have the hang in her crossunder which was j.HP IAD j.LP j.HP or something..

For Rfortune i do either j.mp for a crossover or j.mk as an overhead.
Can't really think of anything more atm that i also do

 

[Lex]

You seem to mostly go for grab resets but they'll heavily scale any follow ups so it might be worth going for burst baits or non-throw resets after you've landed a couple as you'll do more damage that way.

As Eliza you don't use her j.MK to poke very much, it's either airdash grab or airdash j.LK, j.HP when they're grounded. j.MK has great range and if you still have an airdash left it leads to easy pressure.
As Double, you mostly used j.MP while in the air. j.MP is a very good button but you might want to consider using j.HP and j.HK more as they are both great at controlling space. Also worth noting that you can fast fall both j.HP and j.MP with j.HK so you can condition the opponent to (push)block all three hits of j.HP then start fast falling and doing low/throw to catch them off guard. You also stayed same side every time in your resets as Double in that video and your opponent blocked it every time. Go for the cross up, there's not much reason not to and you get to see if your opponent is paying attention (also use LP instead of cr.LK so that you hit them in the air so they can't access grounded reversals).
I also don't think I saw you do any burst baits and IMO they're a good way of testing your opponent and getting them to respect your resets.

It might be worth watching Sonicfox playing RF/Eliza at Evo last year to see how he played that team.

If you put up more videos in the future, it might be worth trying to go for longer sets vs the same person to give a broader picture of how you played in that matchup.

As for resets, I only play Double (and Val, but you're dropping her :( ) so here are a few resets:
-HK, j.MP, j.HK. This lets you do cross up twice or air throw (j.HP also works and is a bit more ambigious but you don't get double cross under or airthrow).
-HK, j.HP, j.HK j.HP/airthrow. A very good airthrow/burst 50/50
-HK, j.LK (2), J.MK, j.HK (corner). This is one of Double's few resets in the corner that lets her cross under
-HK, j.LP, j.MK, j.HK, barrel, low/throw. Pretty well known reset so I don't use it much but it is a nice easy one that can catch people unawares.
-slide, MKx2, cr.HP, Flesh step, j.LP/LK, j.MK (1), j.HK fast fall. This lets you cross under or you could do a burst bait
-cr.HP, Flesh step + assist. You tried this one against Ooga but miss timed it. It is also worth noting that if you do this with H beam that if they crouch block then the beam will miss them and you'll be negative (think it is ~6 on hit)

For Eliza and RF you can check their resets threads if you want to learn some more resets.

Hope that helps.

 

[Sinclair]

As Eliza you don't use her j.MK to poke very much, it's either airdash grab or airdash j.LK, j.HP when they're grounded. j.MK has great range and if you still have an airdash left it leads to easy pressure.

Thank you! i'll keep that in mind! I feel like i'm way too predictable sometimes.

You also stayed same side every time in your resets as Double in that video and your opponent blocked it every time.

Thats a pretty old video of my double, I tend to do j.mp -> j.HK then dash under them and go for either a low or a high (j.lk) I dont know how to dash under them then air grab them...i've seen a lot of double players doing that but i never manage to do it.

Thank you for the nice list of resets <3 I'll try them out tonight, if i get stuck somewhere i'll just record it and ask why it didn't work.

 

[Sinclair]

Anyone up for a skulldate? ;)
I mean, I need someone to record my matches, my laptop can't handle all the recording at once!! So it would be cool if someone (Preferably with nice ping when it comes to western europe) to play a long set with me.

Also, I've finally accepted double into my team, yet i wonder if it;s better to play her on point or as second character.

Whats better? Rfortune/Double/Eliza or Double/Rfortune/Eliza
I get to zone the fuck out with double as second

 

[gllt]

@Skarmand

Could you offer advice on this team's order?

 

[Sinclair]

ok

this also works while dashing forward
this works better when dashing forward

 

[skull person]

@Skarmand
Could you offer advice on this team's order?

Whats better? Rfortune/Double/Eliza or Double/Rfortune/Eliza
I get to zone the fuck out with double as second

Double point vs: Squigly, Peacock, Fortune, Parasoul.

Squigly:

You can stop Squigly from getting P charge with ground beams, but if you focus on ground beams 100% then she gets free jumps and double jumps towards you.
At some points you'll have to try and make a read or a really fast reaction to her jumps, and if you are wrong on any of those and she stays grounded she'll be able to build a charge.
Once Squigly gets a charge, the next time you take even the slightest break from beams she gets to Sing > Orb you.
She can also just move forward during that break, and as soon as you try and go for any beams she can Sing > Orb you.
If an assist absorbs H Beam, she won't get hit and she gets to Sing > Orb you.
Once you get hit by orb you're in the vortex and you have no reversal so you lost.
Even if you blocked the orb she can call assist and dash back in for more 33/33/33's.
​

Peacock:

Biggest issue with Robo vs Peacock is this bullshit.

So that's the first hitbox of L / M Beam.
That one spawns, which has bad range, and then the second one spawns after that which hits fullscreen.
If that first hitbox hits anything, such as a projectile or another character like an assist, then the second one that hits fullscreen and pierces through everything will not spawn.
This means that if you were trying to knock Peacock out of an attack with an L Beam, but there was an L George at your feet or an assist in front of you, it's impossible.
You'll just hit the L George / Assist in front of you and then the beam will miss Peacock and she gets to hit you with whatever she wants. (Argus)
This makes it really inconsistent to clear the field, and Peacock also gets to Argus Robo a lot which does really good damage, where Robo doesn't get to Argus because hers has insane start up.

Robo + Assist vs Solo Peacock is a little more manageable.​

Parasoul:

Double has a really good (better) MU vs Parasoul than Robo.
Round start vs Parasoul is also notoriously scary for the zoner.
Her dash speed is really good for sticking to you from round start.
She also has an option to beat everything you do at round start that will force you to make a reaction.​

Fortune:

Atm I think this MU is complete bogus but it depends on the skill of the Fortune player.
Fortune has everything she could possibly need to get in.
Double Jump, Airdash, she can Fiber H through beams and even punish H Beam on the way down from H Fiber, then she builds insane meter, does insane damage, and has 5 way mix up so Robo is as good as dead.
Better to play Double vs her.
​

The / My goal for Robo is to never lose neutral, and I find that it's way more work to not lose neutral vs these characters compared to the others on my team, so I don't like to play those with Robo point.
I still play Robo point in casuals most of the time just for the practice even though I lose WAY more.

 

[Sinclair]

@Skarmand
Thank you a lot for your time. I decided that despite robo being my best character, she's better as second!! God, playing her as point is kinda stressful.

I've played against a few people this week and i've learned a lot. Excuse me for the lack of videos.

I have recently found out that i just lack the experience against cerain characters that are played on high level.

Characters fight synopsis:
Big band: I usually know what he WANTS to do, so i respect it. I keep neutral and tend to bait high recovery moves from him. this is easy to do as Rfortune since i have an extremely fast dash (I.E i can punish his lvl 3 on full screen)

Filia: I expect a lot of pressure and overheads. I learned to do pbgc throws/l hornet bomber. Fighting her as robo IS very hard mainly because i have no reversals and i only have a 1 hit armor move to use in the corner.

Beowulf: Like big band, i tend to bait his throws/leaps/blitzer and keep neutral. I find it hard playing against him as Eliza. I fear Beo in the corner when he has his chair.

Painwheel: I don't know how to fight her as Double. I hate good painwheels, but i mostly expect overheads from her. She's easy to fight against as Eliza and Robo. I have issues fighting her as Double despite my slow speed.

Parasoul: My absolute nightmare, my fucking enemy. I think playing @Dr. Oddwin made me realize how deadly she is. I don't know how to get out of her napalm shot spam. I learned to respect her napalm pillar, but its kinda suicide keeping neutral with her.

Fukua: welcome to hell. I can easily keep neutral against her as robo, as her shadows and fireballs can't reach me full screen. I know some mixups with eliza that help me a lot, but again with double: I have no idea.

Squigly; I need to guess al the time, which is hard for me. But it's good for me too since it kinda trains my reaction time. Her mixups kill me. I noticed playing patient and only getting in when i have to works. I can get her out of charges with Eliza's Throne. Yet, keeping neutral with her is dangerous so i don't really know how to fight her unless going HAM with burstbaits and resets. @Smile i think i played a few games against you, and would like to know your opinion on how to approach tthis mix up monster!

Double: The fact that she controls so much space is already offending to me. I don't know where she'll hit me next. Good thing is that ever since i picked her up, i can kinda GUESS what she'll do and block that. Her pressure is really harmful to me.

Eliza: Keep neutral, bait sekhmet. Whenever she jumps i tend to dash under her and go back to fullscreen to keep neutral. as eliza I tried to go ham on resets and mixups. The skeleton scares me a lot. @gllt teached me (BY PUNISHING ME!!) that hitstun is really REALLY nice against this skeleton.

Valentine: Same as before, just guess where she'll land her next hit. With all other rush-in characters i just keep my neutral as robo, and try to go ham on mixups/resets with eliza.

Ms fortune: Little to no experience against her. Who tf plays fortune in europe!!!!
Bella: A lot of experience against her, since i mainly battle @Ranger I expect a LOT of resets. For some reason, i play most patiently against her.

Did i miss anyone? I hope not.

Stuff i've learned:
HEAD DRONES ARE SO IMPORTANT.
Sekhmet is cool, but you shouldn't overuse her. I.E: I now use c.mp and sekhmet overhead as a mixup.
H beam is a nice lockdown, esp against cornered opponents. Get out sekhmet and they'll expect an overhead during their pressure, but then i just hit them low.

probably forgot about something again im so sorry i'll update it when i remind myself

 

[Sinclair]

I forgot the most vile asshole character ever:

Peacock:
Rush in peacocks r easy
zoning peacocks are hell
still dont know how to ight that cuk awful character i am filled with rage and must scream

 

[skull person]

I don't know how to get out of her napalm shot spam.

This?

 

[Sinclair]

YO BRO THANKS thats a REALLY helpful video

Wow, fleshskip is invincible to projectiles? did i see that good? @Skarmand

 

[skull person]

YO BRO THANKS thats a REALLY helpful video

Wow, fleshskip is invincible to projectiles? did i see that good? @Skarmand

Yes it does.
If you go into training mode and turn on Attack Data and set it to 'Advanced' you can see the frame data for projectile invincibility.

Here is Double's flesh step:

It's read from right to left. (This way <----------)
So it goes through 11 frames of startup before turning projectile invincible (orange).
The dark red means for those frames you cannot cancel it into a super.
The purple means that you ignore collision with characters for those frames so people are free to move through you and you can move through them.

Here is run into instant Kancho Fient which is also projectile invincible.

 

[Sinclair]

Wow, fleshskip is invincible to projectiles? did i see that good?

Yes it does.
If you go into training mode and turn on Attack Data and set it to 'Advanced' you can see the frame data for projectile invincibility.

Here is Double's flesh step:

It's read from right to left. (This way <----------)
So it goes through 11 frames of startup before turning projectile invincible (orange).
The dark red means for those frames you cannot cancel it into a super.
The purple means that you ignore collision with characters for those frames so people are free to move through you and you can move through them.

Here is run into instant Kancho Fient which is also projectile invincible.

Thank you so so much. i have always wondered what this meant.
I hope you don't mind me mentioning you sometimes if i ever need help again ;v;

 

[Sinclair]

I think i made some nice progress on my double! Her resets and everything are a LOT of fun!

Obv warmed up after i chose the black pallet.
@Ranger is a really good player, thank u lots for recording this!

Critique is appreciated

 

[Sinclair]

we do not speak about that lvl 3 at the end of the video

 

[skull person]

I hope you don't mind me mentioning you sometimes if i ever need help again ;v;

It's right in my sig!

 

[Smile]

My advise on going against Squigly Dance/ Vortex would be to try not to block everything. Most of the time, you would guess wrong and end up getting resetted over and over. Just block standing or crouching until you see the chance to push-block them away. Or, you can take the easy route of spamming your super.

 

[Sinclair]

My advise on going against Squigly Dance/ Vortex would be to try not to block everything. Most of the time, you would guess wrong and end up getting resetted over and over. Just block standing or crouching until you see the chance to push-block them away. Or, you can take the easy route of spamming your super.

Thank you! Played against @zeknife his squigly today..really hard but patience is OBV the key when you fight her.
I get panicky extremely fast and tend to press buttons/try to punish way too early. I guess i just /need/ to get that impatient behavior of mine out of my system.

Been playing against players from my level and up this month. I have noticed that my mixups are awful. Just..awful.

bad points:

• Bad mixups, people aren't spooked of me.
• No patience. slowly getting there tho!

Good stuff:

• Learned some resets with double, she's a lot of fun!
• Managed to learn a little more about Rfortune. But please for the love of god buff her hp move what the fuck is the point of having 1 hit of armor HER DEFENSE IS SO BAD IT MAKES ME sad

 

[Sinclair]

There is no way for me to get out of corner pressure with Rfortune.
Alright, maybe there is (Like PBGC and that stuff) but her defense sucks. I love playing her but i have no idea how to twist that little failure she is into something useful.

How do I pbgc correctly? I always fail doing it. I've watched the video about it but reacting to the hits is..so hard. ;(

I either keep neutral or i'm dead.

Things i do during corner pressure:
Chainsaw - Has a hit of armor, usually fails, sometimes it works out. It's really useless tho because...one hit of armor..and I have more luck pbgcing or whatever than doing that.
lp - so fast
Wait for a gap and use doubles hornet bomber - NOW HERE IM STUCK!!! When I play robo fortune, i am extremely comfortable with H bomber. It keeps my enemies at bay and even gives me time to deploy head drones. I can just keep zoning them!!
/BUT/ L bomber allows me to get out of corner pressure, since it has a few frames of invincibility. I've played a few players (who do not play r fortune) that use L bomber, and it always saves their butt.

I do not know what to use, either H hornet bomber for my play style, or L bomber to save myself from the horrible corner pressures.

 

[Lex]

Have you thought about picking up a third character (either one with a DP/armour or one to replace H bomber)?

 

[skull person]

Things i do during corner pressure:
Chainsaw - Has a hit of armor, usually fails, sometimes it works out. It's really useless tho because...one hit of armor..and I have more luck pbgcing or whatever than doing that.
lp - so fast
Wait for a gap and use doubles hornet bomber - NOW HERE IM STUCK!!! When I play robo fortune, i am extremely comfortable with H bomber. It keeps my enemies at bay and even gives me time to deploy head drones. I can just keep zoning them!!
/BUT/ L bomber allows me to get out of corner pressure, since it has a few frames of invincibility. I've played a few players (who do not play r fortune) that use L bomber, and it always saves their butt.

I do not know what to use, either H hornet bomber for my play style, or L bomber to save myself from the horrible corner pressures.

Everything in the corner usually gets you killed besides smart assist calls after you build a little bit of space with a pushblock.

I use L Bomber for this.

Robo-Fortune needs something to keep her opponents pressured from far away that goes well with beams (H Hornet) but she also needs something to peel opponents off her just for a moment so she can escape when they are close. (L Bomber)

Currently the recipe for the two notable zoning Robo-Fortune's is:
Robo-Fortune
+
Invincible Peel
(H Chair)
(L Hornet)
+
Long Ranged Zoning Assist
(H Shot)
(H Bypass)

You can also just get used to the idea that once you're in the corner blocking stuff, you need to prepare to die.

 

[Sinclair]

Have you thought about picking up a third character (either one with a DP/armour or one to replace H bomber)?

I play Double/Robo/Eliza

I like those three, but i dont think i'll drop anyone at the moment for someone else :(

 

[Sinclair]

I've had some really cool matches against @Dr. Oddwin

Here are some highlights after i've dropped Robo:

Fighting parasoul is the hardest thing ever, her constant mixups and the spacing is just hellish for me. I need to learn how to respect it.
Usually he just gets me at the start of the fight..what are some good openers for double? I usually super jump backwards but I know that I should stop doing that in case i'll ever fight Big Band (Also it seems ineffective against Parasoul because of her j.lp and stuff)

Robo Fortune: Currently dropping her. She's so useless. Bad defense, not so fun to play.

Eliza and Double will become my mains, they seem rather deadly together and a lot of fun!

Double Notes:

• You can bait napalm pillar and do luger to step back and not get hit. Its a nice punish.
• If you time fleshskip well with napalm shot, you can punish it. (Only from a certain range)
• Teacup is pretty cool
• Still haven't been using fast fall yet.
• Don't know any openers or good block strings for double.
• I still drop my combo's
• I dont know how to use L Hornet Bomber efficiently.

Eliza Notes:

• She's a lot of fun, but i feel like i'm not playing her well. I haven't really been able to show my playstyle with her in these match video's, but i really do enjoy using resets with her in the corner using sekhmet.
• Use Sekhmet more when i HAVE to use her!!!!
• Use more Horus. heck, i should make full use of what she has in her arsenal.
• I now use MP as an anti air! It's super nice. I just need to get used to when I'll have to use it.

General Notes:

• Still don't know how to pbgc well
• Should start respecting spacing and reversals (like napalm pillar)
• Do less resets as double..I need to just finish off my opponent when I can.
• Learn how to tag to another character when i need to heal my other one, instead of just playing her until she gets killed.
• Improve my mixups with both Double and Eliza
• Spend more time in training mode with Eliza.
• Teach myself some burst baits!!!

I've been told that picking up painwheel can be pretty cool for this team, but as much as i'd like to; she's a mess to get into and im not breaking my thumbs for it. :(

Characters im considering picking up: Fukua, Parasoul,

Fukua:

• She's really easy to get into, i just need to play her more and learn some resets. I already use HP and c.mp as an anti air.
• H Drill is invincible and can made be safe on block with an assist like Osiris spiral (?)
• Bunch of other cool stuff, she seems pretty OP when played right.

Parasoul:

• I have tried to pick her up but doing the egret call cancel is still very hard for me, i dont really know what to do after it :((
• She's a lot of fun! I love the range i get with her. I just have to get used to it. I always stand wayyy too close to my opponents when i play her.
• I think i just have to play her more.

 

[Lex]

Round starts for Double are normally either Luger, (cr.)HP or dash, cr.LK. If you have a horizontal assist then those become much stronger as well (H Luger + horizontal assist basically forces your opponent to either jump back or block). Also, super jump back is always a nice, safe opener and it's good vs BB as well (sure, he CAN catch it with A-train, but BB has to guess and if they're wrong you can get a HCH punish and even if they're right all they get is some damage and knockdown).

If you manage to get your opponent to block j.HK in the air in the corner (e.g. on incoming) then you can do a bunch of j.HP/HKs.

To tag from Double to Eliza you can do HK, tag or monster, backslash, tag. Don't know how you would tag from Eliza to Double though, maybe knockdown into tag might be safe but it's probably negative. You're probably just better off DHCing to Double.

I don't think Osiris spiral would make H drill safe due to its poor range, butcher's blade might (it might be weak to PBGC though). It's also only hit invincible, grabs will catch it.

 

[Sinclair]

Hey guys, long time ago. I kinda dropped the game for a while when it came to...trying to get better. I've been playing a lot against my friend beppe and drugdealerspider (for some reason, tagging isn't working at the moment).
I've learned a lot, esp when it came to double and eliza, have been playing a lot more robofortune lately, but she still bores me.

Recently picked valentine up again...so @Lex you can come back and help me again :p
As for that, playing against the same two people for too long can kind of have a disadvantage. So i'm wondering, who else here is up for games? Pref a person who is really good at punishing, i have a bad tendency of doing (too many )air dashes as valentine. I started doing dead cross waaaaay more and i've become more of a neutral valentine over the weeks. This is better for me since i got robofortunes H beam assist to keep them away.

Anyway, i've been playing a lot and have been figuring stuff out with the game, recently picked up squiggly and learned how to do charge cancels. Fun and all, but the real character i would like to pick up so hard for me. i have no idea how to play parasoul the right way. I can't get a hold of her egret cancels and just moving around with her is really frustrating (but i assume its because im not used to her, since i play a lot of air dash characters)

Another thing that i just NEVER can get the hang of is precise air dashing with valentine, im always too late or too early when it comes to her overheads. Been watching a lot of gllts videos and it has been helping a lot ;v;

Another question is, i found this crossunder, i wonder what i can do with it (and does it actually work or is it too slow?)

thank you for reading, sorry that i wrote this really weird and everything